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Jo: If im at fault for puting you in the ER because i prevented you from pulling off another one of your Scams then i am the best scam artist this world has ever seen. WoW! wait a second I can't be the best you Have already claimed that title. As for your conversation with Donna her and i discussed me showing up there a couple months ago. Only thing that was said was that you had told her i was stalking you and you ere scared more of your lies to people. Jo All this BS will catch up to you very soon, Trust me on this, You continue to place youself in a situation /crime that you don' t belong at the Weber familys exspense . Why don't you just take a polygraph test and be done with this whole buisness. Have you explained your refusal for not taking the test yet other than the fact that you are a lier. Better yet why do you persist to claim your knowledge in this case by continueing to build stories and lies. How many post have you made claiming different places Duane buried the money. Better yet how many times have you claimed to have bad health even before you started to blaim it on me. I remember one forum you posted on in 2003 that you claimede you were dieing and needed help and info. Your title then was MRS COOPER. Now what kind of a lier does that make a person that makes these claims . ( Jerry Thiomas can never hurt me again) Realy I never have hurt you you have destroyed yourself and continue to do so every time you post and destroy the Weber name . Why don't you use your maiden name or the name your kids carry. If all you realy want is to solve this case. I'll tell you why your just making up stories so you can get attention.Just take a polygraph test and we will all be done with your facinating fiction. Jerry
Orange1 0
Let me get this theory straight: there was a fight, they pitched Cooper overboard. Do I presume correctly that this theory holds the FBI was not told this (otherwise why waste all the time trying to track down Cooper, plus they would have some idea where the body would have fallen?)
My first thought was a tantrum on realizing that the good reserve had been cut up and the one that was left was useless (subsequently chucked out the door in same fit of pique)
A couple of other points from previous posts:
Re 377 saying Jo's post was absurd...well, many of them are.
Re Jo saying Georger 'nearly burst a heart valve' - well, he had every right to. I obviously missed all that bit. I repeat, whoever outs someone here should be banned. There are those of you who choose to reveal your names, there are others of us who could probably be quite easily figured out, but the point is no-one has a right to out an anonymous poster here. Incidentally I have been led to believe that a certain someone was obliquely trying to out someone else (except they were wrong with the identity). That is just not done.
My wish: world peace, and that we can stop getting repetitive posts that add nothing. Saying something over and over doesn't (1) make it true if it isn't or (2) make it relevant to the case if it isn't. Yes Jo, this means I have no interest in hearing yet again how you nearly got a perfect score in a real estate exam 
.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Georger, you are full of surprises.
I have to admit the post explaining the Galley was very very interesting.
Your experience with Gray is similar to my own experience. I also feel there is something he held back - keys to the next book maybe? At least that is the feeling I got.
I do know that his time spent with Knoss cost him an interview with the Co-pilot. I was the one who was chose to deliver the message to him when he came to my home. In other words Bill told me to tell Gray to stop calling him. I delivered the message, but I hink Gray already knew he had screwed up with the co-pilot. Bill R. is a very very nice guy.
I think Gray hit Knoss because he was going for sensationalism and it back fired because like myself and my guy - we could NEVER verify anything Knoss told me. Such as he claimed Duane's wife was arrested - and it was in the papers. We found no arrest and no evidence she was an apt manager there. Duane and MJ were only there about 6 wks. Everything Gray and I and my guy checked out went to Zeroville.
One thing about knoss's story still haunts me - the Indian Song.
Never figured that one out. Maybe I inadvertantly told Knoss about the song.
The Galley Story fit something else I have learned from individuals who actually saw the plane go over (well heard it). One did claim to see lights above the haze and that the plane was very low. (1 out of 7).
I have dotted the planes route by witnesses. If they actually heard the 727 - it puts that plane coming near Cougar and close to St. Mt. Helens. Maybe they were Dumping the body?
You Think? As good a guess as you will get out of me....if they did dump Cooper - why wasn't he found?
That rear galley is just to the right of the aft stairway. Makes sense there would be turbulence near the opening of the aft way.l
The place card was dislodged so undoubtedly other things flew up and out and around.
I have to admit the post explaining the Galley was very very interesting.
Your experience with Gray is similar to my own experience. I also feel there is something he held back - keys to the next book maybe? At least that is the feeling I got.
I do know that his time spent with Knoss cost him an interview with the Co-pilot. I was the one who was chose to deliver the message to him when he came to my home. In other words Bill told me to tell Gray to stop calling him. I delivered the message, but I hink Gray already knew he had screwed up with the co-pilot. Bill R. is a very very nice guy.
I think Gray hit Knoss because he was going for sensationalism and it back fired because like myself and my guy - we could NEVER verify anything Knoss told me. Such as he claimed Duane's wife was arrested - and it was in the papers. We found no arrest and no evidence she was an apt manager there. Duane and MJ were only there about 6 wks. Everything Gray and I and my guy checked out went to Zeroville.
One thing about knoss's story still haunts me - the Indian Song.
Never figured that one out. Maybe I inadvertantly told Knoss about the song.
The Galley Story fit something else I have learned from individuals who actually saw the plane go over (well heard it). One did claim to see lights above the haze and that the plane was very low. (1 out of 7).
I have dotted the planes route by witnesses. If they actually heard the 727 - it puts that plane coming near Cougar and close to St. Mt. Helens. Maybe they were Dumping the body?
You Think? As good a guess as you will get out of me....if they did dump Cooper - why wasn't he found?
That rear galley is just to the right of the aft stairway. Makes sense there would be turbulence near the opening of the aft way.l
The place card was dislodged so undoubtedly other things flew up and out and around.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteLet me get this theory straight: there was a fight, they pitched Cooper overboard. Do I presume correctly that this theory holds the FBI was not told this (otherwise why waste all the time trying to track down Cooper, plus they would have some idea where the body would have fallen?)
My first thought was a tantrum on realizing that the good reserve had been cut up and the one that was left was useless (subsequently chucked out the door in same fit of pique)
Orange, no mention of a fight in any version I have
heard, from any source.
No mention of crew involvement.
No explanation at all for the state of the galley in
any version I have been told.
Just that the rear galley was found in a shambles,
just as Geof describes in his book. Found by the
FBI on entering 305 for its inspection.
The idea that the plane might have pitched with
Cooper on the stairs (to be rid of him) was not
suggested in any version of the story I was told.
That idea, so far as I know, has come from
outsiders.
Its late I need to turn in.
He made some raging drunk post and he is mad as hell right now. Knew he would be when he learned that Donna and I talk.
Donna has never lied to me.
What would her reason be?
Donna knows the 'others" I have met.
JT claimed he was picking Ralph up but Donna thinks they are going to the shindig in Woodlands not at her place.
SHE WAS VERY SPECIFIC REGARDING - JERRY not being ALLOWED to come there.
Donna has never lied to me.
What would her reason be?
Donna knows the 'others" I have met.
JT claimed he was picking Ralph up but Donna thinks they are going to the shindig in Woodlands not at her place.
SHE WAS VERY SPECIFIC REGARDING - JERRY not being ALLOWED to come there.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
QuoteHe made some raging drunk post and he is mad as hell right now. Knew he would be when he learned that Donna and I talk.
....
JT claimed he was picking Ralph up but Donna thinks they are going to the shindig in Woodlands not at her place.
SHE WAS VERY SPECIFIC REGARDING - JERRY not being ALLOWED to come there.
Whether or not it's true - WHO CARES?? It's irrelevant. Stop sounding like a 5-year old tattle-tale. That's just embarrassing.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 22
Jo wrote
Jo,
When I jumped from a DC 9 jet airliner there was no cabin air turbulence inside the door opening. None at all.
I don't mind you bragging about your RE exam score, but I sure wish you'd stop promising to produce extraordinary evidence which never is disclosed.
Also, blaming Jerry for ruining your health and causing you to make ER visits says more about you being hysterical than Jerry being physically harmful. At any time you could have simply ceased communicating with him. You chose to let the dialog continue and it has been going on for years. He didn't physically assault you. He just sent words your way. If words could physically injure people and send them to hospitals the military would be researching word weapons.
We are a few days into the "few weeks" you asked us to wait for your case solving evidence. You wont deliver, you never do, and you will blame the FBI. Prove me wrong.
The story about the food all over the cabin is intriguing, but I see no evidence that it's a true account. It's like the story about Cooper checking rig packing cards. Intriguing but unverified.
If food was thrown all over the place it wasn't caused by simply having the door open. I'd bet on that.
As for the crew killing Cooper and keeping the loot, it's a great drama story but highly unlikely.
377
QuoteThat rear galley is just to the right of the aft stairway. Makes sense there would be turbulence near the opening of the aft way.l
The place card was dislodged so undoubtedly other things flew up and out and around.
Jo,
When I jumped from a DC 9 jet airliner there was no cabin air turbulence inside the door opening. None at all.
I don't mind you bragging about your RE exam score, but I sure wish you'd stop promising to produce extraordinary evidence which never is disclosed.
Also, blaming Jerry for ruining your health and causing you to make ER visits says more about you being hysterical than Jerry being physically harmful. At any time you could have simply ceased communicating with him. You chose to let the dialog continue and it has been going on for years. He didn't physically assault you. He just sent words your way. If words could physically injure people and send them to hospitals the military would be researching word weapons.
We are a few days into the "few weeks" you asked us to wait for your case solving evidence. You wont deliver, you never do, and you will blame the FBI. Prove me wrong.
The story about the food all over the cabin is intriguing, but I see no evidence that it's a true account. It's like the story about Cooper checking rig packing cards. Intriguing but unverified.
If food was thrown all over the place it wasn't caused by simply having the door open. I'd bet on that.
As for the crew killing Cooper and keeping the loot, it's a great drama story but highly unlikely.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
pek771 0
So, DBC was killed by the remaining flight crew during a food fight and was then sent overboard? And, this conspiracy has been covered up from the general public for 40 years?
And, DB Cooper was actually Uncle Bob.
And, DB Cooper was actually Uncle Bob.
Farflung 0
georger says that I’ll be demanding a source from any person making some new or stupefying claim? Well true enough. I think I’ve been pretty good about offering graphics, news articles and photos to support whatever point I’m trying to make.
Now I feel kinda bad and think that having sources is the wrong approach and we should just trust people and not be curmudgeons looking for evil around every corner. Why won’t I simply believe a story that has managed to escape detection for 40 years which is held by georger and Gray out of mutual admiration? Georger says that he did it to let Gray have ‘first shot’ at solving this crime. Sure glad this crime didn’t involve the murder and or rape of people since withholding information under the guise of professional courtesy would appear absurd. Whew, dodged a bullet there georger.
Yes, I think that the fact that 305 was on its last PAX revenue generating flight for the day is not enough information to determine what is in the galley. Common sense would have non-perishable snack items rather than uncooked pork, whole milk and cantaloupes from Colorado. But what do I know?
Now I feel kinda bad and think that having sources is the wrong approach and we should just trust people and not be curmudgeons looking for evil around every corner. Why won’t I simply believe a story that has managed to escape detection for 40 years which is held by georger and Gray out of mutual admiration? Georger says that he did it to let Gray have ‘first shot’ at solving this crime. Sure glad this crime didn’t involve the murder and or rape of people since withholding information under the guise of professional courtesy would appear absurd. Whew, dodged a bullet there georger.
Yes, I think that the fact that 305 was on its last PAX revenue generating flight for the day is not enough information to determine what is in the galley. Common sense would have non-perishable snack items rather than uncooked pork, whole milk and cantaloupes from Colorado. But what do I know?
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteLet me get this theory straight: there was a fight, they pitched Cooper overboard. Do I presume correctly that this theory holds the FBI was not told this (otherwise why waste all the time trying to track down Cooper, plus they would have some idea where the body would have fallen?)
My first thought was a tantrum on realizing that the good reserve had been cut up and the one that was left was useless (subsequently chucked out the door in same fit of pique)
Orange, no mention of a fight in any version I have
heard, from any source.
No mention of crew involvement.
No explanation at all for the state of the galley in
any version I have been told.
Just that the rear galley was found in a shambles,
just as Geof describes in his book. Found by the
FBI on entering 305 for its inspection.
The idea that the plane might have pitched with
Cooper on the stairs (to be rid of him) was not
suggested in any version of the story I was told.
That idea, so far as I know, has come from
outsiders.
Its late I need to turn in.
I'm one of the "outsiders" that Georger mentions above. No flight crew that I have talked to is going to sit on their hands quietly while some jerk in the rear of the aircraft has a "bomb", fake or otherwise, and has threatened to blow up them and their airplane.
377 is correct in stating that the wind would not cause the cabin to be trashed (including food on the cabin ceiling) as stated by the FBI. The airplane did not fly through a "storm" and there were no "natural" forces to cause the trashing.
There is no need for any crew member to go into the cabin. Once Cooper heads down those stairs, he has lost control of the situation. A few sharp control movements in the cockpit, and unexpected by Cooper, means that Cooper may be gone a bit ahead of his schedule.
Robert99
Farflung 0
So there are spaghetti dinners thrown all over the fuselage, pressure bumps measured by umm….. no one and an open door wreaking havoc from windblast to the interior of Flight 305. Yeah, got it, a superb treatment for a Hollywood production with someone as writer or technical advisor packed with action and some romance.
What would happen if there was an open door with a rotary wing and a couple pressure bump creating devices (Gatling gun, rockets, machine gun) and someone experiencing all three to the soundtrack of some Pat Boone song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5MIDsnO3c&feature=related
Nawwwww, too far fetched and no one could survive such an onslaught of pressure bumps, thumps, knocks, slaps, jounces, raps, jolts and blows. Oddly, it’s not just the pressure that blows about this story. Good thing this was caught before it started to get weird.
What would happen if there was an open door with a rotary wing and a couple pressure bump creating devices (Gatling gun, rockets, machine gun) and someone experiencing all three to the soundtrack of some Pat Boone song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5MIDsnO3c&feature=related
Nawwwww, too far fetched and no one could survive such an onslaught of pressure bumps, thumps, knocks, slaps, jounces, raps, jolts and blows. Oddly, it’s not just the pressure that blows about this story. Good thing this was caught before it started to get weird.
georger 244
I'm one of the "outsiders" that Georger mentions above. No flight crew that I have talked to is going to sit on their hands quietly while some jerk in the rear of the aircraft has a "bomb", fake or otherwise, and has threatened to blow up them and their airplane.
377 is correct in stating that the wind would not cause the cabin to be trashed (including food on the cabin ceiling) as stated by the FBI. The airplane did not fly through a "storm" and there were no "natural" forces to cause the trashing.
There is no need for any crew member to go into the cabin. Once Cooper heads down those stairs, he has lost control of the situation. A few sharp control movements in the cockpit, and unexpected by Cooper, means that Cooper may be gone a bit ahead of his schedule.
Robert99
377 is correct in stating that the wind would not cause the cabin to be trashed (including food on the cabin ceiling) as stated by the FBI. The airplane did not fly through a "storm" and there were no "natural" forces to cause the trashing.
There is no need for any crew member to go into the cabin. Once Cooper heads down those stairs, he has lost control of the situation. A few sharp control movements in the cockpit, and unexpected by Cooper, means that Cooper may be gone a bit ahead of his schedule.
Robert99
I named three sources for the story. Guess people
wont read -
I named Geof's source. Guess people wont read/
dont believe it. Geof will probably include this at his
symposium where 377 will be giving expert
testimony.
No air appreciable turbulence in the back with door
open and stairs down. Ckret covered that -
remember? Others have covered that. Not allaged
as a factor in this incident in any event.
Lets wait the three weeks for 377 to digest it and
then publish it as his story - then people will take it
seriously, country clubs being what they are.
And for Blevins' benefit: the story did not come from
Galen. Im saying this to ward off another Blevins
attack -
smokin99 0
QuoteI'm one of the "outsiders" that Georger mentions above. No flight crew that I have talked to is going to sit on their hands quietly while some jerk in the rear of the aircraft has a "bomb", fake or otherwise, and has threatened to blow up them and their airplane.
377 is correct in stating that the wind would not cause the cabin to be trashed (including food on the cabin ceiling) as stated by the FBI. The airplane did not fly through a "storm" and there were no "natural" forces to cause the trashing.
There is no need for any crew member to go into the cabin. Once Cooper heads down those stairs, he has lost control of the situation. A few sharp control movements in the cockpit, and unexpected by Cooper, means that Cooper may be gone a bit ahead of his schedule.
Robert99
Like Orange1, I don't understand 1) why the FBI wouldn't have been told this, or if they were, still opted to spend how many times over the money gained in the hijacking still supposedly searching for him 40 years later??
2) Why the public wasn't told. Corporate mentality doesn't make sense to me - Search for "hijack foiled by crew" from 1960 - 1980 and see all the articles where the crew was instrumental in stopping a hijacker. The crew members are always the good guys. The only reason Cooper is a "folk hero" is after the fact that he "got away" and didn't physically hurt anyone.
If the crew pitched him by control movements in the cockpit, they could've put any spin they wanted on the story to make them look like heroes -- (i.e., he tried to attack them when he realized one of the chutes was inoperable, the airplane experienced weather turbulence while he was on the stairs, etc.). I doubt they would have even needed to spin it.
Okay - so the devil's advocate in me says I can't discount anything until I try to make sense of it....so the only reason I can think that they would not have publicized this: Tina is distraught - she had an emotional investment in this guy because of the time they spent together under stress (Stockholm syndrome??). She thinks they essentially murdered him. To calm her down, they reassure her that he jumped....she tries to believe them -- but in the back of her mind she knows...and this knowledge haunts her throughout her life.
In the ensuing flight, the other three crew members come to the same conclusion through between-the-lines talking and furtive glances...too much luggage here with the broad...................he was leaving, no threat to us out there on the stairs........ ummm maybe we screwed up.........maybe we need to just say he jumped. Maybe just to protect Tina's psyche or maybe they or their corporate bosses are afraid to risk subsequent investigation or that public opinion could turn sour.
Nah....still don't see it. Surely, that same pilot machismo that pitched him would've been aching to tell about it? I still think they would've been heroes and if Tina publicly disagreed, they could have sworn to the turbulence from the weather (doesn't have to be a storm - Pilot Scott has stated (source - news article) that they encountered turbulence during the flight). Tina, acclaimed though she once was for maintaining her chi, would've have been summarily dismissed as a flighty female and thrown to the wolves. Sucks, but that's life.
So....... I can see the crew dropping him in the lurch -- just that the crews subsequent actions don't make sense.
If not another myth... and Cooper didn't throw the bags around cause he had a grudge against Sky Chef(s), could turbulence or turns or landing pitched those bags of food around?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
377 22
QuoteGeof will probably include this at his
symposium where 377 will be giving expert
testimony.
Georger, it's hardly going to expert testimony, just observations and a bit of speculation. The subjects I am going to talk about are:
1. The rigs and canopies, as I have jumped all the basic types that Cooper had aboard, although the military bailout rigs I jumped were modified to accept chest mounted reserves.
2. Jumping from a transport category passenger jet. I have done that (only once) from a DC 9-21.
3. The choice of rigs and speculation about whether it might have been an intelligent rather than random choice to pick a military bailout rig with a C9 over a sport rig with a PC.
4. The Thailand 727 static line jump videos and what they tell a jumper about the issues involved in trying a freefall exit.
5. The risk of a fatal spin/tumble if Cooper were inexperienced and tried to freefall, especially at night with asymmetrical stuff possibly strapped to him. When I learned skydiving there were no AFF jumpmasters hanging on to you. You had to teach yourself freefall stability and it was not easy. I've experienced wild tumbling and disorientation, big time.
Do I know who Cooper was? No, I don't.
Jo, however is sure she does.
Do I know if Cooper survived the jump? No, I don't.
Jerry, however is sure he does.
I wish everyone who posts here would come. I'd like to meet em all, even those I spar with.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Jo Stated:
He made some raging drunk post and he is mad as hell right now. Knew he would be when he learned that Donna and I talk.
JT claimed he was picking Ralph up but Donna thinks they are going to the shindig in Woodlands not at her place.
SHE WAS VERY SPECIFIC REGARDING - JERRY not being ALLOWED to come there.
Orange YOU Replied with this:
Orange just how slanted is your opinion of me? It is alright for JT to call me a liar over and over and treat me like dirt, BUT it is NOT okay when I am able to CONFIRM when he has told mistruths.
Just HOW creditable is everthing else JT claims? In other words if I stand up for right versus wrong - I am condemned and criticized. NOT one time have you ever looked at the other side of the coin...and recognized it for the fake it is.
He made some raging drunk post and he is mad as hell right now. Knew he would be when he learned that Donna and I talk.
JT claimed he was picking Ralph up but Donna thinks they are going to the shindig in Woodlands not at her place.
SHE WAS VERY SPECIFIC REGARDING - JERRY not being ALLOWED to come there.
Orange YOU Replied with this:
QuoteWhether or not it's true - WHO CARES?? It's irrelevant. Stop sounding like a 5-year old tattle-tale. That's just embarrassing.
Orange just how slanted is your opinion of me? It is alright for JT to call me a liar over and over and treat me like dirt, BUT it is NOT okay when I am able to CONFIRM when he has told mistruths.
Just HOW creditable is everthing else JT claims? In other words if I stand up for right versus wrong - I am condemned and criticized. NOT one time have you ever looked at the other side of the coin...and recognized it for the fake it is.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteQuoteGeof will probably include this at his
symposium where 377 will be giving expert
testimony.
Georger, it's hardly going to expert testimony, just observations and a bit of speculation. The subjects I am going to talk about are:
1. The rigs and canopies, as I have jumped all the basic types that Cooper had aboard, although the military bailout rigs I jumped were modified to accept chest mounted reserves.
2. Jumping from a transport category passenger jet. I have done that (only once) from a DC 9-21.
3. The choice of rigs and speculation about whether it might have been an intelligent rather than random choice to pick a military bailout rig with a C9 over a sport rig with a PC.
4. The Thailand 727 static line jump videos and what they tell a jumper about the issues involved in trying a freefall exit.
5. The risk of a fatal spin/tumble if Cooper were inexperienced and tried to freefall, especially at night with asymmetrical stuff possibly strapped to him. When I learned skydiving there were no AFF jumpmasters hanging on to you. You had to teach yourself freefall stability and it was not easy. I've experienced wild tumbling and disorientation, big time.
Do I know who Cooper was? No, I don't.
Jo, however is sure she does.
Do I know if Cooper survived the jump? No, I don't.
Jerry, however is sure he does.
I wish everyone who posts here would come. I'd like to meet em all, even those I spar with.
377
I havent the faintest idea who Cooper was.
I do have ideas on 'what' Cooper was but I keep that
to myself for the mostpart.
Ask Geof at the symposium about the Galey story -
ask him to state everything he was told.
Maybe Tom Kaye knows something? I have no idea.
georger 244
Like Orange1, I don't understand 1) why the FBI wouldn't have been told this, or if they were, still opted to spend how many times over the money gained in the hijacking still supposedly searching for him 40 years later??
2) Why the public wasn't told. Corporate mentality doesn't make sense to me - Search for "hijack foiled by crew" from 1960 - 1980 and see all the articles where the crew was instrumental in stopping a hijacker. The crew members are always the good guys. The only reason Cooper is a "folk hero" is after the fact that he "got away" and didn't physically hurt anyone.
If the crew pitched him by control movements in the cockpit, they could've put any spin they wanted on the story to make them look like heroes -- (i.e., he tried to attack them when he realized one of the chutes was inoperable, the airplane experienced weather turbulence while he was on the stairs, etc.). I doubt they would have even needed to spin it.
Okay - so the devil's advocate in me says I can't discount anything until I try to make sense of it....so the only reason I can think that they would not have publicized this: Tina is distraught - she had an emotional investment in this guy because of the time they spent together under stress (Stockholm syndrome??). She thinks they essentially murdered him. To calm her down, they reassure her that he jumped....she tries to believe them -- but in the back of her mind she knows...and this knowledge haunts her throughout her life.
In the ensuing flight, the other three crew members come to the same conclusion through between-the-lines talking and furtive glances...too much luggage here with the broad...................he was leaving, no threat to us out there on the stairs........ ummm maybe we screwed up.........maybe we need to just say he jumped. Maybe just to protect Tina's psyche or maybe they or their corporate bosses are afraid to risk subsequent investigation or that public opinion could turn sour.
Nah....still don't see it. Surely, that same pilot machismo that pitched him would've been aching to tell about it? I still think they would've been heroes and if Tina publicly disagreed, they could have sworn to the turbulence from the weather (doesn't have to be a storm - Pilot Scott has stated (source - news article) that they encountered turbulence during the flight). Tina, acclaimed though she once was for maintaining her chi, would've have been summarily dismissed as a flighty female and thrown to the wolves. Sucks, but that's life.
So....... I can see the crew dropping him in the lurch -- just that the crews subsequent actions don't make sense.
If not another myth... and Cooper didn't throw the bags around cause he had a grudge against Sky Chef(s), could turbulence or turns or landing pitched those bags of food around?
What am I missing here? Why am I missing it?
Did I not say Geof's source for the galley story is
retired FBI agent, Snow. A retired FBI agent is
FBI! FBI = FBI! FBIxFBI = FBI. FBI/FBI = FBI.
FBI[FBI]/FBI = FBI. FBI+FBI+FBI = FBI. All of the
laws of association & distribution apply! The FBI did
know. The FBI is the source of the story.
Ask Geof Gray - he published it. Geof Gray
interviewed Agent Snow, he says.
As to "turbulence" - its above my pay grade.
I am not going to speak to that issue because it will
only piss people off - who are already pissed off due
to the solar flare index and the call for sources and
attributions which the same people apparently cant
read, dont believe, or wont buy because its not
coming from a skydiver who knwos how many
molecules it takes to make a hairpin & a Big Mac?
Orange1 0
No, JT calling you a liar repeatedly is just as irritating. You both sound like 5-year-olds in a schoolyard. "you're a liar!" "no, I'm not, you're the liar" over and over again. Boring, useless, and a waste of bandwidth. However, there is to my mind a subtle difference between JT calling you a liar on things you say here, and you seeming to go out of your way calling Donna to get something on him. What a colossal waste of energy.
Back to the crew pitched Cooper theory. Yes that has been spoken about before but I can't see why on earth there is any issue with that.., the guy was standing on the steps of a plane with a parachute on his back, for heaven's sake! I bet every jumper on this thread has seen at least one pilot pitch a static line student who got too nervous to let go. That doesn't count as killing Cooper at all, it just means he exited marginally before he was ready. And if that did happen, then, again, the FBI would have known where to look for clues on his landing, surely.... But can some pilot tell me, because I have only seen this done in a Cessna: how far would you have to pitch a 727 to do that? Would it really be enough to get food all over the cabin??
Back to the crew pitched Cooper theory. Yes that has been spoken about before but I can't see why on earth there is any issue with that.., the guy was standing on the steps of a plane with a parachute on his back, for heaven's sake! I bet every jumper on this thread has seen at least one pilot pitch a static line student who got too nervous to let go. That doesn't count as killing Cooper at all, it just means he exited marginally before he was ready. And if that did happen, then, again, the FBI would have known where to look for clues on his landing, surely.... But can some pilot tell me, because I have only seen this done in a Cessna: how far would you have to pitch a 727 to do that? Would it really be enough to get food all over the cabin??
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteI'm one of the "outsiders" that Georger mentions above. No flight crew that I have talked to is going to sit on their hands quietly while some jerk in the rear of the aircraft has a "bomb", fake or otherwise, and has threatened to blow up them and their airplane.
377 is correct in stating that the wind would not cause the cabin to be trashed (including food on the cabin ceiling) as stated by the FBI. The airplane did not fly through a "storm" and there were no "natural" forces to cause the trashing.
There is no need for any crew member to go into the cabin. Once Cooper heads down those stairs, he has lost control of the situation. A few sharp control movements in the cockpit, and unexpected by Cooper, means that Cooper may be gone a bit ahead of his schedule.
Robert99
Like Orange1, I don't understand 1) why the FBI wouldn't have been told this, or if they were, still opted to spend how many times over the money gained in the hijacking still supposedly searching for him 40 years later??
2) Why the public wasn't told. Corporate mentality doesn't make sense to me - Search for "hijack foiled by crew" from 1960 - 1980 and see all the articles where the crew was instrumental in stopping a hijacker. The crew members are always the good guys. The only reason Cooper is a "folk hero" is after the fact that he "got away" and didn't physically hurt anyone.
If the crew pitched him by control movements in the cockpit, they could've put any spin they wanted on the story to make them look like heroes -- (i.e., he tried to attack them when he realized one of the chutes was inoperable, the airplane experienced weather turbulence while he was on the stairs, etc.). I doubt they would have even needed to spin it.
Okay - so the devil's advocate in me says I can't discount anything until I try to make sense of it....so the only reason I can think that they would not have publicized this: Tina is distraught - she had an emotional investment in this guy because of the time they spent together under stress (Stockholm syndrome??). She thinks they essentially murdered him. To calm her down, they reassure her that he jumped....she tries to believe them -- but in the back of her mind she knows...and this knowledge haunts her throughout her life.
In the ensuing flight, the other three crew members come to the same conclusion through between-the-lines talking and furtive glances...too much luggage here with the broad...................he was leaving, no threat to us out there on the stairs........ ummm maybe we screwed up.........maybe we need to just say he jumped. Maybe just to protect Tina's psyche or maybe they or their corporate bosses are afraid to risk subsequent investigation or that public opinion could turn sour.
Nah....still don't see it. Surely, that same pilot machismo that pitched him would've been aching to tell about it? I still think they would've been heroes and if Tina publicly disagreed, they could have sworn to the turbulence from the weather (doesn't have to be a storm - Pilot Scott has stated (source - news article) that they encountered turbulence during the flight). Tina, acclaimed though she once was for maintaining her chi, would've have been summarily dismissed as a flighty female and thrown to the wolves. Sucks, but that's life.
So....... I can see the crew dropping him in the lurch -- just that the crews subsequent actions don't make sense.
If not another myth... and Cooper didn't throw the bags around cause he had a grudge against Sky Chef(s), could turbulence or turns or landing pitched those bags of food around?
Smokin99, Here are a couple of other things to run by your devils advocate side.
First, why were the radio transcripts from the Seattle Center's controllers sanitized for the time that the airliner was in their airspace during the flight to Reno? And don't assume that this information was not obtained in the first place.
Second, take a look at the picture on page 48 of Tosaw's book. That picture was apparently taken at a news conference in Seattle a day or two after the hijacking. Note that all three members of the cockpit crew have their arms folded across their chests. In body language under these circumstances, that means that they have been totally a-l-i-e-n-a-t-e-d. Why?
Robert99
Orange1 0
Robert99 brings up a good point: what was in the transcripts that had to be redacted? (and yes I know the redactions have been mentioned before....)
Could this have anything to do with 377's theory that the FBI is holding something back?
Again, I don't see any issue with them pitching Cooper. He was wearing a parachute. I don't think that's a reason for hiding anything.
Could this have anything to do with 377's theory that the FBI is holding something back?
Again, I don't see any issue with them pitching Cooper. He was wearing a parachute. I don't think that's a reason for hiding anything.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
QuoteI'm one of the "outsiders" that Georger mentions above. No flight crew that I have talked to is going to sit on their hands quietly while some jerk in the rear of the aircraft has a "bomb", fake or otherwise, and has threatened to blow up them and their airplane.
377 is correct in stating that the wind would not cause the cabin to be trashed (including food on the cabin ceiling) as stated by the FBI. The airplane did not fly through a "storm" and there were no "natural" forces to cause the trashing.
There is no need for any crew member to go into the cabin. Once Cooper heads down those stairs, he has lost control of the situation. A few sharp control movements in the cockpit, and unexpected by Cooper, means that Cooper may be gone a bit ahead of his schedule.
Robert99
This is why I am on this thread.
Individuals who can and will give correct answers about the different theories put forth.
1. The aft stairway - did NOT cause the cabin to be trashed.
2. There was NO real tubulence on that flight.
3. The crew would know when Cooper stepped onto the aft stairs.
4. The galley was not trash ,
but things thrown around.
Causes most likely:
1. Tantrum
2. Searching for provisions
3. Turbulence cause by Crew when they knew Cooper was on aftstairs.
The normal lay person like myself likes all 3. I have a suspect - one I lived with for 17 yrs. So I will make statements only as it might apply to Duane Weber.
1. Subject had a temper when provoked. As Georger state many moons ago this may have been attributed to the PDK.
2. Subject was Child-like sometimes - so much so it was endearing.
3. Subject would have thrown out things he touched - hence the chute, but I do not understand why he left behind cords he cut.
4. Reviewing statements made to me by one of the crew - I think Georger is right. Once Cooper stepped onto that aftstair - they tried to dump him.
5. Would this have caused him to die in the jump? The crew had hoped so.
6. Why is all of the above relevant to me and why is it shouting at me?
7. When that money was found in Feb of 1980 (only 5 months after he and I had made what I call the "Sentimental Journey") did they know that Cooper survived..
8. Tina Mucklow lived in Gresham in 1980 and went into a convent after the money find.
9. Why did she do this - because only after the money find did they realized that Cooper did survive.
10. How did they know he survived? Because they knew he did NOT leave that plane over the Columbia.
11. Why did my witness claim they crossed the Columbia - EAST of the Portland Airport if it was actually West of the Airport.
That plane was EAST of the airport when it crossed the Columbia....and I think you guys if you can add 2 and 2 know now that was true.
12. Why was there a period of silence on the recordings? YOU know why - because they were talking about what to do when Cooper hit the aft Stairs.
13. They didn't want this recorded - as the pilots may have been acting on their own. Maybe NOT.
14. Most important - they did NOT know Cooper had survived until the money was FOUND.
15. For me this explains Duane Weber's nightmare - when he woke up grasping with his hand into thin air and screaming at the top of this lungs "I left my print on the aft stair". If he had made a controlled descent down the aft stairs - he would have been able to make sure he left NO prints. Since the tubulence cause him to grab at some part of the aft stair - he always feared he left a print.
16. Is that dream why - I have walked thru doors no one else has over the yrs?
This goes on after - all of the above, but I don't feel very well right now. Need to lie down.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
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