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Dan, so sorry to hear about your wife. I look forward to your video (albeit impatiently). Is this a video you are going to post on youtube?
I can't help but to think - and I may be way off base here - that you may be pointing to McCoy. The simulated gun makes me think of him. But I've been wrong before, too many times to count.
Welcome to the forum, just joined myself, after months of reading.
I can't help but to think - and I may be way off base here - that you may be pointing to McCoy. The simulated gun makes me think of him. But I've been wrong before, too many times to count.
Welcome to the forum, just joined myself, after months of reading.
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider
Robert99 50
QuoteI guess this has more to do with being less sloppy with words and claims and ‘facts’ while searching for the truth. As all truthful people need to declare for some reason. Weird.
I’ve asked for examples of why this or why that for different faith systems and have consistently been met with BS. Yes it’s that easy to see. So I will go ahead and let the data miners do as they will since this is ops normal.
I’ve not seen anyone jump from STAIRS on any video anywhere, anytime. I’ve seen jumps from the rear compartment of a 727 but without any stairs. See the attachment for the difference between jumping from a 727 and jumping from the stairs.
This would answer one of the previous inconsistencies where I questioned how Cooper would have Special Ops experience but didn’t know how to operate the aft stairs. This may (may here don’t get a tattoo yet) explain how Cooper knew Tina would not need to be lashed inside the fuselage but did not know how to operate the stairs since there weren’t any when he jumped previously (as a Special Ops Spy of Death). Now this can become some ore in the data mining cart and added to the BS list of reasons why Cooper was Special Ops because it NOW matches the pre-plotted conclusion.
It was the co-pilot's idea to lash Tina to something in the cabin.
Robert99 50
QuoteIf youre going to jump a round at night, whats priority number one? (other than a gear check)
a jock strap.
Day or night, it is keeping your feet one over the other and knees together during landings in trees. Regardless of gender, no one wants to straddle a tree limb.
come on down I'll give you a ride.
I cannot find evidence that the 727 was used for dropping people in Viet Nam
Boeing had dropped hundreds of people and parcels from the stairs. When they were called that night, they had all the answers because it had all been done. If you want to see what it looks like, here is an unmodified -100 that they used for the movie and you can see that although not perfect, the stairs do come down enough to get out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVW_yr10Vss
Boeing had dropped hundreds of people and parcels from the stairs. When they were called that night, they had all the answers because it had all been done. If you want to see what it looks like, here is an unmodified -100 that they used for the movie and you can see that although not perfect, the stairs do come down enough to get out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVW_yr10Vss
Photos of the Symposium, Part One, and the shin dig at Ariel are now posted at the Mountain News as a segment of the earlier piece on the gatherings:
http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/11/29/db-cooper-symposium-delivers-solid-information-and-analysis/#comment-1677
Jerry Thomas, Hangdiver, Razz, Mooshy, Tom Kaye, Carol Abra, Brian in multiple poses including his wife and baby, the NB 8, the auctioned twenty and the fingers of the new owner(s)....the Formans, Rena, Kenny C's nephew and wife, Karen Truitt - whose father was on 305, Mr. Gray, plus much of the gang down at Ariel including Dona.
Tomorrow: MARLA!
http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/11/29/db-cooper-symposium-delivers-solid-information-and-analysis/#comment-1677
Jerry Thomas, Hangdiver, Razz, Mooshy, Tom Kaye, Carol Abra, Brian in multiple poses including his wife and baby, the NB 8, the auctioned twenty and the fingers of the new owner(s)....the Formans, Rena, Kenny C's nephew and wife, Karen Truitt - whose father was on 305, Mr. Gray, plus much of the gang down at Ariel including Dona.
Tomorrow: MARLA!
Now Brian is telling Bruce that the money was grabbed by the FBI and separated then put into envelopes without mention of the rubber bands or existing artifacts. Is this fact about the rubber bands in fact a statement from someone and nothing more?
If there were three bundles which I assume (assume) were banded at least individually, there would be some rubber band ‘bones’ stuck between the stacks the FBI separated. I mean there are fragments of titanium being found in neckties but no chunks of rubber bands? Is this more ‘You know what I mean’ type stuff being slammed around like paratroopers jumping off aft stairs in Viet Nam?
If there were three bundles which I assume (assume) were banded at least individually, there would be some rubber band ‘bones’ stuck between the stacks the FBI separated. I mean there are fragments of titanium being found in neckties but no chunks of rubber bands? Is this more ‘You know what I mean’ type stuff being slammed around like paratroopers jumping off aft stairs in Viet Nam?
Its a another miracle. Just a few years ago Brian
Ingram knew almost nothing about 'that day'. But
after extensive therapy following the Abracadabra
Diet, Brian Ingram now knows everything about 'that
day'.
Its a bloody miracle eh?
Previously the boy had to rely on his mother and
Jerry Thomas for everything. Now Brian is an
independent contractor, hallelulya!
See what therapy can do!?
Quote
At the Symposium, Brian told me that the rubber bands broke off the bundles as he picked them up. He said the bands were brittle.
However, he also said that his mother had told him that the interior of the rubber bands were "gooey." He didn't seem to be exactly sure how that could happen, and the circumstances didn't allow for me to continue. Later, I forgot to pursue the matter.
But that's what I got. Further, I think it is very plausible to expect an eight-year old kid to remember if he saw money shards washed up along the tide line. I think the Ingram family would find such pieces very readily once they'd found the six-grand and went searching for more.
The bank had to prepare the money per Coopers orders, but they also had to comply with FBI requests very quickly. Twentys come in bundles of 1000 individual notes ($20,000 per bundle) from the treasury and are broken down from there by the institution. My first look at $200,000 in $20 bills on the table was astonishing to me in terms of the size and the weight. See video to get a look yourself. The bills are clean, tighly packed and kind of vacuum packed like bricks. The bank people had to take them all out, lay them face down and mimeograph them one page at a time, and restack them back into some transportable means. 10,000 individual bills loose thrown in a garbage bag would have taken up a lot of space! After mimeographing, they formed an assembly line and counted piles of $20's 100 at a time, making each "packet" a $2000 packet. The only medium available to keep the packets together was those trusty bank rubber bands, and they needed 100 of them. I believe that each group of 5 packets were also banded together so in the end there were 20 packets each containing 5 packets. What Brian was found was three of the banded packets, which means that one of the five packs broke apart. This also provides a clear and obvious explanation for why it was there, where the missing twentys went.
If youre going to jump a round at night, whats priority number one?
Quote
~same things ya need when dating a red-head.
High laced boots, a flashlight, a sharp knife and a good single malt scotch.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
QuoteThe bank had to prepare the money per Coopers orders, but they also had to comply with FBI requests very quickly. Twentys come in bundles of 1000 individual notes ($20,000 per bundle) from the treasury and are broken down from there by the institution. My first look at $200,000 in $20 bills on the table was astonishing to me in terms of the size and the weight. See video to get a look yourself. The bills are clean, tighly packed and kind of vacuum packed like bricks. The bank people had to take them all out, lay them face down and mimeograph them one page at a time, and restack them back into some transportable means. 10,000 individual bills loose thrown in a garbage bag would have taken up a lot of space! After mimeographing, they formed an assembly line and counted piles of $20's 100 at a time, making each "packet" a $2000 packet. The only medium available to keep the packets together was those trusty bank rubber bands, and they needed 100 of them. I believe that each group of 5 packets were also banded together so in the end there were 20 packets each containing 5 packets. What Brian was found was three of the banded packets, which means that one of the five packs broke apart. This also provides a clear and obvious explanation for why it was there, where the missing twentys went.
Quote
That's not my understanding, D Dan. It has been widely reported that the Cooper money had been assembled some time before the skyjacking as part of a nation-wide plan of preparing ransom monies at many FBI field offices so that a hijacking or extortion plot would not impede the Bureau's options if the event took place when the banks were closed.
At the Symposium, I believe, it was stated that the $200,000 was gathered from a pre-existing $250,000 pile in Seattle. It has also been reported that each bundle had a few bills added or subtracted so that they would appear uneven - thus providing an image that they had been hastily assembled and not recorded.
I have never heard or read about your scenario of five mega-packets containing 20 mini packets as how the Cooper loot was delivered.
Also, I don't understand your "This also provides a clear and obvious explanation for why it was there, where the missing twenties went."
I don't undertand that sentence at all. Please explain further. Thanks.
smokin99 0
QuoteThe bank had to prepare the money per Coopers orders, but they also had to comply with FBI requests very quickly. Twentys come in bundles of 1000 individual notes ($20,000 per bundle) from the treasury and are broken down from there by the institution. My first look at $200,000 in $20 bills on the table was astonishing to me in terms of the size and the weight. See video to get a look yourself. The bills are clean, tighly packed and kind of vacuum packed like bricks. The bank people had to take them all out, lay them face down and mimeograph them one page at a time, and restack them back into some transportable means. 10,000 individual bills loose thrown in a garbage bag would have taken up a lot of space! After mimeographing, they formed an assembly line and counted piles of $20's 100 at a time, making each "packet" a $2000 packet. The only medium available to keep the packets together was those trusty bank rubber bands, and they needed 100 of them. I believe that each group of 5 packets were also banded together so in the end there were 20 packets each containing 5 packets. What Brian was found was three of the banded packets, which means that one of the five packs broke apart. This also provides a clear and obvious explanation for why it was there, where the missing twentys went.
QuoteThat's not my understanding, D Dan. It has been widely reported that the Cooper money had been assembled some time before the skyjacking as part of a nation-wide plan of preparing ransom monies at many FBI field offices so that a hijacking or extortion plot would not impede the Bureau's options if the event took place when the banks were closed.
At the Symposium, I believe, it was stated that the $200,000 was gathered from a pre-existing $250,000 pile in Seattle. It has also been reported that each bundle had a few bills added or subtracted so that they would appear uneven - thus providing an image that they had been hastily assembled and not recorded.
from ckret old post: The money was provided by Seafirst bank which is now Bank of America. The money had been earmarked for situations such as these and was always on hand. It had been photographed and serial numbers recorded by their security so the FBI did none of this.
The money was then transported by SeaFirst bank security to a Seattle police detective who then drove it to the airport and handed over to NWA. The money was bundled in various counts so that no bundle was the same. Each bundle was secured by rubber band and different counts so that it appeared the money was hastily gathered.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
Quotein the midst of Marla Mania Sheridan has slipped back into the shadows. I really hope that Geoff or Bruce or someone can get an interview with him while he is still alive. He avoids me and I wont just show up at someone's house, it's not my style.
Sailshaw has read Sheridan's novel and I'd be interested in seeing what he says about it. I saw all sorts of parallels to Norjack, but I see clouds in coffee too.
Sheridan is a nearly perfect DBC as far as qualifications go.
Marine
Smoke Jumper
Boeing employee in tech documents
Expert skydiver
Night jumps
Jumped in Viet Nam, (as a civilian)
Grudge (against the govt over Viet Nam atrocities)
He lived with Sailshaw for a brief period. Sailshaw was a Boeing engineeer working on the 737 stairs (Alaska Airlines ordered some, side not ventral). According to Sailshaw Sheridan pumped him for info on the 727 stairs, but Sailshaw didnt have any 727 info. After that, Peterson got a job at Boeing in technical documents.
The FBI was quite interested in Peterson, meeting with him twice, but ruled him out after a DNA sample was taken.
377
Quote
The Vortex swept up Sheridan in its etherial folds today. My sister just bought me a plane tix to NYC for Christmas but I fly back to Sea-Tac via San Francisco on the return leg, December 30th. Initially, I was not happy (at all) until I realized I could hop off the plane and go visit Petey.
Hence, that plan is now being concocted, with fairy dust and witches' potion being brewed to conjure my ground transportaiton and lodging. 377 is lending a hand, as well, stirring the pot big time.
But, does anyone know how I can convince American Airlines not to charge me full price on a one-way tix back to Sea-Tac after bailing in SF? Ug. ($327)
Then Geoff Gray calls me! He's heading to California sometime in December, too, and asked for Petey's particulars, which I shared. (I got them from Snow, anyway...) GG is going out on another story, but Cooper is too good to let go of, although he says, "I'm NOT going to write another book!"
So, Mr. Petes might get two visits from Cooper sleuths - or one big one knowing the Vortex, as it loves drama and whimsy.
The way this is working I might even meet Marla on the flight....
Plus, I called the administration desk of the senior apartments that Petey is supposedly residing in. They gave me boilerplate BS about needing to protect the confidentiality of the residents, but they finally assured me that Petey is "doing okay." Thus his residency has been confirmed along with his health. California, Ho!
Now, what was the name of that FBI agent downtown who swabbed Petey? She was a "long, cool drink of water,"....Ah, yes, Nicole Deveraux, I think it was...hmmmm. Duty callls.
BTW, 377, You didn't include Sheridan's alibii - living in a mud hut in Nepal!
QuoteQuoteThe bank had to prepare the money per Coopers orders, but they also had to comply with FBI requests very quickly. Twentys come in bundles of 1000 individual notes ($20,000 per bundle) from the treasury and are broken down from there by the institution. My first look at $200,000 in $20 bills on the table was astonishing to me in terms of the size and the weight. See video to get a look yourself. The bills are clean, tighly packed and kind of vacuum packed like bricks. The bank people had to take them all out, lay them face down and mimeograph them one page at a time, and restack them back into some transportable means. 10,000 individual bills loose thrown in a garbage bag would have taken up a lot of space! After mimeographing, they formed an assembly line and counted piles of $20's 100 at a time, making each "packet" a $2000 packet. The only medium available to keep the packets together was those trusty bank rubber bands, and they needed 100 of them. I believe that each group of 5 packets were also banded together so in the end there were 20 packets each containing 5 packets. What Brian was found was three of the banded packets, which means that one of the five packs broke apart. This also provides a clear and obvious explanation for why it was there, where the missing twentys went.
Quote
That's not my understanding, D Dan. It has been widely reported that the Cooper money had been assembled some time before the skyjacking as part of a nation-wide plan of preparing ransom monies at many FBI field offices so that a hijacking or extortion plot would not impede the Bureau's options if the event took place when the banks were closed.
At the Symposium, I believe, it was stated that the $200,000 was gathered from a pre-existing $250,000 pile in Seattle. It has also been reported that each bundle had a few bills added or subtracted so that they would appear uneven - thus providing an image that they had been hastily assembled and not recorded.
I have never heard or read about your scenario of five mega-packets containing 20 mini packets as how the Cooper loot was delivered.
Also, I don't understand your "This also provides a clear and obvious explanation for why it was there, where the missing twenties went."
I don't undertand that sentence at all. Please explain further. Thanks.
Good Job Bruce, you caught that one real fast! You won your first vocal CUDOS from me.
Great Job - you might be a TOP NOTCH reporter yet. You have left the tabloids behind you now.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteI believe in this tenet, at least when it works:
Quote'Sometimes things really ARE as simple as they appear.'
I don't buy the washed down the river theory regarding the money, and not just because of Tom Kaye's money packet 'fanning' results. It's simple logic and I've run it past people before, including FBI agent Fuhrman (spelling ok I hope) who said it made sense.
It is possible that a few of the bills could wash up in the same spot. Or a single bundle floated onto the beach somehow.
It is possible that MOST of the money could have fallen mysteriously from the sky and ended up in the same spot. But Tena Bar is supposedly pretty far off 305's alleged flight path.
It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that three bundles could float miles down a river, and stay together long enough (unless they had strings attached to each other) and end up in the same spot.
Here's another way to think about it, all you floated-down-the-river proponents: (and I don't mean this as an insult or anything, cross my heart)
Imagine you are up on the Washougal and you throw out 100 items that float...all duplicate items. What are the chances of three ending up in the same spot on a riverbank miles away? It doesn't make sense. Unless you buy into the dredging idea, there is no logical way to explain how three bundles could end up in the same spot miles away after floating down a river FOR MILES. We're talking about a Washington river, full of rocks, rapids, twists and turns, and sometimes fast currents.
Maybe Kaye is right when he says he thinks the money arrived by 'non-natural means,' i.e. human intervention. That leaves planting or dredging, not floating. The condition of the serial numbers (perfectly aligned to a degree that the inks on the numbers ran together) makes planting a more likely possibility.
Imagine you are the hijacker for a moment. Put yourself into his shoes.
How do you plant money that makes the FBI believe you're dead? Do you toss it on the ground in the woods?
NO. This would prompt a thorough search of the immediate area for parachutes, body, briefcase, etc. And if the FBI finds nothing, then all you are telling them is that you (the hijacker) probably survived the jump.
Do you toss a few bundles in the river and hope for the best?
Maybe, but if the money sinks, then all you've done is waste $6,000 of your hard-earned cash.
Do you plant it a few inches beneath the ground near a riverbank?
YES. This might tell the FBI that you landed in the river and drowned, or that you landed upriver and drowned, and the money washed down there somehow. (But there's that nagging 'how-do-three-end-up-in-the-same-spot' thing again) Remember, at the time the money was found, there was no dredging theory yet, nor any study by Tom Kaye. It wasn't until this year that Kaye released his results. The dredging theory has always been inconclusive. So up until now, there has been a lot of doubt. People said it could have washed down the river, others think Cooper no-pulled into the river, etc. But Kaye's results make these theories less likely. This leaves human intervention as a definite possibility.
And if this was Cooper's goal, he succeeded, because it was AFTER the money was found that the FBI began to say they thought Cooper surely died in the jump. Although they had been saying that to a degree BEFORE the money was found, they REALLY started in with that line AFTERWARD.
A riverbank plant solves a lot of problems all at the same time. No body, no chute? No problem. A River Ran Through It. That's why there's nothing else around. No other money found? No problem. A River Ran Through It. Cooper may have been smarter than we thought. I have wondered sometimes if he initially planted it close to the surface, maybe even leaving the edges of a couple of the bills visible, but didn't count on no one finding it for years. So the next time (post-plant) that the river rises, the money gets a bit more sand deposited on top. Then maybe a couple of more times later, until there's maybe six inches of sand on top of it. Maybe that was his only mistake. But in the end, it didn't matter. As far as the FBI was concerned...A River Ran Through It.
Ariel: I stayed until 9PM. But after 8PM I was outside. Couldn't take the loud music anymore, it had been going since 5PM and between that and answering questions, my voice was nearly gone. I had to go outside for a while. I spoke to Brian Ingram and Bruce Christiansen, a few others...then I made the long drive back to Auburn.
I would have been polite to Bruce, had I seen him. But I would have refused to answer any questions. Last time I did...(*laughs*) didn't work out too well for me. I got Dormuth-ed.I thought his article was okay. Maybe he's learning not to slam people in print for no good reason, as he did with the former FBI agent Dormuth. (Not nice, Bruce...)
I thought his article was okay. Maybe he's learning not to slam people in print for no good reason, as he did with the former FBI agent Dormuth. (Not nice, Bruce...)
Blevins - I have to say that was a good post - you guys are full of them tonight. See what happens when everyone pulls together to find the logics and the truths - even though there have been lots of theories and lots of bantering through the yrs. The truths that combine with the facts usually comes out in the end and those who come knocking on the door of the DZ better think twice about playing hokey pokey with Cooper facts or perhaps they need to study the thread to learn a little history before coming off with half-cock-eyed stories they think will toot them as an authority on Cooper.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Remember you get more with sugar coated words (this actually is a lesson I have never learned),
Do NOT go see him with a Cooper interview as the offering:
It will be Christmas time and New Yrs to follow. Take a "signed" copy of SkyJack or one of the most recent political genre books.
If he doesn't want it he will gift it to one of the other residents who might be interested. He has a daughter, but we all get a little loney during the holidays - try just being a friend.
In fact I would suggest you go there and visit with him and NOT discuss Cooper....but, ask him about himself. Ask him to tell you about himself and his life.
If he creates a Cooper opening you can ask a Cooper question (hint the book gift), but don't tell him you are there to discuss Cooper or any involvment he might have had. Foremost respect his wishes as I expect he had NO involvment. Why do you think he willing gave DNA! He wanted to put this accusation in the past as far as he was concerned...it is now a dead issue.
Go there with motive, but not story driven and remember to respect his age, health and prior occupation as an excellent writer who was MORE interested in the well being of those who others looked down on. Your interview with him should NOT be about Cooper, but Sheridan's story. He is a great story for anyone in my opinion and someone I would love to have met - he rode the Freedom Train. He is part of HISTORY. Treat him as a History story. Do NOT make this visit about Cooper or you will loose the interview and the efforts.
Cooper should NOT be your motive nor mentioned on your part. THIS visit should be about Sheridan and NOT about Cooper.
Sheridan is a History Icon - Let Farflung do a poster using the likness of Sheridan on the Freedom Train /Bus - (to tired tonight to remember). A bigger than life caricature of Sheridan (head larger than body) ON top of it.
Farflung:
I can see the poster in my mind now - wish I could draw what I see inside of my head...Sheridan would LOVE it. This poster would definitely get Bruce in the door and what happens after that is up to Bruce.
Do NOT go see him with a Cooper interview as the offering:
It will be Christmas time and New Yrs to follow. Take a "signed" copy of SkyJack or one of the most recent political genre books.
If he doesn't want it he will gift it to one of the other residents who might be interested. He has a daughter, but we all get a little loney during the holidays - try just being a friend.
In fact I would suggest you go there and visit with him and NOT discuss Cooper....but, ask him about himself. Ask him to tell you about himself and his life.
If he creates a Cooper opening you can ask a Cooper question (hint the book gift), but don't tell him you are there to discuss Cooper or any involvment he might have had. Foremost respect his wishes as I expect he had NO involvment. Why do you think he willing gave DNA! He wanted to put this accusation in the past as far as he was concerned...it is now a dead issue.
Go there with motive, but not story driven and remember to respect his age, health and prior occupation as an excellent writer who was MORE interested in the well being of those who others looked down on. Your interview with him should NOT be about Cooper, but Sheridan's story. He is a great story for anyone in my opinion and someone I would love to have met - he rode the Freedom Train. He is part of HISTORY. Treat him as a History story. Do NOT make this visit about Cooper or you will loose the interview and the efforts.
Cooper should NOT be your motive nor mentioned on your part. THIS visit should be about Sheridan and NOT about Cooper.
Sheridan is a History Icon - Let Farflung do a poster using the likness of Sheridan on the Freedom Train /Bus - (to tired tonight to remember). A bigger than life caricature of Sheridan (head larger than body) ON top of it.
Farflung:
I can see the poster in my mind now - wish I could draw what I see inside of my head...Sheridan would LOVE it. This poster would definitely get Bruce in the door and what happens after that is up to Bruce.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Why say mean things Geoger?
Try being nicer.
People who were online adversaries got along great at the symposium.
It's really a better way to live your life.
377 aka Polyanna
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