DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

So here it is…..

http://youtu.be/Caij8QNB6hM

[JerryThomas 0]

Clown :Your name says it all. Jerry

[ClassClown 0]

..............JT, by the way I do agree with you that Cooper died that night.....................so we are on the same page as far as that goes...............I just think you like to have your name out there...........it's a rush for ya................don't take it personal big fella..............

[ClassClown 0]

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So here it is…..

http://youtu.be/Caij8QNB6hM

I kinda like this one.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIU_0DG_xAU&feature=related

[ClassClown 0]

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Clown :Your name says it all. Jerry

and your posts come back to haunt you...............

[georger 244]

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Clown :Your name says it all. Jerry

Jerry. Answer one question:

How much did the Ingram bundles weigh?

$5800 in bills wet + sand and muck + semi
cemented. (Brought onto the beach with the tide
prior to discovery; found on the tide line.)

This basic question has never been asked (to my
knowledge) in the entire history of this thread.
Nope. Never. Never answered since not asked.
Not addressed by Kaye, Gray, 377, or Carol either.

Here is your opportunity to shine like a meteor.

Answer the basic question.

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo More of your Bs Take a polygraph test At least Marla Cooper can make a honest claim. She was only 8 yrs old. You how ever , an adult have no excuse. Still i have the Tapes to back up what you have said. lets not forget the picture's you drew and the map claiming Duane stole a boat an rowed accross lacamas lake then walked to the Columbia River and Burried the money Just off Hwy 14 That you sent me in 2000. Better yet the many post that you have made changing your story countless times. Or the lies you have been caught in. Check your posts and mine on 1110 in reference to Max Gunther. Better yet How many people in the News and TV media have you buged the hell out of. A lot of people learned about that at the symposim directly from them . Jo Stop chalenging me I am not your enemy you are your worst enemy. By the way Donna and I had a great time last Saturday night. Jerry

[georger 244]

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Jo More of your Bs Take a polygraph test At least Marla Cooper can make a honest claim. She was only 8 yrs old. You how ever , an adult have no excuse. Still i have the Tapes to back up what you have said. lets not forget the picture's you drew and the map claiming Duane stole a boat an rowed accross lacamas lake then walked to the Columbia River and Burried the money Just off Hwy 14 That you sent me in 2000. Better yet the many post that you have made changing your story countless times. Or the lies you have been caught in. Check your posts and mine on 1110 in reference to Max Gunther. Better yet How many people in the News and TV media have you buged the hell out of. A lot of people learned about that at the symposim directly from them . Jo Stop chalenging me I am not your enemy you are your worst enemy. By the way Donna and I had a great time last Saturday night. Jerry

Get back on subject - answer the question.

[JerryThomas 0]

Clown How long have you and Jo been friends.Jerry

[ClassClown 0]

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Jo More of your Bs Take a polygraph test At least Marla Cooper can make a honest claim. She was only 8 yrs old. You how ever , an adult have no excuse. Still i have the Tapes to back up what you have said. lets not forget the picture's you drew and the map claiming Duane stole a boat an rowed accross lacamas lake then walked to the Columbia River and Burried the money Just off Hwy 14 That you sent me in 2000. Better yet the many post that you have made changing your story countless times. Or the lies you have been caught in. Check your posts and mine on 1110 in reference to Max Gunther. Better yet How many people in the News and TV media have you buged the hell out of. A lot of people learned about that at the symposim directly from them . Jo Stop chalenging me I am not your enemy you are your worst enemy. By the way Donna and I had a great time last Saturday night. Jerry

Get back on subject - answer the question.

I'd like to hear the answer as well

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger: I don't no how much they weighed. I will ask Ralph if he knows and get back too you. My question to you is why haven't you asked him yourself. He's easy to contact. You were told that he would talk to you over a year ago. Jerry

[ClassClown 0]

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Clown How long have you and Jo been friends.Jerry

I am not friends with Jo. I don't even believe her claims about her husband being Cooper..........................I just think you're hitting below the belt with your attacks on her.............oh and the polygraph thing again?..Really?...................Why don't you put those tapes online and link them to us so we can all hear this so-called evidence that proves Jo Weber is a liar.............it's not that hard........I mean you do have friends that could do it for ya dont you?................

[JerryThomas 0]

Clown: That would totally destroy Jo and there is no way she could recover from that . I don't want to hurt Jo and never have all I want is for her to stop the stories she tells. Jo has done a lot of research in this case. She has spent countless hours compilling info a lot of people have not seen. JO has presented Ideas in the past that has never be thought of. For the record Jo has researched this case as will as any one.She has compilled Info that is usefull to many researchers.She can be a asset in this case with her files and some of things she has uncovered. I must admit Jo and our battles is personal in many ways. However her research is valuable in some cases.Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo you never mention a mountain all you stated was that you were on the Oregon side and didn't cross the river untill you got to the I5 bridge. then you drove up I 5 towards Seattle as you an Duane crossed the Cowltz river you said Duane pointed and said that is where Cooper hid the Money. That part you probanly to from Max Gunthers Book. Jerry

JT YOU know that is NOT true.
The MT I spoke of with the 3 fishing cabins (one of which the foundations was left). Almost missing his turn on I- 14 because of the changes.

You are the ONE who insisted I was on the OR side and you KNOW that is not true...YOU are the one who insisted Duane turned me around and WE were back on the Columbia. I said NOT and you know it. Just how or why did you not get my Mountain.

I was specific about this MT not too far from where the 3 cabins had been on the water...turns out that was Lake LaCames.

I described that MT in detail and what was on top of it. The wire fence and the gate and the dead tall trees and the large boulders - like an old homestead,...weird feeling like a cemetary with the boulders as grave markers. Everyone else in WA knew where this was and you didn't?

and JT thinks I'll be banned when he is constantly calling you a liar and posting that you are damaging the Weber name?.........GEEZ!

Had I known where the Lake was and that MT then maybe the FBI might have listened...and/or at least have done enough investigation into Duane's background to learn when and how he knew so much about the area.

JT made sure that trip was a bust until the crew left. Thank God for some very nice people in WA who provided me with the transportation and guidance to locate these things. Most of ALL a grateful Thank You to UDELL wherever you are and whoever you are.

In 2001 I called JT and told him what I found and there WAS no more contact between myself and JT until someone told him I was in this thread. Then I had to repeat and repeat the same story. They shoot Dead Horses don't they....that phrase gets me in trouble because people do not really listen to what you are saying. JT is constantly trying to use a WHIP on that Dead Horse.

I have not ever stated WHY I think JT beats a Dead Horse. I tired to be kind and not accuse him of anything, but...I am tired of having to defend myself on the matter. I think JT went there - he even claimed in this thread his wife's family owned property there....Because JT didn't GET it - it is embarrassing for him.

I have used the terminology Media Whore myself - as Jerry always interjects HIMSELF into every suspect that comes around. He never talks about the taxi driver in this thread - it would show how foolish he really is. If someone has a suspect - Jerry will back another suspect. He started doing this to me in 2001 when I went to WA. JT was no longer in control and had been tooted as the man to go to (recommended by Retired Agent Himmelsbach). Even today - he will back the underdog - JT does NOT want the Cooper Saga to end. IT is HIS life and without Cooper he has no life...he becomes a NOBODY again.

I have finally had to vocalize this about JT. When Cooper is finally acknowledge, JT may need to go into recovery! Cooperism is not just an unsolved mystery - it is more like an addictive drug to JT. Wthout Cooper JT is nothing...he doesn't want the case solved.

For me it is proving what my husband told me and/or how and why he knew the N.W. like the back of his hand. When the FBI comes forth with a verifiable Cooper - it is over for me. I think Duane was Cooper because he said he was and he knew the area and I held certain item in my own hands and saw others. The time line is there on the actions of Weber --- and is a better story than Roberts, but I am NOT a writer.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo: I could pick your Post apart but its not worth the time or the effort. Besides The man that commited this crime has not been seen or heard from since 24 Nov 1971(.And Neither has Melvin Wilson who is a model candidate) No crook will turn loose of the money he stole unless he is dead or its stolen from him . In this case 200,000 dollars or any portion of it, is to much for anyone crook to part from.Nor will any crook use there real last name. Any criminal Attorney will tell you a thief will die before he releases his stolen Goods . Don't you agree 377. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo More of your Bs Take a polygraph test At least Marla Cooper can make a honest claim. She was only 8 yrs old. You how ever , an adult have no excuse. Still i have the Tapes to back up what you have said. lets not forget the picture's you drew and the map claiming Duane stole a boat an rowed accross lacamas lake (Jo States -the only boat ever mentioned was on the return trip when Duane told me about some guys taking a boat from a Marina in Washoughal and then setting it loose full throttle in Vancouver - WHY else would I have had you searching for records of a stolen boat. You even said you checked the Washougal Newspapers about this - NOW JERRY you have sank your own boat) then walked to the Columbia River and Burried the money Just off Hwy 14 (I never knew where the money was buried - He showed me a place someone hid an item and this was off of I-4 not Hwy 14) That you sent me in 2000. Better yet the many post that you have made changing your story countless times. Or the lies you have been caught in. Check your posts and mine on 1110 in reference to Max Gunther. Better yet How many people in the News and TV media have you buged the hell out of. yes, I have contacted the media - hoping someone will really hear what I have been saying - that someone might find a piece of the puzzle. A lot of people learned about that at the symposim directly from them . Jo Stop chalenging me I am not your enemy you are your worst enemy. By the way Donna and I had a great time last Saturday night. Jerry

PS. I was not represented at the forum - so I did contact some individuals so what I have to say will NOT die or be ignored in all of the media frenzy....such as why Cooper used the name Dan Cooper and is a story I have told in this thread.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Hominid 0]

The crew of flight 305 helped Cooper. After the incident, Rataczak said something to the effect that everything seemed to go OK as long as they did as Cooper wanted. The NWA incident report indicated "Crew taking pains likewise to gain HJ's confidence by giving him full information and cooperation."

It is reasonable that the crew may have slowed the plane down a bit to help Cooper get out. They would not have been able to fly extra slowly for much of the flight because they weren't sure they would have the fuel to get all the way to Reno. But they could have slowed down for a short time at some point they thought would be good for Cooper.

An ideal area would have been just after they passed the mountains between Seattle and Vancouver. They knew the rear stairs had been at least ajar for a while. Also, there is a chance they had communication with Cooper before 8:05 by which they knew he wanted them to slow down, and when.

The report about the later re-enactment test flight said that the plane was flown at approximately 150 knots, indicated, for the tests. It is logical (scientific experiment wise) that the test would have, to the extent feasible, replicated any conditions that existed at the time "they" thought Cooper probably jumped. Any difference would have to be analyzed to determine its effect. Minimizing differences would therefore minimize analysis, potential for error, and size of errors.

So, it is probable that the test flight was at or near 10,000 feet altitude as flight 305 was when Cooper was thought to have jumped. And it is probable that flight 305 was doing about 150 knots, indicated, at around the time Cooper was then believed to have jumped.

Tosaw has seemed to get a lot of stuff right. One thing he claimed about the test flight is that it was at the same speed and altitude as flight 305 at the time Cooper was believed to have jumped. This then also suggests that the test flight was at about 10,000 feet and that the reported "approximately 150 knots" indicated airspeed was like flight 305 was doing when Cooper jumped.

In fact, the temperature at 10K' during the test flight would have been close to the same as it was when Cooper jumped, because the SEATAC temperature (near the bombing range) was just under 45°F like the ground temperature was when Cooper jumped. Another important condition close to being replicated.

151.4 knots is pretty much "approximately 150 knots," and it works out to be 173 knots true airspeed at 10K' using the SEATAC temperature (7°C) through the middle of the day on which the test flight was made (and standard temperature lapse rate).

In posts 436 and 1529 in the old thread, agent Carr said the plane was doing 173 knots when Cooper jumped. He may have meant that this was the speed corresponding to point A in the '72 search-zone map. Or, he may have had info that the speed was close to 173 knots for a few minutes while the plane was over the Vancouver plain. He also referred to 200mph. 173 knots would be 199mph.

It would be a mistake to just dismiss statements by Carr. He said some things based on his understanding of things he heard or read. But some things were right out of his case file (like the report on the test flight and his winds data). That case file has data none of us has, including calculations based on such data and better knowledge than any of us has about conditions and events on the night of the hijacking.

The airspeed calculated within a few days after the hijacking of course would not have been exactly 173 knots. The calculated figure would have been 172 or 173 "point" something and the value was rounded to 173. The rounding error could be up to +/-.5kt, and this doesn't include errors from the source data that was used in the calculation. So the true value could likely be off by one knot.

170KIAS? NWA did not tell the crew to fly 170KIAS. They only informed the crew that 170KIAS was the optimum speed. Below is the part of the logged communications where this information was relayed. It was also addressed in the same way in the after-the-fact NWA incident report (second image below), which stated that 170 was optimum for range.

There is no reason to assume that flight 305 rigidly stuck to 170KIAS during the time period in which Cooper is believed to have jumped.

Indeed, flight 305 reported 160KIAS at about 7:47 (a couple of minutes after being given the 170KIAS info), "airspeed in the vicinity of one seventy one eighty" (KIAS, since they had no ability to measure TAS) at 7:53:40 just after leveling off at 10,000', then back to 160KIAS at 8:01. This was the last speed report before the 8:10-8:15 time period in which Cooper is thought to have jumped. The last report before jump time was already less than the optimum 170KIAS.

According to the NWA incident report, the speed was 165KIAS 23nm south of the PDX VOR--still below the optimum 170KIAS. So it is likely they were doing about 160 for several minutes before and after Portland. It would have been easy for them to slow down to 150KIAS from 160 at some point during that time.

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo Once again I have the proof of my post,So stop the chalenges. Your letter states Duane Stole a boat and rowed accross the lake . Im reading it right now.How I new this was another one of your lies is I checked with the authorities for that date and no Boats were stolen. You even stated it was taken from the dock at leadbetter Masion. I believe I even sent a copy of it to Ralph.This has been posted in the past here on DropZone Jo you were represented at the synposim by Geof Gray.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Homnid: The Main problem Cooper would have had was deploying his parachute.377 and i have discussed this. 377 is correct that if he deployed his chute imediatly he would not have gone into a spin. He was not using a chute he was familliar with chances are he went into a spin and did not recover. Jerry

[Hominid 0]

Yeah. Deploying your chute is the main problem of anyone who jumps from a plane at above ground level.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

So here it is…..

http://youtu.be/Caij8QNB6hM

I kinda like this one.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIU_0DG_xAU&feature=related

I like it!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Robert99 50]

Quote

The crew of flight 305 helped Cooper. After the incident, Rataczak said something to the effect that everything seemed to go OK as long as they did as Cooper wanted. The NWA incident report indicated "Crew taking pains likewise to gain HJ's confidence by giving him full information and cooperation."

It is reasonable that the crew may have slowed the plane down a bit to help Cooper get out. They would not have been able to fly extra slowly for much of the flight because they weren't sure they would have the fuel to get all the way to Reno. But they could have slowed down for a short time at some point they thought would be good for Cooper.

An ideal area would have been just after they passed the mountains between Seattle and Vancouver. They knew the rear stairs had been at least ajar for a while. Also, there is a chance they had communication with Cooper before 8:05 by which they knew he wanted them to slow down, and when.

The report about the later re-enactment test flight said that the plane was flown at approximately 150 knots, indicated, for the tests. It is logical (scientific experiment wise) that the test would have, to the extent feasible, replicated any conditions that existed at the time "they" thought Cooper probably jumped. Any difference would have to be analyzed to determine its effect. Minimizing differences would therefore minimize analysis, potential for error, and size of errors.

So, it is probable that the test flight was at or near 10,000 feet altitude as flight 305 was when Cooper was thought to have jumped. And it is probable that flight 305 was doing about 150 knots, indicated, at around the time Cooper was then believed to have jumped.

Tosaw has seemed to get a lot of stuff right. One thing he claimed about the test flight is that it was at the same speed and altitude as flight 305 at the time Cooper was believed to have jumped. This then also suggests that the test flight was at about 10,000 feet and that the reported "approximately 150 knots" indicated airspeed was like flight 305 was doing when Cooper jumped.

In fact, the temperature at 10K' during the test flight would have been close to the same as it was when Cooper jumped, because the SEATAC temperature (near the bombing range) was just under 45°F like the ground temperature was when Cooper jumped. Another important condition close to being replicated.

151.4 knots is pretty much "approximately 150 knots," and it works out to be 173 knots true airspeed at 10K' using the SEATAC temperature (7°C) through the middle of the day on which the test flight was made (and standard temperature lapse rate).

In posts 436 and 1529 in the old thread, agent Carr said the plane was doing 173 knots when Cooper jumped. He may have meant that this was the speed corresponding to point A in the '72 search-zone map. Or, he may have had info that the speed was close to 173 knots for a few minutes while the plane was over the Vancouver plain. He also referred to 200mph. 173 knots would be 199mph.

It would be a mistake to just dismiss statements by Carr. He said some things based on his understanding of things he heard or read. But some things were right out of his case file (like the report on the test flight and his winds data). That case file has data none of us has, including calculations based on such data and better knowledge than any of us has about conditions and events on the night of the hijacking.

The airspeed calculated within a few days after the hijacking of course would not have been exactly 173 knots. The calculated figure would have been 172 or 173 "point" something and the value was rounded to 173. The rounding error could be up to +/-.5kt, and this doesn't include errors from the source data that was used in the calculation. So the true value could likely be off by one knot.

170KIAS? NWA did not tell the crew to fly 170KIAS. They only informed the crew that 170KIAS was the optimum speed. Below is the part of the logged communications where this information was relayed. It was also addressed in the same way in the after-the-fact NWA incident report (second image below), which stated that 170 was optimum for range.

There is no reason to assume that flight 305 rigidly stuck to 170KIAS during the time period in which Cooper is believed to have jumped.

Indeed, flight 305 reported 160KIAS at about 7:47 (a couple of minutes after being given the 170KIAS info), "airspeed in the vicinity of one seventy one eighty" (KIAS, since they had no ability to measure TAS) at 7:53:40 just after leveling off at 10,000', then back to 160KIAS at 8:01. This was the last speed report before the 8:10-8:15 time period in which Cooper is thought to have jumped. The last report before jump time was already less than the optimum 170KIAS.

According to the NWA incident report, the speed was 165KIAS 23nm south of the PDX VOR--still below the optimum 170KIAS. So it is likely they were doing about 160 for several minutes before and after Portland. It would have been easy for them to slow down to 150KIAS from 160 at some point during that time.

Hominid, Read the entry from the FBI notes that is just below the one you quoted in your first attachment. Also read the ATC radio log for the same time frame.

The crew did slow the aircraft down about 10 minutes after take-off and leveled off at 7000 feet for a couple of minutes in order to help Cooper get the stairs down.

In the quotation just below the one you quoted in your first attachment, the MSP Flight Operations group noted that they were only at 160 knots (this is Indicated Air Speed) at that point and would not be able to make it to Reno at that speed.

At 7:53 PM PST the airliner crew reported to ATC that they were leveling off at 10,000 feet and that their "airspeed (again Indicated Air Speed) in the vicinity of one seventy one eighty".

The Indicated Air Speed is the number read on the airspeed indicator. It is called True Indicated Air Speed after being corrected for instrument and pressure system errors. No such corrections are available for the aircraft but based on NASA studies of airliners, they would be quite small at this altitude and speed. So for all practical purposes, the True Indicated Airspeed is the same as the Indicated Airspeed in this instance.

After leveling off at 10,000 feet, all information in the ATC radio logs indicated that 170 KIAS was their target speed or "bug" speed.

The True Airspeed (the actual speed of the aircraft with respect to the airmass it is flying in) can be determined from the True Indicated Airspeed, the altitude of the aircraft, the temperature outside the aircraft, and the local sea level pressure (which is what the altimeter is set to).

The altimeter setting was constantly being passed to the airliner by ATC. The flight crew could determine the outside air temperature from the reading on their Mach meter. And they could determine the True Indicated Airspeed by simply reading the Air Speed Indicator.

Doing the above gives the following numbers:

True Indicated Airspeed - 170 Knots (which was their goal after reaching 10,000 feet).
True Airspeed - 194 Knots.

The wind at 10,000 feet was about 26 Knots from the southwest (225 degrees true).

This is everything needed to calculate the ground speed (which is the speed made good over the ground). And the achieved ground speed changes each time the airliner changes headings.

And any 17 year old Private Pilot with an ASEL rating is supposed to be capable of doing these calculations.

R99

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: How much of this realy matters if Cooper didn't deploy his parachute. The man has not been seen or heard from since Nov 1971. The only thing that has been found is $5800. No one that would Hyjack an aircraft in that era would turn loose of his Booty.The money wasn't planted on Tinas bar . It washed up there. I keep saying lets go back to the Basic's. The basic problem is the man had to deploy a chute he was not familar with. His choice of clothing was not that of an experienced jumper. The way he secured the money bag to his body was not that of an experienced jumper. His choice of chutes was stupid. If he had of deployed his chute he would have gotten tangeld up in it. He had no sense of direction nor would he have been able to sustain a spin. He would have had only Micro seconds to respond to any trouble.Nothing about this case matches anything but simple facts that the hyjacker is not present to talk about it and a small amount of money was found that the army corps of engineers states came from the Washougal watershed.Jerry

[377 22]

Jerry wrote

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Any criminal Attorney will tell you a thief will die before he releases his stolen Goods . Don't you agree 377.

I think the chances of a thief tossing serious money out is nearly zero. There has to be another explanation as to how the money got to Tena Bar. It's just an opinion, but I've represented a lot of criminals and not one of them would have let go of $5800 in hard cash to send a message. They'd find another way.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

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Geoger: I don't no how much they weighed. I will ask Ralph if he knows and get back too you. My question to you is why haven't you asked him yourself. He's easy to contact. You were told that he would talk to you over a year ago. Jerry

well you should be able to estimate it.
btw F = ma. (force equals mass x acceleration)

You claim/Fazio's claim the tide deposited the
money, as found. In order for that to happen forces
have to be applied to leverage (float/push/pull/suck/
etc) the money into position, as found. Correct? So
having some idea of the weight of the money is
required in order to back engineer and estimate
what forces/vectors could produce the intended
result (bundles as found)

The question is straightforward.

Can the tides and current alone account for the
deposit, as found at Tina Bar? You say yes but cant
show us how. Tom says no, and cant show us how!
Maybe Blevins or 377 can help out here.