DB Cooper

[smokin99 0]

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Robert99 triggered my memory of those junior smoker ‘starter kits’ given away in airlines, restaurants and school restrooms. Attached are some images of those very things which were so very common place from yester year.

Their legacy does live on in that I’m told heroin dealers usually give away a few samples to new ‘clients’ as a way to develop brand loyalty.

I still want to see a “SKY CHEF” matchbook. I know someone will come up with a photo or an excuse, it’s just a matter of time.

I get it.
But hey, with a phrase like this one: "She offers to light the cigarette for him. The matchbook he has is blue. The words Sky Chef are on the cover. He leans in close as she flicks the cardboard stick against the strike pad and watches the sulfur fizzle into flame." "Want one?" He holds out the pack. Why not? Tina takes a butt and sticks it in her mouth. She lights it." (Taken from Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Geoffrey Gray pg 57 on Nook book edition)

Maybe he was too busy coming up with that sulfury fizzling image to include the "s" on Sky Chefs. I just can't get over that he only gave her a butt and not a whole cigarette. Maybe that's why he felt compelled to offer her a stack of bills. For being so stingy with the cigarettes.

But I'm a cynical ol hunkette and got my own back-of-the-brain niggling suspicions about Tina's role in all of this so I guess i need to shut up before I get major flamed.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

No faster had I posted the latest when I received an image from snowmman with the ‘Sky Chefs’ logo matching the ‘Sky Chef’ logo.

Which is the one from 1971? Since Sky Chefs serves virtually all airlines and airports, I would assume that Sky Chefs matchbooks would be more common than the airlines various versions. But that is just an assumption. Just like Sky Chefs matches being available in airport restaurants, bars and stores as they may have supplied consumables to those establishments as well. Again just an assumption.

[EVickiW 0]

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"She offers to light the cigarette for him. The matchbook he has is blue. The words Sky Chef are on the cover. He leans in close as she flicks the cardboard stick against the strike pad and watches the sulfur fizzle into flame." "Want one?" He holds out the pack. Why not? Tina takes a butt and sticks it in her mouth. She lights it." (Taken from Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Geoffrey Gray pg 57 on Nook book edition)

If he had the match book why would he lean in close?

IF he had the matchbook...Why did she light it?

Another missing "s"? Were these matches supplied by Tina? She lit the cigarette.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Orange1 0]

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No faster had I posted the latest when I received an image from snowmman with the ‘Sky Chefs’ logo matching the ‘Sky Chef’ logo.

Which is the one from 1971? Since Sky Chefs serves virtually all airlines and airports, I would assume that Sky Chefs matchbooks would be more common than the airlines various versions. But that is just an assumption. Just like Sky Chefs matches being available in airport restaurants, bars and stores as they may have supplied consumables to those establishments as well. Again just an assumption.

One of the links I looked at (original site, I changed the links to just the pictures cos they were too small otherwise) did mention something about the matches being available in the restaurants at airports. That must have been a nice little monopoly while it lasted!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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"She offers to light the cigarette for him. The matchbook he has is blue. The words Sky Chef are on the cover. He leans in close as she flicks the cardboard stick against the strike pad and watches the sulfur fizzle into flame." "Want one?" He holds out the pack. Why not? Tina takes a butt and sticks it in her mouth. She lights it." (Taken from Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Geoffrey Gray pg 57 on Nook book edition)

If he had the match book why would he lean in close?

IF he had the matchbook...Why did she light it?

Another missing "s"? Were these matches supplied by Tina? She lit the cigarette.

Sounds like a lovely work of fiction

Someone remind me - was this meant to have happened before or after the other passengers had left the plane?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[smokin99 0]

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Orange1 the image is from an eBay auction and simply says ‘1970s Matchbook Sky Chef’s’

Just to add to the stew of fear and discourse, I found a ‘Sky Chef’ (singular, without an S) matchbook with no provenance.

That’s all I got.

1966 - Port of Portland selects Sky Chefs, Inc. to operate the restaurant and bar service at Portland Air terminal from 5 bidders.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=peVVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EuEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4742,4161005&dq=sky+chef&hl=en

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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No faster had I posted the latest when I received an image from snowmman with the ‘Sky Chefs’ logo matching the ‘Sky Chef’ logo.

Which is the one from 1971? Since Sky Chefs serves virtually all airlines and airports, I would assume that Sky Chefs matchbooks would be more common than the airlines various versions. But that is just an assumption. Just like Sky Chefs matches being available in airport restaurants, bars and stores as they may have supplied consumables to those establishments as well. Again just an assumption.

Seems (code for assumption) the names were interchangable and/or they used the singular for their airport restaurants/bars. I see job classifieds listed for Sky Chef, Inc. and an advertisement for a new years eve special at Sky Chef restaurant at the airport. The restaurant name has the little chef logo beside it. (1967 - Good dining, wine, champagne, dancing and fun -- all for the unbelievably low price of 18.75 per couple)

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[EVickiW 0]

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The matchless investigative skills of Bruce Smith and Galen Cook are now on display on CNN. An article was posted less than an hour ago in Cnn's religion blogs page [http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/] by Thom Patterson.

You can go to that page and then work your way to the specific article.

You can also judge for yourself what these people are doing to Tina.

Robert99

I understand why Tina just wants to be left alone.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy_JXPixTRA

(Don’t worry smokin99 this won’t stick in your head like Brady Bunch or Spongebob themes….. or will it?)


Since authors have somehow become instant experts on a subject. I say this since authors are now quoted rather than the origin of their data (weird). Gray’s book has become the latest ‘grail’ a source in and of itself, a sort of Maoist Red Book for some people. In historical text, the author should not be part of the story. I want to know what accurately happened to Custer at Little Big Horn, not how the author drove to the library.

There could be an alternative to Tina striking a bunch of matches around sticks of dynamite with the blazing torch being passed to none other than Captain Scott. Quote from ‘Into the Blast’:

“Scott left the cockpit himself and headed to the rear of the plane to speak with Cooper. Several passengers turned their heads as he walked past. Scott pretended he was going to speak to a friend, so as not to alarm everyone. Taking a seat next to Cooper, he said quietly, “What’s this about a bomb?”

Transition to Gray’s ‘Skyjack’ with:

"HE (Captain Scott, my inference) offers to light the cigarette for him. The matchbook he has is blue. The words Sky Chef are on the cover. He leans in close as HE flicks the cardboard stick against the strike pad and watches the sulfur fizzle into flame." "Want one?" He holds out the pack. Why not?"

Now the gender confusion is solved (with two minor corrections) by combining the two most authoritative documents produced on DB Cooper this century. Whew that was close, now we have even more irrefutable proof that Duane was Cooper.

[smokin99 0]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy_JXPixTRA

(Don’t worry smokin99 this won’t stick in your head like Brady Bunch or Spongebob themes….. or will it?)***


lol...You were right to start with - it won't. I like Janis on some songs, but on others she just sounded like a drunk off-pitch screamer. Kind of like Graceless Slick in Germany. (Now I know I'm gonna get flamed)

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 244]

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Georger wrote

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Oxy rich environment and all that?

Typical airliner pressurization systems couldn't even achieve sea level pressure at cruising altitudes. No supplemental O2 was added to cabin air. How do you see that as oxygen rich?

377

377

Was 305 flying pressurised from PDX to SEA?
What altitude did they fly - nothing in the
Transacript? Pressure ~ altitude. The same
percentage of oxygen exists at 10k ft + as at sea
level. This flight however was flying through storms
so O3 was very likely elevated. In addition there are
those canisters of O2 directly above above where
Cooper is sitting - not a good place to be lighting up
with a fellow who has announced he has a bomb.

see -
http://www.solarstorms.org/WHOAirlines.html

[Farflung 0]

Now that Gray’s book is quoted regarding these mystery matches I have been made aware of some previous discussion on the subject with Special Agent Carr’s input from pages 72 and 73 of this thread.

Once again I think a person should decide for themselves when provided the courtesy of source information (Thanks again, snowmman).

In May of 2008, the previous telling has Tina lighting a smoke for Cooper in a much less dramatic but more realistic description. Although I would not have been opposed to reading about some Stewardess lighting a match with a steady hand which concealed her heaving chest which strained the very fasteners holding her blouse closed. I just don’t know where that sort of information would be contained in an FBI report. Thus the third generation removal via quoting Gray’s book since that may prop the next pre-plotted theory up.

Attached is another version, decide for yourself.

[smokin99 0]

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***"She offers to light the cigarette for him. The matchbook he has is blue. The words Sky Chef are on the cover. He leans in close as she flicks the cardboard stick against the strike pad and watches the sulfur fizzle into flame." "Want one?" He holds out the pack. Why not? Tina takes a butt and sticks it in her mouth. She lights it." (Taken from Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Geoffrey Gray pg 57 on Nook book edition)

If he had the match book why would he lean in close?

IF he had the matchbook...Why did she light it?

Another missing "s"? Were these matches supplied by Tina? She lit the cigarette.

Sounds like a lovely work of fiction

Someone remind me - was this meant to have happened before or after the other passengers had left the plane?

I think before, but don't quote me. According to Bruce Smith (here we go again), Tina lit eight Raleigh cigarettes for him while he (DB) kept his hand on the bomb trigger.

Hmmm.....Dominate hand (assuming) on the Dynamite trigger plus matches plus lit cigarettes in his (assumption) non-dominate hand. A multi-tasker. Scary stuff.

Post 1, pg 72: She struck a match to one for him.

Post 2, pg 73: When he ran out of matches, she used the ones she had.

This singular vs multiple stuff is making my head hurt.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[377 22]

Georger wrote

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The same
percentage of oxygen exists at 10k ft + as at sea
level.

True, but Boyle's law applies. Less pressure, less O2 molecules per unit volume.

That's why I need supplemental O2 on high alt jumps and the plane, if piston engined, needs turbocharging or supercharging to have enough power to climb at those alts.

O2 in properly maintained tanks is actually pretty safe. Smoking around one isnt very risky, but it's a better practice not to.

You said "oxygen rich" and I challenged it. I hate to be a nit picker but it's a rare day when I can dispute Georger on a science issue and win. I couldnt resist the temptation.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

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***"She offers to light the cigarette for him. The matchbook he has is blue. The words Sky Chef are on the cover. He leans in close as she flicks the cardboard stick against the strike pad and watches the sulfur fizzle into flame." "Want one?" He holds out the pack. Why not? Tina takes a butt and sticks it in her mouth. She lights it." (Taken from Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Geoffrey Gray pg 57 on Nook book edition)

If he had the match book why would he lean in close?

IF he had the matchbook...Why did she light it?

Another missing "s"? Were these matches supplied by Tina? She lit the cigarette.

Sounds like a lovely work of fiction

Someone remind me - was this meant to have happened before or after the other passengers had left the plane?

I think before, but don't quote me. According to Bruce Smith (here we go again), Tina lit eight Raleigh cigarettes for him while he (DB) kept his hand on the bomb trigger.

Hmmm.....Dominate hand (assuming) on the Dynamite trigger plus matches plus lit cigarettes in his (assumption) non-dominate hand. A multi-tasker. Scary stuff.

Post 1, pg 72: She struck a match to one for him.

Post 2, pg 73: When he ran out of matches, she used the ones she had.

This singular vs multiple stuff is making my head hurt.

And didnt Rat tell Porteous tell Blevins told us that:
Scott never went to the back at all?

But: is it true Cooper gave Hancock the seceret hand
sign for the White Shrine !?

We could ask Leno or Letterman to stop somebody
on the street and ask.

[Orange1 0]

The reason I asked is that if it was before - stew still on duty as far as all the other passengers were concerned - even if passengers could smoke, stews could not. Partly because on duty and partly because you were not allowed to walk around smoking.... I can't imagine a stew on duty either wandering around smoking or sitting next to a passenger doing so. (apparently Gray can though?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Georger wrote:

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And didnt Rat tell Porteous tell Blevins told us that:
Scott never went to the back at all?

But: is it true Cooper gave Hancock the seceret hand
sign for the White Shrine !?

We could ask Leno or Letterman to stop somebody
on the street and ask.

If Marla had waited until Sept to unveil her LDC=DBC theorem do you think we'd have some Sky Chef matches in the tale?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

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Georger wrote

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The same
percentage of oxygen exists at 10k ft + as at sea
level.

True, but Boyle's law applies. Less pressure, less O2 molecules per unit volume.

That's why I need supplemental O2 on high alt jumps and the plane, if piston engined, needs turbocharging or supercharging to have enough power to climb at those alts.

O2 in properly maintained tanks is actually pretty safe. Smoking around one isnt very risky, but it's a better practice not to.

You said "oxygen rich" and I challenged it. I hate to be a nit picker but it's a rare day when I can dispute Georger on a science issue and win. I couldnt resist the temptation.

377

The composition of "air" is constant (for all practical purposes) in the atmosphere where airliners and most manned aircraft fly.

It is the partial pressure of oxygen that is important to humans. Most humans can tolerate elevations of 8 to 10 thousand feet without any problems (unless they have underlying health concerns).

So the problem in aircraft cabin pressuration is to keep the partial pressure of oxygen at the 8 or 10 thousand foot level or lower. This is simply solved by keeping the cabin elevation below those levels.

In the case of unpressurized cabins, such as Farflung has probably experienced, the only way to keep the partial pressure of oxygen at the appropriate level is to increase the percentage of oxygen. A pressure demand oxygen mask can maintain the proper partial pressure of oxygen up to an altitude of about 40 thousand feet.

Above that, the mask's regulator has settings for 41, 43, and 45 thousand feet (if I remember correctly). However, the partial pressure of oxygen cannot be maintained at the appropriate level at those altitudes and the wearer is in a state of "limbo", as it was explained to me.

Current FAA regulations require that, depending on the airliner altitude, one or both pilots must have their "quick donning" oxygen masks on their head, or in actual use, depending on the altitude. The flight crew has its own oxygen system.

The airline passengers "drop down" masks are a constant flow system from pressurized tanks and which are only good for something like 10 to 15 minutes.

[377 22]

Every major conspiracy theory eventually draws in the Masons.

Was Tina once a Job's Daughter? Might DBC have given the secret sign that obligated her to assist a Mason in distress?

Come on folks, this is fertile ground that needs to be plowed, planted and harvested.

Was Duane a Mason?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

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Every major conspiracy theory eventually draws in the Masons.

Was Tina once a Job's Daughter? Might DBC have given the secret sign that obligated her to assist a Mason in distress?

Come on folks, this is fertile ground that needs to be plowed, planted and harvested.

Was Duane a Mason?

377

Don't forget the Trilateral Comission. Was Duane a member of it?

[Orange1 0]

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Every major conspiracy theory eventually draws in the Masons.
Was Tina once a Job's Daughter? Might DBC have given the secret sign that obligated her to assist a Mason in distress?
Come on folks, this is fertile ground that needs to be plowed, planted and harvested.
Was Duane a Mason?

377

You forget...Jo did actually bring the Freemasons into it at one point. Mercifully, it was a brief excursion.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

377 asks with evil (but funny) intent:


“If Marla had waited until Sept to unveil her LDC=DBC theorem do you think we'd have some Sky Chef matches in the tale?”


Not only yes, but HELL YES. Every author searching for the truth appears to have the virtues of Diogenes, the sensory perception of Helen Keller and all the subtly of a sticky gasoline pump handle.

The story will evolve (by someone) into a relative that is obsessed with Dan Cooper comics, who smoked those cigarettes they can’t quite remember, but they had coupons; like every other brand from the 70’s. Kinda like describing a Chuck Norris movie with it being the one where he used martial arts.

Oh, and they will add how his favorite restaurant in the world was the Airport ‘Sky Chef’ where he had this habit of filling his pockets with matchbooks at the cashier’s station and using the aft door of the restaurant to exit.

[377 22]

Robert99 wrote

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The airline passengers "drop down" masks are a constant flow system from pressurized tanks and which are only good for something like 10 to 15 minutes.

The passenger drop down O2 systems I have seen are not tank fed but have individual O2 generator cans feeding each mask. The cans contain chemical ingredients that mix when the mask feed tube is sharply pulled and begin a VERY hot exothermic oxygen producing reaction. They have caused more than one fire. The Value Jet DC 9 crash in FLA was caused by a bunch of these carried in the cargo bay. They ignited and caused a fire that resulted in loss of the acft and all pasengers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

The "quick donn" pilot masks are fed by tanks. Skydivers assembling gear for high alt jumps buy those quick donn masks dirt cheap from the places that salvage airliners located in the AZ and Mojave CA deserts. You can remove the quick mount head bird cage and fit straps to the Scott brand quick donn masks pretty easily. The same type of mask with OE straps can cost 30x the price of a quick donn type. The pilot masks have very high quality internal microphones which are great for doing radio jumps.

With those masks on and the sound of labored breathing, the appropriate use of pauses, clipped speech and "ahhhhs", I can sound just like Farflung. I want to make an iPhone app that will do that on cell calls. If you are gonna talk why not sound all hunky and fighter piloty?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

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Robert99 wrote

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The airline passengers "drop down" masks are a constant flow system from pressurized tanks and which are only good for something like 10 to 15 minutes.

The passenger drop down O2 systems I have seen are not tank fed but have individual O2 generator cans feeding each mask. The cans contain chemical ingredients that mix when the mask feed tube is sharply pulled and begin a VERY hot exothermic oxygen producing reaction. They have caused more than one fire. The Value Jet DC 9 crash in FLA was caused by a bunch of these carried in the cargo bay. They ignited and caused a fire that resulted in loss of the acft and all pasengers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

The "quick donn" pilot masks are fed by tanks. Skydivers assembling gear for high alt jumps buy those quick donn masks dirt cheap from the places that salvage airliners located in the AZ and Mojave CA deserts. You can remove the quick mount head bird cage and fit straps to the Scott brand quick donn masks pretty easily. The same type of mask with OE straps can cost 30x the price of a quick donn type. The pilot masks have very high quality internal microphones which are great for doing radio jumps.

With those masks on and the sound of labored breathing, the appropriate use of pauses, clipped speech and "ahhhhs", I can sound just like Farflung. I want to make an iPhone app that will do that on cell calls. If you are gonna talk why not sound all hunky and fighter piloty?

377

377, I'll defer to you on the O2 generator cans, especially since I have never seen one of them.

A couple of years ago, an Australian 747 had a cargo compartment explosion that blew off a sizeable chunk of the fuselage skin. If I remember correctly, that explosion was credited to a large oxygen tank that was part of the passenger "drop down" system. So maybe some airliners still use the tanks versus the generator cans.

I personally have only used a constant flow oxygen system to 18 thousand feet and had to stop there due to airspace restrictions.

Also, once a very long time ago, I went to 18 thousand feet without any oxygen equipment. But before doing that, I had determined that I was going to head back down at a specific time even if I didn't get to 18 thousand. Basically, I went up fast and came down even faster.

I have used a pressure demand oxygen system to 36,500 feet and would have gone on up to 40,000 feet if it had not been about 70 degrees below zero in the cockpit, not counting wind chill factor (all cockpit ventilators had to be kept wide open to keep the canopy from icing over). That was the coldest I have ever been.

[377 22]

Robert99 wrote:

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I have used a pressure demand oxygen system to 36,500 feet and would have gone on up to 40,000 feet if it had not been about 70 degrees below zero in the cockpit, not counting wind chill factor (all cockpit ventilators had to be kept wide open to keep the canopy from icing over). That was the coldest I have ever been.

Yikes Robert. What were you flying?

I have jumped twice from 24,000 breathing O2 in the plane but jumping without supplemental O2. I've jumped many times from 18,000 with no O2 in the plane or during descent. I did one hop and pop from 18,000 with SpO2 telemetry. My readings were in the low 90s at exit and increased during the canpoy ride down. The climb to exit altitude was VERY quick in a souped up King Air 200. That helped a lot.

Those 24,000 ft jumps were FREEZING, even in the middle of the summer. My goggles iced over right away and didn't clear until about 12,000 ft. Remember we have a 130++ mph wind chill factor in freefall up there. BRRRR.

The 727 crew probably could have put Cooper into a stupor (hey that rhymes) by donning masks and climbing to 24,000. But then what would you do with him?

I know what Rataczak would have suggested: a swim in the Pacific.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.