DB Cooper

[pek771 0]

Yes, and ladies can be further impressed when you tell them you have titanium balls!
As in golf balls. Seems there is a very small amount used in the binding agents which hold those elastic-y little buggers together. Possibly no more than 20 ATOMS per ball. But, it's Titanium, direct from the Space Age. If we could do cancer research as well as we market, tumors would be a thing of the past.

When I tell people I have some 7075 T-6 in the garage, their legs get rubbery. The mere mention of Inconel-X causes sweating.

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Yes, and ladies can be further impressed when you tell them you have titanium balls!
As in golf balls. Seems there is a very small amount used in the binding agents which hold those elastic-y little buggers together. Possibly no more than 20 ATOMS per ball. But, it's Titanium, direct from the Space Age. If we could do cancer research as well as we market, tumors would be a thing of the past.

When I tell people I have some 7075 T-6 in the garage, their legs get rubbery. The mere mention of Inconel-X causes sweating.

Dream on!....Keep on advertising products and why would we need (or want) you at all?

*Rhetorical question. Waiting for a response.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

Here’s another common household titanium item that most men don’t have.

http://www.spacepen.com/blacktitaniumnitride.aspx

Why not have one of these babies in your pocket? Oh you know the ladies are going to notice that you’re packing something special. You’ll see them staring for extended periods so break the ice and whip it out. Ask her if she would like to hold it for a while, get used to the unique feel. Before you know it, she will be smiling with delight when your Titanium Pen is firmly in her grasp. Try and have a little fun with it for a change. I’m here to help.

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Here’s another common household titanium item that most men don’t have.

http://www.spacepen.com/blacktitaniumnitride.aspx

Why not have one of these babies in your pocket? Oh you know the ladies are going to notice that you’re packing something special. You’ll see them staring for extended periods so break the ice and whip it out. Ask her if she would like to hold it for a while, get used to the unique feel. Before you know it, she will be smiling with delight when your Titanium Pen is firmly in her grasp. Try and have a little fun with it for a change. I’m here to help.

Exactly...."Special" Ed.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

Always good to see that Vicki still hangs out in the weeds and when the time is right, uses her wits to tame the adolescent but technically accurate prose posted by some of us. That was ‘wits’ gentlemen, again the word was wits; not what you were thinking.

[hangdiver 1]

1) Thanks Tom and assistants for all of your work...also thanks for sharing the findings (more than I can say for some other posters...you know who you are).

2) I think it is a bit premature to try to package Cooper in a particular box due to the particles found on the tie that Cooper allegedly wore and left in seat 18E...okay...could there be a chance that Cooper took one of his supervisors ties and left it there to implicate him...???...can that be ruled out...???...I know we're talking probabilities here...now...don't let probabilities be confused with conspiracy theories...

I think the more questions you can ask yourself the better chance you have of seeing the big picture...

Although...I do realize you have to start somewhere...for sure...

I'm not dissing Tom's theories...just asking more questions.

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[skyjack71 0]

Duane worked for the company in 1970 and was laid off due to loss of production contracts. (have absolutely no clue as to what they produced and for who).
He worked as a sales person, but he would have been in the factory at times. I have the name and the address of the company, but it probably no longer exists.


Now - Down to what we have actually been doing:
Now - WHAT name was Duane using in OR, ID and WA? Try Wentz or Wenz - if the FBI does a search on that name - they might come up with a person who was a jumper or trained as a jumper and worked in association with jumpers.

That name came up in my research before, but it didn't mean anything to me until now.
Most of my research is paper - and lots of things I did NOT keep or unable to decipher my notes. I know that sometime in the last yrs. the name came up, but I knew of NO connection to Weber until now. It has also came up in the past research.

Can anyone help me with this. He may only have been in association with jumpers in the 40's but not an actual jumper or in training...he may have been CCC or Forestry Service assigned to various camps as a laborer. He may also have followed the CCC's because of association and family, but not have actually been a registered CCC.

I just cannot remember right now where the name Wentz and Wenz came up. This is a connection to WA, ID and OR...it has been in front of me for about 2 or 3 rys but, I just didn't see it. Duane was a complex man who spent what time he was NOT in Prison or jail - running from the law, often without gainful employment. Ex-con's were lucky to get a job picking apples in 1944

Georger: What was the name of that book on Smokejumpers I was reading? I copied several pages but I can't find them or even remember the name of the book at this moment. Yea, my brain is dying a little everyday.
Sometimes I can find the words - well, most of the time recently and I substituted a word or just leave the thought alone.

Right now my brain is buzzing with this new stuff and I am frantic - afraid to get behind the wheel of car to go to the corner market, until I calm down. Currently on Neurotin for the nerve pain and afraid to take anything on top of it.

Too much at one time - don't know what to do first..

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Wasn't this supposed to have been RFK's tie lifted from a hotel room by Duane?

Then it gets titanium shavings on it during his subsequent employment at a screw and bolt company.

Then he leaves it on the Norjack aircraft neatly folded awaiting FBI discovery.

Then he jumps, lands and makes his escape.

If ties could talk what tales they would tell.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

My only jet jump was in 2006 at WFFC in Rantoul Ill. out of a DC 9-21. There was a big wind blast on exit, but it wasn't super violent. There were some items lost like goggles and fanny packs, but I didn't lose anything.

Here is a recently posted account of a 727 jump over Quincy Ill. at an earlier WFFC in 1992. It gives you something to think about regarding the difficulty of keeping the Cooper loot attached. Estimated airspeed was 205 mph, but I dont know how accurate that estimate was:

Quote

I was on the first load, first pass in '92

205 MPH at exit, and we were a few miles from the airport when we landed. Locals were very friendly and gave us rides back.
Guys lost altimeters, gloves, goggles, etc. It was a wild crazy jump.
There is video I shot, floating around on YouTube somewhere.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Jerry Stated:

Quote

Are you saying that you're going to use Tom's report to build a new Story and try to implicate, Duane as a Canadian.

Jo's Answer:
No I am not indicationg Duane was Canadian - ONLY that he worked for a company (1970)with a screw and bolt company that had to cut back due to loss of contracts.

As for the Ben Gazarra tag - I did put that on the 2 second composite. Clara only mentioned that her "skyjumper" looked like Ben Gazarra, but the label for the composite I do NOT believe was ever called the Gazarra Composite until I started to call it that.

To distinguish between the 2 composites I call one the Bing Crosby Look-like and one the Gazarra look-alike so individuals would know what composite I was referencing.

I didn't invent anything just tagged items with labels so who-ever was reading it would KNOW what I was talking about. Please read and comprehend - I am often accused of jumping to conclusions - note that is what you did in this instance.

ALSO note I did NOT have anyone do the avatar and I have explained previously how the Avtar came to be.

Not having the computer ability to cut pictures in-half. I just kept on until I had the picture of Duane about the size of the composite. I printed them and then cut them in half and taped the 2 pieces toether and then scanned that. It came out pretty decent even though the pic I used of Duane had his head slightly tilted to the side as Duane did NOT want face forward photos.

In those first yrs of my search with no YOUNG pictures of Duane prior to 1978 ask a forensic artist to do an age regression. I never like the age regression and do not use it. It is not incorporated with the Avatar.

After I acquired the photo of Duane in the brown suit with the pearl tie tac - I met with this artist at the Burger King on Nine Mile Rd. (I would acquire this photo around 1998 and it was sent to me by Duane's ex-wife).

The artist looked at the picture of Duane taken in 1970 versus the FBI (Gazarra) composite and the regression he did. All I had in the beginning was Duane's old pictures and in 1998 I acquired some photos went to me by the ex-wife - even though the FBI did NOT want us TALKING to each other at all.

The words that came out of the forensic artist mouth - "the photo and the composite are the same person". Some place I have his exact words, but they are lost to me at this time in my life around 13 yrs later.

Now Jerry, I will not repeat the above again as everyone else knows it by heart. I have NOT made up any of this story and would appreciate it if you would leave me be. I have explained why I accepted the names of the places you gave me - because I had NO map of that area in those days.

Perhaps you were NOT trying to mislead me but have been stubborn. in accepting the explanations.. I tried to explain the places to you over a phone, but you told me no such places existed. I could NOT transmit over the phone in a conversation the images I was seeing in my mind. I could not give them names because I had no map.
I had to accept the names you gave me - but, when I stepped foot into WA in 2001 I knew the names you gave the place where NOT right.

You were unable to READ my mind or see the visions in my head and I was unable to transport those images to you.
I should have made a trip to WA in 1998, but I had not the means to do so at that time. Had I been able to do so - you and I would have found the places together, but unfortunately you became Mule Headed and we even argued on the phone about these things.

You forget I kept telling you "NO that we where NOT on the Columbia" and you insisted Duane turned me around.

1. If I was talking about the Columbia then explain to me how or why we argued about the Washougal and modular looking homes and or cabins I saw on the N.E. bend?
2. Why did we talk about a place in the Washougal loop where the guys used to go?
3. Why did we talk about a log cabin in that area?
4. Why did we talk about 2 cemetaries?
5.How many time did I tell you that before we crossed a bridge that we went right past a brick building and to a cemetary and a road that went to a logging (whatever)?
6. Why did we talk about what I thought was a Boy's Scout camp or camping grounds where only the foundation to one of what had been 3 cabins was left?
7. I detailed how it looked. There was a point and with a steep drop-off down to the water. That the water did not run like the Washougal - it was a lazy river (now I know it was not a river but a lake).

There were some things on the Columbia but those where on the return trip after we spent a few days in Seattle. You are mixing up the trip to Seattle with the trip leaving Seattle.

On the return trip is when we went to the Columbia 4 different times. (hence why I knew were we went on the trip to Seattle WAS NOT the Columbia).

On the return trip there is a detour I did NOT even tell you about because I didn't remember it until I was behind the wheel of car retracting that trip on my own without anyone to say - it was this or that (all I did was work my memories and remembered what I saw). That side trip was a eye opener, because I was able to connect the beginng to the ending (some day if you are civil I will explain that). I was also able to connect time and space - in my memory.
Memory condensed time to help you retain things.

The return trip was when he went down a steep incline and I stayed in the car. When we got out at the Green tank and then to another area on the West side of the highway and then to the Red Lion.

At the Red Lion Duane threw a bag in the water and he left me in the car at another stop - while he went down to the water. My memory had thought this IRON bridge going to Portland was were he threw something out of the car - but when I was there in 2010 on my own and driving and with my own money I crossed that bridge and immediately KNEW that was not where he threw something out of the car (hence back to the part I am keeping to myself for right now).

It was after we left the Red Lion that we crossed the bridge into Portland (the first time in my life I was ever in Portland) - I remember things like that. This is when we went East along the river and his pointing out things to me but we did NOT stop. The building near the airport where someone left a car, a small airport, an industrial area, the hidden marina on the other side of the river and the story about the boy who stole a boat.

Just past that point is when he turns around and tell me we are going to Tahoe. I wanted to know if we could afford to do so and he claimes the office gave him a cash prize!. We head to Tahoe, but only after he points out Gresham and he knew someone who lived there. We do NOT take the interstate to Tahoe but head down thru the hills.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Wasn't this supposed to have been RFK's tie lifted from a hotel room by Duane?

Then it gets titanium shavings on it during his subsequent employment at a screw and bolt company.

Then he leaves it on the Norjack aircraft neatly folded awaiting FBI discovery.

Then he jumps, lands and makes his escape.

If ties could talk what tales they would tell.

377

As ridiculous as that sounds - that may very well be how it was.
Maybe the Tie was a Good Luck tie? I often thought if the tie was RFK's why did he leave it other than the tie and tac would tell his family who he was if he didn't survive. This is NOT the first time I have proposed this.

As for the metal shavings - I felt it important I let these sleuths know what I know about Duane's past. Are they significant or are they not?

Now, you can make fun of me all you want - but, I only tell what I know and think. I tried to provide any information I might have in my memory that might possible bring this story to an end......

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

As ridiculous as that sounds - that may very well be how it was.

Well at least you see that it does appear ridiculous, that's prgress Jo. I think it is a few steps beyond ridiculous, but thats just my skeptical point of view.

Quote

Maybe the Tie was a Good Luck tie?

If it was a good luck tie leaving it on the plane was not too bright.

Quote

I often thought if the tie was RFK's why did he leave it other than the tie and tac would tell his family who he was if he didn't survive.

The tie and tac are not distinctive enough to convey this message to anyone.

Quote

This is NOT the first time I have proposed this.

Agree, we've seen the RFK tie claim quite a few times.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

But Vicki's dilemma may trump all. What must it be like to have LE stonewall your inquiries about one's own father? Whew. That kind of pain is hard to imagine, and is probably doubled because they might not know anything even if they wanted to share.

Not just Vicki but many others who would just like to see the records the FBI has on their family member. Duane could not collect on the John Collins part of his SS when he applied for benefits and I could not apply on the John Collins. because the FBI would NOT provide me with that information so I could do so.
The FBI HOLD the ONLY information that would confirm that Duane L Weber and John C. Collins are one and the same. Until they do this - I cannot prove I am the widow of John C. Collins.

Since I draw on my last husband it is now a mute point, but it really GETS me that the FBI will allow these men to view the FBI files - Men who wish ONLY to gain monetarily and to increase their status in their fields or to be the person who finds the information that GETs Cooper.

Yet, the information the FBI needed has been there for 40 yrs and for at least 15, but the FBI refused to look.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Quote

Duane worked for the company in 1970 and was laid off due to loss of production contracts.

The company?

What company?

Name it.

[georger 244]

Quote

My only jet jump was in 2006 at WFFC in Rantoul Ill. out of a DC 9-21. There was a big wind blast on exit, but it wasn't super violent. There were some items lost like goggles and fanny packs, but I didn't lose anything.

Here is a recently posted account of a 727 jump over Quincy Ill. at an earlier WFFC in 1992. It gives you something to think about regarding the difficulty of keeping the Cooper loot attached. Estimated airspeed was 205 mph, but I dont know how accurate that estimate was:

Quote

I was on the first load, first pass in '92

205 MPH at exit, and we were a few miles from the airport when we landed. Locals were very friendly and gave us rides back.
Guys lost altimeters, gloves, goggles, etc. It was a wild crazy jump.
There is video I shot, floating around on YouTube somewhere.

377

Dont forget, the Boeing guys ran numbers on
stresses and everything else. (according to my
Boeing sources - they could be all liars! I dont know)

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

but it really GETS me that the FBI will allow these men to view the FBI files - Men who wish ONLY to gain monetarily and to increase their status in their fields or to be the person who finds the information that GETs Cooper.

It's an old story Jo, white guys with connections get all the breaks.

The FBI's practice of annointing a chosen few with special Norjack file review priviliges is wrong. We sure agree on that.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

the Red Lion.

At the Red Lion Duane threw a bag in the water

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

Duane worked for the company in 1970 and was laid off due to loss of production contracts.

The company?

What company?

Name it.

Jo, What Social Security Number did Duane use with the John Collins name?

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Duane worked for the company in 1970 and was laid off due to loss of production contracts.

The company?

What company?

Name it.

The company?

What company?

Name it.The company?

What company?

Name it.
The company?

What company?

Name it.


Jo, What Social Security Number did Duane use with the John Collins name?

The company?

What company?

Name it.

The company?

What company?

Name it.

The company?

What company?

Name it.
The company?

What company?

Name it.The company?

What company?

Name it.
The company?

What company?
The company?

What company?

Name it.

Name it.

The company?

What company?

Name it.

[Orange1 0]

Off topic but Jo keeps bringing this up - about wanting to claim on Duane's ss under John Collins, when she is already claiming for her last husband.
What is this? You can claim for every husband you had? If e.g. there were 4 husbands and each of them had 2 wives, can you really get a total of 8 claims? How is it even ethical to claim on more than one? No wonder the US budget is in such a mess if this is the type of stuff that goes on.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Blevins wrote

Quote

Welcome to the Reality Hotel.

Jo has a friend who works there, night clerk I think.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Off topic but Jo keeps bringing this up - about wanting to claim on Duane's ss under John Collins, when she is already claiming for her last husband.
What is this? You can claim for every husband you had? If e.g. there were 4 husbands and each of them had 2 wives, can you really get a total of 8 claims? How is it even ethical to claim on more than one? No wonder the US budget is in such a mess if this is the type of stuff that goes on.

Jo isn't trying to double dip. I think she indicated that when she said the SS issue with Collins was moot due to her now receiving survivor benefits on her (most recent) deceased husband's SS account. SS is a mess, but we can't blame Jo for that.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Off topic but Jo keeps bringing this up - about wanting to claim on Duane's ss under John Collins, when she is already claiming for her last husband.
What is this? You can claim for every husband you had? If e.g. there were 4 husbands and each of them had 2 wives, can you really get a total of 8 claims? How is it even ethical to claim on more than one? No wonder the US budget is in such a mess if this is the type of stuff that goes on.

Orange, I am starting with your post because it was inappropriate and you obviously have no concept of widows benefits. Duane died in 1995 and he drew SS on his name but could NOT claim the 6 yrs he spent as John Collins.

When I turned 62 I was eligible to draw widows benefits which I did because my health insurance was so expensive. My health insurance took most of the benefit. When I was 65 I was eligible to draw on my own number which was more and I got medicare, but I had remarried. Having remarried I was eligible to draw on my current spouse of the time.. No you do NOT draw on more than one spouse.

I now draw widows benefits off of my last husband - but not off of Duane or my benefits. What is unfair is that several wives can draw against one man. If a man had 4 wives and he was married to them at least 10 yrs - each one of them can draw against his benefits. That is NOT fair! If you divorce a man and he remarries - why should his benefits support a wife who left him for another man? It is understandable if the marriage produced children who where minors at the time of death.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo,

What was the name of the screw and bolt company and where was it located? Are you dodging Georger's questions?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

Off topic but Jo keeps bringing this up - about wanting to claim on Duane's ss under John Collins, when she is already claiming for her last husband.
What is this? You can claim for every husband you had? If e.g. there were 4 husbands and each of them had 2 wives, can you really get a total of 8 claims? How is it even ethical to claim on more than one? No wonder the US budget is in such a mess if this is the type of stuff that goes on.

Orange, I am starting with your post because it was inappropriate and you obviously have no concept of widows benefits. Duane died in 1995 and he drew SS on his name but could NOT claim the 6 yrs he spent as John Collins.

When I turned 62 I was eligible to draw widows benefits which I did because my health insurance was so expensive. My health insurance took most of the benefit. When I was 65 I was eligible to draw on my own number which was more and I got medicare, but I had remarried. Having remarried I was eligible to draw on my current spouse of the time.. No you do NOT draw on more than one spouse.

I now draw widows benefits off of my last husband - but not off of Duane or my benefits. What is unfair is that several wives can draw against one man. If a man had 4 wives and he was married to them at least 10 yrs - each one of them can draw against his benefits. That is NOT fair! If you divorce a man and he remarries - why should his benefitssupport a wife who left him for another man?

Why should I have to spell this out to someone who does not live in the states? I only do so because I do NOT use the system the way other's do. If my last spouse had a wife who divorced him after 10yr and her new spouse dies and the spouse she divorced dies - she can draw the highest amount...even though she did him wrong and they divorced. NOW that is NOT fair. When you divorce someone - you should NOT be entitled to their benefits...unless there are minor children.

In other words reap what you sow.

Jo, In post number 28181 you claimed that you had copies of W-2s for Duane's employment by a nut and bolt company just prior to November 1971 as well as copies of the tax returns on which those W-2s were reported.

You also claimed that Sluggo visited your house and saw those W-2s and tax returns.

Georger has asked you for the name of the company that appears on those W-2s. All you have to do is read the information on those forms. Who issued the W-2s? They are the equivalent of todays 1099s (or whatever it is).

Also, if you have the SSN that Duane used as John Collins, you can get an earnings report for that number from the Social Security Administration.

The above actions are as simple as it can get. So there is no excuse for you to now claim otherwise. Put up or shut up!