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Jo Once again I have the proof of my post,So stop the chalenges. Your letter states Duane Stole a boat and rowed accross the lake . Jo Cautions Jerry to Think - the letter mentions the Ledbetter Mansion - therefore we crossed the Columbia before Washougal and NOT in Portland. I expect this is the letter I wrote in a rage because I had found your lies out and the same letter using the name of Brad Pitt from a newpaper on the desk - I was raging because of the yrs lost and your deceptions. (The Angel Udell had clued me to you deceptions ) i Im reading it right now.How I new this was another one of your lies is I checked with the authorities for that date and no Boats were stolen. You even stated it was taken from the dock at leadbetter Masion. I believe I even sent a copy of it to Ralph.This has been posted in the past here on DropZone Jo you were represented at the synposim by Geof Gray.Jerry



Remember is was me who asked you to check the microfish and files about a boat - STOLEN from the Marina on the Columbia in Washougal. WHY would I do that if I had been insisting we were on the OR side of the river.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Hominid, Read the entry from the FBI notes that is just below the one you quoted in your first attachment. Also read the ATC radio log for the same time frame.



The first attachment snip is from the logged communications. The entry just below it is an exchange about alternate destinations and weather. What time frame? How many times must I read it?

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The crew did slow the aircraft down about 10 minutes after take-off and leveled off at 7000 feet for a couple of minutes in order to help Cooper get the stairs down.



As we all know.

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In the quotation just below the one you quoted in your first attachment, the MSP Flight Operations group noted that they were only at 160 knots (this is Indicated Air Speed) at that point and would not be able to make it to Reno at that speed.



The exchange logged at 7:48 began with report from 305 that they were holding 160 indicated "which is approx 5 kts abv the bug." and holding 7 thousand feet and "indctd 160". And MSPFO replied the flight would "not be able to get to Reno in that config." They did not say 305 couldn't make it to Reno if they flew that speed for even a second. They didn't say the crew must never fly slower than 170.

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At 7:53 PM PST the airliner crew reported to ATC that they were leveling off at 10,000 feet and that their "airspeed (again Indicated Air Speed) in the vicinity of one seventy one eighty".



As I wrote. Did you read it?

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The Indicated Air Speed is the number read on the airspeed indicator. It is called True Indicated Air Speed after being corrected for instrument and pressure system errors. No such corrections are available for the aircraft but based on NASA studies of airliners, they would be quite small at this altitude and speed. So for all practical purposes, the True Indicated Airspeed is the same as the Indicated Airspeed in this instance.

After leveling off at 10,000 feet, all information in the ATC radio logs indicated that 170 KIAS was their target speed or "bug" speed.



I haven't found anything saying that 170 was their target speed other than when they were told it would be the optimum.

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The True Airspeed (the actual speed of the aircraft with respect to the airmass it is flying in) can be determined from the True Indicated Airspeed, the altitude of the aircraft, the temperature outside the aircraft, and the local sea level pressure (which is what the altimeter is set to).



Really? You don't say (again)?

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The altimeter setting was constantly being passed to the airliner by ATC. The flight crew could determine the outside air temperature from the reading on their Mach meter. And they could determine the True Indicated Airspeed by simply reading the Air Speed Indicator.

Doing the above gives the following numbers:

True Indicated Airspeed - 170 Knots (which was their goal after reaching 10,000 feet).
True Airspeed - 194 Knots.



When they were doing 170 at 10K' the TAS was 194kt. What was the TAS when the IAS was 151.1kt?
You can calculate something besides 170, right?
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The wind at 10,000 feet was about 26 Knots from the southwest (225 degrees true).

This is everything needed to calculate the ground speed (which is the speed made good over the ground). And the achieved ground speed changes each time the airliner changes headings.

And any 17 year old Private Pilot with an ASEL rating is supposed to be capable of doing these calculations.



I know. Do you just cut and paste this in every time the topic comes up? A person not really reading all this might just assume that you must be disagreeing with what I wrote.

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Jerry wrote

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Any criminal Attorney will tell you a thief will die before he releases his stolen Goods . Don't you agree 377.



I think the chances of a thief tossing serious money out is nearly zero. There has to be another explanation as to how the money got to Tena Bar. It's just an opinion, but I've represented a lot of criminals and not one of them would have let go of $5800 in hard cash to send a message. They'd find another way.

377



Tossing out serious money - you have to be kidding - People were still looking of Cooper's money in 1980. So Cooper does a stupid thing - he went back to retrive some of the money he hid and some of it is damaged - why not leave a calling card or perhaps a message to indicate Cooper died.......

A stupid thing a dumb crook would do...a man who couldn't seem to stay out of prison. In 1979 Duane made $42,988 from one company and about $3000 from a subcontractor. I also had income that yr.

Note: Duane walked away from that job as soon as the papers hit the streets in Ft. Collins. I do not believe he knew the money could actually be traced until he read it in the newpaper. The next day he write his resignation and in 4 wks he is in Alabama - leaving me with a daughter graduating from high school, prom and birthday party.

After the money find in 1980 and before he left he asked me to go on a business trip with him.
We left early in the morning because he wanted to reach his destination before the bank closed. He took his briefcase in and told me to stay in the car and that he had business with man in the bank (Duane WAS not licensed to sell in that state).

He is back within 30 minutes and we are on our way back to CO by a different route. Have a feeling what he did in that bank was open a safety deposit box and paid it forward to 1990...he still possessed John C. Collins drivers license and Identification at that time OR he would not have been able to obtain new Identification for John C. Collins in 1990. Duane was hiding the evidence.

The John C. Collins ID had expired by 1990 and he was going on diaylsis - he risked all by trying to updated his John Collins drivers license and the Highway Patrol came looking for him. What I have found out now is that the day before they arrested him - he had managed to obtain a drivers license under John C. Collins in the next county over...the license I found in the hidden wallet the man who bought the van returned to me.

When the police came to the shop for John Collins - Duane had a 38 with split bullets. He was put under 72 hours observation. The Dr. interviened and because of the mental things Georger has explained about the kidney disease - the Dr. managed to keep Duane from being jailed or prosecuted by the state. No one bothered to check - but I now have the receipts for the John C. Collins license - dated the day before he was caught. The arresting facility did NOT check to see if he had actually gotten the license elsewhere and he had actually done it.

What was so important he had to obtain a John C. Collins drivers license - a safety deposit box he went to shortly after that in a place he was known as John C. Collins. When he returns he open another safety deposit box in FL - the one I had no knowledge of when he died.

I take the will into the office. Because I am NOT on the box name I cannot enter the room when they unlock it. They return with a magazine - and I questioned if this was all that was in the box. This is where he had put the issue of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - about "The Man Who Knew To Much". I did NOT understand this.

I placed that magazine in the tax file and I still have it. For yrs I did NOT pay much attention to the magazine until I posted about it on this thread.

1980 - the 2 of us together didn't make $28,000. We struggled and this is when I found out about something he had done and I was leaving him. This is when he begged me with tears in his eyes NOT to leave and he would never do anything like that again. If he did - I had NO knowledge of it other than the Kool aid thing toward the very end of his life.

You see Blevins I do have the details - just never thought I needed to do this - this is the FBI's job. All of this WAS at their disposal in 1996 - but the agent didn't know what to be looking for nor did I know what to look for.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Geoger: Possibly water dams and there locations.Jerry



So: wing dams across the river deflected approx
2-1/2 bundles of wet bills all the way across the
river (under water or on the surface?), and the tide
pushed the package up tens of feet inland on the
beach to the tide line?

Do I have this right?

Was this in the Corps of Engineers' report?

Attached is a map of the wing dams closest to Tena
Bar, with pink boxes around them.

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Hominid, To save a couple of pages of storage, I will start with a fresh piece of paper.

As discussed elsewhere previously, the airliner had trouble climbing to 10,000 feet in the configuration that Cooper specified. And after reaching 10,000 feet, the airliner had difficulty in turning as well as, surprise, in descending. And of course, the airspeed during the initial climb was less than 170 KIAS.

The optimum speed for best range was given as 170 KIAS by the MSP performance group. This speed was obviously important if the aircraft couldn't get to Reno at 160 KIAS. In fact, the crew was in the Portland area before being informed that they could get to Reno at 170 KIAS.

So it seems logical to me that the crew would be sticking as close as possible to 170 KIAS even if no one anywhere mentioned a "target speed". Does that seem logical to you?

Cutting and pasting is not one of my computer skills. Maybe I should learn how to do it.

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Jerry wrote

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Any criminal Attorney will tell you a thief will die before he releases his stolen Goods . Don't you agree 377.



I think the chances of a thief tossing serious money out is nearly zero. There has to be another explanation as to how the money got to Tena Bar. It's just an opinion, but I've represented a lot of criminals and not one of them would have let go of $5800 in hard cash to send a message. They'd find another way.

377



Why couldn't the money have just "dropped from the sky" near the Fazio's property and then "migrated" over to Tina Bar in the normal course of water flowing, wind blowing, etc.?

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Robert99: How much of this realy matters if Cooper didn't deploy his parachute. The man has not been seen or heard from since Nov 1971. The only thing that has been found is $5800. No one that would Hyjack an aircraft in that era would turn loose of his Booty.The money wasn't planted on Tinas bar . It washed up there. I keep saying lets go back to the Basic's. The basic problem is the man had to deploy a chute he was not familar with. His choice of clothing was not that of an experienced jumper. The way he secured the money bag to his body was not that of an experienced jumper. His choice of chutes was stupid. If he had of deployed his chute he would have gotten tangeld up in it. He had no sense of direction nor would he have been able to sustain a spin. He would have had only Micro seconds to respond to any trouble.Nothing about this case matches anything but simple facts that the hyjacker is not present to talk about it and a small amount of money was found that the army corps of engineers states came from the Washougal watershed.Jerry



Jerry, I agree with you that in all probability Cooper died in the jump. I also agree with you that the money wasn't "planted" at Tina Bar but got there by some natural process.

I disagree with you on the Washougal watershed theory since there are no facts supporting this and the starting point for this theory seems to be that the money had to come a long way down the river.

Cooper's clothes, his parachute selection, and (with one exception) everything else is then irrevelant.

The only thing that matters is the ground track of the aircraft and the point that Cooper seperated from the aircraft. Cooper hit the ground (not water) not more than a quarter of a mile laterally or about a half mile further down track from that jump point.

You should give some thought to how that narrows down the possible landing point for Cooper.

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Geoger: Possibly water dams and there locations.Jerry



So: wing dams across the river deflected approx
2-1/2 bundles of wet bills all the way across the
river (under water or on the surface?), and the tide
pushed the package up tens of feet inland on the
beach to the tide line?

Do I have this right?

Was this in the Corps of Engineers' report?



If an Army COE hydraulics engineer put that in a report.. he needs to be fired.

Remember now.. I lived on my boat in marinas just upstream and just downstream of Tena Bar... on both sides of the Columbia. I have spent a LOT of time on that stretch of the river and I can asure you that the tide does not affect the river as much as does water release from Bonneville Dam and the water entering the river from rain or snowmelt. The Columbia does not flow upriver there as it does a little 60 miles downstream where my property is on Puget Island. The tide can make the river rise a foot or so BUT... it does not flow upriver as it stacks up against the ocean water coming into the estuary from the Pacific.

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Jerry wrote

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Any criminal Attorney will tell you a thief will die before he releases his stolen Goods . Don't you agree 377.



I think the chances of a thief tossing serious money out is nearly zero. There has to be another explanation as to how the money got to Tena Bar. It's just an opinion, but I've represented a lot of criminals and not one of them would have let go of $5800 in hard cash to send a message. They'd find another way.

377



Why couldn't the money have just "dropped from the sky" near the Fazio's property and then "migrated" over to Tina Bar in the normal course of water flowing, wind blowing, etc.?



Or, been deposited at T_Bar during the 1976
tornado that ripped right through the drop zone
depositing things miles in every direction?

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Jo wrote
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I take the will into the office. Because I am NOT on the box name I cannot enter the room when they unlock it. They return with a magazine - and I questioned if this was all that was in the box. This is where he had put the issue of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - about "The Man Who Knew To Much". I did NOT understand this.



Jo,

Did you hand them Duanes safe deposit box key?

The bank can't open it without two keys, their key and the customer key. I remember in some criminal case where the cops got a search warrant for a safe deposit box and the bank had to drill out the customer lock cylinder.

Something sounds"off" about the story about the bank opening it outside of your presence. Banks have all sorts of procedures to protect against claims that they have pilfered box contents. I can't see them exposing themselves to such a claim by insisting on opening it out of your sight.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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If an Army COE hydraulics engineer put that in a report.. he needs to be fired.

Remember now.. I lived on my boat in marinas just upstream and just downstream of Tena Bar... on both sides of the Columbia. I have spent a LOT of time on that stretch of the river and I can asure you that the tide does not affect the river as much as does water release from Bonneville Dam and the water entering the river from rain or snowmelt. The Columbia does not flow upriver there as it does a little 60 miles downstream where my property is on Puget Island. The tide can make the river rise a foot or so BUT... it does not flow upriver as it stacks up against the ocean water coming into the estuary from the Pacific.



he didnt say it the way Jerry is portraying it - he
stated it as one option among several, trying to
cover the obvious largest options including the Lewis
option which he said was untendable.

When he mentioned the Washougal he also set
conditions and said the money would have had to
arrive by some means within 10 feet of the
Washougal, because the Washougal was no more
than 10 foot out of its banks in 1979, the last time
the Washougal flooded.

1978 was a severe drought year. 1978 broke in late
December with heavy rain and flooding into 1979. It
is this fact that leads H and his colleagues to say
'the money had only been at Tina Bar for a year
prior to discovery'. They are basing everything on
a Washougal washdown in 1979 when the
Washougal was 10 feet out of its banks.

If there is a weakness in the report its a failure to
mention-examine minor hydro scenarios. They were
evidently looking for large hydro events to explain
the deposit, not a combination of smaller events
stretched out over time, and they had rejected the
dredge deposit scenario for some reason.

Tom might have a different feeling he gets from
the report, but this is how I read it.

Actually, if there is one central fact about that report
(and Palmer's recitation of the same scenario), it is
they really could not define one single cause with
certainty.

Palmer is much more adamant in his recitation of
the Washougal theory, than the COE hydrologist is.
That is clear. Tom says Palmer came up with the
Washougal theory first, I say another did - Im not
sure who is right because there was a third person
who also issued a report. The dates on the reports
seem to favor Palmer being first ???

But Palmer was almost strident in his 'proclamation'
of the Washougal theory to the extent he got a
rather strong reaction against his assumptions
from several agents when he presented his ideas.
One agenr in particular basically told Palmer he
didnt believe him. But Palmer's assessment became
the official version in Portland, at least. The agents
that disagreed with Palmewr were at the Seattle
office.

Let me finish with this -

Palmer seems to want to explain not only the arrival
of the money at Tina Bar, without saying anything
about hydrology between T-Bar and the Washougal,
he even takes on the condition of the money saying
the money "rolled" to its location, which he says
accounts for its condition. This sort of oberkill
'guessing' on Palmer's part brought several agents
laughter and challenged him openly. The agents
were polite but wondered if something other than
rolling mightbe involved, in explaining the money's
condition.

Its like Palmer was trying to accomplish too
much given his position (and range of expertise),
and caused several agents to react negatively.

Another problem is, one of Palmer's areas of
expertise was in the area of sediment erosion
(beach sediment flow and erosion). For example,
he was deeply involved in sediment flow and erosion
issues after Mt St Helens blew. His Tina Bar work
doesnt say anything (so fara s I know) about
sediment flow or erosion over time, at Tina Bar.
I find that unusual. If there was anything he should
have said something about, even a brief few
comments, beach erosion at the money site, should
have been in his report.

(Tom has a slightly different view of this than I do
based on a different vita for Palmer than I have.
Galen Cook has also done research on these
matters, actually hired several hydrologists one of
which knew Palmer, so Galen has his own set of facts
he thinks hold up, so far as the Palmer report is
concerned).

It is note quite as 'cut-and-dried' as Jerry Thomas
is trying to portray it.

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Georger,

It's easy taking shots at everyone else's Tena Bar explanation.

How do YOU think it got there?

377



Im waiting on the last clue from you -

everyone else's explanation? who (everyone else)?
Are you talking about Jerry and Blevins? Who is this
"everyone else". Your Honor - objection. He's
badgering the hippopontamus and the homeless
guy.

BTW, you knew it was Tosaw represented the
Ingrams, eh? Tosaw got some bills.

88s

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OK Georger. I'll make it simpler. Forget the snide remark that formerly preceded my question.

I now ask only this:

How do YOU think the cash got to Tena Bar?

Pretend this is a Federal Grand Jury. You've been granted immunity. You can't dodge the question or plead the fifth. You can't even have counsel present. If you don't answer you will soon be making some very close friends in a place with free room and board.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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\The Fazio's also remembeed the money shards at the high water line and relayed this to Larry Carr and me in 2009. .




Strange. Fazios told Bruce and others - no money shards, anywhere.

Quote



A correction is required. I have posted here many times that Al Fazio told me that he saw money shards along the high-tide line. Richard Fazio never confirmed that, as far as I know.

Al Fazio adamantly told me numerous times that the FBI never found a single shard buried in the sand at any depth, anywhere on the beach. Further, Al is convinced the three bundles washed-up via natural means, and that the shards found on the tide line came from the three bundles and were roughed-up in wave action as they got buried/uncovered in the sand.

However, Al was late to the party, and his time-line or recall - or my understanding of what he said - is mixed up and certainly needs clarifying. Nevertheless, Al told me that he had no knowledge of the Ingram money find when it happened, and he went off to a cattle auction. By the time he came back the feds had already ringed his property with yellow tape, and agents blocked his pick-up truck and cattle trailer from entering. It took a little doing to get clearence for Al to drive onto his property, and after he did he went to the beach, was asked to procure back-hoes and such, and did so. Soon after he started digging.

That said, I distinctly recall Al telling me that the cattle auction was on a Sunday, which was the day that Brian found the money. I'm not sure exactly what day the feds showed up on the beach and roped off the area - Monday or Tues - but certainly they were digging by Wednesday. So, there are some gaps here, and any clarification anyone can provide is appreciated.

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So it seems logical to me that the crew would be sticking as close as possible to 170 KIAS even if no one anywhere mentioned a "target speed". Does that seem logical to you?



It is logical that they would stick to 170KIAS over the vast majority of the distance. It is illogical that they would nowhere go slower. It is logical that they would try to help Cooper so he would not get mad and blow them up, and would get off their plane.

My optimum driving speed on a road trip is about 60 mph. If ever I could make myself try to keep it that slow, I would go faster or slower at times, but it would have only a small impact on my range or gas usage as long as I departed from my optimum speed for only a small portion of the whole trip.

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It is logical that they would try to help Cooper...



Didn't Rat want to airdrop a Thanksgiving meal to the Dungeness Crabs lurking off Clatsop Spit?

They'd have picked Cooper to the bone. Those Dungies don't leave much. Ask Amazon. ;)

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Three packets were part of a single bundle that was all smashed together. Look on the ground under trees or brush. Leaves and sticks pile up. Their own weight and repeated rains cause it all to be almost cemented together.

At one point an FBI agent announced that all the money found at T-bar was from a single bundle.

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It is logical that they would try to help Cooper...



Didn't Rat want to airdrop a Thanksgiving meal to the Dungeness Crabs lurking off Clatsop Spit?

They'd have picked Cooper to the bone. Those Dungies don't leave much. Ask Amazon. ;)

377


I still have a dozen of those Clatsop Spit Dungeness sitting in the freezer that came from right in front of Bouy 20 down to Bouy 14..... NUMMERS.

Fishing for sturgeon anywhere near there is damn near impossible most of the year due to the amount of crab. You cannot keep bait on a hook there to save your life. It's also amazing what they can do to anything that you put in a bait well in a crab pot since they are exceedingly numerous out there. It seems most are juveniles since there are several places along that side of the river from Hammond to the spit itself that has a LOT of females that are full of eggs at times of the year, so plenty of young crab. Shall we say they are well fed there?
Another good place is all along the north side of the South Jetty around the corner from Social Security Beach, but only an idiot would take a boat into that maelstrom since it is always breaking surf over in the sandy shifting shallows by the huge jetty rocks.
Baker Bay on the north side of the river near Ilwaco also has great numbers of crab.

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That Tena Bar money is so damned frustrating!!!! You really messed things up Brian. ;)

Can't we just ignore the decrepit cash and proceed with our favorite theories about the flight path and exit point?

While we are at it, forget the placard too.

Now then, let's get on with our important work.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Amazon wrote
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only an idiot would take a boat into that maelstrom...



Sometimes, when big swells are running, that comment applies to the whole region around the Columbia River Bar. I've been scared real bad there a few times. Imagine a boat loaded down with 80,000 lbs of fish and a top speed of 7.8 knots.

There are no marine reserve or AAD equivalents that will save you if you mess up running that bar. It's like BASE jumping.

So Amazon, what's your Tena Bar theory?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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What’s great about the Cooper story is how so many truths can exist because there is evidence to back every faith system till mortal combat decides the one true answer. Sorta like how the Druids and Easter Islanders got their asses kicked because worshiping rock is simply not right. But this was before science where illness and earthquakes were blamed on witches and gremlins.

Now the Cooper money has been suggested (described with faux authority) to have been bound in bundles containing somewhere less than 100 bills to 1,000 strapped with rubber bands or paper straps or both. It makes no difference which, as it will be discounted as trivia and irrelevant so there is no need for any accurate measurement. There is just as much probability the money was wrapped in a single ‘mother pack’ of all $200,000 which was bound with an inner tube from the front tire of a Harley.

Same is true for the aircraft’s ground track, it could be anywhere from center line of V-23 to several hundred thousand miles off course since it is all a matter of trivia when you want the plane to be at point X at H hour so that matches with what is bouncing around in that topsy-turvy hat holder.

Whether you choose Cooperhenge, Cooper Island or the Northwest lines of Peru, you can always change things around. I’m going to worship Tina. Not because she holds any theory or information, I just really like looking at her.

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What’s great about the Cooper story is how so many truths can exist because there is evidence to back every faith system till mortal combat decides the one true answer. Sorta like how the Druids and Easter Islanders got their asses kicked because worshiping rock is simply not right. But this was before science where illness and earthquakes were blamed on witches and gremlins.

Now the Cooper money has been suggested (described with faux authority) to have been bound in bundles containing somewhere less than 100 bills to 1,000 strapped with rubber bands or paper straps or both. It makes no difference which, as it will be discounted as trivia and irrelevant so there is no need for any accurate measurement. There is just as much probability the money was wrapped in a single ‘mother pack’ of all $200,000 which was bound with an inner tube from the front tire of a Harley.

Same is true for the aircraft’s ground track, it could be anywhere from center line of V-23 to several hundred thousand miles off course since it is all a matter of trivia when you want the plane to be at point X at H hour so that matches with what is bouncing around in that topsy-turvy hat holder.

Whether you choose Cooperhenge, Cooper Island or the Northwest lines of Peru, you can always change things around. I’m going to worship Tina. Not because she holds any theory or information, I just really like looking at her.



Could not have said it better, myself -

THEY and THEM will be back with their monoliths
and radios soon to correct mistakes made with
Homoerectus. The forum and Citizen Sleuths should
now turn their attentsun to predicting the date.

Its all in the wing dams and radios!
http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Classes/MATH198/tow
nsend/math.html

http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/radio.html

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Jo wrote

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I take the will into the office. Because I am NOT on the box name I cannot enter the room when they unlock it. They return with a magazine - and I questioned if this was all that was in the box. This is where he had put the issue of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - about "The Man Who Knew To Much". I did NOT understand this.



Jo,

Did you hand them Duanes safe deposit box key?

The bank can't open it without two keys, their key and the customer key. I remember in some criminal case where the cops got a search warrant for a safe deposit box and the bank had to drill out the customer lock cylinder.

Something sounds"off" about the story about the bank opening it outside of your presence. Banks have all sorts of procedures to protect against claims that they have pilfered box contents. I can't see them exposing themselves to such a claim by insisting on opening it out of your sight.

377



There was the receipt, I had the will and I can't remember if I found a key or not - I really do NOT remember if I had a key, but I was NOT allowed to be in the room when it was opened.

My name was NOT on the box, but they never told me if someone elses name was on it.

This is what happened! I have no answers for you - I have the receipt of the box and the magazine. The bank is no longer there...was bought by someone else and I do NOT know how they handle boxes.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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