DB Cooper

[Robert99 50]

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Georger wrote

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Bohan's report never happened and is a lie

His report has always puzzled me.

377

It should. There is no data to even suggest a wind of 80 knots from the southeast at 14,000 feet that night.

All available data indicates that the wind from the ground to 10,000 feet was from a south to southwesterly direction. At 10,000 feet it was from the southwest at no more than 30 knots.

While I respect your Mensa card, I want to see a
report?

Why would H include this in his book? Just to
titilate the world?

So, you are saying No Turbulence period. Is this
what you are saying?

Im not arguing. I have no opinion! Just wanna know!

Lacking any report, can you share youre reasoning
process - ?

Georger,

First, what is the source for your statement about a Mensa card? Did the source mention a more esoteric organization than Mensa? Just asking.

Ralph H. apparently met Captain Bohan just a few months before H.'s retirement and before the money was found at Tina Bar.

H. discusses Bohan on pages 111 thru 115 of his book. Following are some statements Bohan made:

1. Bohan stated that he had been the next flight into Portland behind Flight 305, that he had been listening to all of 305's communications with Minneapolis and Portland, that his jet was four minutes behind and 4000 feet above Flight 305.

COMMENTS: The phrase "next flight into Portland behind 305" is not correct since 305 did not go into Portland. In all probability, Bohan's aircraft did not have enough radio transreceivers to monitor all of 305's communications as well as maintain his own communications with air traffic control. The "four minutes behind" phrase presumably means that Bohan took off from Seattle four minutes after 305. If so, Bohan's aircraft would have overtaken 305 in short order and probably been on the ground in Portland before 305 passed through the area.

2. Bohan stated "that was one of the worst storm fronts I've encountered in 24 years of flying. I had 80 knots of wind, from 166 degrees, right on my nose".

COMMENTS: In reality, Bohan was probably not even on V-23 between Seattle and Portland that evening. He was probably on V-23E with the inbound radial to the PDX (now BTG) VORTAC being 165 degrees.

3. Bohan stated that he landed to the east in Portland, on runway 10, with a strong crosswind that was "near my fudge factor".

COMMENTS: Commercial airliners are routinely certificated for crosswinds of about 25 or 30 Knots. The ground winds that evening at the Portland airport were only about 10 MPH from the south-southwest. Bohan should not have had a problem of any kind with the crosswind at Portland that evening. At the age of 16, I could and did make full-stall (three point) landings in Piper Cubs with a 10 MPH crosswind. If the crosswind were significantly greater than that, I could and did make one-wheel landings without a problem.

The sea level pressure in Seattle that evening was above normal and it increased toward the south. Increasing pressure is an indication of improving weather and a stable air mass. In the ground radio transcripts in Seattle is a discussion of the weather between Seattle and Reno. The flight was informed that there was no significant weather but that there was a haze layer at 10,000 a number of miles south of Portland which could (and in fact did) produce some light airframe icing. In addition, a haze layer is another indication of a stable air mass.

To summarize, there was no storm front between Seattle and Portland, there was no storm in the Portland area, and the highest winds at 10,000 feet were less than 30 knots and from the southwest. There is no support of any kind for a wind of 80 knots at 14,000 feet that evening. The ground winds at Portland were of the order of 10 MPH from the south to southwest throughout the evening. There were clouds and light rain showers in the Portland area but they did not pose a problem to the hijacked airliner or Bohan's aircraft either. To make a long story short, the whole weather encountered between Seattle and Reno was nothing of any particular significance. It was just another night at the office.

The above weather statements are supported by FAA weather data, FBI data presented on this thread, weatherunderground.com historical data, and other sources.

To answer another of your questions, I am not saying that there was no turbulence. However, I do not remember anything in the transcripts that even mentioned inflight turbulence.

[georger 244]

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Anyone knows you dont stand behind
a jet engine!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT1yvqcDZZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1_Cx_gF6ds&feature=related

http://videosift.com/video/Jet-engines-are-great-for-human-projectiles

great vids!

[georger 244]

At least Georger and 377 continue to treat me in a civil matter and my replies will be condensed to answer the inflammatory questions by only making replies to them.

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[georger 244]

Georger,

First, what is the source for your statement about a Mensa card? Did the source mention a more esoteric organization than Mensa? Just asking.
.

I thought it was you who brought Mensa up?
I thought it was funny whoever did. I just threw Mensa in, seemed appropriate at the time?

[georger 244]

To answer another of your questions, I am not saying that there was no turbulence. However, I do not remember anything in the transcripts that even mentioned inflight turbulence.

[Robert99 50]

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Georger,

First, what is the source for your statement about a Mensa card? Did the source mention a more esoteric organization than Mensa? Just asking.
.

I thought it was you who brought Mensa up?
I thought it was funny whoever did. I just threw Mensa in, seemed appropriate at the time?


I think it was Guru312 who mentioned Mensa in a post to Jerry Thomas. There was something about rubbing his Mensa card to help understand what Jerry wrote. Basically, I would like to know how that works, if it does.

My understanding of the situation is that with a Mensa membership card and a ten dollar bill, you can usually be assured of getting a hamburger at McDonalds. I hadn't heard of a secondary use for them.

[georger 244]

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Georger,

First, what is the source for your statement about a Mensa card? Did the source mention a more esoteric organization than Mensa? Just asking.
.

I thought it was you who brought Mensa up?
I thought it was funny whoever did. I just threw Mensa in, seemed appropriate at the time?

I think it was Guru312 who mentioned Mensa in a post to Jerry Thomas. There was something about rubbing his Mensa card to help understand what Jerry wrote. Basically, I would like to know how that works, if it does.

My understanding of the situation is that with a Mensa membership card and a ten dollar bill, you can usually be assured of getting a hamburger at McDonalds. I hadn't heard of a secondary use for them.

If having the card gives senior discounts I want a
card!

[Robert99 50]

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To answer another of your questions, I am not saying that there was no turbulence. However, I do not remember anything in the transcripts that even mentioned inflight turbulence.

I thought there was ref to turbulence in H's book?

I agree there is nothing (obvious) about turbulence
in the transcripts.

I just find it wierd that there is not ample
testimony-documentation about the wv condx, from
many perspectives, right in the FBi files. Apparently
Tom & Carol found nothing. I mean with the whole
hero angle from thepress you would think somebody
would pause to ask and publish: "he bailed into
hellish weather" or "he bailed into turbulence" or
"he bailed into a pleasant but foggy evening at the
beach" ? There is more attention given to his shoes
than the weather!

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: At the symposim there was another FBI agent that was also in the air in a helicopter. Then there was Frank Hail one of the helicopter pilots also was there, Both them discribed the weather the same way Ralph and Bohan did. Now we have 2 FBI agents and 2 Pilots describing the weather as bad,And they were there.Jerry

[matthewcline 0]

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Jerry always has to get the last word in - but, he won't get the last word on this. He has called me a liar, yet how many time has he been publically denouced for his lies. How many stories have been told about Jerry and can anyone actual list his credits, military and educational.

Anyone who was actually a respected military retiree would NOT continually attack someone with beliefs that are different from his. Jerry forgets that I live in a community of 5 military bases....his actions and BRAGGART position are NOT viewed well by others.

Jerry is being asked to post his educational levels (IQ & Universities - seems he has bragged about a very high collegiate university in his past).
He is also requested to post all of the service ranks and
testing scores and provable Military Credentials.

It is my opionion he needs to produce Proof of his credientials and stop calling Jo a liar.

Jo, Why don't you set an example by posting your qualifications, your IQ (including your Mensa membership number if applicable), certificates, academic degrees, your annual salary (since you have never had a service rank), all test scores on any and every subject, and any proveable credentials.

Your entire second paragraph above is laughable. Did you acquire this information by osmosis?

Finally, what is there in your background that you feel qualifies you to evaluate the credentials of Jerry or anyone else on any subject?

You miss the point:
I do NOT want to evaluate his Credentials - I want to prove he has lied and that there is NO reason for him to continually keep calling me a liar..

So you can say what? "It takes one, to know one"

In all your "evidence" i see nothing that warrants any one to think D.L. Weber, two bit hood and failed crook and con man, is D.B. Cooper or an accomplice.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[georger 244]

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Robert99: At the symposim there was another FBI agent that was also in the air in a helicopter. Then there was Frank Hail one of the helicopter pilots also was there, Both them discribed the weather the same way Ralph and Bohan did. Now we have 2 FBI agents and 2 Pilots describing the weather as bad,And they were there.Jerry

Jerry be as specific as you can about this - please!

[JerryThomas 0]

All described the weather as stormy,with few breaks. No real specifics . Just rough weather to fly in. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: I repeat> 2 pilots > 2 FBI agents that were in the air that night described the weather as stormy. We are talking eye witnesses here. I've talked to them personally. When I told them that there were those who doubted the weather was as they discribed ,there comments were "I was there , they were not. I choose to believe the pilots and the agents that were actually there! wouldn't you. Jerry

[Robert99 50]

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Robert99: I repeat> 2 pilots > 2 FBI agents that were in the air that night described the weather as stormy. We are talking eye witnesses here. I've talked to them personally. When I told them that there were those who doubted the weather was as they discribed ,there comments were "I was there , they were not. I choose to believe the pilots and the agents that were actually there! wouldn't you. Jerry

Jerry, I understand your statements. It was quite cloudy in Portland, the visibility at the airport was about 10 statute miles, there were light rain showers in the area. The temperature was in the 40s all day long. Everything adds up to a relatively miserable day for people who were outside in the weather. The aircraft in and out of the Portland area were definitely having to fly on instruments.

Nevertheless, the above does not add up to stormy weather. The airline pilots should not have had a problem with it. They fly IFR enough to maintain a high instrument proficiency. The military helicopters pilots and National Guard pilots probably had a somewhat lower IFR proficiency and would describe the weather as being worse.

The end result is we are comparing subjective data with quantative data.

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: I believe your right.However, Weather in that area changes rapidly. A few people at the symposim made comments on how often the weather was changing while they were there.One of the FBI agents discribed the search area as being wooded and rough not farm land like Tom Kaye discribed and further east than discribed. Point is eye witness reports does not match the records that are being used today. Jerry

[smokin99 0]

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Leave it to the Brits to produce a low-budget, black-and-white film that does the best job with the Dickens story.

I can't decide which is my favorite between Alastair Sims version and George C. Scott's. I always watch both. But there is no doubt that Jim Carrey is the best grinch there ever was. Add in It's a Wonderful Life and Christmas Story and you've pretty much got the grand slam of Christmas movies.

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4) I skipped the symposium because I knew Marla was coming. While some of you were swallowing that pap with a big wooden spoon, I was having beers and discussing the case with the locals. If there is another symposium, I would like to attend, but the Speaker List must be screened a bit better

There you go again.....If I remember correctly, you said you weren't going before Marla was even named as an attendee, but it's Christmas so I'm gonna leave the ole forum search function alone and let you slide on this one.
Even if so....why dis the symposium?...from what I gather everyone seemed to enjoy it plus it was free if I'm not mistaken. It probably took someone's effort and money to organize a function like that so give em their due.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Orange1 0]

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*** There you go again.....If I remember correctly, you said you weren't going before Marla was even named as an attendee, but it's Christmas so I'm gonna leave the ole forum search function alone and let you slide on this one.
Even if so....why dis the symposium?...from what I gather everyone seemed to enjoy it plus it was free if I'm not mistaken. It probably took someone's effort and money to organize a function like that so give em their due.

Yeah I recall that too. Not sure whether it is fox and grapes or just because post-event justification sounds better.

It's Christmas, so do I not ask why we are subjected to all sorts of stuff about Blevins and AB that have nothing to do with Cooper? Hmmm... I'll mull that one over.

In the meantime, wishing all of you (yes all of you, even the ones that I harangue occasionally) who celebrate Christmas, a peaceful and blessed one.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[pek771 0]

If one looks at the first video closely, the old Ford truck being blow into the body of water is stripped down, has no engine, driver, etc. It has a large surface area to mass distribution. It looks good though.

I don't believe the exhaust from a 727 would come into play regarding someone alighting from the back stairs. I have walked behind running jet engines at various throttle settings and have lived to tell about it. I can tell you they are hot and smelly.

BTW, what sort of rig does Santa carry in the sled?

[smokin99 0]

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If one looks at the first video closely, the old Ford truck being blow into the body of water is stripped down, has no engine, driver, etc. It has a large surface area to mass distribution. It looks good though.

I don't believe the exhaust from a 727 would come into play regarding someone alighting from the back stairs. I have walked behind running jet engines at various throttle settings and have lived to tell about it. I can tell you they are hot and smelly.

BTW, what sort of rig does Santa carry in the sled?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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In the meantime, wishing all of you (yes all of you, even the ones that I harangue occasionally) who celebrate Christmas, a peaceful and blessed one.

+1
Whatever the season means to you, I hope it is filled with lots of love, laughter, happiness, and hunkYness.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[ClassClown 0]

......................I'D LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME TO WISH EVERYONE HERE AT DZ A MERRY CHRISTMAS.................................

[Farflung 0]

I hope it isn’t too late St. Nick.

Every time you hear a cowbell, a monkey gets his wings.

http://youtu.be/nRejkjJUHYI

[BobKnoss 0]

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It was light, misty rain all day, off and on...hardly any wind at ground level at all. Typical November weather for the Pacific Northwest. The best way to describe it is as a 'really quiet' day. I ask that people stop trying to invent The Storm That Never Was.

While following the 727 in a helicopter, McCoy described the rain as a 'white-out' when they shot the flares that Janet saw. They COULD see without the flares, but not much. They never saw Duane's chute.

Hey! Terry Thomas.... Who's this guy?? Look familiar? Not Frank... Dumb-de-dumb-dumb. The plot thickens. Holy Smokin' Gunns there, Guadalupe, it's the Little Dude hisself! Guess he didn't get shot, huh?
And Henry Selick his stand-in.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Hey! Terry Thomas.... Who's this guy?? Look familiar? Not Frank... Dumb-de-dumb-dumb. The plot thickens. Holy Smokin' Gunns there, Guadalupe, it's the Little Dude hisself! Guess he didn't get shot, huh?
And Henry Selick his stand-in actor.

[http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&cp=8&gs_id=10&xhr=t&q=henry+selick&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=810&bih=492&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=BzP2TruRMcTwggeQ7biAAg]

MERRY CHRISTMAS MAC! Thanks for the pictures.

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[georger 244]

MERRY CHRISTMAS MAC! Thanks for the pictures.