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Amazon 7
my point - any experienced jumper of that era would have no trouble with the reserve container sized bundle, IF, it was properly affixed and still intact after the exit.
Matt
FWIW - I interviewed a B-17 Commander from WWII a few years ago. His plane took a hit and became uncontrollable. He had never jumped and was given minimal training regarding a jump other than "get out the door, any door, and pull this thing..." He says he has no idea how fast the B-17 was going when he left it, but it was missing part of a wing and was pretty nose down and there was no one at the controls. He said had no concept of anything regarding parachuting, that was his one and only jump ever. He thinks he pulled immidiately out the door and has no idea his body position relative to earth, but even in 1944 he got a good canopy at a very high exit speed and rode it all the way to where he landed in a tree and cut himself out, only to be captured and spend months in a Russian prison camp eating pigeon leftovers to stay alive. A reserve is designed to work. Speed, body position, whtever. Pull. It works. Now find me an experienced jumper that says that the 727 suspect was a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal. off the very stable stairway of a 727 and that the guy was DOI and let him have his say. Thank you. Dan Gryder
There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.
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quade 4
There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.
But DB Cooper wasn't wearing a bail out rig. He was wearing a rig for sport jumping. Do we know, for instance, if the parachute in question had a free bag or if it had been modified? Modify the parachute and it is no longer the same item with the same reliability of opening.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
quade 4
McCoy had a full suit with a small sport chute on the shoulders.
You realize this makes no sense; right?
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
EVickiW 0
Yeah but those guys had training on what to do if they needed to eject. We have no clue what Cooper's jump background was.
Yes, we do but you refuse to accept it. Weber was trained by Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. and Bill. One in the air and the other spotting. Training was by EXPERTS over a whole summer of weekend jumps. The guy who flew the plane was Lindstrom at Flying Cloud Airport in Savage, MN. He had a pilot's training school on the east edge of the airport on hwy 169 and offered jumps as a sideline. Everyone signed the logbook every time with their real names. They repacked the chutes on my lawn, and I often watched as we talked.
Last time I drove by Flying Cloud Airport it was in Eden Prairie, MN
http://www.edenprairie.org/vCurrent/live/article.asp?r=2915
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
BobKnoss 0
Back in the day it was called the Shakopee airport. The highway turns west there and goes down into the river valley, across the river and into SHAKOPEE. The river used to flood every spring and cover the bridge by 20 feet or more. Savage is NE of Shakopee. I make that mistake often. Savage is the home of Dan Patch, who was Dan Cooper's brother, I think.
georger 247
There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.
But DB Cooper wasn't wearing a bail out rig. He was wearing a rig for sport jumping. Do we know, for instance, if the parachute in question had a free bag or if it had been modified? Modify the parachute and it is no longer the same item with the same reliability of opening.
Just an aside: this has become a very intreresting
captivating series of posts - had you not taken thje
bull by the horns last night I wonder if this would
even be happening. So thanks, This is good stuff!
BobKnoss 0
I posted a picture of the suit he wore. Blue, tight at the ankles, looked like a tight fitting one piece mechanics uniform with a little hump on the back at the shoulders. It was a custom made sport jumping suit. POst was a long time ago.
There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.
Bailout rigs were good - They were credited with a lot of saves. "Reserves" are even better. As pointed out, reserves are built and packed to higher standards. I let my kids pack my main (under supervision) but my rigger packs my reserves. If you can muster the coordination to pull the little silver handle just a little bit, the container is going to open, and the pilot chute is going to launch.
So...
thousands did it in the war from any airplane in any configuration, on fire and going who knows how fast. Then you have the Cooper copycats that also seemed to have no problem pulling the handle at the appropriate time. But your local hero, Cooper, the FBI is sure this ONE GUY boarded the plane with intent to jump but died on impact because he was a was a no pull/couldnt pull/never pulled/failed to pull/opposed to pulling/afraid to pull/politically opposed to pulling/suffered from a dysfunction couldnt get it out no pull?!?! Really?!?!?! I am still waiting for the experienced skydiver to make a post and state that they hold this opinion, that the body and unopened rig are still laying out there today exactly where they hit. I was told that my poll was woefully flawed. But so far I dont find anyone that is willing to publicly exert an opinion that claims that they believe that this was in fact the case. See attached image of Q5.
377
I think it was Quade said 'in a spin reserve is
designed to open, backpack would not.'
According to Cossey, Cooper had only a functional
backpack.
I told you guys he put the reserve on the back!!!!
The "X" pack was packed by Bill and sewn shut to insure no tampering.
BELIEVE IT! There apparently was a good reason.
That does not make sense, is it even possible? He wore a NB-6 that rig has no way of being rigged like that. Bob, do you have proof of any thing here?
Matt
So, start being safe, first!!!
Farflung 0
My neighbor who got shot down ended up in Stalag 17B, here’s his story (last mission bottom):
http://www.303rdbg.com/358stewart.html
So this indicates a few things: the three that jumped all survived, there were prison camps which were numbered to at least 17 and had to be subdivided into sections. In the realm of many versus few, this indicates many USAAF personnel were held prisoner (thousands) and they were likely delivered via mechanical failure or shoot down with the majority probably having a jump under their belt. I know, wicked scientific of me.
Here’s a publication on Stalag 17B:
http://www.valerosos.com/AMERICANPRISONERSOFWAR.pdf
Of course I had to ask him about torture at the hands of the Hun and he said that was all Hollywood stuff. He said they knew the Germans were losing the war at that point and were probably running out of most everything. He said that someone had crafted a map and it hung on some wall and another guy built a receiver to listen to BBC or whatever broadcasts and plot them on the map. The guards let them keep it up since it was nonsense and nothing but American propaganda. He went on to say that around January of ’45 the commandant began to make semi-regular visits to that barracks for an update on the American Army’s progress. Apparently this was a massive morale boost as well. Hard to believe this guy never said a word about this experience, truly one of the ‘Greatest Generation’.
You’re the ‘Stats Queen‘Orange1, so you tell us what the survival rate appears to be… 50, 65, 94.3456%?
EVickiW 0
Shakopee, not Savage, my BOoBOo..On the edge of a very tall river bank with tons of beautiful jumping area. Yeah, it is in Eden Prarrie now.
Back in the day it was called the Shakopee airport. The highway turns west there and goes down into the river valley, across the river and into SHAKOPEE. The river used to flood every spring and cover the bridge by 20 feet or more. Savage is NE of Shakopee. I make that mistake often. Savage is the home of Dan Patch, who was Dan Cooper's brother, I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ai5pu2ZDNA
Wrong....the correct answer is ........... EDEN PRAIRIE.
According to the history archives, the airport was named Flying Cloud Airport in 1945. In addition, the airport was always located in Eden Prairie. Shakopee is south of the river. http://www.edenprairie.org/vCurrent/live/article.asp?r=1549:
By the fall of 1945, the sixty acre field was newly graded and seeded and had two new wooden hangers and an administration building. John Stuber, the airfield manager, gave the airport its name – Flying Cloud. Originally, the airport was going to be called Southwest Minneapolis Airport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
The aircraft was doing about 225 MPH at the time Cooper separated from it. So he was actually ABOVE his natural terminal velocity at that time.
A knot equals what in miles?
l.5 miles. The plane was traveling just above stall speed.
I am just a dumb broad, but others can jump from planes going faster than the 727, then Cooper succeeded in jumping Nov. 24, 1971 and he landed and he lived. Have you read ANYTHING about the other successful skyjackings?
I have to agree with statements by professional jumpers on this thread - you sound like a whuffo and I am not saying that as NICELY as the others did.
quade 4
A knot equals what in miles?
1 nautical mile is approximately 1.15 statute miles.
225 MPH is approximately 195.5 knots (a damned FAST exit speed for skydivers).
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
georger 247
thousands did it in the war from any airplane in any configuration, on fire and going who knows how fast. Then you have the Cooper copycats that also seemed to have no problem pulling the handle at the appropriate time. But your local hero, Cooper, the FBI is sure this ONE GUY boarded the plane with intent to jump but died on impact because he was a was a no pull/couldnt pull/never pulled/failed to pull/opposed to pulling/afraid to pull/politically opposed to pulling/suffered from a dysfunction couldnt get it out no pull?!?! Really?!?!?! I am still waiting for the experienced skydiver to make a post and state that they hold this opinion, that the body and unopened rig are still laying out there today exactly where they hit. I was told that my poll was woefully flawed. But so far I dont find anyone that is willing to publicly exert an opinion that claims that they believe that this was in fact the case. See attached image of Q5.
Yours above is the reason I brought up "IQ" last
evening. The assumption being: anyone with
an average IQ or even below, could schlep their
way through, wore clothes of his choice and knew
he was wearing clothes of that nature still intent
on the jump (at that time of year etc). He knew
where Tacoma was, ordered 15* flaps, and didnt
realise the weather and his clothes? There has to
be a better explanation than "novice/idiot".
Amazon 7
There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.
But DB Cooper wasn't wearing a bail out rig. He was wearing a rig for sport jumping. Do we know, for instance, if the parachute in question had a free bag or if it had been modified? Modify the parachute and it is no longer the same item with the same reliability of opening.
I have a rig just like it.. wanna try it out???
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