DB Cooper

[arfuller 0]

Quote

arfuller: What date did the FBI release and confirm the results of Marla Coopers polygraph Test?This I would like too see. Now remeber it must be an official release that you post and not second hand Info. Jerry

I thought I answered that above.

I guess I'll have to back off on this one a bit. I'm sure I've read it, but I couldn't Google it. Here is the closest I found.

http://abcnews.go.com/...4258726#.TtwtfWPTpGS

>>When asked if this "no match" finding damaged Marla Cooper's credibility, Gutt replied it did not. "We haven't come up with anything that is inconsistent with her story," he said. Marla Cooper also passed an FBI polygraph test about the case.<<

The full article talks a little bit about Marla's family and the FBI's investigation. I can't really speak about why the FBI does what it does because I don't know, but I got that gut feeling she's 100% truthful. The Daily OK interview convinced me of that.

Marla said the interview was in January. Like I said, I guess I was wrong.

The Money Connection

[Hominid 0]

Quote

Hominid, That is not the specific post that I remember Carr making for the Orchard's weather.

Right. That post was not one of those in which he gave the wind speeds and directions for different altitudes. That one only has the reference to 30MPH.

Post 1286 is one of those in which he gave winds at different altitudes.

This is probably the one you remember. No. It doesn't have the cloud layers.

[BruceSmith 3]

Marla, update, toothbrush, and Arden, 12.4.11



I spoke with Marla Cooper today; in addition, yesterday, I spoke with Arden Dorney, the cop who helped get her story to the FBI.

Here is a brief update on some bits and piece floating around.

Marla confirmed that the FBI obtained a toothbrush of LD’s and they are examining it for fingerprints. She said that the Bureau got the toothbrush independently of her.

She said that the only item of LD’s that she has is the guitar strap that belongs to her mother. She also said that Dewey’s family had a suitcase of memorabilia from LD, mostly filled with pictures.

I queried her extensively on the timing of the release of Geoffrey Gray’s book and the news leak from the FBI about her case and calling it a “most promising lead.”

Marla adamantly denied that there was any collusion or coordination of these events, although she readily acknowledged that it did look suspicious. “It must have looked shocking to you,” is how she phrased it.

She said that she had never heard of Geoffrey until he was appearing widely in media during this flap, and she had no prior knowledge that he was writing a book about DB Cooper. In fact, Marla said she had no idea that the FBI had discussed her claims with any journalists and said that she called Curtis Eng to chastise him for not giving her any warning.

When I questioned her further and asked if she perceived any orchestration of events in the Cooper case, she immediately replied, “I feel there is Divine Orchestration.”

Marla then commenced in a short soliloquy, describing how she has “faith in God’s timing, and his plan to get this story out (to the world).”

She added that she feels she is the “one to tell it,” and that God “wants her to tell this story.”

Along those lines, she said that she has been traveling around and visiting a lot of relatives, and her goals is to learn the truth of LD and this event, and to bring some closure to her family.

Marla indicated that she feels very strong ties to family, and also to the roots of her family. The first period of her life was spent in the Pacific Northwest, and her current road trip to Seattle and the Portland symposium is her first time back since she was nine years old, when her family relocated to New Mexico.

“I cried when I got to the Oregon border,” she told me at the symposium. “I feel like I am home.”

Those sentiments continue, and today she told me that she feels her family moved away from these ancestral lands in order to protect his family from LD’s crime of skyjacking Flight 305.

“It was hideous to me that we left (Oregon), and moved to New Mexico. Not seeing my grandmother – my two grandmothers was a big loss.”

Marla told me that her father, Don Cooper, had four brothers: The oldest was Willy Clyde, then LD, Dewey and the youngest was Wendell. The family moved to Oregon when the boys were young, and originally lived in Missouri in the towns of Cassville and Shell Knob, located in the southwestern portion of the state.

Marla was unable to give me any specifics on LD’s physical aspects. She said his eyes were like his grandmother's –“almost black.” She said she couldn’t even guess his height, although she said that LD was taller than her father and Don was about 5’8” or 5’9”. She also stated that LD had dark skin, and looked “almost ethnic.”

She also said that LD always wore black clothing and that the family jokingly called him “Johnny Cash.” In addition, he had near-black, slicked-back hair that appeared greasy.

In terms of media coverage of her news about Curtis being convinced that LD is DB and thus closing the case, she said she has been talking to lots of media, including Canadian stations, and that the story has a fair amount of traction nationally, although she acknowledged that it hasn’t made the front page of the New York Times.


Arden Dorney

I spoke with Arden on Saturday. Marla was kind enough to give me his phone number when we spoke at the symposium

Arden is 69 and retired for the past ten years. We had a lengthy and amicable chat. Arden gave me some vital inforamtion and clarified many points.

First, he was not an Oklahoma Highway Patrol officer. Rather, he was a detective in the Elk City Police Department for many years; then became associated with the state Drug Task Force. Elk City is half-way between Oklahoma City and Amarillo, Texas, directly on I-40, and is also a former way-station on Route 66.

Elk City had a population of about 40,000 when Arden was active, and it currently has a police force of 19 officers and 3 detectives.

Arden said that he met Marla when she was a part-time housing designer, and in tones similar to Marla, he too, describes the encounter as a result of “divine intervention.”

“We just bonded,” he said, adding, “It all just fit together,” referring to how he and Marla exchanged information and how the pieces of LD story seemed to dove-tail. However, he acknowledged that he has not a single piece of solid, concrete evidence – no money, no chute, no briefcase, no flares and no bomb.

Nevertheless, he is convinced LD is DB.

“The case is solved,” he declared. “As a former investigator, there is no doubt in my mind that Marla is the niece of DB Cooper.”

Arden told me that he made the initial discovery of LD’s whereabouts – not the FBI – and that he found LD in Sparks, Nevada.

About this time Arden’s cell phone began to fade, but not before he readily agreed to a follow-up conversation.

Before he left, Arden told me that the second law enforcement officer who joined him in developing Marla’s case was a former FBI agent with whom he had extensive professional dealings.

“He got action on the case,” Arden said, adding that when he and Marla tried to interest Curtis Eng in the lead he turned a deaf ear. “But, the FBI always respects their own.”

I’ll have more on Arden once we resume our interview.

[JerryThomas 0]

arfuller. That is not confimation that the FBI confirms her story. What date did they confirm her story and release a statement that says without a shadow of a doubt they believe her story to be true? And what questions did they base this on?.Im sure it is not the same story she is telling now .How long did this test last. Where is this published or confirmation of this story? Jerry

[377 22]

Quote

Blevins : I guess the real question is, could anyone survive this jump? 377 and I have discussed this in detail.377 now has his doubts.Tom Kaye measured the length of cord that was cut from the opened chute. There was just enough missing that would allow cooper to attach the money bag to his side. This was a mistake that an experienced skydiver would never make. After 377 and I discussed this he was in agreement that the chances of Cooper surviving this jump was next to none. Jerry

If he pulled right off the stairs he'd be OK. No spin and hanging under an open chute. Look at the slo mo video Snow made of the Air America 727 jumps. No spin, no tumble. A squidding canopy decelerates the jumper smoothly.

If he delayed the pull, big trouble. As soon as he hit the air beyond the area shielded by the plane KABOOM. In the WFFC jet jumps many people tumbled on exit. Fanny packs and velcroed wrist altimeters were ripped off a few people. My tight goggles were ripped off my face. Only my helmet over the strap held them on.

No big deal. Sunny day. Perfect horizon. No asymmetrical payload bag.
In a few seconds the experienced jumpers stabilized. BUT, the way you stabilize is to orient yourself with the horizon AND a heading reference. On a cloudy night you might have NEITHER. You can arch hard and you will end up belly to earth, but you can't stop a spin without a heading reference. An unchecked spin can increase in rotational speed until the jumper blacks out. An attached payload bag, unless tightly fastened and presenting a symmetrical drag profile relative to the jumper, will cause a spin.

At the symposium I showed photos of a test jump I did with a large canvas bag affixed to one leg. It wasn't carrying loot, just radio telemetry gear. During initial freefall that bag almost flipped me over. I managed to compensate with my body. My exit speed was low (about 75 knots). If I had hit the airstream at Coopers exit speed I'd have gone unstable. In daylight I could have fixed it, especially as I slowed down to 120 mph terminal velocity. At might with no horizon or heading reference I don't think I could have stabilized.

So I only agree with Jerry in one exit scenario, a delayed pull. If Cooper knew to pull right off the stairs I think he was stable, got a good chute and landed alive. After that I can't say. A water landing at night could easily be fatal. Even if he alighted on ground there could be problems.

I've done a jet jump. I've made three jumps with a big bag. I've made jumps with a walkie talkie and operated it after opening.. I've never combined all three but I can tell you that at night it would be a major handful.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

Hominid, That is not the specific post that I remember Carr making for the Orchard's weather.

Right. That post was not one of those in which he gave the wind speeds and directions for different altitudes. That one only has the reference to 30MPH.

Post 1286 is one of those in which he gave winds at different altitudes.

This is probably the one you remember. No. It doesn't have the cloud layers.

Hominid, At this point it doesn't look like I can positively identify the specific post. Sorry.

[JerryThomas 0]

Bruce: Did she say why she has gone out of her way to contact every TV station And news paper accross the country in the last 72 hours?Tis I can prove. Did she or anyone else say why her and her families story keeps changing?What is she going to say next week when the DC office says LD was not Cooper? Jerry

[BruceSmith 3]

I will be traveling to San Francisco on December 30 and spending a few days in Marin County endeavoring to speak with Sheridan Peterson and dynamic duo of SA Mary Jane Fryar and Long-Tall-Drink-of-Water-SA Nicole Deveraux, who swabbed him and listened to two hours of mud hut stories.

Back to Cooper County HQ on the 3rd.

[JerryThomas 0]

Mark: He had that 21 lb bag tied to his side. As we discussed , what unexpected problems would that have played with in a half a second of leaving the aircraft. Now remember he thinks this bag is going to remain in place.The bag and the extra weight will do what. Jerry

[Hominid 0]

Robert,

No "sorry" needed. I've got copies of the winds and weather stuff. I was just hoping in vain for that 10K' wind info specifically for the probable jump locale and time.

[arfuller 0]

Quote

arfuller. That is not confimation that the FBI confirms her story. What date did they confirm her story and release a statement that says without a shadow of a doubt they believe her story to be true? And what questions did they base this on?.Im sure it is not the same story she is telling now .How long did this test last. Where is this published or confirmation of this story? Jerry

Let me see. I said I would have to back off. I said I was wrong. Do I owe you money?

The Money Connection

[JerryThomas 0]

377: You have made jumps with a big bag and other equipment yet your and experienced skydiver and one of the best, you knew how to carry your added equipment and what to expect. Still you were chalenged . How long have you been in the sport 42 yrs. However Cooper was not that experienced, his actions proved it. There is no way a novice jumper could have overcome the unexpected problems he would have experinced during this jump. You lost your googles in the blast what do you think an inproperly mounted money bag of 21lbs could have done.Jerry

[Hominid 0]

Quote

Let me see. I said I would have to back off. I said I was wrong. Do I owe you money?

Didn't "they" tell you? If you back off you have to pay everyone on the thread!

[arfuller 0]

Quote

Quote

Let me see. I said I would have to back off. I said I was wrong. Do I owe you money?

Didn't "they" tell you? If you back off you have to pay everyone on the thread!

But it's only the first time in this lifetime.

The Money Connection

[smokin99 0]

I'd even be a little less skeptical if someone could put LD in a parachute. I know some say that DB coulda been a total whuffo with a lot of confidence or maybe even a death wish. I'm not buying it. That's why I'm always on the lookout for chute connections for contenders. I know, but there are worse ways to pass the time.

I just have the gut feeling that this wasn't DB's first rodeo in a chute.....Let's see I'm gonna hijack a plane by jumping out of it with a parachute through that door back there....which might or might not open in mid air....even though I've never been in a chute before. Ah who cares......life's not worth living anyway and baby needs new shoes. Instead of a free flight to Mexico, I'll ask for a parachute - if I make it that will be a plus.

I just don't buy it. So can anyone put LD in a chute?

Actually, it would be interesting to know if any of the folks that actually hijacked a plane and left with a parachute DID NOT have some type of experience with a chute.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe in order to be a hijacker anyway you gotta have the kind of cojones or desperation that would also permit you to jump out of a plane without any type of previous training. You know like "it goes on like this and you pull this cord". Or maybe I'm just putting too much drama into the jumping out of a plane thing.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Hominid 0]

Quote

But it's only the first time in this lifetime.

One strike, you're out. Good life lesson. You must have a lot of years left to benefit from this.

[377 22]

Blevins wrote

Quote

Back in my younger and crazier days, I played a lot of rock and roll around the Northwest. I'm proud to say I was a part of what was called back then the 'Northwest sound'.

So Robert, did you get any quality time with Courtney Love? Groupies?


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Smokin99 asks:

“Actually, it would be interesting to know if any of the folks that actually hijacked a plane and left with a parachute DID NOT have some type of experience with a chute.”

Martin McNally not only requested chutes he wanted instructions on how to use them. He had no jump experience.

He jumped at night but lost his machine gun, money and……. pants. Fortunately he kept his dignity.

He made it to a motel after the Sheriff picked up the pant less hijacker with twigs in his hair and some bruises. The Sheriff was out looking for the hijacker but McNally didn’t fit the description. I guess guys walking down the road sans pants and scraped up is par for the course in Peru, IN. I dunno.

[JerryThomas 0]

Farflung: So what you saying is anyone experienced or not can could have done this crime and survived. And you believe LD Cooper was the Hijacker. Jerry

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Smokin99 asks:

“Actually, it would be interesting to know if any of the folks that actually hijacked a plane and left with a parachute DID NOT have some type of experience with a chute.”

Martin McNally not only requested chutes he wanted instructions on how to use them. He had no jump experience.

He jumped at night but lost his machine gun, money and……. pants. Fortunately he kept his dignity.

He made it to a motel after the Sheriff picked up the pant less hijacker with twigs in his hair and some bruises. The Sheriff was out looking for the hijacker but McNally didn’t fit the description. I guess guys walking down the road sans pants and scraped up is par for the course in Peru, IN. I dunno.

I shoulda known -- two for the price of one. You have the answer and make me laugh too.

So much for my gut feelings, huh? Next time I'll take my little purple capsule before I spout off.
But he did ask for instructions on the chute which DB didn't - as far as we know. So that at least makes him a somewhat? informed whuffo? But I guess it still shoots the hell out of my theory that someone wouldn't be stupid? or brave? enough to do it.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[arfuller 0]

Quote

Marla, update, toothbrush, and Arden, 12.4.11



I spoke with Marla Cooper today; in addition, yesterday, I spoke with Arden Dorney, the cop who helped get her story to the FBI.

Here is a brief update on some bits and piece floating around.

Marla confirmed that the FBI obtained a toothbrush of LD’s and they are examining it for fingerprints. She said that the Bureau got the toothbrush independently of her.

She said that the only item of LD’s that she has is the guitar strap that belongs to her mother. She also said that Dewey’s family had a suitcase of memorabilia from LD, mostly filled with pictures.

I queried her extensively on the timing of the release of Geoffrey Gray’s book and the news leak from the FBI about her case and calling it a “most promising lead.”

Marla adamantly denied that there was any collusion or coordination of these events, although she readily acknowledged that it did look suspicious. “It must have looked shocking to you,” is how she phrased it.

She said that she had never heard of Geoffrey until he was appearing widely in media during this flap, and she had no prior knowledge that he was writing a book about DB Cooper. In fact, Marla said she had no idea that the FBI had discussed her claims with any journalists and said that she called Curtis Eng to chastise him for not giving her any warning.

When I questioned her further and asked if she perceived any orchestration of events in the Cooper case, she immediately replied, “I feel there is Divine Orchestration.”

Marla then commenced in a short soliloquy, describing how she has “faith in God’s timing, and his plan to get this story out (to the world).”

She added that she feels she is the “one to tell it,” and that God “wants her to tell this story.”

Along those lines, she said that she has been traveling around and visiting a lot of relatives, and her goals is to learn the truth of LD and this event, and to bring some closure to her family.

Marla indicated that she feels very strong ties to family, and also to the roots of her family. The first period of her life was spent in the Pacific Northwest, and her current road trip to Seattle and the Portland symposium is her first time back since she was nine years old, when her family relocated to New Mexico.

“I cried when I got to the Oregon border,” she told me at the symposium. “I feel like I am home.”

Those sentiments continue, and today she told me that she feels her family moved away from these ancestral lands in order to protect his family from LD’s crime of skyjacking Flight 305.

“It was hideous to me that we left (Oregon), and moved to New Mexico. Not seeing my grandmother – my two grandmothers was a big loss.”

Marla told me that her father, Don Cooper, had four brothers: The oldest was Willy Clyde, then LD, Dewey and the youngest was Wendell. The family moved to Oregon when the boys were young, and originally lived in Missouri in the towns of Cassville and Shell Knob, located in the southwestern portion of the state.

Marla was unable to give me any specifics on LD’s physical aspects. She said his eyes were like his grandmother's –“almost black.” She said she couldn’t even guess his height, although she said that LD was taller than her father and Don was about 5’8” or 5’9”. She also stated that LD had dark skin, and looked “almost ethnic.”

She also said that LD always wore black clothing and that the family jokingly called him “Johnny Cash.” In addition, he had near-black, slicked-back hair that appeared greasy.

In terms of media coverage of her news about Curtis being convinced that LD is DB and thus closing the case, she said she has been talking to lots of media, including Canadian stations, and that the story has a fair amount of traction nationally, although she acknowledged that it hasn’t made the front page of the New York Times.


Arden Dorney

I spoke with Arden on Saturday. Marla was kind enough to give me his phone number when we spoke at the symposium

Arden is 69 and retired for the past ten years. We had a lengthy and amicable chat. Arden gave me some vital inforamtion and clarified many points.

First, he was not an Oklahoma Highway Patrol officer. Rather, he was a detective in the Elk City Police Department for many years; then became associated with the state Drug Task Force. Elk City is half-way between Oklahoma City and Amarillo, Texas, directly on I-40, and is also a former way-station on Route 66.

Elk City had a population of about 40,000 when Arden was active, and it currently has a police force of 19 officers and 3 detectives.

Arden said that he met Marla when she was a part-time housing designer, and in tones similar to Marla, he too, describes the encounter as a result of “divine intervention.”

“We just bonded,” he said, adding, “It all just fit together,” referring to how he and Marla exchanged information and how the pieces of LD story seemed to dove-tail. However, he acknowledged that he has not a single piece of solid, concrete evidence – no money, no chute, no briefcase, no flares and no bomb.

Nevertheless, he is convinced LD is DB.

“The case is solved,” he declared. “As a former investigator, there is no doubt in my mind that Marla is the niece of DB Cooper.”

Arden told me that he made the initial discovery of LD’s whereabouts – not the FBI – and that he found LD in Sparks, Nevada.

About this time Arden’s cell phone began to fade, but not before he readily agreed to a follow-up conversation.

Before he left, Arden told me that the second law enforcement officer who joined him in developing Marla’s case was a former FBI agent with whom he had extensive professional dealings.

“He got action on the case,” Arden said, adding that when he and Marla tried to interest Curtis Eng in the lead he turned a deaf ear. “But, the FBI always respects their own.”

I’ll have more on Arden once we resume our interview.

Thanks for the update.

The Money Connection

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Blevins : I guess the real question is, could anyone survive this jump? 377 and I have discussed this in detail.377 now has his doubts.Tom Kaye measured the length of cord that was cut from the opened chute. There was just enough missing that would allow cooper to attach the money bag to his side. This was a mistake that an experienced skydiver would never make. After 377 and I discussed this he was in agreement that the chances of Cooper surviving this jump was next to none. Jerry

If he pulled right off the stairs he'd be OK. No spin and hanging under an open chute. Look at the slo mo video Snow made of the Air America 727 jumps. No spin, no tumble. A squidding canopy decelerates the jumper smoothly.

If he delayed the pull, big trouble. As soon as he hit the air beyond the area shielded by the plane KABOOM. In the WFFC jet jumps many people tumbled on exit. Fanny packs and velcroed wrist altimeters were ripped off a few people. My tight goggles were ripped off my face. Only my helmet over the strap held them on.

No big deal. Sunny day. Perfect horizon. No asymmetrical payload bag.
In a few seconds the experienced jumpers stabilized. BUT, the way you stabilize is to orient yourself with the horizon AND a heading reference. On a cloudy night you might have NEITHER. You can arch hard and you will end up belly to earth, but you can't stop a spin without a heading reference. An unchecked spin can increase in rotational speed until the jumper blacks out. An attached payload bag, unless tightly fastened and presenting a symmetrical drag profile relative to the jumper, will cause a spin.

At the symposium I showed photos of a test jump I did with a large canvas bag affixed to one leg. It wasn't carrying loot, just radio telemetry gear. During initial freefall that bag almost flipped me over. I managed to compensate with my body. My exit speed was low (about 75 knots). If I had hit the airstream at Coopers exit speed I'd have gone unstable. In daylight I could have fixed it, especially as I slowed down to 120 mph terminal velocity. At might with no horizon or heading reference I don't think I could have stabilized.

So I only agree with Jerry in one exit scenario, a delayed pull. If Cooper knew to pull right off the stairs I think he was stable, got a good chute and landed alive. After that I can't say. A water landing at night could easily be fatal. Even if he alighted on ground there could be problems.

I've done a jet jump. I've made three jumps with a big bag. I've made jumps with a walkie talkie and operated it after opening.. I've never combined all three but I can tell you that at night it would be a major handful.

377

We need to do these jumps.. with the same gear... and I will do video...

[377 22]

You gotta give Marla credit for letting Bruce talk with her police friend. That's pretty open. She isn't trying to control access to info or people.

At the symposium she was very open and didn't dodge any questions.

Even if she "passed" a polygraph it in no way proves LDC=DBC. It just shows she probably isn't consciously fabricating her story.

Kudos to Bruce. He gets out there and chases down leads.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Jerry Thomas,

I have not said one way or the other since I’m not writing a book or selling anything. But the evidence suggests (just suggests here) that Cooper did not survive. The other theories require major leaps in logic to accept money getting buried and walkie-talkies with omni-directional antennas getting used or raging acts of sodomy in an Airstream trailer.

If Martin McNally did hijack a 727, oops he hijacked two because some guy took his wife’s new car and slammed it into the first plane after seeing reports on the TV….. in a bar. But if he did this then it is just a matter of record that someone without jump experience managed to survive. No money, no weapon or pants…. but alive. It’s just a fact and non-emotive to me. I don’t have a burning desire to manipulate data or suppress information in order to arrive at my favorite answer. Too douche-y for me.

With all this crazy assed grist from actual events it is hard for me to imagine the need to fabricate so much regarding Cooper but it has transcended all other hijackings simply because no one knows who did it. LD will remain the best suspect until someone more attractive than Marla enters the Cooper Coliseum and offers another long dead person.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/itemsofinterest/centennial/centennial_storypage.asp?ID=070729_1_A4_spanc01672

Decide for yourself.

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

With all this crazy assed grist from actual events it is hard for me to imagine the need to fabricate so much regarding Cooper but it has transcended all other hijackings simply because no one knows who did it. LD will remain the best suspect until someone more attractive than Marla enters the Cooper Coliseum and offers another long dead person.

I really would like to enter that coliseum, but really do not want to go to the media.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs