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Robert99 50
QuoteRobert 99 notes in part:
Quote'Why would Cooper pick that specific flight? I believe that others on this thread have stated that NWA had only started the Portland stop on some flights from Minneapolis to Seattle about a month earlier...'
Well, if this were true, it could mean someone familiar with the day to day operations of the airline may have been involved. Just a guess, of course.
In the early 1970s, the airlines put out a publication periodically that listed all the airline flights in the USA, the cities that specific flights served, the times of arrival and/or departure from each specific city, the type of aircraft used on that route, the days the flights operated, etc..
So Cooper would not need to know anything about the day to day operations of a given airline or, for that matter, anything at all about the airline itself.
All Cooper would need to do is stop by a library, travel agent, an inter-city airline ticket office, or any other location that had a copy of that publication, and take a brief look at it. He could get all the information he needed in about two minutes of looking.
The NWA flight was already airborne and just a few hundred miles from Portland when Cooper asked the ticket agent if it was actually a 727. The ticket agent would have known by that time if some other aircraft had been substituted for a 727. And the agent confirmed that it was a 727.
Robert Nicholson
Farflung 0
Another word is trying to insert itself into the Cooper dialog in the guise of Cooper being local to Seattle. As much as they are hated, despised and scorned; I tried a few case studies to use as a bench mark.
Robb Heady was from Reno, hijacked a plane in Reno and jumped a few miles south of Reno. I would say he had the earmarks of someone being local to Reno. At least he was trying to jump in an area close to home.
Richard McCoy was from Utah and had a plane land at SFO before jumping in Utah then walking/hitching home from there.
Martin McNally hijacked a plane out of Oklahoma City, waited for money in St Louis then had the crew fly some wild ass route before jumping over Peru, IN then walking/hitching home (Detroit) from there.
Richard LaPoint hijacked a plane out of Las Vegas and jumped over Akron, CO presumably with the intent of walking/hitching home to Denver. He was captured shortly after his jump.
Here are four examples of hijackers that jumped in areas closer (relative) to their homes since they didn’t appear to have a plan to just walk to a motel and throw down some green posing as a transient worker (too complex) and recover from the jump and get their bearings.
Now Cooper hijacked a plane destined for Seattle, demanded some stupefying destination to the south and jumped near Portland……. Therefore he must be from Seattle??? This appears to be a ‘Power of Will’ over observable data in play here.
Robb Heady was from Reno, hijacked a plane in Reno and jumped a few miles south of Reno. I would say he had the earmarks of someone being local to Reno. At least he was trying to jump in an area close to home.
Richard McCoy was from Utah and had a plane land at SFO before jumping in Utah then walking/hitching home from there.
Martin McNally hijacked a plane out of Oklahoma City, waited for money in St Louis then had the crew fly some wild ass route before jumping over Peru, IN then walking/hitching home (Detroit) from there.
Richard LaPoint hijacked a plane out of Las Vegas and jumped over Akron, CO presumably with the intent of walking/hitching home to Denver. He was captured shortly after his jump.
Here are four examples of hijackers that jumped in areas closer (relative) to their homes since they didn’t appear to have a plan to just walk to a motel and throw down some green posing as a transient worker (too complex) and recover from the jump and get their bearings.
Now Cooper hijacked a plane destined for Seattle, demanded some stupefying destination to the south and jumped near Portland……. Therefore he must be from Seattle??? This appears to be a ‘Power of Will’ over observable data in play here.
Blevins is at least controlling his URGE to promote the book, but still promotes the Subject. That is fine, but he may have missed this post:
Quote
I really question that line of thinking - it just sounds like something right out of a gangster movie.
Desperate people do desperate things...perhaps an interview that did not go well or maybe he was in the NW to just connect with the only Happy and Free time he could actually remember in his adult life. He felt there was NOTHING left for him, but to go back to prison. He thought he would be apprehended and then sent to prison. It failed and so he had to JUMP. I do NOT believe this was a WELL thought out plan.
After spending most of his adult life in prison - he is desperate and felt his life was already over.
He had found he had a disease that would require his being in ONE place and with no income maintain life substaining treatment. He had NO choice other than to get himself back into the prison system or kill himself (he wasn't sure how to do that - but, when the authorities came forth with his demands he had to make a decision - life or death)!
This is why he was child like when the money arrived - he expected the authorities to storm the plane and arrest or kill him. He was giddy with delight and made the choice to go with it.
Maybe he was counting on someone seeing him that he knew. Also the last flight and the lowest attendance may have been his ONLY reason if there was any kind of logical reason.
It also may be that this was the only 727 going into Seattle at the desired time.
NOTE THIS: He let Tina go out to get the chutes and the money - how did he know they would not send someone else back with the money? Yes, the passengers where still sitting in the forward cabin - and if Cooper actually was in the bathroom it would have been during this time.
Maybe he expected the Authorities to charge him at this time instead of Tina coming back with the money....at least by being in the bathroom he could walk out with is hands-up and he would have accomplished his goal. Life long treatment and in a place he had spent the happiest days of his life and perhaps where his only child was living at the time...a child who would have been in her early 20's.
Even Georger stated this after analyzing the data:QuoteDespite all this, Cooper went ahead with the hi-jacking. To me this suggests that Cooper was desperate and, for one reason or another, the hi-jacking had to be done that day.
QuoteSo basically Cooper rolled the dice and lost.
But this is where Georger is wrong. Cooper actually won. Exactly what Cooper experienced that night and the following days and yrs - other can only imagine.
I know Cooper survived and the survival of that jump forever changed the course of his life.
He took only a small amount of the cash with him when he left - leaving the rest in WASHINGTON and OREGON.
He started to change his life - and it was a gradual process taking several yrs. He was ALWAYS looking over his shoulder - his eyes would dart all about a room as if to see if the "enemy" was there lurking in the corner. This habit of his was annoying to me - and his only explanation was "Just looking around to see if there is anyone I know here". He was always on guard. He like to work with only one contact with the client - why he ALWAY had someone one else deliver the policy or mail it.
He did NOT like second contacts.
You are right - Georger. The jump had to be done that day. November 24 was an important day to him as was the next day -Thanksgiving. He never forgot this.
According to one writer Cooper pick that flight because he had to? He thinks the Mafia was involved and this guy owed them money. Also suggested the Mafia might be holding a hostage.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteGeorger says in part:
Quote'He picked a 'milk run' 30 minute commuter flight (short distance) and the last flight of the day, after the preholiday traffic had already passed; likely to have the lowest attendance. (last minute businessmen and a few holiday straglers). He judged the attendance correctly...'
And how could Cooper possibly guess that this flight would have such low attendance? It was still the day before Thanksgiving. There could have been many other passengers coming into Portland from other destinations, who were on their way to Seattle. He may have just gotten lucky on that one.
The idea of Seafirst being closed for Thanksgiving Day is really a non-factor. They would be open on Friday, and most branches were even open Saturdays until 1PM.
None of the ransom money would be delivered or obtained by utilizing a branch manager anyway. This could only be authorized by someone at the top of the food chain at Seafirst, in coop with Donald Nyrop. It is almost certain the Seattle police, the FBI, or both, had the important phone numbers handy to contact the right people. They would have this information for any number of reasons. Fires, natural disasters, etc.
If NWA was using Seafirst as their corporate bank, then they would have the contact numbers of the important people. I don't think there's much doubt on this one. It wouldn't matter whether the banks were closed or not. Seafirst did not make a habit of closing early before a holiday anyway. They were just closed on the holiday itself. For example, they were open on the Friday after Thanksgiving, and most branches were open until 1PM on Saturday.
If it's true that NWA only added the Portland stop three months before the hijacking, this makes it possible the hijacker was familiar with the operation of the airline to a degree. This is not certain, but only a guess.
I believe that Cooper was definitely from the Seattle area. There are many hints about it, and most of you reading this are familiar with those. His comments about Tacoma, etc. That's one. But I think one that's been overlooked is a sort of backwards hint:
If Cooper were from the Seattle area, WHY didn't he pick a flight going between Seattle and Portland? Two reasons come to mind. If he worked for the airline out of Seattle, he could have been recognized by another employee, especially on an outbound flight out of Seattle. Two, maybe he understood that the money was more readily available to NWA in Seattle because they had corporate offices there, and a large payroll. There was some planning in this, and some of it looks like it came from a guy who knew a lot about NWA but hadn't used a chute in a long time.
Another more obvious reason is because he had already planned to jump between Seattle and Portland, i.e. no matter what he was telling the crew about flying to Mexico City or Reno or whatever, he had absolutely no intention of remaining on board long, once he got his money.
First, with all due respect to Portland, I doubt if that city could have been considered to be a major hub in 1971. Most people headed to Seattle would probably have taken a direct and non-stop flight from their point of origin if such were available.
In the 1970 time frame, the airlines gave huge discounts to travelers, such as grandma and grandpa, but those discounts did not apply on holidays or during the holiday period. So strictly holiday travelers with discounted tickets would have already been in Seattle prior to Thanksgiving eve. The people who boarded in Portland paid the appropriate full fare.
The bank in Seattle reportedly did have a large amount of money set aside, serial numbers recorded, and bundled in a random fashion, specifically for ransom or hi-jacking type situations. But where was this money kept? Was it in a vault with a time lock? Or did the janitor keep it in the broom closet?
Before Cooper handed the note to Flo, he had seen the other people boarding in Portland as well as getting a look at those who were already on board and going to Seattle. Consequently, he knew that they were not someone that he had seen before. That meant that he could go ahead with the hi-jacking.
Also, anyone in Portland who just wanted to get to Seattle for Thanksgiving could have probably driven to any area of Seattle in less than three hours. And they could have done it at their convenience, maybe even on Thanksgiving morning.
Robert Nicholson
QuoteWell, one thing Cooper did that hinted he MIGHT be from the Seattle area is making his little observation about Tacoma and his comment about the Air Force base.
It's hard for me to imagine someone planning to jump the plane at night over the Cascades without some familiarity with what was waiting on the ground. He was very calm during most of the hijacking, according to Mucklow, except when they kept delaying him with the refueling tactic. Almost as if he knew what he was getting into, and had planned it out reasonably well.
If some of the planning seemed a bit amateur, maybe it was. I think it points to someone who may have been desperate, but wasn't a career criminal.
These are strictly guesses, and admittedly, not based on a lot of hard evidence. But then, there isn't a lot of hard evidence in this case.
I still believe an accomplice was involved. One question you could ask:
HOW did Cooper arrive at the Portland airport? Unless he lived in Portland, he would have to fly in, drive, or take a bus or train. And yet...no one ever stepped forward to say they saw him on any of those venues. If he had abandoned a car at or near the airport, it's pretty likely the FBI would have discovered it...and then pretty soon Cooper as well.
One explanation might be that someone drove him to the airport. The idea that Cooper might have had somebody on the ground makes sense, although it has not been proven absolutely.
You are aware of the night clerk and his opinion there was someone with John Collins?
You are aware that Duane Weber spent considerable time in the N.W.
You are aware that when Duane Weber took me to WA in 1979 he had only an Osha Map that showed 1/2 of the US. NOT a quarter, but one / half. Definitely not a detailed map.
You are aware that we had an old atlas in the car - and that we did NOT have a state map other than the page in the Atlas.
You are aware that Duane used NO maps while in WA or OR...and he knew the back roads and the highways and the land mark and on and on and on.
You are aware the only time that Duane asked me to look at the map was as we were approaching Nevada - he couldn't remember the name of the town before the interstate. Now I would have to look at the map to tell you what it was.
The company did give us a Seattle map while we were there - I was the only one who looked at it when we were to attend a banquet in another part of town. He said no need because he knew where he was going....this is when HE TOOK ME TO THE BACK SIDE OF THE AIRPORT. I had located our destination on the map and told him - this is not a short cut - this is actually out of the way.
You don't argue with someone who is usually right and what was the point - we were already out of the way.
P.S. Remember all of the out of the way places he took me without a map - country roads and small towns. Then when we headed up the Interstate to Seattle he points out power lines and pipe line you could not see from the highway that ran parallel and intersected. He points out what you call Paradise I island, but didn't give it a name - except a place the guy hung-out. He tells me about St Helen, Or and knowing a woman there who had a shop. He points out to me all of the cemeteries and gravel pits.
Wonder if your suspect knew where all of these things where?
Also as we go on up he points out a couple of small towns off the interstate, but above the Lewis River the tells me about a place the guys used to eat and then tells me there is not anything, but wood for the next XX miles.
Around Tacoma he points out McChord and some property off to the Right (EAST) that his brother and a partner had owned.
He made the comment the investment was made at the wrong time. He tells me about Mc Neil but didn't refer to it as a prison. He tell me about an island and Fort Lewis.
NO map - he knew this area and he knew it well. On one of our free afternoons he took me North of Seattle - he knew ALL of that WITHOUT a map.
So HOW would you explain that.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteRobert 99 asks:
Quote'The bank in Seattle reportedly did have a large amount of money set aside, serial numbers recorded, and bundled in a random fashion, specifically for ransom or hi-jacking type situations. But where was this money kept? Was it in a vault with a time lock?'
I am not sure, but at the time Cooper made his demands, the banks were still open. Seafirst usually closed at 6PM, most branches. It's one of the reasons why a lot of people banked with them, that is, they kept long hours for a bank. I think they stored this fund at their main Seattle branch downtown, or wherever the corporate offices were located in Seattle. Probably main branch.
I'm not sure how it worked at the main Seattle, but at a lot of Seafirst banks, the vault thing worked like this: The manager has a key to a door that looked like a jail cell door, i.e. bars, etc. You opened that, and then there was one, sometimes two safes in the room beyond the door. These safes were opened by combination, usually. Or a key, or maybe both, but not generally on a time lock. This is one reason why Seafirst used to get held up so much for so much money. Both Scott Scurlock and the guys who hit Seafirst for 4.4 mil took advantage of this.
As I understand it, you are saying that Cooper was probably from the Seattle area and probably had an accomplice. If so, I agree with you on both counts.
But are you also suggesting that Cooper was a SeaFirst Bank customer?
Robert Nicholson
Quote
In some ways, I think Weber might be a viable suspect. But even though *another* suspect has been offered, using witness testimony and documentary and circumstantial evidence, this particular suspect's supporters don't say 'I know he did it...and there's no doubt about it.'
You offer even less here and that's a problem. Some other people need to step forward. Something like hijacking a flight for 200G's and becoming the most wanted man in America is hard to keep secret from EVERYBODY. Somebody other than you probably knows if Duane was involved. Or they hold small bits of the puzzle. Where are these people, and why aren't you encouraging them to offer up what they know?
It may not sound like it, but I'm actually trying to help you here. I don't know if Duane was the guy, but I support him as a suspect a bit more than William Gossett. You just need some corroboration somehow. Physical stuff, documents, witnesses other than you.
My mistake in all of this was calling the FBI in the first place.
But I didn't have excess funds to quit my job and go out West to interview individuals. I left it up to the FBI. I did ask that they LET me go see the EX and with a wire on - and for me to see what she said. THey didn't even make a reply on that and plunged right in "their" way and that terrified her and the daughter. It was several months before I could get the ex to talk to me and her daughter.
How am I suppose to approach a man in a near by place who I was told was dangerous? Obviously the FBI didn't even bother to check him out or talk to him. He is now deceased - as the properties are NO longer in his name and there is no listing for him.
How was I supposed to find Tony Wong and ask him about Duane? When I did find his widow he was also deceased.
How was I supposed to go to Chicago and interview a man who was reported to be Mafia and dangerous?
How was I supposed to check the Bobby Kennedy pictures looking for that tie clip - the authorities took the pictures down and closed the archives as soon as I let it be known what I was after.
I believe it will be another 25 yr now before they can be viewed - why?
How am I supposed to access private files on Paperlegs Petersen to see if he really did know Duane? How am I supposed to access files on goverment operations?
How am I supposed to find 2 men who knew Duane from the times although young and find out how much they remember.
I did talk to his brother and his sister, but the sister did NOT want to tell me what she knew and she knew a lot. The family had severed ties with Duane because of his past and the sister was the only one who knew the truth, but she was too afraid as she put it - "What will my friends think" and then adds "Please don't do this it will destroy me".
I long ago buried the social "thing" but there are still those who cling closely to it. Just my going public stigmatized my position in the real estate (so going public does hurt).
You approached these people yourself - but, would they have talked to the FBI in 1996 when the family of Duane was approached? Agents who did NOT even know anything about Cooper and who did not even talk to me to be sure the information they were working with was accurate as my phone conversation in 2000 would prove was not accurate.
These AGENTs went out to see individuals without even knowing the details they needed to know about Weber or Cooper. The FBI dropped the damn ball. I called Seattle, they send a local agent, the local agent makes note and take copies of things, they are sent to Seattle and then a receiving agent (obviously NOT the agent of record) assigns agents in CA to see the ex. and her daughter. What information did they approach her with and how? Was it accurate? WAS she assured that if she provide them information she would NOT be prosecuted just because she knew after the FACT or suspected he was Cooper?
She had been told if he spent any of the money on her she could be prosecuted...(this was her own words to me), but she was drunk and she did NOT specifically say it was Cooper money. She actually said this to me. Remember she actually tried to commit suicide in 1972 and then divorced him in May of that same yr. Her 12 yr old child was with her till the ambulance came. She had supposedly been separated from Weber since the 1st of Nov. 1971 and that he asked her to come back in February of 1972 - this story did NOT jive with other things she told me and Duane told me.
Duane spoke about New Yrs in New York and then when I asked her about this she also told me about it. Claimed she couldn't remember what yr. Duane had told me to it was New Yrs 1972, but back then I did NOT know it meant anything.
At least I will say this - I wasn't out there publicizing what I did know to do a story - I was trying to find out who I had been married to for 17 yrs...and who told me he was Dan Cooooper 11 days before he died. A man whose background substanciates he was a criminal.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
The Skyjacker may or may not have known details about SeaFirst and I do not see what difference that makes. A do or die thing does NOT hinge on this information being available.
Just because a hard worker has amassed a decent retirement for himself thru good investments does NOT make him a skyjacker, but a smart investor and let me assure you there are many people who died leaving a lot of money to others. Like Christainsen they were frugal and did not live high on the hog.
In today's society one tends to look at 20 K return as nothing. Let me assure you that during the yrs Christiansen lived and worked and played - the estate he amassed was very very possible....and it was NOT difficult.
What you file taxes on and what you actually took in can be substancial if you were in sales and this goes for other businesses also...such as real estate and insurance sales and if you did a little flea marketing on the side.
A flea market trip to another state was a free vacation. You got to write off all your expenses as business...but you had a vacation and a good time doing it.
To present another suspect using witness testimony not given to the FBI under oath is not offering another suspect. A writer investigated the suspect - not the FBI. The documentation provide is taken out of context and is not circumstancial evidence nor are the statements made by those he interviewed.
Blevins you made a serious misnomer with this statement and I take you to task on it
"Something like hijacking a flight for 200G's and becoming the most wanted man in America is hard to keep secret from EVERYBODY".
I will simply reply with Just how in the Hell else do you get away with such a crime. There was only one other person beside Weber who knew the truth - his accomplice if there was indeed one. The only other way is a "covert action or any other kind of secret operation". You know how that works? You talk and then you die!
Yea, you are right somebody other than me did know the truth - and that person was scared to death by the FBI showin up even though they called to make an appointment.
As for there being a small bit of the puzzle - you are damn right, but the FBI nor any authority has ever contacted me to find out what it was or is. I found out yrs ago - going to the FBI is a NO WIN situations. They have NO clue how to solve old crimes that are not connected to their computer world and their system is so fragmented they cannot connect the dots from state to state and agent to agent.
How am I supposed to get the dead to a talk? The FBI scared them to death rather than offer them immunity for what they had to say. If you are going to talk to an old woman about a very old crime she might have had knowledge of - you have to know how and have the authority to talk to that person in a productive way. All those FBI agents did was drive their only 2 sources in to silence...and one died an untimely death. If I were a gambling woman I might say the FBI or whoever might have had something to do with that one. She had led a hard life, but she was still a relative young woman....accidental over-dose? How convenient!
Needless to say - after 15 yrs I am bitter about how the FBI has handled this and I am justified in stating this.
Just because a hard worker has amassed a decent retirement for himself thru good investments does NOT make him a skyjacker, but a smart investor and let me assure you there are many people who died leaving a lot of money to others. Like Christainsen they were frugal and did not live high on the hog.
In today's society one tends to look at 20 K return as nothing. Let me assure you that during the yrs Christiansen lived and worked and played - the estate he amassed was very very possible....and it was NOT difficult.
What you file taxes on and what you actually took in can be substancial if you were in sales and this goes for other businesses also...such as real estate and insurance sales and if you did a little flea marketing on the side.
A flea market trip to another state was a free vacation. You got to write off all your expenses as business...but you had a vacation and a good time doing it.
To present another suspect using witness testimony not given to the FBI under oath is not offering another suspect. A writer investigated the suspect - not the FBI. The documentation provide is taken out of context and is not circumstancial evidence nor are the statements made by those he interviewed.
Blevins you made a serious misnomer with this statement and I take you to task on it
"Something like hijacking a flight for 200G's and becoming the most wanted man in America is hard to keep secret from EVERYBODY".
I will simply reply with Just how in the Hell else do you get away with such a crime. There was only one other person beside Weber who knew the truth - his accomplice if there was indeed one. The only other way is a "covert action or any other kind of secret operation". You know how that works? You talk and then you die!
Yea, you are right somebody other than me did know the truth - and that person was scared to death by the FBI showin up even though they called to make an appointment.
As for there being a small bit of the puzzle - you are damn right, but the FBI nor any authority has ever contacted me to find out what it was or is. I found out yrs ago - going to the FBI is a NO WIN situations. They have NO clue how to solve old crimes that are not connected to their computer world and their system is so fragmented they cannot connect the dots from state to state and agent to agent.
How am I supposed to get the dead to a talk? The FBI scared them to death rather than offer them immunity for what they had to say. If you are going to talk to an old woman about a very old crime she might have had knowledge of - you have to know how and have the authority to talk to that person in a productive way. All those FBI agents did was drive their only 2 sources in to silence...and one died an untimely death. If I were a gambling woman I might say the FBI or whoever might have had something to do with that one. She had led a hard life, but she was still a relative young woman....accidental over-dose? How convenient!
Needless to say - after 15 yrs I am bitter about how the FBI has handled this and I am justified in stating this.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
http://www.unsolvedrealm.com/2011/01/26/d-b-cooper-update-kenneth-christiansen-not-a-suspect/
This site is current - first came up Jan, 26, 2011.
The above site just came to my attention. It BLASTED Blevins and guess what - Ckret posted there along with a man by the name of George (sounds like our Georger), and a Bruce who sounds alot like our Bruce.
Very VERY interesting what Ckret had to say. Except I thought he was OFF the case and in another area...but this man uses Ckret and talks like he is still FBI and still in WA. He even tells how the FBI handles Christiansen & Prorteous and I supposed me although I am not named.
Now we know the rest of the story and it means THE FBI is still playing games.
The title of the article is d-b-cooper-update-kenneth-christisen-no-a-suspect.
That is exactly what I said to Blevins earlier. Strange this site just POPPED-UP and there is CKRET?
This site is current - first came up Jan, 26, 2011.
The above site just came to my attention. It BLASTED Blevins and guess what - Ckret posted there along with a man by the name of George (sounds like our Georger), and a Bruce who sounds alot like our Bruce.
Very VERY interesting what Ckret had to say. Except I thought he was OFF the case and in another area...but this man uses Ckret and talks like he is still FBI and still in WA. He even tells how the FBI handles Christiansen & Prorteous and I supposed me although I am not named.
Now we know the rest of the story and it means THE FBI is still playing games.
The title of the article is d-b-cooper-update-kenneth-christisen-no-a-suspect.
That is exactly what I said to Blevins earlier. Strange this site just POPPED-UP and there is CKRET?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
$
(Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair
complexion? We also have a letter from him to his
mother talking about getting as tan as a potato
chip. Witnesses interviewed said the same thing
about Ken. He spent a lot of time on the beach
during layovers.
_____________________________________________
Response: The witnesses said "olive skinned", not
tanned. You can keep your potatoe chip proof!
Olive skin is very suggestive of haplotype. KC's
genetic inheritance probably derrives from one of
the low variation groups endemic to his regional
inheritance which does not really favor olive
skinned as a genetic trait.
Tanned and olive skinned may even be mutually
exclusive in this case, as both a witness description
and a genetic reality separating Cooper from KC.
Olive skin is a rather powerful determiner if true
as compared with Kenny's inheritance group (which
is notoriously narrow in its sub class mutational
variations). I would be very happy to supply you with
references if you like since you previously claimed to
be an expert in genetics.
_______________________________________________
$
Then there are a few mentions about Kenny not
quite fitting the general description. Skipp Porteous
and I believe that the sketch is not bad, but that
eyewitness descriptions are NOTORIOUSLY
unreliable. This is why police line-ups work better at
catching criminals. Unfortunately, no one has been
presented in a line up for Cooper. And there has
been a lot of argument about the sketch over the
years.
________________________________________________
Response: Your citation above only applies as a
rule where witnesses have had little time and
opportunity to see a person clearly.
Both composites A and B fall into the same general
facial-cranial class. This indicates both sets of
witness interviews including the different sets of
witnesses used all settled on common basic features.
There has never been any serious arguement at all
about the basic features witnesses agreed to. The
source of arguement has always been from
outsiders like you - who dont know what they are
talking about and have a cause to pitch.
This was not some midnight quickie holdup where
the lights went out and people were rushed. The
witnesses had hours to "witness" the person, both
physically and behaviorally. Those witnesses who
have been shown photos of KC have all been
unanimous and said: "That's not the guy.
All of the time these witnesses spent with Cooper
was tantamount to hours of "lineups" ! How many
lineups do you require ?
_____________________________________________
$
Hello...if the Bureau had actually ruled Kenny out,
they would not be doing this right now.
_____________________________________________
Response: Hello! Anyone in there?
It does not follow that because"The Bureau", as you
put it, is taking a look at Kenny again." they are
doing so for investigative reasons. There could be
50 others reasons having nothing to do with
investigation.
Quote'Christiansen had a white complexion, the
hijacker was brown or olive complected...'
(Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair
complexion? We also have a letter from him to his
mother talking about getting as tan as a potato
chip. Witnesses interviewed said the same thing
about Ken. He spent a lot of time on the beach
during layovers.
_____________________________________________
Response: The witnesses said "olive skinned", not
tanned. You can keep your potatoe chip proof!
Olive skin is very suggestive of haplotype. KC's
genetic inheritance probably derrives from one of
the low variation groups endemic to his regional
inheritance which does not really favor olive
skinned as a genetic trait.
Tanned and olive skinned may even be mutually
exclusive in this case, as both a witness description
and a genetic reality separating Cooper from KC.
Olive skin is a rather powerful determiner if true
as compared with Kenny's inheritance group (which
is notoriously narrow in its sub class mutational
variations). I would be very happy to supply you with
references if you like since you previously claimed to
be an expert in genetics.
_______________________________________________
$
Then there are a few mentions about Kenny not
quite fitting the general description. Skipp Porteous
and I believe that the sketch is not bad, but that
eyewitness descriptions are NOTORIOUSLY
unreliable. This is why police line-ups work better at
catching criminals. Unfortunately, no one has been
presented in a line up for Cooper. And there has
been a lot of argument about the sketch over the
years.
________________________________________________
Response: Your citation above only applies as a
rule where witnesses have had little time and
opportunity to see a person clearly.
Both composites A and B fall into the same general
facial-cranial class. This indicates both sets of
witness interviews including the different sets of
witnesses used all settled on common basic features.
There has never been any serious arguement at all
about the basic features witnesses agreed to. The
source of arguement has always been from
outsiders like you - who dont know what they are
talking about and have a cause to pitch.
This was not some midnight quickie holdup where
the lights went out and people were rushed. The
witnesses had hours to "witness" the person, both
physically and behaviorally. Those witnesses who
have been shown photos of KC have all been
unanimous and said: "That's not the guy.
All of the time these witnesses spent with Cooper
was tantamount to hours of "lineups" ! How many
lineups do you require ?
_____________________________________________
$
Hello...if the Bureau had actually ruled Kenny out,
they would not be doing this right now.
_____________________________________________
Response: Hello! Anyone in there?
It does not follow that because"The Bureau", as you
put it, is taking a look at Kenny again." they are
doing so for investigative reasons. There could be
50 others reasons having nothing to do with
investigation.
georger 244
QuoteQuote$
Quote'Christiansen had a white complexion, the
hijacker was brown or olive complected...'
(Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair
complexion?
You keep posting BW photos and asking about skin
tones and tanning etc. WTF is the matter with you!?
Are you fucking blind, stupid, or what? *LAUGHS*
You cant tell anything from a black and white photo, Blevins.
georger 244
You still think Ckret actually made that comment? You've shown your colors. Now you have to qualify yourself for real or I may start considering you a clone of Bob Knoss. I saw through that comment in five seconds. Why didn't you?
reply]
WTF... get therapy.
How in hell am I supposed to know who posted to
that website. ? If it was Ckret or not ? And even if
I did know what difference would it make? I dont
control other people including you!
Good night.
reply]
WTF... get therapy.
How in hell am I supposed to know who posted to
that website. ? If it was Ckret or not ? And even if
I did know what difference would it make? I dont
control other people including you!
Good night.
georger 244
QuoteQuoteYou still think Ckret actually made that comment? You've shown your colors. Now you have to qualify yourself for real or I may start considering you a clone of Bob Knoss. I saw through that comment in five seconds. Why didn't you?
reply]
WTF... get therapy.
I only quoted you. If you are going to say things, expect to be called on them. Maybe you need a reminder on this from the American Standard Version, Matthew chapter 15, verse 11:Quote'It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person...'
If you don't like being quoted, then perhaps you should consider your quotes more carefully. If you are going to put yourself forward on the Cooper case, you might want to become more objective and less personal. You'll get better results and people will take you more seriously.
Let me get this straight.
Are you saying the post attributed to Ckret
on this website below, was me! ? http://www.unsolvedrealm.com/...ansen-not-a-suspect/
It isn't and was not my post.
It isn't even language I would use. Moreover, the
post contains information I have no knowledge of
one way or the other, especially at the time whoever
posted that post was posting. It sounds like
somebody who knows you? This was clear back in
May of 2011. The post starts out something about
'The Christiansen people ...' whoever that is. It also
mentions Mr. Porteous who I don't know from Adam.
I would never say something about someone I knew
nothing about firsthand.
It wasn't my post so you can calm yourself about
that.
Get a life, Blevins.
georger 244
QuoteNo.
I said what is shown below.QuoteQuotehttp://www.unsolvedrealm.com/2011/01/26/d-b-cooper-update-kenneth-christiansen-not-a-suspect/
This site is current - first came up Jan, 26, 2011.
The above site just came to my attention. It BLASTED Blevins and guess what - Ckret posted there along with a man by the name of George (sounds like our Georger), and a Bruce who sounds alot like our Bruce.
Very VERY interesting what Ckret had to say. Except I thought he was OFF the case and in another area...but this man uses Ckret and talks like he is still FBI and still in WA. He even tells how the FBI handles Christiansen & Prorteous and I supposed me although I am not named.
Now we know the rest of the story and it means THE FBI is still playing games.
The title of the article is d-b-cooper-update-kenneth-christisen-no-a-suspect.
That is exactly what I said to Blevins earlier. Strange this site just POPPED-UP and there is CKRET?
Robert says: I went to this article. Same old tired arguments against Christiansen that we've seen before. And some of them are wrong.
Some quotes from the article: (paraphrased)Quote'Christiansen had a white complexion, the hijacker was brown or olive complected...'
(Picture attached) Does he look like he has a fair complexion? We also have a letter from him to his mother talking about getting as tan as a potato chip. Witnesses interviewed said the same thing about Ken. He spent a lot of time on the beach during layovers.Quote'None of the money was found in circulation...'
That's because, according to the US Treasury Department, and Cket...quoting his 2008 radio interview linked at Wiki...that the banks gave up checking against the list within six months at most, and the Treasury Department wasn't looking at all. (which by the way I consider a BIG mistake in the original investigation) The Bureau was letting the banks handle all the search against the numbers list, and bank tellers were overwhelmed. That's why the banks gave it up so quickly. YOU try working in a bank and checking every single incoming twenty against a list of 10,000 non-sequential numbers. Can you say MOTRIN?
Then there are a few mentions about Kenny not quite fitting the general description. Skipp Porteous and I believe that the sketch is not bad, but that eyewitness descriptions are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. This is why police line-ups work better at catching criminals. Unfortunately, no one has been presented in a line up for Cooper. And there has been a lot of argument about the sketch over the years.
The Picture: The writer of the article says the picture was taken in March 1972.
Duh. There is a Christmas wreath on the door. The picture was DEVELOPED in February 1972, according to the time stamp on the front by the developer. So the writer didn't get that right.Quote'FBI Rejects Latest Suspect...'
The writer of the article quotes another article from 2007. Again...DUH. Christiansen wasn't seriously investigated for another three years, nor were any of his friends and associates interviewed. Oh yeah, and the book was a few years away as well.
Let's deal in today, shall we, instead of 2007. Here is what is happening TODAY: The FBI requested Christiansen's DNA in early June. Last week, they wanted two copies of the Revised Edition of Blast. I also sent them another info packet on the true names and addresses of the witnesses. There you are, I am telling the Seattle office. We did our work, now it's time to do yours.
Hello...if the Bureau had actually ruled Kenny out, they would not be doing this right now.
Hard Truths for you and me: The Bureau is taking a look at Kenny again. Maybe he was Cooper, maybe not. But they ARE checking him out again.
Look, I have more on the line here than anyone else who posts up stuff on KC. And I'm willing to accept whatever the FBI says one way or another on Ken Christiansen. If they come forward later and offer definitive proof that Ken was not the hijacker, I will accept it gracefully and pull the book. I have stated this repeatedly. The only thing I will still be proud of is that we were able to help either confirm him as Cooper...or finally, without-a-doubt...eliminate him. It was the best we could hope for from the start, considering we never got a smoking gun on him, although I think we came close.
I'm willing to live with the results of what is going on now. Why aren't you?
But I wouldn't count Kenny out quite yet. Especially using an article mostly based on four-year-old information.
I also noticed something else at that article. Before you start quoting Special Agent Larry Carr as 'Ckret' there, you should ask yourself if a pro FBI agent would actually say this:Quote'The Christianson people are a mixed-up bunch looking for some publicity and a fast buck. Authors Porteous and Blevins are wackos, and I hear that Blevins in particular has some mental issues...'
Right. This is obviously someone posting up and stealing Carr's username. No FBI agent is going to go public with a post like that, and if you read the entire comment left on the article, it becomes downright ridiculous. Here's another excerpt, supposedly by Special Agent Carr:Quote'As for Kenny’s little “secret” as told to brother Lyle, folks were still closet-homosexuals back in the early 1990's. No doubt that Kenny didn’t have the balls to tell his brother that he was a homo and banging younger runaway boys. Kenny certainly didn’t have the balls to jump out of a 727 at night after a heist. Porteous and Blevins need to quit calling our office too. We have a special hotline for them, which is now referred to an outside answering service. We pulled their dociers in total, and there wasn’t enough to spread around as chicken feed for Blevins. Mr. Porteous: you need to get some new friends...'
Georger and others support this comment wholeheartedly. Sorry, boys...I have to call into question your credibility. You've lost your objectivity, your focus, and let it become personal. You actually BELIEVE that an FBI agent would make a comment like that with the same username he's used hundreds of times at Dropzone? I think the REAL Carr would have spelled 'dossier' correctly, but that's another story.Quote"Hello...(hello)...is there anybody IN there?"
I'm really surprised you would swallow a comment full of Title VII violations...and believe it was actually written by a current FBI agent.
You guys must be desperate, no kidding. I think it's time for another Black Sabbath tune, which beats reading some of the junk I read at that article.
http://youtu.be/xtqy4DTHGqg
I love this version. They never miss a note.
Quote
'As for Kenny’s little “secret” as told to brother Lyle, folks were still closet-homosexuals back in the early 1990's. No doubt that Kenny didn’t have the balls to tell his brother that he was a homo and banging younger runaway boys. Kenny certainly didn’t have the balls to jump out of a 727 at night after a heist. Porteous and Blevins need to quit calling our office too. We have a special hotline for them, which is now referred to an outside answering service. We pulled their dociers in total, and there wasn’t enough to spread around as chicken feed for Blevins. Mr. Porteous: you need to get some new friends...'
Georger and others support this comment wholeheartedly.
Quote.
Blevins, you are spouting Jo Weber mush.
I have never said ANYTHING like the above.
But I am now convinced it doesn't matter to you
what you say, or anyone else says. You aren't
listening or even in a dialogue with other human
beings, or care.
Sober up or whatever. Good luck!
Georger
To Georger,
I was bored and just looked to see what was going on outside of the DZ - SURE didn't mean to cause a WAR on the DZ.
All I did was direct you guys to the site and then Blevins has an excuse to go to war.
To Blevins,
For Heaven's sake - get a grip.
Remember in the things that Vickie posted - Knoss claimed that Duane was American Indian. I knew and know that is not true, but it just was NOT important enough to start a commotion about.
Duane was of German heritage and NOT American Indian. Because he would get the golden hues sometimes - he was often asked if he was Indian. Remember that Florence even called Cooper's complexion Latin.
Duane was every color, but fair and that depended on his sun exposure - but it is NOT relevant.
Heck, growing up I was considered olive and always came back at Christmas with a tan (my tan was ashy not golden). If I used the right kind of lotions it would get some gold hints.
What we do KNOW is Cooper was at least 5'10" and about 178-185 lbs and had dark brown piercing eyes. His complexion at the time of the robbery was NOT pale or fair.
What I thought was interesting about the site was:
1. It was stated Christiansen was not considered a suspect.
2. Someone using Ckret posted and it sounded like Carr to me.
Sure there was someone named George and Bruce - doesn't mean they are our Georger or Bruce. I liked the article because it was objective.
Blevin, you take everything anyone says and/or posts and go on the defensive. Before it is over you are doing the PROMO thing. Defend your position, but PLEASE do it without all of the repeating of the infomation with each and every post - that is called promotion and you do this at the expense of DZ and their time and space.
The way you guys did all of that I didn't know who was saying what - so I stopped reading it.
I was bored and just looked to see what was going on outside of the DZ - SURE didn't mean to cause a WAR on the DZ.
All I did was direct you guys to the site and then Blevins has an excuse to go to war.
To Blevins,
For Heaven's sake - get a grip.
Remember in the things that Vickie posted - Knoss claimed that Duane was American Indian. I knew and know that is not true, but it just was NOT important enough to start a commotion about.
Duane was of German heritage and NOT American Indian. Because he would get the golden hues sometimes - he was often asked if he was Indian. Remember that Florence even called Cooper's complexion Latin.
Duane was every color, but fair and that depended on his sun exposure - but it is NOT relevant.
Heck, growing up I was considered olive and always came back at Christmas with a tan (my tan was ashy not golden). If I used the right kind of lotions it would get some gold hints.
What we do KNOW is Cooper was at least 5'10" and about 178-185 lbs and had dark brown piercing eyes. His complexion at the time of the robbery was NOT pale or fair.
What I thought was interesting about the site was:
1. It was stated Christiansen was not considered a suspect.
2. Someone using Ckret posted and it sounded like Carr to me.
Sure there was someone named George and Bruce - doesn't mean they are our Georger or Bruce. I liked the article because it was objective.
Blevin, you take everything anyone says and/or posts and go on the defensive. Before it is over you are doing the PROMO thing. Defend your position, but PLEASE do it without all of the repeating of the infomation with each and every post - that is called promotion and you do this at the expense of DZ and their time and space.
The way you guys did all of that I didn't know who was saying what - so I stopped reading it.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Cooper is on his way to New Orleans. When he gets there I have NO idea what will happen, but it should be interesting.
I have some more work to do on his tour of N.Orleans - but, it should be fun. Wish I could go with him.
Wonder how many people kept old pictures from 1968 and 1969 in New Orleans establishments. A picture of Cooper may be hanging in a bar on a corner. A place he used to go often before he married me. I knew he paid a visit to a specific establishment after depositing me in a gift shop near-by. Wondered why he didn't want me with him - that is because the person he was going to see knew him as another name.
It was that same trip - he went to another place looking for the shoe shine guy - again depositing me else where in a shop. I realize now that Duane had a life in N.Orleans for a much longer period of time than I thought.
He has been gone 15 yrs and I still learn new things about him.
Johnny really got around in N.Orleans.
I have some more work to do on his tour of N.Orleans - but, it should be fun. Wish I could go with him.
Wonder how many people kept old pictures from 1968 and 1969 in New Orleans establishments. A picture of Cooper may be hanging in a bar on a corner. A place he used to go often before he married me. I knew he paid a visit to a specific establishment after depositing me in a gift shop near-by. Wondered why he didn't want me with him - that is because the person he was going to see knew him as another name.
It was that same trip - he went to another place looking for the shoe shine guy - again depositing me else where in a shop. I realize now that Duane had a life in N.Orleans for a much longer period of time than I thought.
He has been gone 15 yrs and I still learn new things about him.
Johnny really got around in N.Orleans.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteQuote'Blevins, you are spouting Jo Weber mush.
I have never said ANYTHING like the above.
But I am now convinced it doesn't matter to you
what you say, or anyone else says. You aren't
listening or even in a dialogue with other human
beings, or care.
Sober up or whatever. Good luck!
Georger'
I'm not going to re-quote my entire post again. Here's my take on this stuff: You posted up a supporting comment on an article that was full of inaccuracies, without even questioning a single point in the article.
And your comment came right on the heels of a phony comment by someone else who was obviously stealing Larry Carr's username. You didn't even question that. You just 'went along'. And if you do this, then I am going to call you on it, because you have been put up by others previously as being an expert on the case.
Tom Kaye said this about you in an email to me:Quote'Georger will always have priority with me because he was the person exclusively responsible for my teams entire involvement in the Cooper case....'
And yet you keep missing the boat. I vote that Kaye find someone else for this job. Whatever objectivity you once had is long gone.
(i) Huh? I dont get it but it doesnt matter.
(ii) Kenny wrote home saying he was as tanned as
a potato chip, and 'that' passes Kenny through the
Cooper ID filter according to you - meaning: 'Cooper
was as tanned as a potatoe chip, not olive skinned
but tanned as the major trait, and all witnesses were
wrong - because Blevins says so?
(iii) Lastly, I am not going to respond to anything
further of yours, because there is nothing to respond to.
If others here at Dropzone enjoy and benefit from your stupendously ignorant ravings and take you seriously, that is their problem and yours.
Come on boys and girls...play nice with your myths...
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
I really question that line of thinking - it just sounds like something right out of a gangster movie.
Desperate people do desperate things...perhaps an interview that did not go well or maybe he was in the NW to just connect with the only Happy and Free time he could actually remember in his adult life. He felt there was NOTHING left for him, but to go back to prison. He thought he would be apprehended and then sent to prison. It failed and so he had to JUMP. I do NOT believe this was a WELL thought out plan.
After spending most of his adult life in prison - he is desperate and felt his life was already over.
He had found he had a disease that would require his being in ONE place with no income to maintain life substaining treatment. He had NO choice other than to get himself back into the prison system or kill himself (he wasn't sure how to do that - but, when the authorities came forth with his demands he had to make a decision - life or death)!
This is why he was child like when the money arrived - he expected the authorities to storm the plane and arrest or kill him. He was giddy with delight and made the choice to go with it.
Maybe he was counting on someone seeing him that he knew. Also the last flight and the lowest attendance may have been his ONLY reason if there was any kind of logical reason.
It also may be that this was the only 727 going into Seattle at the desired time.
NOTE THIS: He let Tina go out to get the chutes and the money - how did he know they would not send someone else back with the money? Yes, the passengers where still sitting in the forward cabin - and if Cooper actually was in the bathroom it would have been during this time.
Maybe he expected the Authorities to charge him at this time instead of Tina coming back with the money....at least by being in the bathroom he could walk out with is hands-up and he would have accomplished his goal. Life long treatment and in a place he had spent the happiest days of his life and perhaps where his only child was living at the time...a child who would have been in her early 20's.
Even Georger stated this after analyzing the data:
But this is where Georger is wrong. Cooper actually won. Exactly what Cooper experienced that night and the following days and yrs - other can only imagine.
I know Cooper survived and the survival of that jump forever changed the course of his life.
He took only a small amount of the cash with him when he left - leaving the rest in WASHINGTON and OREGON.
He started to change his life - and it was a gradual process taking several yrs. He was ALWAYS looking over his shoulder - his eyes would dart all about a room as if to see if the "enemy" was there lurking in the corner. This habit of his was annoying to me - and his only explanation was "Just looking around to see if there is anyone I know here". He was always on guard. He like to work with only one contact with the client - why he ALWAY had someone one else deliver the policy or mail it.
He did NOT like second contacts.
You are right - Georger. The jump had to be done that day. November 24 was an important day to him as was the next day -Thanksgiving. He never forgot this.
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