DB Cooper

[377 22]

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On the other hand, sometimes rubber bands self destruct when totally shielded from sunlight. I had an old rig that had been packed up but not jumped in a decade. It had all new rubber bands installed when last packed. I opened it to inspect it and about 40% of the rubber bands had rotted into a gooey mess.

377

I dont think the rig ever got over 85 degrees F. It was indoors in a dry windowless closet in the SF bay area.

377

maybe not sunlight, but was the rig exposed to heat?

erm, can one of you chemist types help me out - I did a search for "rubber degradation" and this came up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_degradation

How much of what we call "rubber" is actually natural rubber and how much is really polymer?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

I disagree that remains would 'surely' have been found. (there is also a theory that has been put forward that remains were found, and buried/otherwise disposed of and the money taken by the finder But I prefer occam who gives us plenty of examples of searches that miss what they are looking for for months, years or decades.)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Afrdohgts 0]

Thanks Jerry. I want to untangle myself from this one but I don't know if I can. Perhaps a few more details. I won't dispute a Cooper death but man...nothing besides that cash and placard just makes me want to think he might have made it.
If the guy had a plan in the air there must've been one for the ground and that's why I can't shake thinking he had a vehicle somewhere that he would hike back to and then retrieve the cash, chutes, briefcase because you wouldn't want to be walking around with that stuff. Its too bulky as well.
Was Cooper being too cocky by wearing a suit? What would've been the difference if he was wearing a George Costanza puffy winter jacket? I suppose I would wear a suit to my own funeral but then why ask for the hijacking note back?

Orange, I am Afraid of Heights. I have been up in planes though...not without some nerves but I can do it. Had a near miss in a Cessna.

[377 22]

Farflung, dont get distracted by the flatulence decoy. It's really about Kool Aid. It played a deadly role in Jonestown and even Jo admits Duane spent his golden years stealing big quantities of it for reasons she cannot fathom.

Jim Jones has yet to be linked to Duane Weber, but JFK, RFK and MLK have. Its probably just a matter of time. There is a common link, asassination. Jim Jones' crew shot and killed Congressman Leo Ryan.

The puzzle pieces are all there. Who will assemble them?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[pek771 0]

orange1, I agree that there have been searches which have proved fruitless, such as the one I read from here regarding the crash in the Andes many years ago. So, true, there is no guarantee any remnants were ever found.

If they were found, say by a hunter, the he became the most secretive person ever.

I was stationed at Elmendorf in Anchorage. The area around the inlet was littered with crash remnants from years gone by, but these were usually aircraft hulks, or parts...not bio-degradable like we are.

I didn't mention the less probable stuff, such as maybe he didn't jump where the FBI thought he did, and no one searched for him. I know we all have this view of the FBI as infallible, but I have my doubts about the effort on this investigation.

[Farflung 0]

Now there’s a ‘new’ clue in the form of a matchbook which had ‘Sky Chef’ printed on the cover. Is there a picture of this artifact or source of this information?

Cuz a little sumthin sumthin may be missing from this here name.

The centralized kitchen system for airlines has been used for some time and with good reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGR65CXaNA&feature=related

They have been equally ubiquitous and transparent to the flying consumer for many years.

But the name is ‘Sky ChefS’ which currently operates as an airline supplier.

Naturally when I read that I thought of a much more manly man product available across the country from Texaco called ‘Sky ChIef’:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BSaL-flDHc

Which one is the correct match to this burning question?

Or is it nun of the above?

[skyjack71 0]

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Farflung, dont get distracted by the flatulence decoy. It's really about Kool Aid. It played a deadly role in Jonestown and even Jo admits Duane spent his golden years stealing big quantities of it for reasons she cannot fathom.

Jim Jones has yet to be linked to Duane Weber, but JFK, RFK and MLK have. Its probably just a matter of time. There is a common link, asassination. Jim Jones' crew shot and killed Congressman Leo Ryan.

The puzzle pieces are all there. Who will assemble them?

377

Seems like all you guys do now is have a pissing game about who can tell the worst story they can find in the way of negative information..regarding any suspect.

Grays book is interesting, but he really should have used a Cooper knowledgable fact checker such as Sluggo and someone else to double check that (Sluggo like everyone else will hear something just a little differently than others. This could have avoided some obvious mistakes...about subjects and crime scene information).

The hotel the tie was taken from was NOT the Muehlebach Hotel in Kansas City. That was later.

The tie was taken in Jefferson, MO from a tall glass Hotel for which I have no name. It was the Hotel Bobby Kennedy stayed at before his speech in Ks and just as he had come off of the Kentucky tour...a tour on which he wore a clip on tie and sometimes NO tie at all.

Kennedy had planned to do the Ky tour into the very poor heart of Ky with only a very small group of people. But the word got out and the entourage became a spectacle unseen before in those parts of Ky. Kennedy was VERY sensitive to the fact these people could bearly afford to live - and he was sensitive to their needs. He did NOT make a spectacle of himself by flaunting his families wealth with designer ties on that tour. He endeared himself to the hearts of the common people and had he not have been killed would have been our next president.

Only a lunatic could possible link Weber or Cooper to Jim Jones
and Ryan - we all know who did that and it was not me - we will call him XXXXX - the word we dare not say in this thread - SSHhhh!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

THE FBI NEEDS TO BE AWARE THAT:

[BLUE]DUANE WEBERS RECORDS SHOW A SCAR ON ONE OF HIS HANDS[/BLUE]

AND THERE ARE STILL THOSE ALIVE WHO WILL STATED THAT

[BLUE]DUANE WEBER USED A MONEY CLIP[/BLUE].

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Afrodohgts:Sure there are those that believe he had his escape thought out I do not. If he had a good plan he would have been dressed far better than he was he also would have picked a better time of year and day. The only plan this man had was to attempt to survive the jump and hang on to the money. Remember he was shocked that he got the money he requested and of course there was the chosen chutes he used the only one that he choose out of the 4 that would have opened had been modified and was not user friendly it required a knowledge of how to open it quickly that only the owner Knew.Then the added weight of the money would have thrown him into a spin that only experience Jumpers could have controlled.Along with the fact that he lost his shoes his bearing depth perception even his position direction while falling. Just to mention a few. This mans choice of chutes was not that of a experienced Jumper.Yet there are those that believe that he landed in a bowl of marshmellows and was escorted to freedom. Still there are no new clue's that has apeared since Brian found the money. Except maybe one.Sorry Farflung it wasn't the matchbook.I think transportation was not part of his plan. And why should it have been he was a thief he could steal a car very easily back then remember cars were easy to steal they didn't have any of the theft protection we have today you could open a car door very quickly open the hood run a wire from the positive post of the battery to the coil cross the starter sylinoid and the car would start this was common knowledge back then. Thats what most people would do when they lost the keys to there cars.It took a lot less planning for a robbery than it does today all it took by then was a will to get away with it and in his case no fear of heights would have been a plus Jerry

[Afrdohgts 0]

I can't help thinking that Cooper was special forces or something of that order as a regular weekend warrior parachutist would've been deterred by conditions. I grabbed this little book off my shelf : The Special Forces Endurance Techniques by Chriss McNabb which is just a little overview of special forces methods.
The opening quote from a samuri warrior struck me: in the martial arts, the mental state should remain the same as normal. In ordinary circumstances as well as when practising martial arts, let there be no change in the state of mind- with the mind open and direct, neither tense nor unfocused, centring the thoughts so that there is no imbalance, calmly relax your mind, and savour this moment of peace.
p142 Combat skills: The psychological challenge of undercover operations begins from the moment of deployment. For covert operations, night insertion is typical, often by parachute or helicopter. This presents its own set of mental challenges. If entering the contested territory by parachute, special forces often do so by one of two challenging methods of parachute technique which bring their own psychological problems.
The first is high altitude high opening (HAHO)....
By contrast, High altitude Low-Opening (HALO) parachuting sees the solider dropped at a similar altitude or higher, through this time he freefalls for several minutes and only deploys the parachute in the last 2,000ft of the jump. This gives an extremely rapid deployment method.
Both techniques pose psychological problems. The oxygen levels at 25,000ft and over are very low indeed, and temperatures can be -50F. Lack of oxygen and severe cold can induce feelings of sluggishness, disconnection from reality, unconsciousness, confusion, and blurred vision. All these are anathema to the sharp mind required at this dangerous moment of the operation, so enough oxygen should be carried on both types of jump in order to supply the soldier to beneath 10,000ft. Clothing should also be extremely insulated.
Landing in the operational area by parachute, or by the much noisier helicopter deployment, requires a switch of mind. Unless the situation demands it, the soldier should spend a few minutes still and silent in his new environment, adjusting to sights and sounds, and becoming familiar with his operational world. At night in particular, the soldier's senses are placed under acute strain. The human eye takes about 30 minutes to adjust fully from normal daylight to night vision, even longer if the soldier has been exposed to bright sunlight in the daytime(which explains why special forces soldiers in bright conditions tend to stay indoors or wear very DARK SUNGLASSES....

[JerryThomas 0]

This point of yours is exactly why I do not believe he was SF had he of been he would have made better choice's of how and when he jumped.His disguise would have been a great deal different. His execution of this crime would have been closser to that of McCoys. I fogot out of the 4 chutes he was given only 3 would open the 4th was marked with a X whitch meant it was not operational all military personel Knew this because all items in the military supply system that was considered in not working condition was marked with a X. Cooper choose one of the chutes that had the X on it. Jerry

[Afrdohgts 0]

Stealing a car chances more law enforcement attention.
At this point my opinion is that he had a vehicle somewhere(I don't think he flew in from elsewhere otherwise you would have people coming forward saying they saw him due to the notoriety of the case) since time was of the essence and he probably did not want to leave any trail behind as well as not looking suspicious carrying around a sack of cash, briefcase, and chutes. Too many items to walk around with. He could've buried the chutes but I think that was too messy for one who had a good attention to detail.
I won't dispute death as the result but this guy did not flinch in the face of these conditions. The jump is a huge part. He may have even welcomed the dummy chute since it would suggest failure. If this guy was coming out of experience in Nam then this jump may be less stressful than one where you'd get your ass shot off.
As far as loners go I know almost no one that wouldn't be missed. An employer or landlord even? Complete loners are rare and many of them are that way because they are not capable of dealing with others/situations.
Perhaps this homeless guy I know but because of mental problems he wouldn't be capable of this.

[JerryThomas 0]

Back then and in that area it could have been hours in a lot of cases days before it was reported. Besides there were cars reported as stolen in that area at that time. It would have been anyones guess as to which stolen car would have been Cooper or even on what hour or Day. Jerry

[EVickiW 0]

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As far as loners go I know almost no one that wouldn't be missed. An employer or landlord even? Complete loners are rare and many of them are that way because they are not capable of dealing with others/situations.

<-----Mel would not have been missed by family, friends. employer or landlord.

He had already gone missing in September 1971. He has not been heard from or seen since.

Edited to add photos........

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[JerryThomas 0]

Vicki How are you doing. You did remember to eat today right. Jerry

[EVickiW 0]

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Vicki How are you doing. You did remember to eat today right. Jerry

Yes Jerry...Nicole took me out for lunch at Sawatdee in St. Paul. We had Green Curry with Chicken and Coconut Milk and Tropical Shrimp Fried Rice and I paid....wait a minute!!!!!! That little shit!!!

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

Duane at no time had a feeding tube while he was in the hospital.
To do so would only make him nausea because he had kidneys that did not work at full capacity.

Duane had been refusing the medication because he had to be clear of mind when he told the Dr. he wanted to cease any treatment. He had already been instructed on this by whoever prepared his living will.

He had been FREE of medication because he knew what he had to do. He had been refusing dialysis after the 1st few days in the hospital. Around the 10th day is when he had his "talk" with the Dr. and made his wishes known. IT was after THIS that he asked me if anyone was in the room. Thinking he wanted a cigarette I started to get them and he waved me off. We needed to talk.

This is when he told me "I'mmm Dan Cooooper" and since I didn't understand he spent several minutes trying to tell me - but, I was not hearing any of it. The Dr had said he would be gone in about 5 days but he would live for 11 days.

Duane DID NOT ask for a chaplain. I am the one who suggested he talk to the Hospital Chaplain and he was adamant - NO. Obviously they had already tried to talk to him.

I met an Army Chaplain who was at the hospital for his Mother-in-law who was in the SNF and also terminal. He volunteered and Duane agreed. When I left the 2 of them in the room Duane is talking about Belgium - I just did NOT understand. I thought Oh my God - he is lieing to a Chaplain. They spent about 30 minutes together and that is all I know about the conversation other than the Chaplain telling me Duane knew exactly what he was doing.

About 8 days later the nurses are complaining that Duane didn't seem to be failing as quickly as they expected. That afternoon I found out why.
I went to straighten his pillows and found tissue with the pills in it. He had been spitting them out. He told me WE had to talk.

He wanted to go for a ride and back to the house. He was to heavy for me to manuever. I got permission and dressed him and about that time we had a terrible storm. I took him to a covered area at the back of the Hospital door to smoke. While there a Paratrooper was also there and Duane mentioned things I do not remember - but, it was about the WAR and parajumping and the different grades and squadrons...Duane was doing all of the talking. I have often wonder WHY was there a Army paratrooper at that Hospital visiting - There is no ARMY base here.

The next day Duane still wants to go home - the storm continues to rage. They are making sure he takes the morphine by having him open his mouth so they can see if he swallowed it. Again I can get him no further than the Front door this last time. He wants to go for a ride because he had to show me something.

"Let get on down the Road, Jo - Lets get this show on the Road" - he said it loud...this is what he is shouting after I take him back to the room - he is upset we could not go home. I wrote down what he was saying at that time, so I may not have it exact from memory tonight.

Now remember this if you never remember anything I have ever told about Duane Weber - I had NO idea on that day March 27, 1995 what Cooper said on that plane in 1971.
On our anniversary on March 27th 1995 - the day before he died - I didn't know the story about Cooper.

That night the Nurses want to put a patch on his back. Duane tells them NO - he is out of the bed and on his feet - he had the strenght of a healthy man not a man about to die. He said "They are going to Kill me". He was shouting and fighting the nurse and me. I did not know at that time if they you put a morphine patch on the back that the plastic sheets would cause him to OD...or I would have STOPPED it and took him home to die.

The nurses INSISTED I go home and get some rest - I had been there 98% of the time for over 3 wks almost 4. The next morning when I got there they tell me he is going. I sit with him and he looks at me and says the strangest thing. I was writing a letter and had pen and paper in my hand.

I wrote the words.

"The mommy wants to kill the baby, The baby wants to kill the mommy Take the baby down Stairs. No, bring the baby back upstairs. I can't go till the baby gets here."

A few moments later he says "I love you" and then he started the death gurgle and his eyes glazed over. He was gone!

It is difficult reliving this, but anyone who knew him knew he was NO Coward - He was a brave man and he fought to live, but he was not dieing fast enough to suit - Hospice.

I later learned about the Patch and the plastic sheeting when a young man in that same hospital OD'd from a patch being on his back 3 or 4 yrs later. Always made me wonder, but that is something I will never know. I knew he was dying and his quality of life was non-existent. What would I want under those same circumstances?

This is WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON MARCH 28, 1995. He faced death without fear - but, he wanted to go on HIS terms. I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me for 11 days. I am such a damn idiot - so dumb!

Why didn't I listen? - why didn't I get a recorder ?- WHY didn't I do these things ?- ALL Because I didn't know who DAN Coooooper was. Such a DO DO I am.

There is NO proof of my story, but, it is the truth and nothing but the truth - I told this story to family and friends BEFORE I ever knew who Dan Cooper was. It is written in my planner on that day.
I will NEVER forget those days in the hospital as long as I live.

The FBI missed something and they are so bull-headed they don't want to admit it. Damn the FBI and Damn the government for all of it secrets - Secrets that have destroyed lives.

Because the FBI cannot and will not look at the obvious - that is why I say it was a government cover-up....but, WHY? Is the FBI that stupid? No one ever actually looked at what I had or heard what I was saying.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

As far as loners go I know almost no one that wouldn't be missed. .

[Orange1 0]

377....kool-aid? Is there a Timothy Leary connection perhaps?

Jo, millions of people used money clips. Probably at least as many as wore clip-on ties.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[CooperScooper 0]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here......found out about the site while reading the new book "Skyjack".

It is great to be on a site where info on one of the greatest mysteries of all-time is kept current.

Just some thoughts:

1. We wont learn the truth by calling each other names, like we are stuck in the first grade indefinitely. Only by working together can we learn the truth. Tolerance for others opinions besides your own is a must, if you are going to advance closer to a solution to this crime.

Until we know who D.B. Cooper was / is, we DONT know who D.B. Cooper was / is.

2. Except perhaps, for Larry Carr, the FBI is not to be trusted regarding this case. They clearly have nothing to gain by concluding that Cooper survived for decades after the jump, which many believe (I'm one of them). It makes them look bad, and to the FBI, like other government agencies, image is everything. Not that the FBI should be embarrassed for not having caught Cooper....they did their best....nobody's perfect and sometimes it takes a long time to resolve a crime. Either the guy was impaled on a tree, or he had a well thought out plan and outsmarted the government. Fidel Castro has outsmarted the U.S. government for 50 years, avoiding assassination. Life goes on. The FBI shouldnt worry about their image. They should only worry about justice. As long as you conduct yourself with a passion for the truth, whatever that truth may be, and keep an open mind, rather than arbitrarily concluding something without sufficient evidence to do so (Example: The Warren Commission Report), you are to be commended.
I DO give the FBI credit for reaching out to the public for help on this case. That, along with the new book "Skyjack" and the coming 40th anniversary of the crime may shed enough light on the case to jog someone's memory, or inspire a new investigator to search for a solution to the crime.

3. The FBI SHOULD NOT let this case hang EXCLUSIVELY on the DNA evidence. The DNA is partial DNA and is 40 years old. Also, as we are learning, DNA isnt as absolute as we've been led to believe. Cross contamination, mistakes during testing, etc can give false positive results. DNA is merely a tool, like old fashioned investigating, fingerprints evidence, eyewitness interviews, etc, etc. If the FBI goes merely by DNA, in ruling ou t / in suspects, I believe that they are making a big mistake, and may allow Cooper to remain a legend for a very loooooong time to come.
The DNA MAY NOT be Cooper's. So, ruling out Kenneth Christiansen, Duane Weber, Richard McCoy, and others on DNA alone is irresponsible investigating, in my view.

4. The FBI and others say that Cooper had no chance of surviving the jump. Nonsense. The jump has been duplicated many times, and many skydivers said that they'd have no trouble doing it.
Paratroopers are trained to be so precise as to jump from a plane and land in a dixie cup if needed (not literally, but you get the point).

There is a very good chance that Cooper survived the jump.

I, like many others, believe he did survive the jump. I am open to changing that opinion if evidence comes forth that is supportive of another conclusion. I frankly have no clue what happened to Cooper. That's why, in many ways, we are still talking about the case. But, we CAN conclude certain things based on Cooper's words, actions, and the words of professional skydivers:

The man wasnt a bowery bum like Agent Himmelsbach makes him out to be. Of course, Himmelsbach also has Cooper's bones lying in or near a river somewhere, witth no proof to support his conclusion, so we cant go by what he says. Cooper knew ALOT about airplanes. That is obvious when you study his directions to the pilot regarding altitude, etc. His "unfamiliarity" with the aftstairs could have been a red herring, so as not to bring about suspicion that Cooper was connected to the airlines in some way.. Bottom line..he got them to work.

Well, I dont want to give you all eye strain, so I'll end the message. It's nice to be here. i'm looking forward to reading all of your thoughts about this case.

Best wishes

[georger 244]

His "unfamiliarity" with the aftstairs could have been a red herring, so as not to bring about suspicion that Cooper was connected to the airlines in some way.. Bottom line..he got them to work.

[BruceSmith 3]

I know we all have this view of the FBI as infallible,

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No, we don't.

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[BruceSmith 3]

For those new to the DZ forum and the DB Cooper case, I invite you to also visit my online news magazine, The Mountain News - WA.

I offer an overvierw of the case and an investigatory look at many of the mysteries of the case.

http://themountainnewswa.net/category/db-cooper/

[377 22]

Jerry Thomas wrote

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This mans choice of chutes was not that of a experienced Jumper.

I'm not so sure Jerry. Sport chutes were placarded for 150 mph max. Energy goes up as the square of velocity. Chances were good that your exit speed would exceed the stated structural limit of sport canopies. I'd have given serious thought to picking the military rig.

C9 rounds are probably one of the toughest canopies ever made. The suspension lines run all the way through the canopy up to the apex and down the other side. They are made for high speed jet ejections.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[sailshaw 0]

Georger: DB probably knew all about the Aft Airstains but did not have experience with actual deployment. If there is some difference in pressure across the door, it can be difficult to open. The Flight Attendants knew how to work it as they have actual experience. There is nothing like on the job training!

Bob