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QuoteSo publihs it!
Get it over with!
By the time this ends we will all be speaking
Chinese and eating with chop sticks!
Get it over with!
Duane was Cooper.
Now serious:
Georger - I have never wanted Duane's story or my story to be published unless I could prove it.
The world is tired of suspect books they just throw away and besides I haven't a clue how to write a book.
Tried to work with a writer and all he did was TWIST everything I said - claimed you had to tell the Public what they wanted to sell a book. At that point - I did nothing more than set out to try to find the truth....if I accomplish that then maybe it will all be worth it. If not - well, I won't be around. Either way - I gave it all I had.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
Quote
QuoteSo publihs it!
Get it over with!
By the time this ends we will all be speaking
Chinese and eating with chop sticks!
Get it over with!
Duane was Cooper.
Now serious:
Georger - I have never wanted Duane's story or my story to be published unless I could prove it.
The world is tired of suspect books they just throw away and besides I haven't a clue how to write a book.
Tried to work with a writer and all he did was TWIST everything I said - claimed you had to tell the Public what they wanted to sell a book. At that point - I did nothing more than set out to try to find the truth....if I accomplish that then maybe it will all be worth it. If not - well, I won't be around. Either way - I gave it all I had.
We have given it all we have!
Duane was Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteSomeone Stated:
So there is a possibility that the FBI is right and Duane was never in the Navy. Do you know when Duane's federal criminal record started?
NO, Duane was in the Navy - and there are letters from the Navy to his mother explaining things that are going on with her son. All legal military papers and copies of letters. John had the orginal latters and made copies to sent to me. Some Doug Pasternac found in archived files.
Duane was in the Navy and after he got kicked out he was in the Army within one month. Now this is ALL documented and regardless of whatever the law states - that is what the paper trail says.
What do I think: I believe Duane got himself into the Army and at after he was already in training they found out he had a bad Conduct discharge from the Navy and put him out on the Undesirable. That makes sense.
I had always assumed it was the joy ride in the Officer's vehicle that caused it. It was WAR time - and the ARMY didn't care - if you had 2 arms and 2 legs - that was fine....but, the did let him go within a month to 6 wks as an Undesirable.
I don't mind answering questions but DO NOT TWIST my answers, please. WHEN I say DOCUMENTED take my word or ask someone who has seen these things.
Jo, It took more than two arms and legs to get into the Army during WW2 and later. Even speeding tickets had to be explained and checked out.
If nothing else, this is supported by the Undesirable Discharge from the Army. This particular discharge is an administrative one over which Duane would not have any control unless he wanted to argue about it.
Robert Nicholson
Robert99 50
QuoteJo Replies to the list below. I see some errors here in this prior post so I will try to this weekend pull the files and give accurate dates on the below or at least what I have. As for the item about Daisy Schuller and Fly Brummitt - we never knew if those actually were Duane - marrying 2 women one yr apart sounded strange to me.
I will pull these and get ACCURATE records because some of them are wrong or misleading or need comments made on, This may have come from a list someone else did for me and not from my actually viewing and listing the documents.--June 1941 - May 1942) Duane entered Navy in Bad conduct discharge approx 1 year later.
--Mar 31, 1943 - July 1943) Duane enlists Army - two months in he is dishonorably discharged.
--Oct 11, 1943 Marries Daisy Schuller, Madison, Michigan
--Oct 25, 1944 Marries Floy Brummitt, Cook County, Il,
--Nov 25, 1944, Arrested in Chicago.
--Then to McNeil in 1944??
Jo Asks:
Question - did THEY even fingerpirnt enlisted men in 1941 and 1943? Was this actually a normal thing? If so I want to know where Duane's prints are and for them to be compared with prints the FBI used from McNeil . The FBI refused to acquire 2 other sets of Weber's prints - one from Colorado and one from Florida.
They insisted on using the McNeil prints from 1944 or 1945.
Jo, US servicemen and women were definitely fingerprinted on entering into military service during WW2.
I have seen motion pictures of Graves Registration personnel fingerprinting dead soldiers and sailors. There would be no need to fingerprint them after death if they had not been fingerprinted earlier.
Robert Nicholson
georger 244
QuoteQuoteSomeone Stated:
So there is a possibility that the FBI is right and Duane was never in the Navy. Do you know when Duane's federal criminal record started?
NO, Duane was in the Navy - and there are letters from the Navy to his mother explaining things that are going on with her son. All legal military papers and copies of letters. John had the orginal latters and made copies to sent to me. Some Doug Pasternac found in archived files.
Duane was in the Navy and after he got kicked out he was in the Army within one month. Now this is ALL documented and regardless of whatever the law states - that is what the paper trail says.
What do I think: I believe Duane got himself into the Army and at after he was already in training they found out he had a bad Conduct discharge from the Navy and put him out on the Undesirable. That makes sense.
I had always assumed it was the joy ride in the Officer's vehicle that caused it. It was WAR time - and the ARMY didn't care - if you had 2 arms and 2 legs - that was fine....but, the did let him go within a month to 6 wks as an Undesirable.
I don't mind answering questions but DO NOT TWIST my answers, please. WHEN I say DOCUMENTED take my word or ask someone who has seen these things.
Jo, It took more than two arms and legs to get into the Army during WW2 and later. Even speeding tickets had to be explained and checked out.
If nothing else, this is supported by the Undesirable Discharge from the Army. This particular discharge is an administrative one over which Duane would not have any control unless he wanted to argue about it.
Robert Nicholson
I think Jo screwed up the page
formatting here again - how the
page appears. Someone needs to
reset it again ?
smokin99 0
QuoteJo Replies to the list below. I see some errors here in this prior post so I will try to this weekend pull the files and give accurate dates on the below or at least what I have.
As for the item about Daisy Schuller and Fly Brummitt - we never knew if those actually were Duane - marrying 2 women one yr apart sounded strange to me.
I will pull these and get ACCURATE records because some of them are wrong or misleading or need comments made on, This may have come from a list someone else did for me and not from my actually viewing and listing the documents.--June 1941 - May 1942) Duane entered Navy in Bad conduct discharge approx 1 year later.
--Mar 31, 1943 - July 1943) Duane enlists Army - two months in he is dishonorably discharged.
--Oct 11, 1943 Marries Daisy Schuller, Madison, Michigan
--Oct 25, 1944 Marries Floy Brummitt, Cook County, Il,
--Nov 25, 1944, Arrested in Chicago.
--Then to McNeil in 1944??
Jo Asks:
Question - did THEY even fingerpirnt enlisted men in 1941 and 1943? Was this actually a normal thing? If so I want to know where Duane's prints are and for them to be compared with prints the FBI used from McNeil . The FBI refused to acquire 2 other sets of Weber's prints - one from Colorado and one from Florida.
They insisted on using the McNeil prints from 1944 or 1945.
Pretty sure that all of the items are from your prior posts -- (except maybe the Floy Brummitt marriage -- don't know if you've ever mentioned her), So... if they are wrong or misleading....another good reason that you need to organize a list.
The Floy Brummitt - Duane Lorin Weber marriage, Cook County, Il. looks pretty legit to me on the reference I found - (full name, and it's around the time he was arrested in Cook county) but you know you can purchase a copy of the marriage certificate from Cook County if you are so inclined.
I've never found anything on Daisy Schuller, Madison, Mich. - that's from your posts -- so have nothing on that one.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
Farflung 0
smokin99,
Being that it is Friday and you are hot….. I figured it was time to offer another ‘Phrase of the Day’.
You were a few hours too late to lay claim to the other one and there are the Federal Truth in Labeling Laws to consider.
Being that it is Friday and you are hot….. I figured it was time to offer another ‘Phrase of the Day’.
You were a few hours too late to lay claim to the other one and there are the Federal Truth in Labeling Laws to consider.
smokin99 0
Far flungin real! DMV - what a way to spend a day
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
smokin99 0
Quotesmokin99,
Being that it is Friday and you are hot….. I figured it was time to offer another ‘Phrase of the Day’.
You were a few hours too late to lay claim to the other one and there are the Federal Truth in Labeling Laws to consider.
Day late, dollar short.. That's what they said at the DMV too. Oh well... I gladly lay claim to this one coz it's much nicer than that other one anyway.
Plus I like having my name on a Farflung poster.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
377 22
QuotePlus I like having my name on a Farflung poster.
A badge of honor indeed and one to which I aspire.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
Moderating this forum can't be very rewarding for a hard core jumper like Quade, I mean we rarely talk about real skydiving, so I have a proposal: I'll moderate it.
Full disclosure: I'd let Snow back on.
Without Q I think Snow would play well with the rest of us. Sure, we'd have a few skirmishes but nothing I couldn't handle.
I'd worry about turning into a control freak, Absolute power corrupts.
377
Full disclosure: I'd let Snow back on.
Without Q I think Snow would play well with the rest of us. Sure, we'd have a few skirmishes but nothing I couldn't handle.
I'd worry about turning into a control freak, Absolute power corrupts.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
--June 1941 - May 1942) Duane entered Navy in Bad conduct discharge approx 1 year later.
--Mar 31, 1943 - July 1943) Duane enlists Army - two months in he is dishonorably discharged.
--Oct 11, 1943 Marries Daisy Schuller, Madison, Michigan
--Oct 25, 1944 Marries Floy Brummitt, Cook County, Il,
--Nov 25, 1944, Arrested in Chicago.
--Then to McNeil in 1944??
June 18 1941 Entered Navy.
May 30, 1942 - Bad conduct Discharge.
Nov 1 1942 - Selective Service Registration.
Nov 18 1942 - Mother receives letter regarding the appeal for
EX-S2c, USN.
4 months later
March 31 1943 - Duane leaves from induction Station #4 in Akron, Ohio to FORT HAYES?
April 15 1943 - letter post marked from Camp Sibert.
July 14 1943 Discharged as an Undesirable.
I have copies of the "appeals' although they did not call them appeals. Addressed to his mother who was trying to get the Bad Conduct Discharge reversed.
This is when the family left Akron in SHAME and went to CA. They were PROUD people and this was just more than his father could bear. All of the communications are addressed to Mother Weber and not to the father. I had not thought about this until I read the letter from Camp Sibert and noted what was NOT said.
Amazing what you can "get" out of something when you have been over it for the Umpteenth time. Before I was looking for facts - this is not something that is written it was in what WAS NOT written. I am trying to be objective in this look back.
Mother Weber receives an inquiry she made to the County of Monroe, MI regarding his marriage to Daisy Schuller. They say there is a record of this marriage on July 23 1943 and that each gave their ages as 21. I do NOT know why she made this enquiry unless the girl was pregnant. Duane turned 19 that yr.
John (the brother) had told me about a girl who contacted Mother Weber claiming to be pregnant - so I assume this is what this was all about. This makes sense regarding the only thing Duane every told me about his daughter....because I remember thinking - I was young enough to be his daughter.
I was told the daughter's name was Zona and the wife's name was Edna. In his letter of 1956 from San Quentin when his father died he asked that Edna represent him at the funeral.
Duane told me the last time he saw his daughter she was 9 yrs old....so Daisy would NOT be the mother of Zona. A friend of Duane's told me that Duane claimed to have a son also, but Duane never told me about this.
The 1944 marriage to Flo Brummitt was sent to me by a member of this thread, but I have never been able to trace her. Like others - the fact this was in Cook County makes it seem very possible, but we have records of Duane being in CA in 1944 - arrest records...San Franciso, County. Duane was on probation for stealing Government checks from ladies of the night in Calilfornia night clubs. These were military wives and the checks were government checks. Now that was Dumb, but also these wives should have been at home or with family not in a bar.
Duane runs away after finding the judge was aware of his dishonorable discharge and the judge was known to give such individuals life sentences. I have the research on such a man by the name of Henry Weber who was sent to McNeil on such charges - life sentence...but was removed from McNeil and his sentence reduced.
What happens after he is caught in Chicago you guys already know and that he was shipped back to CA and sentenced in 1945 to McNeil - a place the FBI agent of record told me Duane was never a resident of and then changed his story AFTER I told him I had the records in my hand. It was in 1945 that Duane would assume another name for several yrs and maybe more than one name.
Still want to know who Wavy Greene was? I will never ever forget that name.
Want to know about Placerville and the other town in the moutains Duane talked about.
When he mentioned this he mention the name of the road 'we" lived on. We were in Tahoe and he was re-living the past - he never explained why we could not go to CA. or to LaVegas, NV - just that he could never go back....this was in 1979 while we were in Tahoe after we left Seattle.
--Mar 31, 1943 - July 1943) Duane enlists Army - two months in he is dishonorably discharged.
--Oct 11, 1943 Marries Daisy Schuller, Madison, Michigan
--Oct 25, 1944 Marries Floy Brummitt, Cook County, Il,
--Nov 25, 1944, Arrested in Chicago.
--Then to McNeil in 1944??
June 18 1941 Entered Navy.
May 30, 1942 - Bad conduct Discharge.
Nov 1 1942 - Selective Service Registration.
Nov 18 1942 - Mother receives letter regarding the appeal for
EX-S2c, USN.
4 months later
March 31 1943 - Duane leaves from induction Station #4 in Akron, Ohio to FORT HAYES?
April 15 1943 - letter post marked from Camp Sibert.
July 14 1943 Discharged as an Undesirable.
I have copies of the "appeals' although they did not call them appeals. Addressed to his mother who was trying to get the Bad Conduct Discharge reversed.
This is when the family left Akron in SHAME and went to CA. They were PROUD people and this was just more than his father could bear. All of the communications are addressed to Mother Weber and not to the father. I had not thought about this until I read the letter from Camp Sibert and noted what was NOT said.
Amazing what you can "get" out of something when you have been over it for the Umpteenth time. Before I was looking for facts - this is not something that is written it was in what WAS NOT written. I am trying to be objective in this look back.
Mother Weber receives an inquiry she made to the County of Monroe, MI regarding his marriage to Daisy Schuller. They say there is a record of this marriage on July 23 1943 and that each gave their ages as 21. I do NOT know why she made this enquiry unless the girl was pregnant. Duane turned 19 that yr.
John (the brother) had told me about a girl who contacted Mother Weber claiming to be pregnant - so I assume this is what this was all about. This makes sense regarding the only thing Duane every told me about his daughter....because I remember thinking - I was young enough to be his daughter.
I was told the daughter's name was Zona and the wife's name was Edna. In his letter of 1956 from San Quentin when his father died he asked that Edna represent him at the funeral.
Duane told me the last time he saw his daughter she was 9 yrs old....so Daisy would NOT be the mother of Zona. A friend of Duane's told me that Duane claimed to have a son also, but Duane never told me about this.
The 1944 marriage to Flo Brummitt was sent to me by a member of this thread, but I have never been able to trace her. Like others - the fact this was in Cook County makes it seem very possible, but we have records of Duane being in CA in 1944 - arrest records...San Franciso, County. Duane was on probation for stealing Government checks from ladies of the night in Calilfornia night clubs. These were military wives and the checks were government checks. Now that was Dumb, but also these wives should have been at home or with family not in a bar.
Duane runs away after finding the judge was aware of his dishonorable discharge and the judge was known to give such individuals life sentences. I have the research on such a man by the name of Henry Weber who was sent to McNeil on such charges - life sentence...but was removed from McNeil and his sentence reduced.
What happens after he is caught in Chicago you guys already know and that he was shipped back to CA and sentenced in 1945 to McNeil - a place the FBI agent of record told me Duane was never a resident of and then changed his story AFTER I told him I had the records in my hand. It was in 1945 that Duane would assume another name for several yrs and maybe more than one name.
Still want to know who Wavy Greene was? I will never ever forget that name.
Want to know about Placerville and the other town in the moutains Duane talked about.
When he mentioned this he mention the name of the road 'we" lived on. We were in Tahoe and he was re-living the past - he never explained why we could not go to CA. or to LaVegas, NV - just that he could never go back....this was in 1979 while we were in Tahoe after we left Seattle.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert this was discussed before.
I did a detailed review of the files about the McNeil thing.
Duane had been charged in CA with a Federal Crime of stealing government checks. As he was awaiting trial in late 1944 he took off and headed East. He was found, but without going back to those records and letters to his mother I can't possibly keep all of this in my head.
When he was found (due to a petty thief crime - probably food) the authorities wrote his mother a letter that he was being sent back to CA. When he arrived in CA. in early 1945 (only days later) he was sentenced to McNeil and transported immediately.
During the time he took off from Ca in 1944 - was arrested and sent to a county facility and when they did the check found the outstanding warrants in CA. I was told that the judge he was going before in CA. was HARD LINE and Duane was scared and ran away. Because the crime commited in CA was the theft and or forgery of federal cks, I think that is why he was sent to McNeil.
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