DB Cooper

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

Do you really think I am naive enough to let you guys KNOW exactly what I am up to?

No Jo, we can only depend on you teasing and can never deoend on your promised disclosures.

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You will known the day it is announced to the public -

Well, as predicted, the time horizon slips and slides until it becomes indefinite.

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I might give you a head-up by like 12 hrs and NO more

No more? Please Jo, how about 11 hours. Pulleeeze???

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I worked too hard and with stood to much let you know what is coming.

How does your hard work justify continued concealment? That makes about as much sense as Duane being DBC.

Have you put the news stations on a 12 hour alert? Your house will be surrounded by white vans with telescoping antenna masts. Cameras and microphones will be thrust in your face.

"Mrs. Cooper, just a few words for our viewers, please Mrs. Cooper."

Forget the 12 hour heads up Jo. I'll just program an RSS alert and wait til my smart phone beeps.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[hangdiver 1]

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Do you really think I am naive enough to let you guys KNOW exactly what I am up to. You will known the day it is announced to the public - I might give you a head-up by like 12 hrs and NO more. I worked too hard and with stood to much let youknow what is coming.

Jo...more of the same I'm sure...377...did I detect some frustration...???...

Hey Jo...please then no more POOR ME posts...

I second 377's PLEEEZZ....

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[skyjack71 0]

Think what you wish! Jo's search is NOT Jo's search alone. She has been aided by those who participate and those who only read this thread. She remained absent from the media except for this thread and others for almost 10 yrs and yet never ceased to give up or give in to defeat.

She never allowed anyone to take away her memories and fought to find the truths - be if prove Duane Weber was Cooper or just a wannabe. What she has found will surprise even the FBI.

Perhaps Jo Weber and her benefactors have done what other's failed to do or simply did not want to or could not acknowledge for their own reasons.

She has NOT walked this path alone, but her journey will soon end.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

Do you really think I am naive enough to let you guys KNOW exactly what I am up to. You will known the day it is announced to the public - I might give you a head-up by like 12 hrs and NO more. I worked too hard and with stood to much let youknow what is coming.

Hey Jo...please then no more POOR ME posts...

Precisely. Jo, YOU are the one who comes on here saying something is imminent. Then don't get all uppity when people call you out on the lack of what you have promised. Again and again.

The fable changes from the little boy who cried wolf, to the old lady who cried Cooper....except there is no end in sight to this one. Jo, do you understand that you are the only person responsible for your complete lack of credibility?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

Think what you wish! Jo's search is NOT Jo's search alone. She has been aided by those who participate and those who only read this thread. She remained absent from the media except for this thread and others for almost 10 yrs and yet never ceased to give up or give in to defeat.

She never allowed anyone to take away her memories and fought to find the truths - be if prove Duane Weber was Cooper or just a wannabe. What she has found will surprise even the FBI.

Perhaps Jo Weber and her benefactors have done what other's failed to do or simply did not want to or could not acknowledge for their own reasons.

She has NOT walked this path alone, but her journey will soon end.

DRAMA ALARM. Condition red.

Seriously Jo, switching into this stilted voice writing about yourself as a heroic martyred third person, what's the point? It sounds like tombstone text.

You got some probative evidence? Post it.

You got teases and self important drama? Save it.

I still like you Jo, but your endless teases and unfulfilled promises of imminent blockbuster evidence try even my patience.... and 377 has a LOT of patience.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[TomKaye 1]

Hello All,

After three years we are very happy to finally announce that we are going public with our research. Thank you for your patience. In order to make it accessible to the most people, we have created a website for the work and hopefully parsed it into digestible chunks.

I will be on the road this week but will do my best to answer any questions.

Thanks,

Tom Kaye

www.CitizenSleuths.com

[georger 244]

Quote

Hello All,

After three years we are very happy to finally announce that we are going public with our research. Thank you for your patience. In order to make it accessible to the most people, we have created a website for the work and hopefully parsed it into digestible chunks.

I will be on the road this week but will do my best to answer any questions.

Thanks,

Tom Kaye

www.CitizenSleuths.com

Congrats my friend.

Georger

[georger 244]

Quote

The Tom Kaye Website and Report on the Tie is quite extensive.

Congratulations and kudos for all the hard work done by you and your Citizen Sleuths team.

Thanks. If you are addressing me, all the kudos
go to Tom and his group.

Tom will take questions as he can.

Im going to stay far in the background.

[hangdiver 1]

From snowmman of course:

Quote

you can post this, because it curiously connects to a prior post you made about eye color

I received Ted Braden's criminal record report from Pennsylvania State Police in the mail today.

on 2/20/2002, his description, for a DUI when he was 77, was recorded as:
Height: 5'08"
Weight: 165
Hair: Gray or Partially Gray
Eye: Hazel

nothing else noted other than the known DUI in 2002. So no evidence of jail time or other arrests, unless the records don't go back far enough, or not a PA state issue. (federal?)

this could have been recorded from his driver's license.

So Ted's eyes weren't blue, in 2002 at least.

Thanks Snow...

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[georger 244]

Quote

From snowmman of course:

Quote

you can post this, because it curiously connects to a prior post you made about eye color

I received Ted Braden's criminal record report from Pennsylvania State Police in the mail today.

on 2/20/2002, his description, for a DUI when he was 77, was recorded as:
Height: 5'08"
Weight: 165
Hair: Gray or Partially Gray
Eye: Hazel

nothing else noted other than the known DUI in 2002. So no evidence of jail time or other arrests, unless the records don't go back far enough, or not a PA state issue. (federal?)

this could have been recorded from his driver's license.

So Ted's eyes weren't blue, in 2002 at least.

Thanks Snow...

hangdiver

Hazel eyes are the most variable both in makeup
and in perceived appearance. Snow knows this.

[Orange1 0]

Wow. Hazel may be variable, but a world of difference to that piercing blue in the photos.

Tom, looking forward to going through your website

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

The first time I simply suggested the area where Cooper had to grasp the canopy lines to cut the cord being a better place to check for DNA was instantly (I mean instantly) met with disgust, dismissal and little else. Like a reason for such a visceral response (not uncommon here).

Occam combined with human nature and insecurities told me there was something more behind the curt and charmless response than vanilla asshattery. As always seems to be the case on this thread, time would have to play the agent of truth since the person making the comment was in diametric opposition to that approach.

I opined on how many people could reasonably be molesting those lines at the cut site. Took the number of potential repacks and multiplied out some silly, stupid solution. After all I saw the pictures of Carr handling the lines (see Carr attach).

I truly was stunned at the thought that there would be legions of tourists randomly grabbing, licking and chewing the reserve lines and genuinely could not understand how the necktie could be considered a superior item to extract DNA. The tie by design is not sealed in a container but available for many people to treat as if it was a headless corpse. Weird I thought.

Here is where I get to eat crow and acknowledge that I have never imagined what others clearly knew to be fact. The reserve lines were in all likelihood treated like the only woman on a pirate ship and utterly soiled beyond any evidentiary or scientific value. It’s abundantly clear why this ‘former’ member of the Citizen Sleuth Team was so anxious to deflect any discussion away from the grasp sites where the reserve lines were cut (see Nevermind). Shame on me for not getting a clue, I apologize for the waste of time and will keep this episode in mind and use it as an example should a similar situation arise.

[Farflung 0]

I was studying the image of the reserve chute and could swear I see a……

[georger 244]

Quote

The first time I simply suggested the area where Cooper had to grasp the canopy lines to cut the cord being a better place to check for DNA was instantly (I mean instantly) met with disgust, dismissal and little else. Like a reason for such a visceral response (not uncommon here).

Occam combined with human nature and insecurities told me there was something more behind the curt and charmless response than vanilla asshattery. As always seems to be the case on this thread, time would have to play the agent of truth since the person making the comment was in diametric opposition to that approach.

I opined on how many people could reasonably be molesting those lines at the cut site. Took the number of potential repacks and multiplied out some silly, stupid solution. After all I saw the pictures of Carr handling the lines (see Carr attach).

I truly was stunned at the thought that there would be legions of tourists randomly grabbing, licking and chewing the reserve lines and genuinely could not understand how the necktie could be considered a superior item to extract DNA. The tie by design is not sealed in a container but available for many people to treat as if it was a headless corpse. Weird I thought.

Here is where I get to eat crow and acknowledge that I have never imagined what others clearly knew to be fact. The reserve lines were in all likelihood treated like the only woman on a pirate ship and utterly soiled beyond any evidentiary or scientific value. It’s abundantly clear why this ‘former’ member of the Citizen Sleuth Team was so anxious to deflect any discussion away from the grasp sites where the reserve lines were cut (see Nevermind). Shame on me for not getting a clue, I apologize for the waste of time and will keep this episode in mind and use it as an example should a similar situation arise.

Me puzzled. Me not remember ever posting on this
topicana? Me Georger. But I have had no sleep in
900 days so could have forgotter? What was her
name again? Maybe it was my brother? But he's
dead. I think. Back to bed. The rich never get to
sleep protecting our loot and America! And cut lines
too. Me Georger. Puzled. No sleep. Me Georger.
I was Georger. Something wonderful is going to
happen. Maybe you are it!

[377 22]

Wow, a day where evidence ovewhelmed infighting.

Thanks Snow, thanks Tom and team.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

The first time I simply suggested the area where Cooper had to grasp the canopy lines to cut the cord being a better place to check for DNA was instantly (I mean instantly) met with disgust, dismissal and little else. Like a reason for such a visceral response (not uncommon here).

Occam combined with human nature and insecurities told me there was something more behind the curt and charmless response than vanilla asshattery. As always seems to be the case on this thread, time would have to play the agent of truth since the person making the comment was in diametric opposition to that approach.

I opined on how many people could reasonably be molesting those lines at the cut site. Took the number of potential repacks and multiplied out some silly, stupid solution. After all I saw the pictures of Carr handling the lines (see Carr attach).

I truly was stunned at the thought that there would be legions of tourists randomly grabbing, licking and chewing the reserve lines and genuinely could not understand how the necktie could be considered a superior item to extract DNA. The tie by design is not sealed in a container but available for many people to treat as if it was a headless corpse. Weird I thought.

Here is where I get to eat crow and acknowledge that I have never imagined what others clearly knew to be fact. The reserve lines were in all likelihood treated like the only woman on a pirate ship and utterly soiled beyond any evidentiary or scientific value. It’s abundantly clear why this ‘former’ member of the Citizen Sleuth Team was so anxious to deflect any discussion away from the grasp sites where the reserve lines were cut (see Nevermind). Shame on me for not getting a clue, I apologize for the waste of time and will keep this episode in mind and use it as an example should a similar situation arise.

I feel your pain. I've brought this up a couple of times before in this forum and it didn't get much discussion then either. Interestingly enough, like you, the first time I wondered on this forum as to whether other sources of DNA could be found was after I saw a show about the Tim Masters case and the touch DNA folks from the Netherlands.

Would it be unlikely now, given all the skin cells post hijack that "appear" to have come into contact with those lines, that anything useful could be discerned??
OTOH.. wouldn't it be great if DNA was found and analysis could be performed? They might get a better sample or perhaps at least get enough info to match the tie DNA with any that might be found on the cut lines? Thereby giving more validity to the conclusion that it really was Cooper's tie? And perhaps coming up with a sample that would be more definitive in ruling out various and assorted uncles, husbands, fathers, and brothers?

Also...if, in fact, they only tested the tie, I would love to know the thought process behind only testing it (the tie) for DNA and not other "known" areas that he touched - such as the lines.

Oh well...guess I can chalk all this up to my admittedly microscopic knowledge of DNA analysis along with a whopping dose of wtf.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[pek771 0]

I clearly saw the image of Evel Kinevel in that chute.

DNA will include or exclude persons, period. If a sample of LD Cooper DNA is brought for matching, it is supposedly not a full or partial match. If a sample of Tom Kaye is brought forward, he may be a match, depending on the integrity of the sample. If Tom Kaye is not a match, then the sample must be concluded to be inconclusive. But, in the perfect Crimestoppers world, Tom Kaye could be DB Cooper. In fact, any person known to have touched those lines should be a positive match.

So, could Tom Kaye be convicted of the crime? Probably not, as he doesn't fit the eyewitness description. Thus, DNA cannot be the sole determinant of Cooper identity.

But, the DNA is valuable. Maybe that's why Carr wore latex gloves?

[Farflung 0]

Smokin99 comments as a non-scientist:

” Also...if, in fact, they only tested the tie, I would love to know the thought process behind only testing it (the tie) for DNA and not other "known" areas that he touched - such as the lines.”

I simply don’t understand the angst and anger behind the very posting of these questions which are ALWAYS followed by denial. So much for the assumption that the solution is a common cause here. First the hierarchy must be established THEN the one true solution can be presented by the anointed. I’m guessing here, but I think my guess is accurate.

The lines getting ‘detangled’ may (just may here) have supplied other fibers, organic material or hairs as the 40 year old knots were opened thus releasing the items to fall upon a sheet of Kraft or butcher paper on the floor to be transferred into an envelope. This is of course, assuming there was some Kraft paper used to collect the released debris and an envelope in which to deposit those items. I’m guessing neither were used or obliquely considered, but I think my guess is accurate.

The ‘tie’ gets homage usually reserved for the ‘Shroud of Turin’ in that there are gloves, masks, hair nets, electron laser guided microscopes and things with flashing red lights to analyze its contents while the reserve lines are basically used as a prop in an East Tijuana donkey show in comparison. That’s my whopping dose of WTF.

Pek771,
The previous argument was that too many people had touched the ‘reserve lines’ (whatever that number is) for the DNA to be of any value. This presented by experts on this thread in DNA (whatever). Therefore, if there were too many people touching the lines BEFORE the ‘Citizen Sleuth Team’ what chance would there be with them grabbing the evidence bare handed? Obviously ZERO according to the thread experts on the subject. Hope that adds some context. I’m just a stupid turd-butt and not a scientific genius but I can recall past discussions.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

I clearly saw the image of Evel Kinevel in that chute.

DNA will include or exclude persons, period. If a sample of LD Cooper DNA is brought for matching, it is supposedly not a full or partial match. If a sample of Tom Kaye is brought forward, he may be a match, depending on the integrity of the sample. If Tom Kaye is not a match, then the sample must be concluded to be inconclusive. But, in the perfect Crimestoppers world, Tom Kaye could be DB Cooper. In fact, any person known to have touched those lines should be a positive match.

So, could Tom Kaye be convicted of the crime? Probably not, as he doesn't fit the eyewitness description. Thus, DNA cannot be the sole determinant of Cooper identity.

But, the DNA is valuable. Maybe that's why Carr wore latex gloves?

Or maybe not....http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/FBI-gives-new-details-on-D-B-Cooper-case-1689833.php#photo-919497 Edited to say ...click on the photo with Carr holding up a pink parachute.

Hope he didn't scratch his nose here....http://www.examiner.com/airlines-airport-in-national/d-b-cooper-the-surviving-evidence-video

Or here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14vcRAi3mhs&feature=player_embedded#!

Point being...to my Monday morning quarterbackin eye, the way the stuff gets handled looks pretty cavalier to me....just saying

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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I think any DNA from chute lines is just plain useless now.

Quote

'Too many people...sharing party lines...too many reaching for that piece of cake...'

Paul McCartney, from the album Ram. Slightly paraphrased.

Paulie disappointed me when he failed to remember that someone might only want him for his money and forgot that prenup thing that all billionaires should have committed to memory (Just a guess there).
So I'll look to Black Sabbath and the Goonies for my words of inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq5Ejw42Yog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eSl3X0brZU


Edited to say... why assume it's useless? In the best of all possible worlds...If a comparison of DNA between cut lines and tie could yield a positive, and Kaye, Carr, and other known holders of both of the aforementioned articles could be excluded based on logical assumptions (such as Carr was probably a toddler when this thing went down), what's left might (just might here) be of some benefit.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[377 22]

I've worked in several places that had machine shops. I can run a mill, a lathe, drill press and a few other machines (but not well enough to fool a journeyman machinist).

Ties were always forbidden on the shop floors as were scarves, wraps, neck jewelry and anything else that might get caught on operating machines. I remember once being asked to remove my tie when I went onto the machine shop floor to speak to one of the machinists.

How about other ways that metal turnings and particles could have got onto the tie? Sure, it's possible that even the offices at a machine shop are contaminated with stuff dragged in from the shop floor on clothing and footwear, but what about other explanations?

Why isnt the FBI all over this tie evidence and looking for sources and suspects who might have worked there?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

OK, so earlier I ‘thought’ I could see a well known, among government sponsored killers, device commonly called the ‘Congolese Special Ops Death Knot’ but after some sciency stuff have discovered my blunder.

I used some sophisticated (code for don’t ask) software and proprietary image processing techniques (which I patented along with a fur lined sink) to enhance the image of the death knot. So I decided it was time to douche-up and admit that I was wrong and it was not a death knot and simply leave the evidence for you to decide for yourselves.

[377 22]

Norman had a machine shop, still does. His chutes were taken on the plane.

What if DBCs tie got the titanium and other machined metals from Norman's rigs?

Bruce, can you ask Norman to read the complete tie findings on Tom's website and ask him whether he had been working with the listed metals prior to Norjack?

Were the chutes carried through or stored in or near the shop floor? Could they have had metals from the shop floor on their exterior?

I wish I had thought of all this, but alas, my best ideas turn out to be plagarized from Snowmman.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

How about other ways that metal turnings and particles could have got onto the tie? Sure, it's possible that even the offices at a machine shop are contaminated with stuff dragged in from the shop floor on clothing and footwear, but what about other explanations?

Why isnt the FBI all over this tie evidence and looking for sources and suspects who might have worked there?

377

How about a man engraving his own metal plates?...... for an offset press.....for his US Currency counterfeiting one-man-operation in a rented space in St. Paul, MN.

<----------

ETA: Tom Kaye states on his website:
"Cooper requested "negotiable American currency". This was the most notable line to come out of the Cooper transcripts where passengers on the plane, including the flight attendants, stated that Cooper had no distinguishable accent."

I am just speculating here - the counterfeit money confiscated from Melvin in March 1971 was not "negotiable American currency"

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins clowns around with:

“Intaglio steel plate is used to make currency dies. My usual suggestion: Ask Tom Kaye and see what he says.”

That’s funny how you combined a person’s ability to extract any element, alloy or item from a tie and then they magically become a default expert on how any of those items are used while posing as a hopeless fanboi. Good one! That made me laugh out loud.