DB Cooper

[airtwardo 7]

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377: 1.With a larger bag and maybe a brief case loosely tied to your side, jumping from a jet with Coopers chute using a delayed pull at night what would happen to you if you were not an experienced skydiver?2. If you went into a spin then what? 3.In your picture did the bag you jumped with give you any trouble?

Jerry~

The thing is...even IF Cooper had encountered a spin, pulling the ripcord stops it.

It's the basic rule beginner skydivers are taught as they progress into longer & longer freefalls.

If you can NOT stop the spin in free-fall on your own ~PULL!


'Odds are'... if Cooper was freefalling and spinning, if/when he pulled the canopy would open clean.

Also, you can attach quite a bit of stuff in some crazy ways and still fall reasonably stable~
(I'm the incredibly handsome 'larger' specimen on the far right)

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8902;

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8903;
That's a lotta weight & drag...80 some pounds total.



I've done it a BUNCH...and I'm alive...(i think)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904;

So don't put too much into 'he probably didn't survive' the exit, if he got out he could easily get open...if he got open, he probably survived the landing.

In what kind of 'condition' is debatable, but I've jumped the same kind of canopy he did @ almost 100lbs heavier and walked away every time.


FWIW...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BobKnoss 0]

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377: 1.With a larger bag and maybe a brief case loosely tied to your side, jumping from a jet with Coopers chute using a delayed pull at night what would happen to you if you were not an experienced skydiver?2. If you went into a spin then what? 3.In your picture did the bag you jumped with give you any trouble?

Jerry~

The thing is...even IF Cooper had encountered a spin, pulling the ripcord stops it.

It's the basic rule beginner skydivers are taught as they progress into longer & longer freefalls.

If you can stop the spin on your own ~PULL!


'Odds are'... if Cooper was freefalling and spinning, if/when he pulled the canopy would open clean.

Also, you can attach quite a bit of stuff in some crazy ways and still fall reasonably stable~
(I'm the incredibly handsome 'larger' specimen on the far right)

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8902;

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8903;
That's a lotta weight & drag...80 some pounds total.



I've done it a BUNCH...and I'm alive...(i think)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904;

So don't put too much into 'he probably didn't survive' the exit, if he got out he could easily get open...if he got open, he probably survived the landing.

In what kind of 'condition' is debatable, but I've jumped the same kind of canopy he did @ almost 100lbs heavier and walked away every time.


FWIW...

He pulled on the count of 10 Mississippi. He had two pair of thermal underwear on and still froze his ass. Whapped his right leg on the stair railing rebounding, trying to jump off face first, but no serious landing injuries. Warmed up quickly with walking out the clear-cut to the tower where he buried his chute. Jo claimed he landed in tree branches. The rest was confirmed to me by McCoy. But Jerry knows all this, right, JER, old buddy?

[skyjack71 0]

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I think Cooper deployed successfully. Even whuffos have done it from a skyjacked airliner. It is NOT impossible.

After that it's anyone's guess. Death certainly is a possibility.

Seems to me if he died, a body would have turned up.

Lots of publicity, lots of people looking, lots of people hoping to find and keep the loot.

Vultures are natural corpse location drones. I've been amazed at how they seem to find every large mammal carcass eventually. If I were searching long enough after the jump for decay to start working on the jumpers body, I'd be looking for vulture flocking.

377

Just mosing along and listening to YOU guys. Of course, I did NOT take that survey, but all of you know what I would have said. I know Cooper survived - and if not an accomplice buried him six feet under...perhaps along with the chute. If there was a homing device in Cooper's briefcase or inside of a special homemade belt around his middle - Cooper's destination was known...to an accomplice if indeed there was one.

Not one of you have addressed the fact that Cooper's build was expressed as "compact". Have any of you even thought about what that meant? Muscular or unusual type of build or something else?

Now did I make that up or is in the actual accountings given by the witnesses to writers?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

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Not one of you have addressed the fact that Cooper's build was expressed as "compact". Have any of you even thought about what that meant? Muscular or unusual type of build or something else?

I remember him as limber, not muscular. Slender, but not skinny. Average build for the day. We were all about the same kind of build. McCoy and Bill were in better physical shape, though. "Compact"... good condition, athletic, tough. Not overweight, 'lean meat'.

[skyjack71 0]

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The thing is...even IF Cooper had encountered a spin, pulling the ripcord stops it.

It's the basic rule beginner skydivers are taught as they progress into longer & longer freefalls.

If you can NOT stop the spin in free-fall on your own ~PULL!


'Odds are'... if Cooper was freefalling and spinning, if/when he pulled the canopy would open clean.

Also, you can attach quite a bit of stuff in some crazy ways and still fall reasonably stable~
(I'm the incredibly handsome 'larger' specimen on the far right)

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8902;

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8903;
That's a lotta weight & drag...80 some pounds total.



I've done it a BUNCH...and I'm alive...(i think)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904;

So don't put too much into 'he probably didn't survive' the exit, if he got out he could easily get open...if he got open, he probably survived the landing.

In what kind of 'condition' is debatable, but I've jumped the same kind of canopy he did @ almost 100lbs heavier and walked away every time.


FWIW...

All I can say is WOW - but, who is the runt in the pic? That guy looks awfully familiar to me - perhaps because he looks like my brother looked when he was in his 40's. Be interested to know the history on you guys and who you really are. The guy on the left was incredibly handsome. Old, but NOT blind or dead yet.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Artwardo: Your equipment was attached properly. and in front of you. The way Coopers equipment was attached was to the side and secured at the top of the bag, The bag was just hanging there. I too have jumped with equipment attached and secured properly.Coopers was not. 377 and I have discussed the scenario I am refering too. and the results. I just wanted him to explain what kind of difficulties certain conditions would present. By the way your not just ugly. Id call it Damned ugly

[Robert99 50]

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377: 1.With a larger bag and maybe a brief case loosely tied to your side, jumping from a jet with Coopers chute using a delayed pull at night what would happen to you if you were not an experienced skydiver?2. If you went into a spin then what? 3.In your picture did the bag you jumped with give you any trouble?

Jerry~

The thing is...even IF Cooper had encountered a spin, pulling the ripcord stops it.

It's the basic rule beginner skydivers are taught as they progress into longer & longer freefalls.

If you can NOT stop the spin in free-fall on your own ~PULL!


'Odds are'... if Cooper was freefalling and spinning, if/when he pulled the canopy would open clean.

Also, you can attach quite a bit of stuff in some crazy ways and still fall reasonably stable~
(I'm the incredibly handsome 'larger' specimen on the far right)

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8902;

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8903;
That's a lotta weight & drag...80 some pounds total.



I've done it a BUNCH...and I'm alive...(i think)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904;

So don't put too much into 'he probably didn't survive' the exit, if he got out he could easily get open...if he got open, he probably survived the landing.

In what kind of 'condition' is debatable, but I've jumped the same kind of canopy he did @ almost 100lbs heavier and walked away every time.


FWIW...

FWIW, a year or two back one of the cable TV channels had a multi-hour program on students going through the military's HALO parachute program at Yuma, AZ (if I remember correctly).

All the students were experienced paratroopers. After a number of HALO jumps, the students put on belly cargo packs and then did another HALO jump on a beautiful, not a cloud in the sky, day.

Most of the students wobbled about a bit at first but within a few seconds were reasonably under control. Unfortunately, one student had some serious problems.

A camerman and an instructor were along side the student so the incident was well documented. In trying to help the student, the instructor nearly got kicked in the head several times and finally had to give up and move away from the student. The student never did get things under control but did eventually open his chute and landed okay.

The student was booted out of the course after that jump.

But there is no way Cooper could have stabilized in a free fall after leaving the aircraft. He had considerably less than a minute to pull the ripcord or crater.

If he had opened the chute, what are the chances of him landing in a tree? If he had landed in a tree the chances are pretty good that he wouldn't want to stay around to get the canopy out of the tree. He simply didn't have the time to spare.

If he didn't open the chute, his impact area on the ground would be rather small. Are vultures flying around the Portland/Vancouver area in rainy and cold weather? I doubt it. And the vultures are only reliable indicators if the searchers are in the correct general area to begin with.

[377 22]

Very suspicious Airtwardo. Matches Janet's sighting pretty closely.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904;

You got an alibi?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Damn ol’ Vlad Frolov was one RCH from being legend, what a bummer. Of course in spite of all the aerodynamic expertise, weather watchers, sniffing dogs and helicopter searches some goober on a Deere had to blunder on the guy less than a mile from the airstrip and poke him with a stick.

http://www.pe.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20101201-remains-of-skydiver-found-in-perris-field.ece

This story was straight out of the ‘DB Cooper Jr. starter kit’ for amateur guessers. He wasn’t missed by fellow jumpers since he travelled alone. I guess this makes one invisible too.

Then his rental car sat in the customer saturated parking lot of the airport for five days. I’ve done similar things to avoid the gas purchase surcharge.

How many things had to fail this guy? Primary, reserve, AAD, fellow jumpers and pilot, airport security, Avis Car Rental, Immigration, the Hampton Inn and Aeroflot before a co-worker called asking about any extra dead guys? Geesh, anywhere I go and it’s seconds until someone wants to help me or know what I’m doing there.

Shame for 'Vanishing Vlad' who was part of KGB special ops and had known contacts at the Bun Boy in Baker where the exchange of iridium would take place between a fellow disenfranchised spy who wanted to secretly continue the Cold War near the World’s Tallest Thermometer. There could have been a thread where bat shit crazies could make stuff up and speak with faux authority and sell books and movies and……. whew, caught myself just in time. Too weird, I know.

[377 22]

Lazy Perris Buzzards. They obviously get too many handouts and second hand DZ smoke.

Elsinore or Taft birds would have had Vlad picked to the bone in no time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

I, Jo Weber has never stated how Cooper landed or if he landed in a tree or not. Jo Weber, myself and I was NOT there and Duane L. Weber did NOT tell her which is ME anything about a landing in a jump.

The only thing he said was when I asked him how he hurt his leg as I was putting on his long johns to take him to the hospital. His statement was "I got it jumping out of a plane". Thank heavens I was already on the floor or I would have been on the floor laughing if he had been well. I only replied to him "You jump out of plane - gimme a break". Of course he would tell me 2 wks later after ceasing diaylsis "I'm Dan Coooper"...and then 11 days later he died. In my stress & grief, I did not connect the two statements.

Guys this is what I mean when I state something - someone else twists and turns it. This is an example of why I have not allowed someone to write the story about Duane Weber and Dan Cooper...plus who wants to join the wanna-bees. I will continue searching for truths, but the clock is running out.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Guru312 0]

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But there is no way Cooper could have stabilized in a free fall after leaving the aircraft.

I don't see any jump numbers or time in our sport associated with your user name. I'm leaning toward writing that you don't know what you are talking about. But...I'm willing to read your explanation for such a totally nonsensical statement.

Could you provide a source or some sort of explanation for the above statement?

I'm beginning to wonder if you have a clue what activity DropZone.com is all about.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[airtwardo 7]

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Artwardo: Your equipment was attached properly. and in front of you. The way Coopers equipment was attached was to the side and secured at the top of the bag, The bag was just hanging there. I too have jumped with equipment attached and secured properly.Coopers was not. 377 and I have discussed the scenario I am referring too. and the results. I just wanted him to explain what kind of difficulties certain conditions would present. By the way your not just ugly. Id call it Damned ugly

I understand what you're saying Jerry...however I too jump with 'flag-bag' arrangements that are not nearly as secure as the pyro in the pic, and yes they are off to the left side.

Yes they cause a spin 'if' it's not compensated for, but not so much of a spin that even if 'left alone' would impair the operation of the parachute.

I'm hunting for a pic, it's about the size & weight we're discussing regrading money bags.

I seriously don't think the attached bag would cause a no-pull situation...the loot may very well have separated upon opening, but I've always held that belief.

Again...probably why none ever went back through the treasury.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 7]

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Very suspicious Airtwardo. Matches Janet's sighting pretty closely.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904;

You got an alibi?

377

My freshman high school home-room teacher!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[1969912 0]

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8902;

What are those things on your chests? Electric pyro controls maybe?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[DangerousDan 0]

I seriously don't think the attached bag would cause a no-pull situation...the loot may very well have separated upon opening, but I've always held that belief. Again...probably why none ever went back through the treasury.

See...all this productive discussion generated because of a poll. Maybe the purpose of the poll wasnt to "prove" anything. Did it make you think outside the box? There is enough talent and knowledge located on this forum to solve this mystery. There is some real talent on here. This is the closest youve been so far. Conclusions: 1) the hijacker was concerned and conscious about his identity and took measures to conceal it. His last name was not Cooper. 2) He donned the correct rig with ease. 3) He exited with the money. 4) Regardless when he pulled, he pulled and got a good canopy. 5) The earth was below. 6) He landed 7) regardless what he did with his rig, he made it back to civilization 8) There is no body out there to find. If you are an experienced skydiver and have an alternate theory, I would like to hear it. Thank you.

[DangerousDan 0]

Anybody wanna jump this?

[georger 244]

FWIW...

He pulled on the count of 10 Mississippi.

Nope! It was 1-potata, 2-potata,

He jumped on 7-potata more.

[Guru312 0]

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What are those things on your chests? Electric pyro controls maybe?

I'm wondering also.

I owned a pyrotechnic business years ago and made a few jumps with smoke and other generators but nothing as fancy and high tech as what 'twardo is wearing. I see a light on the helmets which seems to be pointing toward the "controls" on your chest.

Could you gives us a few words about all the stuff we can see in that picture? Explain it to us, if you don't mind. I'm both impressed and curious.

What is all that stuff?

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[377 22]

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Anybody wanna jump this?

Yes!!!

I love DC 3s and yours is a real beauty Dan.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

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But there is no way Cooper could have stabilized in a free fall after leaving the aircraft.

I don't see any jump numbers or time in our sport associated with your user name. I'm leaning toward writing that you don't know what you are talking about. But...I'm willing to read your explanation for such a totally nonsensical statement.

Could you provide a source or some sort of explanation for the above statement?

I'm beginning to wonder if you have a clue what activity DropZone.com is all about.

Guru312, You are on.

First, we need to discuss the weather and other conditions under which Cooper jumped, fell, or was thrown from the airliner.

It was a dark and stormy night. The airliner was flying at 10,000 feet above sea level. There was an overcast, which is defined as 90 per cent sky cover, at 5,000 feet above sea level.

In addition, there was a broken cloud layer, which is defined as 60 to 90 percent sky cover, at 3500 feet above sea level. In addition, there were scattered clouds below 3500 feet. Light rain showers were also in the Portland area at that time.

From 10,000 feet, Cooper could not see the ground or any horizontal reference points and he would not have any directional reference points unless he could spot the North Star, or some such thing, as he was tumbling.

The human brain must process the clues concerning the above reference points in order to provide inputs to Cooper's hands, feet, and anything else he had to use in stabilizing himself. No clues to the brain means no meaningful inputs to the hands and feet.

Therefore, there was no way on God's Green Earth that Cooper, even if he was an experienced jumper, could have stabilized himself until he got below the 3500 foot cloud layer and probably not even then.

If Cooper jumped in the general area originally claimed, he would not have had very much, if any, ground clearance or ground references after getting below 3500 feet.

I look forward to your comments on how the above is "totally nonsensical". And don't give me any stories like "a skydiver doesn't even need a parachute after six beers". Please stick to facts.

You state, "I'm beginning to wonder if you have a clue what activity DropZone.com is all about". I had assumed that DZ.com was about skydiving and this thread was about the Cooper hijacking. Do you agree?

[airtwardo 7]

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Anybody wanna jump this?

YUP!


@2;10 in and more at the end...three 3's in formation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLouO_bIL78&feature=related

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[DangerousDan 0]

YUP!


@2;10 in and more at the end...three 3's in formation!

3 is nice, summer of 2010 I organized 30 DC-3's, I flew as lead ship of the mass arrival into OSH. Tons of you tube video on it and some cool air to air footage. It was like an in flight ocean of DC-3's flying off me. Also, the man jumped and got a good canopy. It worked. He lived. Thank you. Dan Gryder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyG4Zr0qsQ

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyG4Zr0qsQ

[DangerousDan 0]

Or this[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sV1CzvZHlM

The point is, the rig this Hijacker selected was an Emergency rig. He had an emergency. He needed to exit with the cash. The harness, container, and canopy were designed to be used under the worst of conditions to save a life. Stable or not, turning spinning, even on your back, it aint gonna be pretty, but its gonna work. It was the strongest canopy, with the least drive, and nicest ride. His name wasnt Cooper, and his body aint out there.

[airtwardo 7]

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What are those things on your chests? Electric pyro controls maybe?

I'm wondering also.

I owned a pyrotechnic business years ago and made a few jumps with smoke and other generators but nothing as fancy and high tech as what 'twardo is wearing. I see a light on the helmets which seems to be pointing toward the "controls" on your chest.

Could you gives us a few words about all the stuff we can see in that picture? Explain it to us, if you don't mind. I'm both impressed and curious.

What is all that stuff?

KaBoom!

That's geared up for a night pyro show with both free-fall & canopy pyro.

The smaller leg stuff is magnesium naval flares, the larger tubes hold 30 second fountains...that only burn 8-10 seconds in free-fall @150 mph.

I'm a 325 pound meat bomb geared up so yeah 150mph.

The control panel sets everything off electrically, you can see (kinda) the safety pin in the side blocking ignition...it's pulled as you exit.

A magnesium flare is set off first, we then do a 4way.
Once that's established you fire the 1st fountain, turn & track...bomb-burst style, firing each consecutive fountain every 8 seconds until they're expended.

At about 3000', open the canopy and set off another magnesium flare, don't wanna run into each other...that helps.
Then open the belly wart and drop down three 4" fountians that are attached to sections of log-chain...they burn right through steel cable.

Once all of those are fired & burning (also electrically) spin the canopy as in the pic.

The last foot flare is fired at about 3-400'...they are bright enough to let ya see the landing area pretty well, considering the night blindness from all the other stuff.

Been doing variations of that show for over 25 years...


Here's a funny story to go along with my quick description~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4236778#4236778

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~