DB Cooper

[377 22]

Amazin wrote

Quote

Oh come on.. we made LOTS of jumps back in the 70's from 7500 feet... known as a 30 sec delay.... we counted.. and hell we even touched 2 or 3 other people while in freefall while counting

I know that Amazon. My first 35 jumps off student status were made without an altimeter. I figured I could count, eyeball it and save the money for jump tickets.

My point is about jumping through clouds at night when you aren't sure about terrain height. It carries some risk. No reason to increase risk by free falling, just do a hop and pop or pop and hop. It also solves the instability problem you might encounter on a high speed exit with a payload bag.

Agree?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

Not to simplify it too much, but anyone who would even consider parachuting from a jet with no prior experience in jumping would have to be psychotic.

Cooper, as far as we know, exhibited no symptoms of psychosis. Impatience with the fueling delay, yes. Psychosis, no.

Alan Fuller: I dropped by your Lulu.com book page. Dump them. Pick up a ten-block of ISBN's from Bowkers and move your stuff HERE. Trust me, this is good advice.

you use that word ___________ a lot? Freudian?

Blevins: get it through your head the weather at
Portland is not universal to the whole northwest,
or at 10,000 feet either.

[georger 244]

Quote

Requests $200,000 by 1700 (5 PM) local on the ground.

Cooper planned a night jump or decided against an abort.

November, 3 PM departure, 93 minutes to complete all tasks.

I’m sensing a planned night jump.

The length of twilight after sunset and before
sunrise is heavily influenced by the latitude and
elevation of the observer. In the Arctic and Antarctic
regions, twilight (if there is any) can last for several
hours. There is no civil twilight at the poles within a
month on either side of the winter solstice. At the
poles, civil twilight can be as long as two weeks,
while at the equator, conditions can go from day to
night in as little as twenty minutes. This is true
because at low latitudes the sun's apparent
movement is perpendicular to the observer's
horizon. As one gets closer to the Arctic and Antarctic
circles, the sun's disk moves toward the observer's
horizon at a lower angle. As the altitude of the
observer increases, the angle of exposure increases,
allowing more time to set one’s orientation.

The precise position of the polar circles—and thus of
the regions where twilight can continue through local
midnight—varies slightly from year to year with
Earth's axial tilt and precession. The lowest latitudes
at which the various twilights can continue through
local midnight are approximately 60.561° ( 60° 33’
43” ), for civil twilight 54.561° ( 54° 33’ 43” ), and
for nautical and astronomical twilight 48.561° ( 48°
33’ 43” ) [4][5].

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Requests $200,000 by 1700 (5 PM) local on the ground.

Cooper planned a night jump or decided against an abort.

November, 3 PM departure, 93 minutes to complete all tasks.

I’m sensing a planned night jump.

Charts for the evening _ ich will post more as
they become germane.

View out the Back door of 305 (well without farm buildings! )

Simple. Basic. Potentially mundane.

Pharisees and the Sadducees fire away.

Marla! Look carefully sweetheart. See ya soon!

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Not to simplify it too much, but anyone who would even consider parachuting from a jet with no prior experience in jumping would have to be psychotic.

Cooper, as far as we know, exhibited no symptoms of psychosis. Impatience with the fueling delay, yes. Psychosis, no.

Alan Fuller: I dropped by your Lulu.com book page. Dump them. Pick up a ten-block of ISBN's from Bowkers and move your stuff HERE. Trust me, this is good advice.

you use that word ___________ a lot? Freudian?

Blevins: get it through your head the weather at
Portland is not universal to the whole northwest,
or at 10,000 feet either.

That's right, it wasn't. I was only demonstrating that it wasn't a big storm on the night of the hijacking, at least in the Portland area. If you like, I can link up to the Sea-Tac report. Conditions were similar.

On a side note, I agree with 377's theory that Cooper probably just pulled the ripcord and let the chute take him right off the end of the stairs. Or he pulled the moment he jumped. My only addition to this theory is that I believe he may have backed down the stairs, rather than going down in a forward position. This is because the stairs would have been dropping, and carrying the load he had, he could easily have tripped and gone headlong down the stairs. Maybe one hand on the rail, the other on the money, perhaps. Stairs drop. He gets to the end and pulls the ripcord. Takes more guts than I would have had, that's for sure.

Im busy.

Be NICE for a change. Stop butting in . . .

[pek771 0]

I think if one has the moxie to hijack an aircraft, one would not be fraidy scared to go out the back door in flight.

[airtwardo 7]

Takes more guts than I would have had, that's for sure.

Quote

Probably got THAT right...


Not necessarily more guts than 'You' personally, but more than most anyone not familiar with parachute jumping.


Initially I was rather skeptical regarding that school of thought, but maybe I was letting 'my' knowledge & experience get in the way.

I wouldn't do it that way for a number of reasons, primarily the fear of incurring deployment forces higher than design parameters.

Just 'might' be going faster forward than you would vertically falling at terminal velocity. . , a catastrophic failure of the canopy in Coopers scenario would really ~ Suck!



~ However the more I think about it, the most I tend to agree, especially if Cooper had minimal or no experience

If he were only trained as a Staic-liner or had no training at all, he may have believed that to be the best/only way to go...the whole free-fall thing takes a little gettin' use to.

Some with no experience find it hard to believe ya can even simply blink & breathe without extensive training. Not difficult to imagine Cooper not being real confident at reaching a ripcord given everything else he had goin' on at he time.




* ~Deploying like that is called a 'Drag Off' or 'Pull Off' as in the canopy pulls you off the 'step' as it starts to create drag...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[arfuller 0]

Quote

Not to simplify it too much, but anyone who would even consider parachuting from a jet with no prior experience in jumping would have to be psychotic.

Cooper, as far as we know, exhibited no symptoms of psychosis. Impatience with the fueling delay, yes. Psychosis, no.

Alan Fuller: I dropped by your Lulu.com book page. Dump them. Pick up a ten-block of ISBN's from Bowkers and move your stuff HERE. Trust me, this is good advice.

Thanks for the advice.

The Money Connection

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Note: Jo Weber does NOT know how to use Facebook. I have tried but it is way over my head. I was able to go to Knoss's site by invitation and a couple of others - managed to make a post on one, but that is all.

This site and other sites like this one are my main means of communicating about Cooper. I do everything else hands on with a search and with the help of many people who have came to my aid. With maps I can hold in my hands and talking to people on the phone.

Now certain individuals realize I have some very special maps - but they do not recognized that I obtained some of these on my own by paying a person to go to Clark Co to do the research work - the person did NOT ask for any re-imbursements, but I gave her what I could. Others have provided me with documents and maps, such as Sluggo and other very generous souls in this thread and the other threads, but the FBI never provided me with anything....except the Ben Gazzard look alike composites I could find NO WHERE in 1996 or 1997. The agent of record actually mailed me the composites and I am the one who has made the Gazzard look-alike available as they appear in the media today in color - not counting the one someone altered for the benefit of Cook/Gossett.

Until then all anyone had was what had appeared in a newspaper or book. Seems like the FBI would have made all of the composites available to the public every yr on the anniversary, but that did not happen in the East or South. Cooper was not going to stick around the N.W. and wait to be arrested.

JT never provided anything...not one IOTA to me. Right now there is a surveyor in WA chewing at the bit, but I can't ask him to do what I need done without some kind of compensation, otherwise I would pick up the phone and say do it and I need to be in WA with him , but my health will not permit that at this time. I can't seem to say in words or describe to anyone what I was shown by Weber in 1979.

Now it has been so long and so much developement - it seems like an impossible task, but I need to find where that tower was and there are other areas I did not get to see in 2010. 15 days with my feeling my way around with some maps and my gut instincts. I just did not have the time or the money to say any longer and the last 3 days I was down in my back.

If I could find where that tower used to be - there might be something there, but I expect why I couldn't find it is that the area is now developed, because the land was flat and wooded not hilly. Yet, where ever that tower was is a key. The road would still be there and from the road it would be at 10:30 on the clock and to the rails for the logging road. What is on the other side of that Logging road and where did it go.

Did it go to one of the other places he took me. How did he know all of the places without a map?

......I just love it when you start talking in the third person........................I'll keep it short Jo...........................do you just sit around and dream some of this stuff up?

No, ClassClown I did not make up or "dream up" one word of the above post. These memories are very very real - otherwise I would not have spent the last 15yrs of my life trying to find a way to get someone to listen or understand what is often referred to as ramblings. If you think I made any of that up - I hope you were entertained at least long enough to get your attention.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[LeeW274 0]

There are definitely different kinds of dynamite. Most of the stuff I saw firsthand was stump powder. It wouldn't surprise me if it comes in different colors depending upon the type. If you use the wrong stuff you can have disastrous results.

[LeeW274 0]

I'll apply basic human nature and Occam. Keep in mind that Occam doesn't rule out complexity - just that in general the least complex of two competing theories generally tends to be the correct one.

With respect to somebody committing a crime I'll go with the least complex explanation. Why? Because in crimes of theft the perpetrator has selected an easier path to getting what they want rather than working for it and getting it through legal means. Usually they'll choose the shortest path to the goal and not something convoluted and complex. So I'll ask the question, "What actions taking the least amount of effort will accomplish the goal?"

Of course, it could also be argued that Cooper was a space alien who used the chutes as a ruse. He merely stepped off those back stairs into the waiting get away saucer, made the calculations for light speed, went back in time, and spent all that money sometime prior to November 24, 1971.

If you like that one, I've also got a Kennedy suicide theory I'll sell ya.

[airtwardo 7]

...and a heartbreaker for the Bears.

Quote

Speaking as a life long Cubs & Bears fan, born in the Land of Lincoln & stamped with that Windy City 'C' at birth, trust me....we're used to it!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[LeeW274 0]

Quote

...................arfuller, once again...............OLD NEWS...........everyone on here knows that..........................

Classclown,

Please forgive me for not going back through and reading every one of the over 29000 comments in this particular forum and making the mistake of asking perfectly valid question.

There was a specific reason WHY I asked that question because I wanted to see if it agreed with some private communication I had received recently from a source that is independent of this forum.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

~ However the more I think about it, the most I tend to agree, especially if Cooper had minimal or no experience

If he were only trained as a Staic-liner or had no training at all, he may have believed that to be the best/only way to go...the whole free-fall thing takes a little gettin' use to.

Some with no experience find it hard to believe ya can even simply blink & breathe without extensive training. Not difficult to imagine Cooper not being real confident at reaching a ripcord given everything else he had goin' on at he time.

Cooper actually did NOT know what was ahead of him - and he fully did NOT expect to survive. Surviving the jump was beyond belief - then this dumb crook had to learn how NOT to get caught. He almost got caught several times - but learned to survive in plane site. Perhaps why he chose me - I was clueless and didn't look back or have expectations.


Now, something I have to say just because

Among the posters in the thread is one who claims to have attended a prestigious and scholastic university. If this person attended this particular university perhaps he would be interested in discussing a book by R.T. Stone called The Journals. Although not published until 1998, this individual should be able to read and understand "A Message from the Council of Ancients".

Is this individual able to decipher or understand the purpose and mission the author intended? If not then perhaps he needs to acquire the book and take it with him on his next expedition into his solitude. Perhaps he will find himself and the answers he seeks by reading the book.

I dare say he will not get past chapter 3. (chapter 2 is only one page).

Yes, I have read the book.

Now to address another poster
ClassClown:
Do you know what 3rd person is?

Jo's fang are showing.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I'll apply basic human nature and Occam. Keep in mind that Occam doesn't rule out complexity - just that in general the least complex of two competing theories generally tends to be the correct one.

With respect to somebody committing a crime I'll go with the least complex explanation. Why? Because in crimes of theft the perpetrator has selected an easier path to getting what they want rather than working for it and getting it through legal means. Usually they'll choose the shortest path to the goal and not something convoluted and complex. So I'll ask the question, "What actions taking the least amount of effort will accomplish the goal?"

Of course, it could also be argued that Cooper was a space alien who used the chutes as a ruse. He merely stepped off those back stairs into the waiting get away saucer, made the calculations for light speed, went back in time, and spent all that money sometime prior to November 24, 1971.

If you like that one, I've also got a Kennedy suicide theory I'll sell ya.

I do NOT have clue who you are, but I would sure like to shake your hand. You summed up something I have been trying to say for yrs now.

There are some basic concepts you have to read back and obtain some history on. Very unlikely Cooper would land anywhere near a phone in 1971, unless he landed near the Heisson General store.

Now if Marla used this she is shaddowing the things I have repeated for yrs. Heisson is a place I went to in 2010 and the moment I sat foot in the store - desperate to find facilities - and upon being allowed to use the NON-public facility knew I had been there before. How could I not remember that place - and when I found this on my last day on my trip in 2010 - and having already purchased my ticket home - my heart longed to stay but I could ill afford another day in WA.

That moment is among the others when I knew I would not my turn back away from this journey into my husbands past.
Yet, there is a power greated than the will of one person and I have to allow myself the time to be at peace....if with no one but, myself. I did all I could and if I failed it is not for the lack of giving it all I had.

Santa knows the truth and he knows who told him the story in 1998 - 1999. Jingle Bell, Santa.
Damien remembers.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[LeeW274 0]

Quote

377 I know you like radio but DB was a loaner and jumped within 12 miles of his car he left near the Portland airport. That was an easy walk to the car and safe get-a-way for a one time Smoke Jumper that was trained to walk out from anywhere.
Bob

There's one hell of a big, wide river between the suspected drop zone and PDX. Additionally, the Interstate bridge has no provision for pedestrian traffic. Anybody trying to walk over it would have stood out like a sore thumb and possibly gotten picked up by the cops for walking on an interstate highway.

So if you're implying that he parked a car near the Portland Airport he wouldn't have had a way to walk back to it if he'd landed on the north side of the Columbia River.

You make a couple of assertions: "DB was a loner"
I'm not certain how that information has come to light. Sure, he jumped out of that plane by himself, but that doesn't give us any insight into his personality. For all we know he was a real cut-up at parties who continually fooled people with his "pull my finger" gag.

"jumped within 12 miles of his car" - That's a pretty specific statement. While I'm pretty convinced an automobile probably did play some part in the getaway I think it's more probable that the car came to him rather than the other way around via an accomplice waiting by a phone.

It's possible he didn't even use a car. He wouldn't have needed to use one to get to PDX. He could have just hopped on the Hilton airport shuttle no questions asked and gotten there for free. Although getting home after the jump would have been a lot more difficult if he had no transportation.

[pek771 0]

Any accomplice implies conspiracy, which is someone else to keep a secret. So, how did he get to PDX? And, did the FBI ask this question of themselves, and investigate...such as other airlines, busses, taxis, etc? What were the results?

[LeeW274 0]

He could have gotten to PDX the very same way I used to get to PDX back in the 1970's. In 1973 I was living in downtown Portland on the Park Blocks. My folks had moved to Alaska. Whenever I'd fly up to see them I'd walk over to the Hilton Hotel and wait in the lobby until the airport shuttle arrived. It was free and they didn't bother to check if you were a guest at the hotel. You just hopped on and got a free ride to the airport.

How could he have gotten to the Hilton Hotel? The Greyhound bus station was close by.

[georger 244]

There's one hell of a big, wide river between the suspected drop zone and PDX. Additionally, the Interstate bridge has no provision for pedestrian traffic. Anybody trying to walk over it would have stood out like a sore thumb and possibly gotten picked up by the cops for walking on an interstate highway.

So if you're implying that he parked a car near the Portland Airport he wouldn't have had a way to walk back to it if he'd landed on the north side of the Columbia River.
.

[Amazon 7]

There's one hell of a big, wide river between the suspected drop zone and PDX. Additionally, the Interstate bridge has no provision for pedestrian traffic. Anybody trying to walk over it would have stood out like a sore thumb and possibly gotten picked up by the cops for walking on an interstate highway.

So if you're implying that he parked a car near the Portland Airport he wouldn't have had a way to walk back to it if he'd landed on the north side of the Columbia River.

Au contraire... I have walked across the pedestrian lanes on each side of the I-5 bridge NUMEROUS times and evenwalked out on the east side lane to watch the 4th of July fireworks for the Fort Vancouver celebration.

Bridge Piccie
I have riden my bike across the bridge quite a few times when I lived in Vancouver and when I had my boat at Pier 99.

Even the new I-205 has a pedestrian lane betwixt the lanes.

[ClassClown 0]

Quote

Quote

...................arfuller, once again...............OLD NEWS...........everyone on here knows that..........................

Classclown,

Please forgive me for not going back through and reading every one of the over 29000 comments in this particular forum and making the mistake of asking perfectly valid question.

There was a specific reason WHY I asked that question because I wanted to see if it agreed with some private communication I had received recently from a source that is independent of this forum.

..........read up like I did and everyone else has....................................

[BruceSmith 3]

I'm working up a report on the latest developments in the Marla Cooper story, for in the wake of the FBI's silence, Miss M is now the story.

Is she lying? Is she nuts? Is she woelfully mis-informed? Or is she telling the truth?

In the past week I have spoken with Marla's mother, Dewey's widow, Dale Miller - who ran the ministry in Eugene where LD died in 1999, and Arden Dorney, the cop who assisted Marla get her story to the FBI. Plus, I have had a dozen phone calls and emails, and some lengthy chats with Miss M - and some lengthy silences as well.

A couple big dynamics have emerged. One, Miss Marla is letting her Inner Cougar have free run. She has threatened me with a law suit, promises to write about me in her upcoming book (which was supposed to be another threat, I think, but she sounded stunned when I said, Thanks, Marla, I appreciate that.), hung up on me, and announced that she was "done talking to you."

She has also not returned phone calls, or followed through on promises to provide access to principals in the story.

It appears that Miss M is not too happy losing control of her narrative to pesky investigative journalists.

One big problem has emerged for Marla and her family.

If her story is true, then many in the family may have participated in criminal activity because they may have allegedly aided and abetted a felon and they might have covered up the skyjacking for 38 years. And who knows what was said - or not said - when the FBI interviewed them shortly after the skyjacking - so I'm asking.

What started as perhaps a charming mental exercise to solve the DB Cooper case and tell a cute tale about a vanished uncle once upon a time, has now turned profoundly serious.

If Marla's story is true, the ca-ca is about to fly big time. I don't think anyone in the Cooper clan ever reckoned how this story would rock their world.

I should have this inital report up on the Mountain News tomorrow, Monday, in the evening. Until then, Via Con Dios, mi amigos.

[377 22]

Bruce,

Has anyone verified that the FBI actually did question her family?

Why is anything about to hit the fan for her family if Marla's story is true?

Statute of limitations has run and protects everyone but the skyjacker himself. Even without that protection a successful prosecution of a helper or accomplice forty years after would be impossible.

And how did you immunize yourself against the hot blonde fever? Maybe you could share your meds with Curtis Ng.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

And how did you immunize yourself against the hot blonde fever? Maybe you could share your meds with Curtis Ng.

377

Is that a criticism of Ng? You have special info or
just trolling ?

[377 22]

Just joking Georger.

I feel some sympathy for Ng. If Marla is spinning what he said to her he can't just post on the Internet and straighten things out. He had to suffer in silence. Kinda like Carr when Jo burned him. It's no fun to have your professionalism maligned and be constrained from setting the record straight.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.