johnnyringo 0 #24551 August 6, 2011 a skydiver and instructor for 13 years , i have 7000 + jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyringo 0 #24552 August 6, 2011 by the way I can hear you and I don't care, lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyringo 0 #24553 August 6, 2011 377, i would bet 10 cent's you knew my father Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G_Jones 0 #24554 August 6, 2011 Quote This is not "theory" but everything that would help pin point the airliner's position at the time of the pressure bump, which is the supposed time of the jump, is missing. The exact flight path cannot be determined from the information in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts. In addition, at least the times, and probably the aircraft locations, shown on the so-called FBI maps of the flight south from Seattle are not believeable. There are rumors that, despite their denial, the flight crew did check the cabin after the pressure bump. So you are suggesting that the information could have been removed for the specific purpose of hiding the location of the plane during that time? Possibly, as soon as Tina was back in cockpit they put on oxygen masks and climbed up to 15,000? The pilots must have been very angry and been coming up with ideas of how to get at Cooper or get him off the plane ASAP, especially if they thought he might detonate the bomb anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #24555 August 6, 2011 Blevins you and Jo have been told by the FBI that neither of yor candidates was Cooper Yet the both of you continue to Build your case with Lies. Yes I went public recently and told the news paper in washington Dc and newyork times that both of your stories is Bull and gave them solid evidence to prove it. Still the only posible candidate is Wilson. It is a proven fact that Cooper died the night of the jump . The funny thing is we all no this to be a fact however you and Jo continue to claim that you no who Cooper was.Why do you say it could have been Duane and Jo continue to build her Lies It is very funy. that the both of you continue to BS all. Fact as I was told by major networks that no one believes your claims. And yes blevins and Jo they mention your names specifically.Both of you have damaged your creditability.when it comes too rocks Both of you have have them as pets They have the same IQ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G_Jones 0 #24556 August 6, 2011 QuoteWouldnt you ? Absolutely. And I can't imagine that if any inconsistencies later surfaced in any of the crews' accounts, that anyone investigating would give them any trouble about it. The guy was threatening to kill them. If I remember correctly, it was Rataczak who said in an interview that "this was war!" I bet if the pilots could have determined that the bomb was a fake, they would have gone back and thrown Cooper out the back door themselves, and without his chute on. If something like that had happened it might help explain some things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyringo 0 #24557 August 6, 2011 chuck sr pic attached Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtimelurker 0 #24558 August 6, 2011 QuoteQuote Possibly, as soon as Tina was back in cockpit they put on oxygen masks and climbed up to 15,000? I dont think they could have for a couple of reasons , top of the list would be the Continental Airlines plane and pilot Tom Bohan, who had been flying 4,000 feet (1,200 m) above and 4 minutes behind Flight 305. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #24559 August 6, 2011 Quote Just out of curiosity, how do those of you who state with utmost certainty that the FBI "has done this," or "has not done that" know those things as the gospel truth? Has the FBI told you that or are you assuming? Sure, leaks are possible but to what extent? I'm not so naive as to believe everything the government tells me but how many of you guys are sitting side by side with the FBI and "co-investigating" and have access to every single file and document the FBI possesses on this case? I try to see things in their simplest forms and I'm wondering how so many people here "know" without a doubt what or who the FBI has tested/not tested/interviewed etc. It's crystal clear to me that any investigative agency with an open case is not going to share everything, even if leaks occur. I know that from experience; I've seen it on homicide cases etc. Some media types with contacts can ferret out info but never all of it. Thanks. Realizing I can't speak for everyone, I don't think many on here take what the media reports at face value....there's been way too many myths reported over the years, so, for most of us, things are generally assumed to be caged with an "as reported by" disclaimer. While some on this thread have worked with the FBI and the citizen science group, and therefore may "know" more than others (and per Sluggo...Those that are talking don't know and those that know aren't talking), speculation is basically all this discussion is and will probably ever be -- esp. since we don't have Ckret anymore. (And some of what he posted was speculation). I think most of us are pretty much in tune with the fact that the FBI's not gonna spill all their beans. I actually prefer it that way....I imagine it makes catching the bad guys a little easier. So all that to say that you make a valid point......and welcome to the DB Dorkzone Magical Mystery Tour.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #24560 August 6, 2011 G_Jones writes: So you are suggesting that the information could have been removed for the specific purpose of hiding the location of the plane during that time? Robert99 replies: No, I am not suggesting. I'm stating that in plain language. G_Jones writes: Possibly, as soon as Tina was back in cockpit they put on oxygen masks and climbed up to 15,000? Robert99 replies: Cooper had told the flight crew to fly at 10,000 feet and not to go higher. If they had gone above 10,000 feet the cabin oxygen masks would have dropped down at some point and Cooper would have known what was happening. In northern California, the airliner did climb to 11,000 feet in order to clear some mountains between it and Reno but that was apparently not high enough to cause the oxygen masks to deploy. G_Jones writes: The pilots must have been very angry and been coming up with ideas of how to get at Cooper or get him off the plane ASAP, especially if they thought he might detonate the bomb anyway. Robert99 replies: Basically, Cooper held all the cards as long as he was on the plane. About the best thing for the crew to do was play along with him and not to get him stressed out. However, it should also be noted that while on the ground in Seattle, the crew suggested that they climb above the existing overcast and then fly over the Pacific until Cooper jumped or blew the plane up. However, NWA ruled that out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites longtimelurker 0 #24561 August 6, 2011 We look at the eye witness drawings and assume that is what Dan Cooper must look like , numourous witnesses say so. One trick is to use props to distract attention , this could be a walking stick , crutches , plaster cast or even dark glasses. This is what is remembered best. Certain drugs increase the melanin count thus rendering skin tone darker.A right handed person can appear to be left handed , a vodka drinker can appear to be a bourban drinker.Its all the better if the person can keep the "disguise" together. There doesnt appear to be a disguise but nonetheless the description later will not fit the actual person.Hiding in plain site is one way of looking at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #24562 August 6, 2011 Quote377, i would bet 10 cent's you knew my father It's possible. I did get to meet some Knights back when dinosaurs roamed the DZs. I was just a kid then and in total awe. The piggyback rig reportedly was developed by Dan Abbot at Security Parachutes in San Leandro CA. He had been working with the Golden Knights in Arizona so maybe the idea or part of it came from there. Did your Dad mention Security or Dan? You sure have some deep family roots in this sport. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EVickiW 0 #24563 August 6, 2011 QuoteVicki, have you got Mel's DNA or fingerprints in the system! I'm sure this has been asked but I can't remember...sorry. Mel was in the Navy. His enlistment date was November 24, 1942 out of San Francisco. He is a wanted felon and his fingerprints are on file at Leavenworth, San Quentin and Madison, WI. He is already in the FBI system and has a FBI number. From what I understood, DNA could not be from a family member, but only from the suspect themselves.Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #24564 August 6, 2011 Vicki, have the FBI compared his prints to the ones found on the plane? LTlurker, been a lot of discussion about unreliability of witness sketches. 377 can probably sum it up best.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EVickiW 0 #24565 August 6, 2011 QuoteVicki, have the FBI compared his prints to the ones found on the plane? I am not sure....I spoke with Eng in February 2011....He called me at work on the recommendation of others (we know who). I gave him the information and FBI # on the back of Mel's mug shot. I have not heard from him since and it is not my style to call or email continuously. My take is the squeaky wheel just get REALLY annoying after a while until it becomes a white noise. The FBI in Seattle has the information I supplied and they can decide what to do with it.Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites longtimelurker 0 #24566 August 6, 2011 Thanks Orange1 , i was surprised this evening to discover L.Carr may very well have taken credit for the comic book thing.Apparantly it's presented as his theory in a book , presumably one of the numourous new or upcoming ones.Authors fault maybe. I do have one question , has anyone that mentioned a bourbon drinker link ever mentioned something more than just bourbon , as in bourbon & .... , on the record i mean as now it's mentioned if it hasnt before i'm sure google will be getting some hits Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #24567 August 6, 2011 Quote Mel was in the Navy. His enlistment date was November 24, 1942 out of San Francisco. He is a wanted felon and his fingerprints are on file at Leavenworth, San Quentin and Madison, WI. He is already in the FBI system and has a FBI number. From what I understood, DNA could not be from a family member, but only from the suspect themselves. Not on the crime shows. All they need is familia dna...you will carry your fathers gene and your mother - but they would know you are related. They do this all the time to find out who the father is. Why can't the do this with your dna.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #24568 August 6, 2011 From what I understood, DNA could not be from a family member, but only from the suspect themselves. Vicki I want to ask you about this above. Normally you would prefer to have dna directly from the subject, but if not available you resort to a close relative, as in the example below. Did anyone offer an explanation for your statement above? ? For example, the receent news article about M Cooper states the following: "A DNA test has failed to connect a deceased central Oregon man to the unsolved 1971 hijacking of a Northwest Orient jet. The DNA that they were able to extract from my uncle L.D. (Cooper)'s daughter, who was born after the fact, did not match the partial sample of DNA that they have in their files," Cooper says. But neither Ms. Cooper nor the FBI considers this outcome definitive one way or the other...." You can find this article at: http://news.opb.org/article/niece_no_dna_match_to_p urported_d.b._cooper_hijacking_suspect/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #24559 August 6, 2011 Quote Just out of curiosity, how do those of you who state with utmost certainty that the FBI "has done this," or "has not done that" know those things as the gospel truth? Has the FBI told you that or are you assuming? Sure, leaks are possible but to what extent? I'm not so naive as to believe everything the government tells me but how many of you guys are sitting side by side with the FBI and "co-investigating" and have access to every single file and document the FBI possesses on this case? I try to see things in their simplest forms and I'm wondering how so many people here "know" without a doubt what or who the FBI has tested/not tested/interviewed etc. It's crystal clear to me that any investigative agency with an open case is not going to share everything, even if leaks occur. I know that from experience; I've seen it on homicide cases etc. Some media types with contacts can ferret out info but never all of it. Thanks. Realizing I can't speak for everyone, I don't think many on here take what the media reports at face value....there's been way too many myths reported over the years, so, for most of us, things are generally assumed to be caged with an "as reported by" disclaimer. While some on this thread have worked with the FBI and the citizen science group, and therefore may "know" more than others (and per Sluggo...Those that are talking don't know and those that know aren't talking), speculation is basically all this discussion is and will probably ever be -- esp. since we don't have Ckret anymore. (And some of what he posted was speculation). I think most of us are pretty much in tune with the fact that the FBI's not gonna spill all their beans. I actually prefer it that way....I imagine it makes catching the bad guys a little easier. So all that to say that you make a valid point......and welcome to the DB Dorkzone Magical Mystery Tour.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #24560 August 6, 2011 G_Jones writes: So you are suggesting that the information could have been removed for the specific purpose of hiding the location of the plane during that time? Robert99 replies: No, I am not suggesting. I'm stating that in plain language. G_Jones writes: Possibly, as soon as Tina was back in cockpit they put on oxygen masks and climbed up to 15,000? Robert99 replies: Cooper had told the flight crew to fly at 10,000 feet and not to go higher. If they had gone above 10,000 feet the cabin oxygen masks would have dropped down at some point and Cooper would have known what was happening. In northern California, the airliner did climb to 11,000 feet in order to clear some mountains between it and Reno but that was apparently not high enough to cause the oxygen masks to deploy. G_Jones writes: The pilots must have been very angry and been coming up with ideas of how to get at Cooper or get him off the plane ASAP, especially if they thought he might detonate the bomb anyway. Robert99 replies: Basically, Cooper held all the cards as long as he was on the plane. About the best thing for the crew to do was play along with him and not to get him stressed out. However, it should also be noted that while on the ground in Seattle, the crew suggested that they climb above the existing overcast and then fly over the Pacific until Cooper jumped or blew the plane up. However, NWA ruled that out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtimelurker 0 #24561 August 6, 2011 We look at the eye witness drawings and assume that is what Dan Cooper must look like , numourous witnesses say so. One trick is to use props to distract attention , this could be a walking stick , crutches , plaster cast or even dark glasses. This is what is remembered best. Certain drugs increase the melanin count thus rendering skin tone darker.A right handed person can appear to be left handed , a vodka drinker can appear to be a bourban drinker.Its all the better if the person can keep the "disguise" together. There doesnt appear to be a disguise but nonetheless the description later will not fit the actual person.Hiding in plain site is one way of looking at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #24562 August 6, 2011 Quote377, i would bet 10 cent's you knew my father It's possible. I did get to meet some Knights back when dinosaurs roamed the DZs. I was just a kid then and in total awe. The piggyback rig reportedly was developed by Dan Abbot at Security Parachutes in San Leandro CA. He had been working with the Golden Knights in Arizona so maybe the idea or part of it came from there. Did your Dad mention Security or Dan? You sure have some deep family roots in this sport. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVickiW 0 #24563 August 6, 2011 QuoteVicki, have you got Mel's DNA or fingerprints in the system! I'm sure this has been asked but I can't remember...sorry. Mel was in the Navy. His enlistment date was November 24, 1942 out of San Francisco. He is a wanted felon and his fingerprints are on file at Leavenworth, San Quentin and Madison, WI. He is already in the FBI system and has a FBI number. From what I understood, DNA could not be from a family member, but only from the suspect themselves.Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #24564 August 6, 2011 Vicki, have the FBI compared his prints to the ones found on the plane? LTlurker, been a lot of discussion about unreliability of witness sketches. 377 can probably sum it up best.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVickiW 0 #24565 August 6, 2011 QuoteVicki, have the FBI compared his prints to the ones found on the plane? I am not sure....I spoke with Eng in February 2011....He called me at work on the recommendation of others (we know who). I gave him the information and FBI # on the back of Mel's mug shot. I have not heard from him since and it is not my style to call or email continuously. My take is the squeaky wheel just get REALLY annoying after a while until it becomes a white noise. The FBI in Seattle has the information I supplied and they can decide what to do with it.Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtimelurker 0 #24566 August 6, 2011 Thanks Orange1 , i was surprised this evening to discover L.Carr may very well have taken credit for the comic book thing.Apparantly it's presented as his theory in a book , presumably one of the numourous new or upcoming ones.Authors fault maybe. I do have one question , has anyone that mentioned a bourbon drinker link ever mentioned something more than just bourbon , as in bourbon & .... , on the record i mean as now it's mentioned if it hasnt before i'm sure google will be getting some hits Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #24567 August 6, 2011 Quote Mel was in the Navy. His enlistment date was November 24, 1942 out of San Francisco. He is a wanted felon and his fingerprints are on file at Leavenworth, San Quentin and Madison, WI. He is already in the FBI system and has a FBI number. From what I understood, DNA could not be from a family member, but only from the suspect themselves. Not on the crime shows. All they need is familia dna...you will carry your fathers gene and your mother - but they would know you are related. They do this all the time to find out who the father is. Why can't the do this with your dna.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #24568 August 6, 2011 From what I understood, DNA could not be from a family member, but only from the suspect themselves. Vicki I want to ask you about this above. Normally you would prefer to have dna directly from the subject, but if not available you resort to a close relative, as in the example below. Did anyone offer an explanation for your statement above? ? For example, the receent news article about M Cooper states the following: "A DNA test has failed to connect a deceased central Oregon man to the unsolved 1971 hijacking of a Northwest Orient jet. The DNA that they were able to extract from my uncle L.D. (Cooper)'s daughter, who was born after the fact, did not match the partial sample of DNA that they have in their files," Cooper says. But neither Ms. Cooper nor the FBI considers this outcome definitive one way or the other...." You can find this article at: http://news.opb.org/article/niece_no_dna_match_to_p urported_d.b._cooper_hijacking_suspect/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #24569 August 6, 2011 Who is a public figure in the eyes of the law? An author of a legal book on defamation writes: The concept of the "public figure" is broader than celebrities and politicians. A person can become an "involuntary public figure" as the result of publicity, even though that person did not want or invite it. Tina never sought publicity. In fact she shunned it. Still, being associated with a famous crime has made her a public figure. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is IMO. Justice Farflung. This may come up on your bar exam. Would you agree or file a dissenting opinion? Damn. Marla Cooper never even got on Letterman and now shes just an ordinary person again. Fame can be so fleeting. Her planned cosmetic line will never happen, but there is still some commercial interest in her Uncle Norjack label for Bourbon. The speed at which the FBI attacked the DNA question is uncharacteristic. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mansell 0 #24570 August 6, 2011 I haven't been following this thread since it's inception..so I have to ask... Why is Tina so unwilling to discuss anything DB Cooper? Is she just over it and feels she has said everything she knows? I see a lot of people talking about her being fragile and such so I'm just curious what has happened to make her this way involving the case. Does ANYONE that was onboard the plane actively discuss the case? the pilots? other attendants? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pek771 0 #24571 August 6, 2011 Robert99, thanks very much for the answer. Another question: how do rubber bands last for so many years in water? I have always found this DB Cooper subject fascinating from the day it happened. I also believe he did not jump over any mountainous terrain. Your aero analysis supports that. Man, that yellow Cub sure is nice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #24572 August 6, 2011 Johnnyringo: Christensen has two facts about him that completely eliminate him as being DB Cooper. First, he is too short at 5ft 8in rather than around 6ft for DB. That alone should be enough to count him out. However, the second fact is his skin color is white and not the olive color of DB Cooper. Those two facts and the DNA negative match, make him totaly not a candidate. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #24573 August 6, 2011 QuoteRobert99, thanks very much for the answer. Another question: how do rubber bands last for so many years in water? I have always found this DB Cooper subject fascinating from the day it happened. I also believe he did not jump over any mountainous terrain. Your aero analysis supports that. Man, that yellow Cub sure is nice! Pek771, Thanks again. That Cub was completely overhauled and recovered just before it was donated to the museum about 1975. The donor lived in the Houston area if I remember correctly. My last flight in it was a two hour solo on Christmas Eve 1950. The engine in it now is a Continental but it had a Lycoming when I flew it. The cause of the engine failure was that the idle mixture control was out of adjustment and the flight instructor and I were apparently the only two people at that airport who weren't aware of that. We were to practice spins and when I completely closed the throttle during the spin entry the engine quit and the prop stopped. The instructor took over and put the plane into a vertical dive, the prop did rotate a few times but the engine would not catch. Hence, the landing in a pasture with no damage. Actually, it was an educational experience for me. Georger has checked into the rubber bank question, if I remember correctly, and maybe he will elaborate on that. But based on my personal experience, I have had similar rubber bands that didn't last 8 years in my closet. And my guess is that the rubber bands and the money were not in the water for anywhere close to 8 years, maybe a few months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #24574 August 6, 2011 I read a little article today from a person who was a PAX on Flight 305 and it reminded me of the Tricloptic viewpoint I have on things. Yes, I realize this condition is unique to me thus making me a freak. The first vision existing in my mind’s eye and what I expect when it comes to air travel priced in the mid two digit range. Being greeted by a pair of smartly dressed aircrew would be nice before ‘Indonesian Tina’ guides me to my Business Class Jacuzzi. This is still a Part 135 operation so I would have to endure the usual FAA required safety briefing. The Flight Attendant demonstrating how to remove her uniform in case of fire, where to attach the nitrous mask, use restraint equipment and of course a reminder of the available punishments for various activities in the lavatory. I know, we’ve all been there a thousand times so let’s move on. Next is the Hollywood treatment or media saturation that comes from a lifetime of photosynthesizing commercial broadcasts in my living room. Say something enough and it becomes fact at some point. Cooper wanting that gear down as proof he knew aircraft. Well all the photos I’ve seen of DC-9s and 727s with Cooper minions diving out the back have the gear up. Same for military and skydiving operations except for those who fly things made by Shorts or Cessna. For some reason we want to believe there is high drama in situations where there may be very little, if any. Well it looks like I picked a bad week to stop mainlining heroin and reading about DB Cooper. Here’s that article that represents the ‘third view’: http://livermore.patch.com/articles/livermore-man-recaps-encounter-with-db-cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pek771 0 #24575 August 6, 2011 Thanks again, Robert99! This rubber band thing has always been a sticking point to me. Maybe the money was also paper banded by the bank, but then you have glue decomposition on those bands. Someone put the money in the river intentionally is my best guess. 40 years is a long time to find nothing, with half the world and the FBI looking for anything remotely resembling a clue. I suppose if, by this time, Cooper has passed on, he is thumbing his nose at J. Edgar Hoover every chance he gets! I didn't read all of this thread...it is pretty long. I suppose it could be culled down to about 100 pages easily enough to be the Readers Digest version. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
