DB Cooper

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Marla has stated that Dewey and LD had both gone through recent divorces and were living at her grandmother's in late 71. How long does it take for an 8 year old to get the impression that uncle was obsessed with a comic book?

Where is this information that Marla stated...Do you have an article or was this personally relayed to you in a conversation?

Here is your clicky: http://youtu.be/qagMRM5hF0I

In addition, I do not remember what I was obsessed with at the age of 8 or what was pinned to my walls, color of the curtains, what my friends were obsessed with, let alone what anyone in my family was obsessed with.

So how long does it take for an eight year old to get that impression over an Uncle's obsession? Did Marla also live at her grandmother's home? Or was she visiting the few days over the holidays. Did she try to take the comic and read it? Did LD yell and scream at her to stay away from his treasured obsession? How does this old memory become so vivid?

Did L.D. Cooper speak/read/write French? Did he leave to go turkey hunting in a suit? Where is the briefcase or the clothing he wore?

I understand the media only uses what they believe people want to hear or highlight the story. If you know more or can answer any of these questions, then by all means...the floor is yours.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Quote

Marla has stated that Dewey and LD had both gone through recent divorces and were living at her grandmother's in late 71. How long does it take for an 8 year old to get the impression that uncle was obsessed with a comic book?

"The Columbia was dredged off Tena Bar in 1974. After Ingram found the money six years later, a geologist examined the site and said the bills were found on top of the dredge material, meaning they must have gotten there after 1974."

According to Marla the uncles argued about the hijacking and LD stayed away after the holidays a year later. The brothers became very worried about being caught and believed the FBI was after them. That would explain why some of the money was buried later, near a spot where LD had lived. It was to try and clear the trail.

Remember that the 727 placard was found in the area where the FBI thought Cooper jumped. The money was found years after the hijacking in an area where people fish. The conclusion is that it couldn't have got there naturally.

My video.

http://youtu.be/qagMRM5hF0I

What money? Taken from the same ABC News article I referenced in my last post he supposedly lost the money: http://abcnews.go.com/US/db-cooper-exclusive-niece-provide-key-evidence/story?id=14219052#.TtJVQrLTqKv

Quote

It later became clear, however, that there was no money. It is believed that the hijacker lost much of the cash as he came crashing down.

and

Quote

Marla Cooper says that her two uncles wanted to return to search for the cash, but her father refused. She believes this was because the FBI search was just beginning to take shape.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[EVickiW 0]

arfuller responded to me in PM. With his consent here is the following response:


arfuller pm's:

Quote

Have been unable to post in the forum, but here is my reply.

The information is in the uncut Daily OK interview where she explains why she thinks her uncles did the skyjack. She says the last time she saw LD was either that Xmas, or the Xmas a year later. I would have to watch the interview again to be sure. That's when the Xmas picture of LD was taken. To me he looks just like the 72 depiction of DB Cooper. Her father was afraid of being accused of the crime. She says he looked even more like the DB depiction than LD did. There was a lot of tension between the brothers about the hijacking, and they didn't see each other again not long after the incident.

She says he lost the money on the way down and was going back to find it. I think the river bank money shows that they did, but maybe months or years later.

I so politely asked: Do you mind if I post this in the forum for you.....? and if you could, please send the link to the uncut video.

arfuller responds:

Quote

Please do. Still can't post to the forum.

http://newsok.com/marla-cooper-uncut/multimedia/video/1095753368001

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[377 22]

First place in the poetry contest went to Nun of the Above which has to be one of the cleverest titles ever. Farf's poem read with great flair by Bruce Smith.

The crowd loved it, huge laughter and clapping as Bruce delivered the last line.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

First place in the poetry contest went to Nun of the Above which has to be one of the cleverest titles ever. Farf's poem read with great flair by Bruce Smith.

The crowd loved it, huge laughter and clapping as Bruce delivered the last line.

377

YAY! WTG Farflung! Well deserved....What is the prize? NUN?

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

Well that’s flattering to know that some people enjoyed my stupid, little, multi-syllabic, disjointed non-diction prose at the symposium. It really is like intellectual heroin and makes me feel very happy or is that the Hindenburg in my pocket (down boy, DOWN!)?

Thanks Hunkettes for forcing me to do something that I’m too shy to try……again…… and again. Vicki dressing like a nun is always an inspiration and smokin99 getting out of those Blevins induced BVDs; in favor of a little, French cut number in turquoise silk and buff colored lace only adds to the mystique. Gawd you chicks are hot.

For Bruce to get on stage and pull this off is more of a feat than most can imagine. There must be a thousand ways to phuq up and around one and a half to do it right. I salute Bruce for the success and courage to face such a beast.

I’m glad some people could have fun and a giggle while I continued to work on my Tina shrine and grill.

[377 22]

Musika Farnsworth has written a lot about skydiving topics including articles about McCoy and Cooper for Parachutist. She is the opposite of a publicity seeker. I only discovered by accident that she was in the audience at the symposium. She is a lovely, soft spoken and apparently shy young woman. She had no inclination to present anything even though she had published on the Norjack subject and is a skydiver as well. Fancy that, an expert who stays in the shadows, not the norm here.

I asked her if she thought Cooper landed alive and she was in the Jerry Thomas camp: DBC= DOA. Musika thinks he may have impacted at terminal velocity and literally buried himself in rain soaked ground. Is that possible? I am not a soil mechanics expert.

Gotta give Geoff some major credit for putting this event on at what had to be considerable expense. The symposium was well done in all respects: Entertaining and informative.

Jerry was as warm and friendly as could be and had no bad words to say about anyone. Jo posted that Jerry was not welcome at the Ariel Tavern but you could have fooled me. Donna, the owner and hostess, greeted him very warmly. Jerry introduced me to Donna and they seemed like old friends. Jerry and I cordially debated Coopers fate (off stage). He sees Cooper going in at 120 mph and I have him descending under an open C9 round canopy. He thinks my pull of the stairs jump technique would work but that there is zero evidence that Cooper knew and used it. I did agree with him that a high speed exit and free fall at night with a bag attached is a spin recipe.

One very interesting thing came out from a retired FBI agent in the audience who participated in helicopter searches that were performed "weeks" after Norjack. His description of the terrain searched was not mostly flat farmland but rugged and mountainous. That doesn't match the terrain under the "pressure bump" estimated exit point. Could the FBI have been looking in Jerry's Death Woods area?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

377 Your poem wasn't bad either. Enjoy that 20 dollar bill. Vicki, Melvin is still in the running. The washougal theory won out in the end.It just so happened that a Retired FBI agent attended and verified the flight path. It shocked Tom Kaye . To bad it didn't come out untill the end of the cofference. Jo don't threat over Marla Cooper. Her uncle was not Cooper and neither was Duane. Jerry

[Farflung 0]

I would agree that Geoff Gray deserves credit for crafting a dais of DB Cooper invitees where the full spectrum of all things Cooper were reviewed. I was surprised, in the best of ways to see that the company known as “Kick Ass Oregon History” was in attendance.

I would like to see their contribution since listening to their performance of what happened to DB Cooper was Fellini-esque in presentation while being Shelby Foote-ian in accuracy. OK, I’ll admit that those guys push every button I’ve got….. with one notable exception.

[skyjack71 0]

I tried to post a couple of times today to ask questions, but was not able to do so. Do not know if the problem has been solved so this is just to see the post will appear.

Too sick to do much about anything right now. Marla Cooper researched me - she used my exact words that I have used for yr. "I know what I know and I have not changed my story".

Check out the phrase in this thread - and the one with 101. I made some really good posts, but they did NOT go thru. Had 2 really bad days and not because of Cooper. A scary reaction of medication - tongue swoll up an consumed my mouth and breathing. I was never so frightened of dying in my life and I thought this was it. That was Friday night (Sat morning about 2:45). Better today, but very very sore and very very exhausted.

Well, it did post.

P.S. Marla's Uncle was NOT Cooper. Too young and her memories are of an 8 yr old from a family whose name was Cooper. This was a family thing during those days and NOT something anyone would have talked about if they had any connections to the incident.

We all know why Dan Cooper was the chosen name - and it had nothing to do with Cooper Comics. It had to do with Mann Gulch and that was the grude. The old indian ways were NOT taught to the jumpers and lives were lost. History was ignored.

There was an individual at the symposium who kept a low key and for a very very good reason.
The search for John Collins is NOT over...nor is the investigation into Duane Lorin Weber. The FBI is NOT investigating anyone and that includes Marla Coopers - uncle.

How convenient a suitcase pops up - wonder how many people have handled that suit case and its contents. Surely the Uncle if he was Cooper would have kept some souveniers.

Good night!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

The Symposium, Nov 26, 2011


Sunday afternoon:

Just got home to Eatonville, WA, from the Symposium. A quick overview:

Cast of Characters:

1. 377 and his lovely wife. They look so compatible. Thoughtful, substantive and eager to avoid the limelight. “Please don’t publish that picture.” Mark’s presentation on DBC’s parachute, C-9 canopies, 10,000 pages of Boeing’s field testing on using the 727 as a jump platform – it was all outstanding. He even brought an NB 8 for us to try on. After the auction, 377 and Mrs. 377 now own a Cooper $20. In exchange they are giving the Gifford Pinchot National Forrest Task Force, $3,100. A number of us pushed him about “Who is Snowmman?” but 377 never cracked. He did say that Snowmman is a really nice guy, however, and if you met Snow you’d never know the other side of his personality.

2. Jerry Thomas and Shelly were there, and Jerry got plenty of media attention. Ralph was scheduled to attend, but canceled due to ill health. He’s 86, remember. JT was “the man in black,” and carried the torch for the Cooper is dead/FBI perspective.

3. Hangdiver and his honey bun were there and at Ariel. Never got her full name – only the goof: “Raspberry Moon…”

4. Geoffrey and his entourage of helpers, Steve and Ben. Great gathering and I am glad that it will continue in the years to come, as Geoff has “passed the tie” to Doug Kenck-Crispin, of Oregon History. Geoff was a wonderful host – caring, considerate and most hospitable. I put his feet to the fire about the timing of his book’s release with the Marla-FBI flap, but he went to the wall saying it was all a co-incidence. Hmmm. Nevertheless, I felt truly respected by Geoff, and at the end of the symposium he said from the podium that he hopes I “never stop digging and asking the tough questions,” as I recall….

5. Tom Kaye and Carol Abracadabra – she didn’t seem to mind my streamlining her name, and she is Lithuanian heritage, same as me. My mother’s side of the family came over on the boat: “Zizinckas.” Tom fooled me and didn’t talk about Titanium, but rather the Flight Path. Excellent presentation. It seems Tom has virtually re-examined and re-invented his entire perspective on the case. From Washougal to propellers to “Bubba.” Cooper lives. More to come in a separate report. Major information and analysis. BTW: Tom is an excellent auctioneer.

BTW II: The CST didn’t find Ti sponge, but rather the metallic form.

6. Carol is one sharp cookie, and I loved the Cooper Comix Show, but a voice in my head kept saying. WTF does it all mean???? By the way, Carol, I had an aunt who lived in Belgium and she pronounced the little village where Dan Cooper comics author A. Weinberg lived, as “Lee – Ehge,” not Leeghe. (Liege.)

7. Alan Stone accompanied them, and the trio was wholly professional and gracious all through the weekend.

8. Brian Ingram looks exactly like his pictures and everybody loves him. He is a down-to-earth kind of guy, and was always available to talk with anyone at anytime, from pesky reporters on an elevator ride down from the 17th Floor at the Hilton to the main stage at the Ariel Tavern. I loved meeting Brian, and I learned lots. I’ll have a full report shortly, as his information on what he found, and didn’t find is essential and powerful. Brian brought his new bride along and their 6-week old baby girl, Rebecca. Kid slept most of the way through the symposium, as far as I could tell.

9. Musika Farnsworth was enchanting even though she busted my chops all through lunch, claiming that DBC cratered and hit so hard in the wet muck of Cascadia that he penetrated deeply into the soil and buried himself. Musika loves tidy packages such this; after lunch she went off to Nordstrom’s for Christmas shopping. Her name is pronounced Moosh-i-ka. Hungarian. She’s really cute, too. Her piece on Cooper is the most read, most-requested, and most commentated piece by far at Parachutist Magazine. Mooshy gave me the distinct feeling that she feels I am critically deficient somehow because I don't go skydiving. Next time, I'll let her knock first on Tina's door....

10. Barb Dayton’s daughter, Rena Ruddell, and Barb’s buddies Ron and Pat Forman were there and delivered a lengthy interview with NBC for the Today show before going on stage at the Symposium. They were very nervous and deliberate, but they conveyed their story. They gave me a ride down and back from Eatonville, and we had a great time.

11. Karen Truitt was ever-present. Karen’s father was a passenger on 305, and Karen feels her dad wanted to apologize to Tina for some reason, and she asked for my assistance in contacting Ms. Mucklow. I suggested she explore other options, so she’s gonna call Jo….

12. Marla. Everybody I know fell in love with Marla. She was smart, funny, cute, vivacious, and owned the stage. Big smile. Big hair. Big red lips! Later, 377 pulled me aside at the Ariel Tavern and said, “Bruce, you really need to get yourself a good-looking blonde to be your intern, and …., well I didn’t hear too much after that because, well the band was pretty loud and I began envisioning future possibilities.

But regarding Marla, the LE who put the LD Cooper dossier on top of the pile at Curtis’ desk were two guys from the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. They worked over a year putting together the evidence and the FBI has been investigating LD Cooper for about a year or so. They have a fresh set of prints to compare and will have a status report on Lynn Doyle by spring, according to Marla.

The FBI clearly loves Marla and her uncles, as she described a significant amount of contact with the Bureau – lots of phone calls, emails and questions. Curtis even sent an agent down to Tina’s with a pix of LD. Marla says that Curtis says that Tina says that their LD pix is the best pix yet.

LD and Marla certainly have all the good Cooper vortex credentials as LD died in 1999 just a few miles down the road from Tina. Plus, LD had been living with a minister named Dale, who has been working as a professional Santa Claus since LD helped him buy a used red suit back when.

It is clear that Marla believes her story, loves her story, and is jazzed by it all. Yes, a couple little problems still remain, such as no one knows if LD ever went skydiving, but the story elements – particularly the family drama of drinking, violence and disappearance, and Marla’s coping and recovery - are fantastic.

I’ll have a report on Marla and her story, particularly looking more into the activity of the LE guys. I’ve got one name, and the other guy is an undercover operative so deep that Marla says she doesn’t even know who it is.

*****************

Overall, the symposium was a substantive and professional presentation. Lots of information and fertile discussion. It was superb, and in my opinion the FBI made a serious error in not participating. It felt like the momentum in the DB Cooper investigation has switched to private hands rather than being an FBI-led affair. Yes, they have all the evidence, but Tom Kaye told me a couple times that he feels that more information has been gathered by private means in the past couple years than all the efforts put forth by the FBI in the early days of the case.

Further, I feel that many current investigators have rejected many aspects of the FBI perspectives – the choice of chute, the meaning of the money find, did Cooper live, meaning of no body or chute find, etc. The FBI has lost the narrative arc – the first time I have seen that happen at any level of public safety in my five years of journalism.

Thank you, Geoffrey Gray, for gathering us together. Truly. This weekend was so exciting I have barely slept in days due to excitement. It has been like being a kid on Christmas Eve for three days.

Geoff apparently funded it all, as the symposium was free and included lunch. A remarkable gift to us all. Again, thank you, Geoff.

Lastly, thanks, Farflung, for the opportunity to read your poem, “Nun of the Above.” It was an honor and a great joy.

[377 22]

Marla Cooper showed considerable courage attending a symposium full of skeptics and Cooperites who have their own favorite candidates. No press agent or handlers, just Marla, and she answered every question except one regarding a fingerprint source, implying that the FBI asked that it not be revealed. She said the FBI gave her a very lengthy polygraph test which she passed.

In person Marla looks even better than her photos. There were a lot of whispered comments about why male FBI agents pay so much attention to her, but that's kinda unfair. She came across as sincere. I do not believe that she is consciously fabricating anything. As Bruce commented Marla owned the stage. She was disarming. I did not expect to like her or find here sincere and the opposite happened.

You all know that I long for Cooper to have used two way radios to rendezvous with a ground accomplice. Marla's story had this element so of course I am drawn to it. What is interesting is that when I proposed some questions about radio details (antenna type) she stopped me and said no need to quiz me, I'll just describe the antenna. She described perfectly the CB walkie talkie antenna used on 71 vintage sets. She also knew how much they cost and the range obtained when LD and Dewey tested them on the ground. Both were right on the numbers. Her description (in a post presentation conversation) of the grille on the front led me to believe that they were Midland brand 5 watt units, a type which Blevins is familiar with. None of this proves anything at all about LDC being DBC, but her radio story doesn't have a single "gotcha" glitch. Not one.

When you consider that Cooper did not command any particular flight path (other than flying to Reno) then the chances of a successful rendezvous with a ground accomplice are extraordinarily low, bordering on impossible. Neither LD or his accomplice Dewey had enough aviation knowledge to have bet on a certain Victor Airway being flown.

She also can't put LD in a chute. She does put him around Snohomish WA which had a DZ that offered training, but she has produced no solid evidence that shows he received parachuting instruction.

I see holes in Marla's story not due to untruthfulness, just due to a mismatch with what we know about the case. I'd like to see someone besides her confirm that LD spoke French. The Dan Cooper comic part of her story is just too perfect. It needs further scrutiny.

Let's see what happens on the FBI's glacial paced fingerprint analysis. If LD turns out to have been DBC and did get ideas from Dan Cooper comics it would be an extraordinary affirmation of Snowmman's genius.

Everybody wanted the inside scoop on Snow's ID. I might have told Marla had she asked, but she didnt. Nobody else could break 377. Two people asked if Snow was attending incognito.

Carol's presentation on Dan Cooper comics was outstanding. So detailed and well organized. It focused on "The Minos Affair" issue but included many others. I so wished Snow had been there. I'd love to have heard Carol and Snow discuss the incredible coincidences between Norjact facts and Cooper comic details. Bless Carol's heart for obtaining permission to present copyrighted clips from Dan Cooper comics. I am pretty cavalier about copyright issues on the forum. Carol is an award winning artist and copyrights matter to her. BTW I saw some of her scientific illustrations and was knocked out by the detail and realism. No wonder the University of Chicago hired her as their top gun.

Tom surprised me by focusing on the flight path not tie-tanium. The presentation was really cogent and used Google Earth to its full potential, even showing the line of sight limits of three relevant SAGE network radars with respect to the reported altitude and position of the Norjack plane. I think Sluggo (who was deeply missed by everyone) would have approved. If Tom is correct on his Cooper exit swath, a dead body would have been found had Cooper been a no pull.

I got a kick out of talking with Tom and Alan (a metallurgist). Between them they own three scanning electron microscopes. Snow would have enjoyed Tom's tales about maintaining his earlier model scope that uses a multitude of boards populated with ancient 7400 series TTL chips. In person Tom is a very friendly guy who has an open mind and is not dogmatic. When the retired FBI agent in the audience recounted helicopter searches he flew on over terrain far rougher than Tom's projected landing area, Tom welcomed the information rather than rejecting it.

Jerry's eyes lit up as this retired agent's search description, if accurate, shows the FBI was having serious doubts about their "official" Norjack 727 flight path. The area he described sure sounded like Jerry's stomping grounds.

Brian Ingram is Cooper royalty, but modest and a very nice guy. I liked him a lot. I think everybody did. He doesn't spin his money find story. He remembers only as much detail as you'd expect from an 8 year old. He seems to be doing OK running a small construction business, married to an attractive woman who was by his side all the time with their adorable 6 week old baby: Rebecca.

The Barb Dayton folks (the Foremans) came across as 100% sincere. If they are right about Barb, the LGBT crowd may have a new super hero. Ron maintains and pilots a classic Fairchild 24 radial engined tail dragger so of course I liked him.

377 (to be continued)

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

I had a great time chatting with Bruce whose writing I admire. He digs deep and puts feet on the street. He has a great sense of humor and is critical and sharp. I don't think Bruce is as easily fooled as I might be. I wish Farf could have heard Bruce's reading of Nun of the Above. Bruce must have done some acting in the past. The delivery was very impressive.

I met Robert Blevins at Ariel and liked him at once. He isn't getting rich off of DB Cooper and just seeks the truth, even if it shoots down KC. He rubs some folks the wrong way but not me. Galen Cook rubs him the wrong way, big time. I honestly don't understand why Robert gets so much hostility here.

Karen (whose father was on the flight with DB Cooper) was there with her mate Coleman Brown, a noted Seattle musician who grew up with Jimi Hendrix. I've always wondered about Jimi Hendrix's lyric "excuse me while I kiss the sky" was related to his parachuting experience (Hendrix was an Army paratrooper). Coleman said yes. Not only was the lyric about parachuting but Hendrix told him that the inspiration for the whooshing guitar sounds was from the noises be heard when he exited the jump aircraft. Coleman worked at Boeing in the late 60s and installed control surfaces on 727s. We chatted about flap torque tubes, pressure equalization ports and many other 727 details. Karen is a friend of Jo's and talks with her frequently.

377 (more later)

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

When you consider that Cooper did not command any particular flight path (other than flying to Reno) then the chances of a successful rendezvous with a ground accomplice are extraordinarily low,

And, of course that is wrong. Entirely wrong. I'm
surprised at you. I thought you passed this course
ages ago. We gave you a degree.

While Cooper did not command a flight path he
did command a destination. People seem to be
forgetting this - all too conveniently for the sake of
their 'theories'. The one limits the others, which
Cooper may or may not have intended, as Sluggo
points out.

Cooper informed everyone through Schaffner right
from the start that he wanted to go anywhere in
Mexico, that the plane "can land anywhere in
Mexico", but may not "land anywhere in the USA".

This was put aside due to the immediate crisis,
and not addressed again until around 8:21pm ...
as the transcripts show.

But that 'is' the orgin of "WANTS MONEY IN
NEGOTIABLE USA CURRENCY DENOMINATION OF
BILLS NOT IMPORTANT" - which were Scott's words,
and Scott's or someone else's extrapolation based
on Cooper's terse note, Cooper;s brief discussion
with Schaffner, and Scott's understanding from what
Schaffner had explained; not Cooper's words
verbatum!

Those words "negotiable usa currency" do not appear
in any other context or document, transcript, in any
FBI 302 (according to Ckret), or in Cooper's note, -
nowhere else but in this brief passage top of page
89 in the PI Transcript!

If you recall, 377, both you and Snowmman
questioned Ckret about this and he never replied to
your queries specifically. Then he did say as a
general premise, quote June 24 2008:

"In regard to the various logs that are out there, I
think it would be a mistake to take any of them on
face value, especially those dealing with Cooper and
his demands. All communication came through
Mucklow and Schaffner, to the cockpit, to flight ops.
No doubt each took their turn to apply their
understanding as to what was being communicated."

Cooper had it perfectly clear he originally wanted to
go to any place in Mexico "nonstop" with "no
landings in the USA" - period. And he used the
word "nonstop" specifically.

Sorry Carol: Artistic license is not allowed here.
You are off on a revisionist wild goose chase which
does not meet the test of facts or documentation.
It is simply your guess and your guess is wrong.

Mexico City as a specific destination only comes
again later ~8:21pm as a specific destination in
Mexico, which as we all know was changed to Reno -
after much argumentation I might add. Cooper was
growing very anxious. That is also documented.
But the original destination spoken by Cooper
was: anywhere in Mexico.

That is fully documented.

Sluggo is fully aware of this fact, btw. Sluggo pointed
out in his post #909 Feb 18 2008, that the closest
airport available 'anywhere in Mexico' from SEA is
"east" of V23 ! How about them appels?

Ok, now H and Jerry (and perhaps Rat) contend 305
was "east" of V23. That would conform with Cooper's
original demand to go to Mexico. Who knows how
this fits into their equation for the flight path and
how or why? It shouldnt. But does it, for any reason?
It is an interesting factual correspondence which has
a 1:1 correspondence with Cooper's original
demand. Maybe H, Jerrym, and Rat all suffer
memory loss?

But, you and Marla talk about Cooper using radios?
Who is Cooper going to call from Washington or
Oregon to: Gen Abelardo L. Rodriguez International
Airport just across the border from Brown Field
Municipal Airport in Chula Vista, California (the closet
possible airport in Mexico) on his Midland 5-watter ?
Who did Marla's uncle know in Mexico, and how did
he plan to negotiate things there!? The test for
Marla just gets tougher and tougher. Marla must now
account for why her uncle originally asked to
go 'anywhere in Mexico', which is a universal fact of
this case ?

Cooper never said: "negotiable usa currency".
Scott said that (or some teletype operator) and it
only appears at the top of the PI Transcript and
nowhere else. Any other connection being claimed
is specious. It may have been something in regard
to Cooper wanting to go to another country, it may
have been somebody being over-zealous wanting to
dot every 'i' and cross every 't' in communicating
instructions to Seattle, or it may be a fluke - we
dont even know who said it much less why.

These words by themselves do not certify Cooper
was a Canadian. There are other equally plausible
alternatives, including the possibility Cooper was
an American who knew not to ask for pesos because
US dollars would be worth more in Mexico!

Exactly how did Cooper plan to handle things if they
landed anywhere in Mexico, Did he think Mexican
authorities would let him just walk away? Its a little
nutty on its face. He obviously planed to bail
somewhere else, I guess.

[georger 244]

Quote

I had a great time chatting with

Tom & Carol state:

"Cooper requested "negotiable American currency". This was the most notable line to come out of the Cooper transcripts where passengers on the plane, including the flight attendants, stated that Cooper had no distinguishable accent. Since no American citizen would use those terms, it suggests that Cooper was not originally from this country. If he was from another country, then his lack of accent points to French Canada as one of the few places in the world where you could hail from and not have an accent. The French Canadians without accents are the Franco-Manitobans, the Franco-Albertans, and possibly the Franco-Ontarians. They would be likely to not have an accent when speaking English. These communities live in a predominantly anglophone environment and tend to become native speakers. This also lines up with the fact that the Dan Cooper comic was only published in French, making Cooper's unusual request very interesting."

I had no idea Coral and Tom & Allan were experts
in Linguistics, too! Is there anything out of their
reach?

Lets ask the UCLA Dept of Linguistics.

[georger 244]

I met Robert Blevins at Ariel and liked him at once. 377 (more later)

Following SafecrackingPLF's method, we have:

Cooper requested "negotiable American currency".
This was the most notable line to come out of the
Cooper transcripts where passengers on the plane,
including the flight attendants, stated that Cooper
had no distinguishable accent. Since no American
citizen would use those terms, it suggests that
Cooper was not originally from this country. If he
was from another country, then his lack of accent
points to French Canada as one of the few places in
the world where you could hail from and not have an
accent. The French Canadians without accents are
the Franco-Manitobans, the Franco-Albertans, and
possibly the Franco-Ontarians. They would be likely
to not have an accent when speaking English.
This also lines up with the fact that the Dan Cooper
comic was only published in French, making
Cooper's unusual request very interesting.

The above yields:

A: Coop said: Negotiable american currency > B:
no American would use those terms

B: No American would use those terms > C: not
originally from America

D: No accent + E: French comic > F: must be
from French Canada

G: Fr Canadians w/o accents > Franco-
Manitobans, Franco-Albertans, possibly Franco-
Ontarians

Therefore: Cooper was French Canadian !

Logic is merely a procedure guided by rules. In order
to be successful the statements connected logically,
must be True (or) False. Are Tom and Carol's
statements A-G above True statements and
inferences?

Where is T&C's PROOF their statements are true?
T&C are experts so their statements must be True,
a-priori ?

Is A true: Coop said: Negotiable american currency ?
Is B true: No American would use those terms ?
Is D true: Cooper had no accent ?
Is E true: Cooper read the French comic ?
Is G true: French Canadian w/o accents are ...?

It must be clear at this point that we (do not)
even know the truth of some of the statements
above, nor do Tom & Carol know their truth either.
They did label the section: 'Interesting but
Speculative Notes about Dan Cooper'

Therefore, any inferences drawn on these unproved
statements above, must also be suspect, if not
erroneous. Or, JUST PLAIN FUCKING SILLY!

I know this must seem harsh, but it is mild by
Marla's standards - yes?


The promotional symposium at tax payer's expense
is over. It's time to get on with life.

[Farflung 0]

Naturally having such a large gathering of people will produce a plethora of ideas and theories but this is a wee bit too fanciful for prima facie consideration.

So a person named Cooper selected a comic book featuring a character named Cooper therefore the alias of Cooper was selected by a person named Cooper who had an accomplice named Cooper? This certainly would qualify as criminal genius in that there is no such case study with similar attributes in the history of man. Yet the question about the source of McNally’s, McCoy’s and LaPoint’s alias is met with cricket chirps 100% of the time. Why the lack of confidence regarding these American born citizens?

Am I the only person who has been to Quebec (pronounced: North Vermont)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNalcAF6yyI

No accents? There may not have been one as I wasn’t listening to a word she said but found the video to be utterly delightful. There sure are some linguistic differences then. I was working with a Canadian who asked me if I would like to go to Horny Tim’s and get some Beaver Tail. I was instantly in complete agreement with that suggestion and can assure you that it didn’t turn out as I had anticipated. No accent associated with Canadians is news to me and about thirty million Canadians. Just a little skepticism would sure go a long way and may prevent another Cooper comic showing up at Shemya.

[hangdiver 1]

Yep..."raspberrymoon" and I attended the Cooper Symposium...what an adventure to get there.

We didn't know if either one of us were going until the last minute...we both had issues we needed to resolve before we could leave.

We drove up from Nor Cal on Wednesday and planned to enjoy Terwilliger hot springs on Thanksgiving day...well that didn't happen.

We got to Cougar Dam late Wednesday night and just crashed in the back of the VUE. When we woke up Thanksgiving day raspberrymoon took us to one of her favorite camping spots on the lake...I did ask her if she thought we would be able to drive out and she advised me she had been down this 300' downhill road many times ...even in the snow and always got out...

Well it rained all day Thursday...by the time we were ready to drive out to the hot spring for a soak the road out was impassable with the 2 wheel drive VUE...three tries by her and two by me...after that the road was a mess to say the least...so we drank and partied in the rain...wondering how long we would be there before we would be able to get out.

Thankfully the rain stopped early Friday morning. I got up at the crack of ridiculous, started a fire with dry oak wine barrel staves, made some coffee and pondered our dilemma. When the low clouds cleared we could see fresh snow on the peaks surrounding us...the ducks and ravens were having a great time after the storm...the views were spectacular!!!

After finding out the cables for the tires were three sizes too small I realized I would need to rebuild the road if we had any chance to get out...five hours later the road was fixed to my satisfaction...done with a finish hammer and a folding shovel...I was trashed...not to mention having a couple of conversations with Raz(code for arguing)about how and why we weren't going to make it to the Cooper Symposium.

When we finally got out we both needed a soak so we stopped in at Terwilliger hot springs for about an hour of oh so nice soaking in the wonderful pools after a concert on guitar from "Eppie" the caretaker.

We finally arrived in Portland around 10:00pm and got in our room around 12:00am...yes we were late and missed 377's presentation.

to be continued...

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

The promotional symposium at tax payer's expense
is over. It's time to get on with life.

georger...I'm still sitting in my room in Woodland, Wa.

I have an excursion planned today to check out some clues about the flight path that I will post later.

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[georger 244]

No accent associated with Canadians is news to me and about thirty million Canadians.

[Farflung 0]

Way to go hangdiver with checking out some Cooper stuff. Make sure the ‘OL’ is out there just meandering around and give her a stick to poke things with. That’s how Cooper is going to be found ya know, by someone poking things with a stick that doesn’t really care.

The money find by Brian poking sand with a stick, gold discovery at Sutter’s Mill poking the tailrace with a stick and of course the tensile strength of three sixteenth, chain restraining a grizzly bear; yep poking with a stick. Just give raspberrymoon a stick and tell her to start poking under that flight path, we will know how things turn out by watching the news tonight. Good luck.

[georger 244]

Quote

Living here in Washington state, and having traveled to Canada plenty of times...I've never run into a single Canadian who didn't use the phrase 'eh' at least once every couple of sentences.

whadda you telin me dis fer eh? I am a Canuck
and dat Masters degree in linguistik, eh?

Now my one grandmother had the British accent
and phraseology... ever notice my spellings?

[georger 244]

Quote

Living here in Washington state, and having traveled to Canada plenty of times...I've never run into a single Canadian who didn't use the phrase 'eh' at least once every couple of sentences. They use this word instead of certain American words in their speech. 'What?' for example.

I'm no linguist, but I would be willing to bet that had I been aboard Flight 305, and Cooper was Canadian, I would have spotted that in a quick fast NY hurry.

Eh?

When I was putting together the revised edition of Blast, I thought I heard something about KC being in French Club in high school. However, I couldn't find anything on it in my notes. So I've sent off a polite message to the principal of his old high school in an effort to find out. Probably nothing, but I had to check it out. If he doesn't answer the email, I will call him.

I have read 377's comments about Bruce Smith and the symposium. Yes, Bruce tries hard to work on the case, and I'm sure he read Farflung's poem well. But I don't agree with his methods sometimes.

He must learn NOT to publish nasty personal things about people that have nothing to do with the Cooper case in his articles...just because he doesn't get what he wants from an interviewee. This is a bad habit he should break. Other than that, I don't have a problem with him. But it's a pretty big 'other than that'.

One thing I am honing in on eh, is Tina from
Pen-sul-vanier eh? Now doz people may not hear as
the rest ov us do eh? Tin earz an all eh? But as a
linguistic matter accents are a matter of perception.
People have to hear it first to recognise it (no z eh).
My first thought was that Tina might be pretty keen
on hearing - she worked with a lot of people from
allovah eh. Maybe she had heard so many accents
she lost her ear, couldnt tell one from the other ...
plus she as scared, but Hancock, Flo, and the rest?

But, my thought was, there is sufficient phonological and syntactic 'distance' between Tina's region in Pennsylvania and almost any place in Can-ada eh,
I would think she would be sensitive to Canadian
speech patterns (& phonological differences) right off the mark? (But, since Cooper was Canadian from Halifax via Edmonton and Moose Jaw Ya Eh, then obviously Tina failed the hearing perception test ...
and Martians are US Midwesterners after all, eh? )

Well if you guys are popping up on this eh, then I
dont need to call Dr _________ at UCLA. Hez busy
anyway eh. Saved a loonie on dat one eh! Guess
that hypothesis is DOA. eh? Bloody right!

[Orange1 0]

Thanks all for the feedback

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 244]

Quote

Thanks all for the feedback

Eh?