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QuoteAgain: just because cooper's body has not been found, does not mean it is not out there. Harder to find than a plane and look how long that can take even when you know when to search.
I think vicki's circumstantial evidence around Mel is strong, certainly stronger than some of the other rubbish that gets spouted here, and do not understand why the FBI do not at least do a fingerprint check.
I wonder what Carr thinks of Mel... Such a pity he got chased away by Xx Xxxxx.
I did not chase Carr away - he hung himself with the comics and other things he was given privately about Weber - he never searched.
It is up to the FBI to make the call to investigate or not investigate the same as with Weber. I have NO pull with the FBI or anyone else about who is investigated or not. I have NEVER talked to the FBI about any subject other than Duane.
I dismiss other subject in the thread far less than others do. I have never attacked Vickie about Mel nor do I attack Blevins about Christiansen. I state my opinion and not as strongly as you guys do your opinions about me or Duane.
Is this a HATE Jo forum?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Just to labor the point: re the possibility that Cooper died on the jump, the most common 'objection' to this theory was that nobody had just disappeared, someone would have missed them etc etc.
Well, Mel just disappeared.
And Jo, I have said this before: we are not as stupid or gullible as you seem to think we are.
Well, Mel just disappeared.
And Jo, I have said this before: we are not as stupid or gullible as you seem to think we are.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Quote
If you read the transcript you know no meals were
served - meals were requested by the crew at SEA
and brought on board prior to taking off from SEA.
Did Cooper eat his meal before parachuting?
One strange remark H is credited with saying
is that 'the hijacker might be a food service worker'.
It seems a strange remark, until you know about
the Sky Chef matches Cooper produced. What
happened to the matches?
Did Geof mention the galley?
Georger I hope you remember that I have told the story that the ex-wife told me and that Duane told me also. For 2 wks Duane and his wife of the time worked for a caterer who delivered meals to the planes.
My memory won't let me remember where this was tonight because I am very tired. It is in my notes of my conversations with the ex-wife. It would have been between 1962 and 1969.
It would have been CA. or Denver, Co or Atlanta, GA. They did this for 2 wks. If Sky Chef has their old employment records she probably used her last name. God that would be a miracle if any company had the records of employee that far back.
It was in Denver that Duane told me the story about this. That was the day he described every plane we could see - the names of the planes and who made them. It was this same time he told me about deliveries being made from the a stairway beneath one of the planes.
He did NOT call it an Aft stairway.
This recollection was in 1978 or 1979 while we lived in the Denver area.
I told this story to Ralph Himmelsbach during the early yrs before I went Public in 2000.
I also told this to Doug Pasternac and others and I believe in this thread.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Mr.Green 0
QuoteIs this a HATE Jo forum?
Jo, you know i'm not part of this. I'll keep looking for the smoking gun on my end as I'm sure you will.
Mr.Green 0
In or about 3 hours I will make the trip into the city(1hour20 minutes)for a doctors appointment. After the appointment I will attempt to locate the Skyjack book. Any suggestions? Wal Mart? Borders? Target? etc...Also just how many posters are refferenced in this book? Will this be worth my money or am I better off reading DZ?
EVickiW 0
QuoteIn or about 3 hours I will make the trip into the city(1hour20 minutes)for a doctors appointment. After the appointment I will attempt to locate the Skyjack book. Any suggestions? Wal Mart? Borders? Target? etc...Also just how many posters are refferenced in this book? Will this be worth my money or am I better off reading DZ?
Try Borders first. If the book is not in stock ask if you can order it and send it to your home.
If that is not an option, try Walmart, as well as Target, if the book is not available at their stores which they may not be (the websites say online only) then order online (wait for it).
When at Walmart or Target purchase a gift card and order it online once you arrive home.
Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
Farflung 0
All this talk about Holland, Cheesecakes and Hot Nuns can appear to have nothing to do with Cooper on the surface, but they all serve as parables to the sins of pride, vanity and that other one.
What does Holland have to do with Cooper? A chant heard from jezebels since the dawn of time. Reading those passages closely will reveal how the most banal of activities can foster some of the most ferocious arrogance. I was too cool for school and already knew all about parking lots. Wrong.
Gee whiz, are there a few people who know so much about Cooper that they come off like some American monkey struggling with a parking lot? We’ll never know because those that need the lesson most also protest the message the most. Go ahead read back, you will see this again and again.
Now 377 and Vicki are talking about nuns like the Catholics have a strangle hold on them. Well all one has to do is look at where Dr. Hunter S. Thompson received his credentials and prepare to set your faces at stunned.
That’s right, his alma matter was none other than the Universal Life Church which offers ordinations along with doctorates.
Of course there are requirements like a name, address and email but please note; they do NOT ordain via the computer.
There are no fees, the title is for life, one of your choosing (Smoking Sister 'Your name here') and there is no requirement for a specific faith. All of it is 100% legal and legitimate through and through.
So lookie, lookie here’s the answer for Hot Nuns and those who are merely dreaming of becoming a Hot Nun sans the vow of poverty and that other one.
Now there is finally a place where Hot Nuns can join without the restrictions of prayer, deprivations or that other thing. Just slip on some Doc Martens, fishnet stockings, halter habit and enter The Vati-Farf to experience true inner peace.
I hope everyone learned something about problem solving and how some subjects can actually offer a different perspective which may lead to a solution much quicker. Like finding a way for Hot Nuns to not be an oxymoron and fully integrated into society. I say they have been shunned long enough.
What does Holland have to do with Cooper? A chant heard from jezebels since the dawn of time. Reading those passages closely will reveal how the most banal of activities can foster some of the most ferocious arrogance. I was too cool for school and already knew all about parking lots. Wrong.
Gee whiz, are there a few people who know so much about Cooper that they come off like some American monkey struggling with a parking lot? We’ll never know because those that need the lesson most also protest the message the most. Go ahead read back, you will see this again and again.
Now 377 and Vicki are talking about nuns like the Catholics have a strangle hold on them. Well all one has to do is look at where Dr. Hunter S. Thompson received his credentials and prepare to set your faces at stunned.
That’s right, his alma matter was none other than the Universal Life Church which offers ordinations along with doctorates.
Of course there are requirements like a name, address and email but please note; they do NOT ordain via the computer.
There are no fees, the title is for life, one of your choosing (Smoking Sister 'Your name here') and there is no requirement for a specific faith. All of it is 100% legal and legitimate through and through.
So lookie, lookie here’s the answer for Hot Nuns and those who are merely dreaming of becoming a Hot Nun sans the vow of poverty and that other one.
Now there is finally a place where Hot Nuns can join without the restrictions of prayer, deprivations or that other thing. Just slip on some Doc Martens, fishnet stockings, halter habit and enter The Vati-Farf to experience true inner peace.
I hope everyone learned something about problem solving and how some subjects can actually offer a different perspective which may lead to a solution much quicker. Like finding a way for Hot Nuns to not be an oxymoron and fully integrated into society. I say they have been shunned long enough.
How did Cooper get to Portland? If it was a flight wouldn't fellow fliers have stated that they saw this person after the case hit the news? I just assumed he had a car somewhere in the area and walked to the Portland airport and was planning to get back to the car to pick up the loot and evidence. I wouldn't think he would want to bury that stuff. He had to come back for the cash anyway. Burying would be messy and at night you can't tell what a mess you left for FBI to find. It would also muddy his clothing.
I just got sucked into this by the recent news story so I'm sorry if I ask anything that has been hashed over and over. I read some details and it conflicted with what I thought happened.
The cash reported as 3 bundles seemed odd to me that they would travel down the river together and end up on the same spot. The dredging does seem to answer some of the contradictions of the cash find
. Tena Bar seems far from the flight path but I'm not sure which way the wind was blowing. The placard was found well north of Lake Merwin so maybe it popped out at 8pm when Cooper opened the staircase? Was pilot in error when he assumed Cooper jumped at 8:13 over Lewis River? The Columbia seems quite a bit south of there and wouldn't the Columbia have to be his crash spot if all of the cash ended up in the drink along with Cooper himself? If Cooper lived maybe he tossed the whole 200G in a brief case off a bridge over the Columbia once he found out bills were actually marked?
The rational manner of Cooper during the hijack makes me think that this is a guy who knew how to jump. Its a rather big part of the plan. I assumed he was military to do this at night and not be put off by bad weather. But, you can say the whole enterprise itself calls into question his mental state...hijacking a plane with a bomb threat and all.
I just got sucked into this by the recent news story so I'm sorry if I ask anything that has been hashed over and over. I read some details and it conflicted with what I thought happened.
The cash reported as 3 bundles seemed odd to me that they would travel down the river together and end up on the same spot. The dredging does seem to answer some of the contradictions of the cash find
. Tena Bar seems far from the flight path but I'm not sure which way the wind was blowing. The placard was found well north of Lake Merwin so maybe it popped out at 8pm when Cooper opened the staircase? Was pilot in error when he assumed Cooper jumped at 8:13 over Lewis River? The Columbia seems quite a bit south of there and wouldn't the Columbia have to be his crash spot if all of the cash ended up in the drink along with Cooper himself? If Cooper lived maybe he tossed the whole 200G in a brief case off a bridge over the Columbia once he found out bills were actually marked?
The rational manner of Cooper during the hijack makes me think that this is a guy who knew how to jump. Its a rather big part of the plan. I assumed he was military to do this at night and not be put off by bad weather. But, you can say the whole enterprise itself calls into question his mental state...hijacking a plane with a bomb threat and all.
Orange1 0
QuoteQuoteIs this a HATE Jo forum?
Jo, you know i'm not part of this. I'll keep looking for the smoking gun on my end as I'm sure you will.
Nobody hates Jo. But this is her response to people pointing out the many flaws in her argument.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
pek771 0
New guy here again. I thought the premise of the Gagarin story was interesting. I also think the premise of The Beverly Hillbillies was the best idea ever for TV, and that DBC jumped into an empty field west of the Columbia and walked away.
And, further, I have reasoned rubber bands may last indefinitely in cold, dark water. It is the air and sunlight that kills them.
Has there ever been any trace of the money other than the found money on Tena Bar?
And, further, I have reasoned rubber bands may last indefinitely in cold, dark water. It is the air and sunlight that kills them.
Has there ever been any trace of the money other than the found money on Tena Bar?
Jo I don't care about your limits aparently you have none to begin with. Just look how your story has grown over the years. Orange one I do agree with you on Vicki's Father. Yes a body is harder to find than that of larger objects especially in the area he is thought to have landed. I relayed this story once before . A friend of mine By the name of Johnson found a skull back in the 80's it belonged to a man that had crashed there back in the 30's. I've found many strange things out there dating back to the late 1800's .Blevins I'm glad you were able to hook up with Geof He's a Good friend I talked to him yesterday and told him a couple of people from the forum might drop in on him . Did Susan Gilmore from the Seattle Times show up she said she might.Did Bruce Smith make it. Glad your conversation was productive. Jerry
Hello,
Thanks for asking questions that go back to basics.
There are a number of good stories that connect factual dots with theory dots.
The original Kenny Christensen article written by Gray was plausible. Blevins attempt to dig deeper is honorable. Gray's current work provides insight into other suspects and complications that get in the way of a resolution.
The nature of Marla, Vicki and Jo's directly personal connection to their own suspects is understandable and their inquiries credible.
Others have made their own investments in the forum and/or the actual investigation. I have some experience with other watching crowd sourcing "food fights" yet I do wonder what is a good way to keep the discussion on track.
Perhaps too boring?
Farflung's tangents into driving and parking where the yellow boots in Amsterdam cost you a small fortune tempt me to talk about my experience, but then I might be tempted to relate other stories of the ridiculous and sublime. Now, there's a reminder of Snow's shenanigans.
Mr. Green goes against many tides with a stance of authority and reason. I have no clue where he gets such an authoritative position, but I do remember that Larry Carr was assertive - and yet got a few details mixed up :)
The placard and 1980 money finds are two anchored moorings of puzzle pieces. There appear to have been missteps in the heat of the moment as to what the actual plane location was via the pilots perspective versus the FBI's original locus of search - and institutionalized into the evidence evaluation.
The sketches and physical description issues are subject to all the hazards that have been discussed.
The fingerprint and DNA samples appear to be precarious also.
Yet at the heart of the current revelations is Tina Mucklow.
Did those Sky Chef matches come from Tina or Cooper or somewhere else?
Is Tina's brother-in-law really a retired FBI agent? If so, what influence would that have on the books previously written by other FBI agents with very different accounts?
Was Tina so traumatized by this event that her life has been impaired?
I can see there is more to come in this story.
Thanks for asking questions that go back to basics.
There are a number of good stories that connect factual dots with theory dots.
The original Kenny Christensen article written by Gray was plausible. Blevins attempt to dig deeper is honorable. Gray's current work provides insight into other suspects and complications that get in the way of a resolution.
The nature of Marla, Vicki and Jo's directly personal connection to their own suspects is understandable and their inquiries credible.
Others have made their own investments in the forum and/or the actual investigation. I have some experience with other watching crowd sourcing "food fights" yet I do wonder what is a good way to keep the discussion on track.
Perhaps too boring?
Farflung's tangents into driving and parking where the yellow boots in Amsterdam cost you a small fortune tempt me to talk about my experience, but then I might be tempted to relate other stories of the ridiculous and sublime. Now, there's a reminder of Snow's shenanigans.
Mr. Green goes against many tides with a stance of authority and reason. I have no clue where he gets such an authoritative position, but I do remember that Larry Carr was assertive - and yet got a few details mixed up :)
The placard and 1980 money finds are two anchored moorings of puzzle pieces. There appear to have been missteps in the heat of the moment as to what the actual plane location was via the pilots perspective versus the FBI's original locus of search - and institutionalized into the evidence evaluation.
The sketches and physical description issues are subject to all the hazards that have been discussed.
The fingerprint and DNA samples appear to be precarious also.
Yet at the heart of the current revelations is Tina Mucklow.
Did those Sky Chef matches come from Tina or Cooper or somewhere else?
Is Tina's brother-in-law really a retired FBI agent? If so, what influence would that have on the books previously written by other FBI agents with very different accounts?
Was Tina so traumatized by this event that her life has been impaired?
I can see there is more to come in this story.
Afrdohgts: How did Cooper get to portland. No one realy knows. Some think it was a conecting flight others believe it was by Taxi some believe he Hitchhiked others believe he was droped off by a friend. My personal belief is it is anyones guess.Brian Ingram is the only one that has found any money related to the crime. How it got there is a matter of opinion. I have mine and of course friends of mine like Geoger , 377,ect: have there Idea's I believe that nothing but death would have seperated Cooper from his money any one that desperate would Die to maintain contact with the money. Its proven history of all Thiefs when this risks are death. Still others have different beliefs for diferent reasons. The flight path that was published was not the actual flight path the the aircraft had taken. Here again it depends on who you wish to believe. The placard location realy has very little bearing on the jump location. How the money got to the columbia river is a matter of debate.I supose that there might be some people that believe a wind tunnel picked it up from where it originally landed and then droped it in the columbia river. Or maybe it landed on a train then fell off near the Columbia river. There again a Eagle could have picked it up with thoughts of using it for a nest and droped it there. Personally I believe that it came down the Washougal watershed to the Columbia as suggested by the ARMY Corps of Egineers. As to who Cooper was I believe he was a desperate man with a history as a criminal. I believe he died the night he jumped. I believe the perfect suspect is that of a male that has not been seen or heard from since the night of the hyjacking.Which does give creedence to Vicki's suspect. Jerry
Orange1 0
Afraid of heights ... about as transparent as Ckret 
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
AncestralManor. Tina is not at the heart of the investigation for identification confirmation. And the composite drawing now being used and the only one being used is the first one put together imidiately after the hyjacking by all 4 stewardeses.not the one Jo uses as a avatar.Ths is Info directly from Curtis Ng at 1630 hrs last thursday.Seattle Office FBI.I discussed this with him after receiving a phone call from him last thursday 11 Aug . Jerry
377 22
pek771 wrote:
pek771 may have a point here. West Coast Dungeness crab pots (commercial crab traps) have their steel rebar framework wrapped in rubber stripping. The rubber cracks and erodes when left in the sun which is why the pots are tarped or stored indoors in the off season.
Sometimes when trolling or trawling you snag old crab pots that got lost or had the buoy lines cut by pasing boats. Some are so old that the steel is crumbling but the rubber is still good, no cracks no erosion. It isnt latex rubber bands, just strips of the same material tire inner tubes are made of.
On the other hand, sometimes rubber bands self destruct when totally shielded from sunlight. I had an old rig that had been packed up but not jumped in a decade. It had all new rubber bands installed when last packed. I opened it to inspect it and about 40% of the rubber bands had rotted into a gooey mess.
377
QuoteAnd, further, I have reasoned rubber bands may last indefinitely in cold, dark water. It is the air and sunlight that kills them.
pek771 may have a point here. West Coast Dungeness crab pots (commercial crab traps) have their steel rebar framework wrapped in rubber stripping. The rubber cracks and erodes when left in the sun which is why the pots are tarped or stored indoors in the off season.
Sometimes when trolling or trawling you snag old crab pots that got lost or had the buoy lines cut by pasing boats. Some are so old that the steel is crumbling but the rubber is still good, no cracks no erosion. It isnt latex rubber bands, just strips of the same material tire inner tubes are made of.
On the other hand, sometimes rubber bands self destruct when totally shielded from sunlight. I had an old rig that had been packed up but not jumped in a decade. It had all new rubber bands installed when last packed. I opened it to inspect it and about 40% of the rubber bands had rotted into a gooey mess.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377: I believe Tom Kaye did a investigation on this subject. Geoger would Know more about the results I think they worked on it together. I do know there is a pack of bills in the little washougal and the washougal with ruber bands holding them together.Just waiting for someone to find them. Jerry
Orange1 0
QuoteOn the other hand, sometimes rubber bands self destruct when totally shielded from sunlight. I had an old rig that had been packed up but not jumped in a decade. It had all new rubber bands installed when last packed. I opened it to inspect it and about 40% of the rubber bands had rotted into a gooey mess.
377
maybe not sunlight, but was the rig exposed to heat?
erm, can one of you chemist types help me out - I did a search for "rubber degradation" and this came up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_degradation
How much of what we call "rubber" is actually natural rubber and how much is really polymer?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Farflung 0
skyjack71 rebukes Gray’s page 49 with:
“The Fart Story is totally out of character for Duane. I do NOT believe that ever happened. I was able to reach a former employer and he also told me it was out of character.”
I must admit some skepticism associated with Duane’s odd, lifelong, protectionist view of his cookbook with a cheesecake recipe and water damaged photo of a prepubescent girl. Gray’s book certainly sheds more light on the subject than I had imagined.
It has been publicly published that Duane had uncontrolled flatulence of such a degree that apparently there were records kept of this by a past employer. I know, I know push the fast forward button because we all have heard this a thousand times before.
Yet I feel some review is required in regard to researching a person’s passed gas histories. I know every time I get yet another relative or spouse of a suspected ‘tooter’ calling work to confirm the frequency and volume of certain digestive byproducts, they must be suffering from some tremendous pressure and simply want relief.
Clearly Jo has taken that first painful step in the direction of finding or confirming the source of Duane’s non-verbal vocalizations. Heartbreak can be just around the corner when you discover no matter how much effort is expended you still can’t quite put your finger on it.
It’s so easy to judge someone when this sort of social atrocity has been seared into a person’s reputation. Did Gray take the time to check San Quentin Prison, Leavenworth or the Colorado State Prison to see if Duane had a history of meting out cruel or unusual punishments to his cellmates? I would assume not.
I for one would not want that sort of behavioral stain to follow me around after so many decades of flawless conduct at these state sponsored charm schools.
“The Fart Story is totally out of character for Duane. I do NOT believe that ever happened. I was able to reach a former employer and he also told me it was out of character.”
I must admit some skepticism associated with Duane’s odd, lifelong, protectionist view of his cookbook with a cheesecake recipe and water damaged photo of a prepubescent girl. Gray’s book certainly sheds more light on the subject than I had imagined.
It has been publicly published that Duane had uncontrolled flatulence of such a degree that apparently there were records kept of this by a past employer. I know, I know push the fast forward button because we all have heard this a thousand times before.
Yet I feel some review is required in regard to researching a person’s passed gas histories. I know every time I get yet another relative or spouse of a suspected ‘tooter’ calling work to confirm the frequency and volume of certain digestive byproducts, they must be suffering from some tremendous pressure and simply want relief.
Clearly Jo has taken that first painful step in the direction of finding or confirming the source of Duane’s non-verbal vocalizations. Heartbreak can be just around the corner when you discover no matter how much effort is expended you still can’t quite put your finger on it.
It’s so easy to judge someone when this sort of social atrocity has been seared into a person’s reputation. Did Gray take the time to check San Quentin Prison, Leavenworth or the Colorado State Prison to see if Duane had a history of meting out cruel or unusual punishments to his cellmates? I would assume not.
I for one would not want that sort of behavioral stain to follow me around after so many decades of flawless conduct at these state sponsored charm schools.
Farflung: What do you sugest we do to combat this growing concern for our tooting society.Great post!! Jerry
pek771 0
There seem three possible AND probable outcomes assuming Cooper jumped; he opened and walked away, he opened and perished in the landing, he didn't open.
If he opened and walked away, he became the most secretive fugitive ever.
The next parts require us to imagine a search is being conducted in some manner:
If he opened and perished, remnants surely would have been found if over land. If he put down in water, there is still a high probability something would have been found.
If he didn't open (a no-pull?), then he hit the surface of the Earth hard. I assume his terminal velocity is upwards of 170 ft/sec, so he would have large inertial forces. Would he necessarily be found if he impacted a tree, even with a cursory glance? If he hit an open area, could he have been buried? If he hit water, one would think some remnants would have been spotted. I am unfamiliar with the Columbia, so I can't say with any degree of certainty if nautical traffic would have noticed anything. Same applies to any of the other bodies of water there.
I skipped over the less probable stuff.
My father told me that when he was a kid in the early 1930's, some flying barnstormers came to town. They had a parachutist in the troupe. During the airshow at Christies Airport (gone but not forgotten), the parachutist was a no-pull. Supposedly, the kids all ran to the semi-swampy area and found him buried upright to his chest. My father also walked to school seven miles each way, uphill. As I did.
If he opened and walked away, he became the most secretive fugitive ever.
The next parts require us to imagine a search is being conducted in some manner:
If he opened and perished, remnants surely would have been found if over land. If he put down in water, there is still a high probability something would have been found.
If he didn't open (a no-pull?), then he hit the surface of the Earth hard. I assume his terminal velocity is upwards of 170 ft/sec, so he would have large inertial forces. Would he necessarily be found if he impacted a tree, even with a cursory glance? If he hit an open area, could he have been buried? If he hit water, one would think some remnants would have been spotted. I am unfamiliar with the Columbia, so I can't say with any degree of certainty if nautical traffic would have noticed anything. Same applies to any of the other bodies of water there.
I skipped over the less probable stuff.
My father told me that when he was a kid in the early 1930's, some flying barnstormers came to town. They had a parachutist in the troupe. During the airshow at Christies Airport (gone but not forgotten), the parachutist was a no-pull. Supposedly, the kids all ran to the semi-swampy area and found him buried upright to his chest. My father also walked to school seven miles each way, uphill. As I did.
YOU JERRY will have to read the book and ADDRESS whatever your BEEF is with him. I only told you WHAT was said. I didn't make the words up. They are in the book.
AGAIN I told you TO STOP the name calling. I don't think you would be very happy about some of the things I could say about you Jerry. In fact I would never stoop that low...I will not allow myself to stoop to your level, but I warn you I do have my limits.
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