DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99. I will ask Ralph about this question on the reno accident, please PM me and let me know exactly what questions you would like answered. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo: Your Comment that I am not part of the Cooper story. Realy. Go Figure. And you are. If so how do you think your part of the Cooper story With all your made up stories and changes about Duane Not to mention the conspiracy claims and ties to the Mafia or better yet a recipe for some kind of cake that is supposed to prove Duane was Cooper involved in a conspiracy in a atempt to let a author of a book believe you were Mrs. D Cooper. Still once again post all names involved with you from your maiden untill present , or would you like me to do it for you Lets not forget the tapes And your polygraph results after you tak the test .. ??????????????? . All you have done is make up lie after lie and refuse to back it up after you promissed to In Doug Pasterniks story. So if any one is not part of this story it is you. As for putting me in my place I hope you are correct because my place is on the witness stand at your trial for fraude in this case. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Blevins: Geof covered Toms experiments from his perspective at the time he Wrote the Book he also covered Jo and his Perspective of her at the beginning of writing his book . Still countless phone calls and weird comments actually changed his mind To understand this last comment all you have to do is read the ending of his book and understand there is a hunger for conspiracy cake. Jerry

[377 22]

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Ralph H (who I believe flew P 51s in the military) might be interested in the telemetry from the P 51 racer that cras***hed at Reno. When the elevator trim tab broke off the plane did a violent pitch up pulling 21 Gs!!!! I'm amazed the wing spar didn't fail. Tough plane. Awful tragedy.

377

377, The elevator trim tab breaking off would not cause the aircraft to pull 21Gs, and the the wing spar and everything else would have failed long before things got past about 10-12Gs.

Did you see the pictures where the tail wheel was not retracted? Also, the cockpit was clearly visible in some of the pictures and there was no sign of the pilot.

I'll wait for the report from the investigators but I'll bet there were several problems that figured into the accident.

I found the report of 21Gs very hard to believe too. Maybe it was a sensor error. Still, years ago a P 51 racer flying on the deck had a similar failure. It lost the elevator trim tab and a violent pitch up immediately followed. Although not recorded, the G forces were strong enough to black out the pilot who recovered consciousness at 9000 feet and was able to control the plane and land it.

Jimmy Leeward, the pilot in the recent crash, reportedly hated wearing a shoulder harness. That could explain why he isn't seen in the cockpit right before impact. He may have been slumped over and unconscious.

Jerry, I am not so sure Coopers gear choice points to inexperience as a jumper. If I were going to deploy immediately after exiting a high speed acft (over 150 mph) I'd take the military bailout rig over a sport rig whose canopy was likely placarded for use under 150 mph. Those military C9 canopies are waaay stronger than a Paracommander. The choice could have been rational or random. We will probably never know.

Personally I'd have taken the military rig and pulled right off the stairs. I know the canopy could take it and by avoiding freefall I also avoid tumbling out of control and posdibly going in as a no pull.

If I knew about the Thailand 727 jumps I'd know that the sleeveless military canopies "squidded" thus giving reasonably slow inflations and avoiding a big opening shock.

Still, it's all a guess as to why Cooper did what he did.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

I’ve read the transcripts and searched for something that would indicate some level of aviation experience acquired beyond that of a barstool conversation or some Walter Mitty in a slow death, desk job reading some romance novel about a pilot named Max Guano. I have not found any such evidence. That’s not to say there isn’t some but what has been offered always leads back to the back of a male bovine for some reason.

It’s hard to cover all your tracks since the parlance becomes second nature to someone in the ‘biz’. I used the word TACAN and was identified with military aviation. That is a perfect example of such a ‘tell’.

The same holds true when one of these Walter Mittys are bragging about their experience when no one has even asked about their desired subject. I passed on some information to Hominid that included some standard airline jargon as a way to speed up the ‘open and honest’ exchange of data. Hominid responded that he couldn’t understand ‘gibberish’. Strike ONE Mr Mitty.

Clearly a person has limited knowledge and likely zero practical experience needs a more simplistic and detailed explanation. This involved moving the handle to the DOWN position (I know so confusing) and calling the Flight Engineer to run up some pressure to create a positive differential and break whatever aerodynamic seal may (may here again) have kept the stairs retracted. This sparks rage in the heart of the BS-er, don’t worry as that’s their ONLY tactic. It always is with cowards.

Then comes the techno-babble about running it to 20 atmospheres which isn’t a possibility in any airframe on the planet. Strike TWO Walter Wannabe.

Now that Hominid is exposed as a person with extremely limited (fictitious/fantasy) knowledge and a boundless desire to speak with authority; here comes the Hail Mary of all internet bullies with a ‘Mr Green Special’ where his last missive was an attempt at humor (pulllleeease). Here is yet another area Walter Mitty types fail because along with being utterly devoid of any relevant knowledge, they are just as deficit in the arena of humor. Strike THREE Hominid.

The stairs were an obstacle and nothing more, as Jerry Thomas succinctly opined. Cooper demanded that Tina stay in the back with him to assist with the stairs as recorded in the transcripts. No need for any revisionist history here unless fantasy is the goal. In a matter of months a Parking Lot Attendant, University Student, Magazine Salesman and Gas Station Attendant managed to open 727 and DC-9 stairs and bail. These should be case studies with equally exotic analysis to use in forecasting or reverse engineering but are constantly ignored since the data is too easy to verify and presumably those interested in fiction avoid such exercises like the plague. System B hydraulics indeed.

[Hominid 0]

Whew! And I was feelin bad about pickin on ya.

[EVickiW 0]

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Whew! And I was feelin bad about pickin on ya.

Why do you have to "pick" on anybody? Information should be shared (share is the keyword) and not a trumping contest.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Hominid 0]

Would anyone of the forum who isn't a techy calculatin kinda person be up to doing a little calculatin and sharin the results with the forum as you go.

It wouldn't be just an exercise to learn that you can calculate or show others that you can. I think, at the end, you'd actually learn something of a small significance to the hijacking case--and others who just watch maybe would as well. If more than one cared to participate we could involve more than one.

Would only involve multiplying and adding. Stuff easy to do with just a cheapy hand calculator, and it really won't take much time.

Any interest?

[Hominid 0]

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Why do you have to "pick" on anybody? Information should be shared (share is the keyword) and not a trumping contest.

I agree with you. I don't really think I was pickin on him. I appreciate reasoned critique of my ideas. To do that a person would really have to actually read them and try to understand them. I don't consider myths to be information. If one is dropped, I'd rather see someone point it out rather just have others accept it as fact.

Anyway, I don't like being mean. I'm not mean. I'm just..... (you know)

[Farflung 0]

Presumably if a person has access to the internet they have a…. wait for it….. little longer…… computer!

With a computer (assume PC here) you (or anyone) can go to the ‘start’ icon, then to ‘all programs’, then select ‘accessories’ and you will find a calculator!! Hey that’s great!!! Or……

Go on the interwebs and search the word umm….. wait for it…. little longer…. CALCULATOR.

Then do your calcs and publish the results rather than attempt what many may view as a thinly veiled manipulation.

If you are a so called ‘Geek’ you sure don’t know much about technology either. You’re welcome for the two (2) sources of a three function (cheapy?) calculator and all the wonders which no doubt will be divined.

[Hominid 0]

You really are one mean simeon (or however it's spelled).

[Farflung 0]

7) Impotent

8) Incontinent

9) Insecure

10) Impolite

[Hominid 0]

One thing that gets a little lost in the poll instrument is that I didn't mean "you know" as in the mindless usage we sometimes see where someone says it when they really can't explain. The thing kids started saying a few years ago. I used the term as a way to actually refer to something as was done only a while back right here in River City.

[Hominid 0]

Vicki,

Still enthralled with someone who insults so much? Does it to really old people? I haven't mentioned it before, but I'm also very sick. All kinds of meds. (cough, cough). I can't lie. I only have a cold right now, and I don't have a lot of meds except for the usual for an old person

[Robert99 50]

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Vicki,

Still enthralled with someone who insults so much? Does it to really old people? I haven't mentioned it before, but I'm also very sick. All kinds of meds. (cough, cough). I can't lie. I only have a cold right now, and I don't have a lot of meds except for the usual for an old person

Hominid, I don't want to pile on but I am quite a bit older than you and Farflung has never insulted me.

[Hominid 0]

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I don't want to pile on but I am quite a bit older than you and Farflung has never insulted me.

Do you have any thoughts as to the reason for the difference?

Maybe 70 isn't old enough?

[Hominid 0]

I've mentioned I got a TransWorld Airline (TWA) manual that has pages dated up to Aug 68. I haven't searched all through it to see if there was any later 'cause it's hard going through all that .pdf. Anyway, it's the closest thing I've found to reflecting how -100 series 727s were around the time of the hijacking. I've found a list of Boeing service bulletins about the airstairs, but haven't been able to get any copies of them. Nothing but much later vintage airworthiness directives.

It's available to anyone with interest, $20 and ability to deal with a 106-ish megabyte pdf. It's sold as a download from http://www.flight-manuals.com. For this site I think you actually have to include the "www." It is sold by "Mach One Manuals" but I don't think they have a web site. The flight-manuals.com might be their site. I found it by yahooing. If you do so I suggest +"Boeing 727" +manual +"Mach One". I realize you'll probably use Google, but I feel sorry for Yahoo! that they didn't pick a name that would trip off the tongue with "it."

Forgot to mention that you'll find 3 other 727 manuals there. One other kind, two other airlines. I don't remember if any of the ones other than the TWA said anything about the applicability timeframe.

[georger 244]

Sounds simplistic, but I think it was the money. One of the reasons I believe this is because he seemed so happy to get it. Had it been part of some big conspiracy, he would have just checked the money bag to make sure the currency was real and then set it aside. But from the stews' testimony, he seemed really happy when NWA came through for him. In 1971, $200,000 was worth $1,040,000 today. Jackpot, baby. It's been fun, but now I gotta run. Or fly, as the case might be. (*smiles*)

[Hominid 0]

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Cool jump picture from the stairs. For a non-jumper makes it a lot easier to picture DB's jump. In my mind's eye, I've only imagined his jump from the outside of the plane.

Sorry I skipped right over your post Smokin. It is nice. The pic was posted here a while back. I can't remember how many centuries it was. My recollection is that it was done during production of some TV show on the hijack. I posted it to show a couple of the parts relevant to stair operaion.

Of course, you'd have to add dark, rain, a raincoat under the pack (and the straps under the loafers to hold them on).

[Farflung 0]

My father told me (over and over and over) that the ONLY time a senior citizen uses the ‘Senior Citizen Age Card’ in order to get respect is because they are and have ALWAYS been JERKS. Some old people get through life being treated with respect the same as younger (less deserving??) people and make all the transitions seamlessly. This is due to their conduct and interactions with society regardless of chronological age. Otherwise Charles Manson would qualify except Hominid would kiss that butt because he is older. Way to go Hominid, stay classy.

Why Hominid feels his age gives license to abhorrent and disgusting conduct is beyond me and I will never give quarter to such a suggestion.

Robert99 may or may not be older because it has never been an issue. Robert99 occupies a rare seat (one I can’t obtain for good reason) on the DBC thread for consistent and thoughtful analysis. His participation is numerically less in the number of total comments but contain the density of iridium compared to anything I’ve penned in 700 wasted moments of time.

Shame on Hominid for using such a flaccid ‘sympathy card’ in an attempt to bait a response from Vicki in some sort of freaky and weird guilt trip for his own sick and perverse pleasure which will result in the same empty feeling he has known for so long. Does advanced age offer knowledge of the final depths to depravity? For Hominid the two are indistinguishable and intertwined in a dirty tango which is performed before an empty audience. He deflects and minimizes his arrogant behaviors while amplifying non sequitur medical conditions and age without knowing the same about me or anyone else. Nor does he bother to ask.

Truly the definition of narcissism.

[Robert99 50]

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I don't want to pile on but I am quite a bit older than you and Farflung has never insulted me.

Do you have any thoughts as to the reason for the difference?

Maybe 70 isn't old enough?

At 70+ I do have a few years on you. And by a very wierd coincidence, I have another birthday coming up next Thanksgiving day. That will be the 40th anniversary of what?

[Robert99 50]

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R99: It has info about what instruments, nav recvrs, their -100 series had. NWA likely had similar. You'd just need to accomodate the fact that TWA's had KIFIS and I'm sure you know N467US didn't.

Hominid, Several people on this thread have been unable to determine the exact flight instrumention that was installed on NWA N467US, Boeing 727-051 model, which was delivered in early 1965.

However, it appears to have been just basic instrumentation including a RMI, HSI, and a state-of-the-art Attitude Indicator which did not have any Flight Director capabilities.

If you run across the precise NWA 727 instrumentation please post it to this thread.

[Hominid 0]

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If you run across the precise NWA 727 instrumentation please post it to this thread.

Naturally, but it ain't likely I'd just run across it. I think it would be a real stroke of luck if a handful of manuals slipped out of NWA. Best chance might be to have someone go around garage sales, etc. around Minneapolis. 377 told me his mom found his World Airways manual like that in the bay area and I really think that kind of thing would be the most likely way.

[Farflung 0]

Oh, I see…… so everything you posted earlier was just a bunch of guessing and speculation from stall 2 at the Hometown Buffet. Sure smelled that way and you know what I mean don’t you?

Gosh, you were so cock sure of yourself with all your ‘big knob talk’ where you knew everything. Now I see a great deal of backpedalling from what YOU said was an absolute.

Buying data from ‘garage sales’ sure compares with FREE info from people that actually worked with those systems for years and were willing to share that information. Sure would take a class ‘A’ loser to toss all that experience away because his ‘Yard Sale’ data didn’t agree with all his reading.

I’ll alert the media that Hominid is on the job.

[smokin99 0]

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state-of-the-art Attitude Indicator

lol.....we could use one of those around here sometimes, huh?.
On second thought....Nah....probably redundant.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill