DB Cooper

[warosebud 0]

No, I'll get it.
rosebud

[mrshutter45 21]

I would like to think he made it but the evidence is weak, If I would have made this jump and wanted to prove to the FBI that I indeed would have made the jump I would have sent the dummy chute back to them instead of the letters sent after the Hijacking if he even sent them? most of these cases show strong circumstantial evidence such as KC's large unexplained amounts of money! but none that come forward give any key information such as the LZ or where the parachute and briefcase went? nothing is ever proven except a good story.

How hard or easy would it be in 1971 for those bills to slip through undetected? given the point of how things were done compared to today?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

A wuffo... is a non jumper.... usually one who is skeptical of anyone who does jump as having some kind of death wish.

Also a reference of "whu fo U jump from doz planes"

Also on a par with non airborne trained military being referred to as "legs"

( then again a whole lot of military jump trained types are "money jumpers"... those who only jump enough to keep "current" on paper and get their jump pay)

[warosebud 0]

The reason for recording the serial numbers is so you can prove in court that the money you have is the money that went to the crook and didn't come from grandma. If you spent the money in small amounts or exchanged it for bigger bills at the bank, a few hundred at a time it would go unnoticed.

[BobKnoss 0]

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How hard or easy would it be in 1971 for those bills to slip through undetected? given the point of how things were done compared to today?

Nobody was checking twenties for serial numbers to match a printed list in Florida, they look at 50's and 100's for counterfeits. Especially people who didn't care to know where the cash came from when selling a car?

[mrshutter45 21]

that was the feeling I always had contrary to what you read when people say not a single bill ever showed up.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

I am also interested in the "place card" on how it showed up so far away from the drop area? could the card have drifted that far north or is it another clue of where the door was actually opened?

just so many different scenario's to look at to try and come to any conclusions.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 50]

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I am also interested in the "place card" on how it showed up so far away from the drop area? could the card have drifted that far north or is it another clue of where the door was actually opened?

just so many different scenario's to look at to try and come to any conclusions.

Mrshutter45 and Rosebud, You need to visit Sluggo's web page and take a look at the radio transcripts and other information there. Sluggo's web page is at "http://n467us.com" and my apologies to both you and him for not having learned how to make a clicky on DZ.com.

Since Rosebud is a pilot, perhaps he would gain some insight into the problem of locating the jump site by giving a good critical reading of the radio transcripts from the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center people for the flight from Seattle to the point near the Fort Jones VORTAC in northern California where it was transferred to the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center.

Then carefully read the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center transcripts for the rest of the flight to Reno.

After reading those transcripts, how do you rate the Seattle transcripts with the Oakland transcripts? Do you notice anything missing from the Seattle transcripts compared to the Oakland transcripts?

Sluggo's web page has a great amount of additional information that will probably interest you.

In a previous post, I think I said the "placard" was found south of La Center. I should have said south of Toutle. There is information on this on Tom Kaye's web page.

[EVickiW 0]

Clicky: Sluggo's web page http://n467us.com

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[warosebud 0]

Thanks, I've read your analysis on Sluggos website. Taking into account the failure to find Cooper near Ariel and the money at Tina Bar I would think your analysis in part 7 should be taken seriously. I'll read the other info you have suggested.

[warosebud 0]

Mr. Blevins, I respect hyour research but if I walked into a market at that time and bought $200 worth of groceries with twentys, in one hour those 20s would be in the possession of many different people and no one would check. I don't think bank employees checked every 20 that went through their desk. If someone was found to be in possession of a large amount of money in 20's it would come to someones attention. Not one or a few 20's.

[1969912 0]

I wonder if Treasury has SN records of all bills that they have ever destroyed.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[mrshutter45 21]

I have also been to his website, very impressive I might add, if no sign of him anywhere around Ariel there must be something missing? how positive can we even be with the so called "pressure bump" was the bail out zone? the plane flew for two more hours and had to have more turbulence? how sure are we of the testing the FBI did after the jump? just seems to me someone needs to put something together and try to recreate the whole thing with the same plane and conditions, the best way I see anything being figured out is to do the samething over which I understand would be a costly event but I think it would be well worth the cost if a major network picked up the tab?


this all reminds so much of the convicts who escape Alcatraz, many claim that they also survived and yet not one single clue came up other than things found in the bay days and weeks later, this case has also had it share of sightings of the convicts that end up just like this....a dead end.

we have many suspects that have been dismissed and alot of circumstantial evidence produced but like the convicts we have no body?

I guess the bottom line is who really knows where he jumped? I think if we knew that question we would of found evidence?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 50]

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we have many suspects that have been dismissed and alot of circumstantial evidence produced but like the convicts we have no body?

I once saw a story that a body was sighted outside the Golden Gate bridge by an outbound freighter during the day after the convicts disappeared. The freighter radioed the information to the Coast Guard but they did not have a ship available to check it out at that moment. Based on information from the freighter, the story speculated that it was one of the Anglin brothers bodies. But it was never recovered.

[Robert99 50]

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Thanks, I've read your analysis on Sluggos website. Taking into account the failure to find Cooper near Ariel and the money at Tina Bar I would think your analysis in part 7 should be taken seriously. I'll read the other info you have suggested.

Thanks, I hope to have some more things like that written up in a week or two after some down time for routine maintenance.

[mrshutter45 21]

yes but I believe it was told of the body of Frank morris, the only other evidence that happened was a phone call the next day asking for a Lawyer (don't remember name) he asked the lady who she thought he might be and she said no....he said read the newspaper and hung up.

so once again we have circumstantial evidence and that could not be confirmed by the phone call or the sighting of the body which I found strange that they could tell who he was looking through binoculars of a floating body?


Clarence Carnes swore up and down that they made it by getting a post card saying "gone fishing" he also claims a boat was waiting for there pick up? do we believe a convict? who knows.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

I think I read where they did give a list to other countries but once again who is really going to check every single bill coming from where ever.

I think it's safe to say that the money could very well have slipped right on through.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[1969912 0]

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No. What they do is to check to make sure the bills are not counterfeit and that the numbers can still be read. Then they shred the bills and issue a check to the bank, business, or individual that turned them in. .....

How do you know they didn't/don't keep serial number records on the bills they destroy?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[skyjack71 0]

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I hope you don’t respond to this with red or blue letters.
What is a Whuffo?
rosebud

things said by this individual and subjective things.

Such as the individual claimed to have never been in WA, but later stated differently and this individual had 2 relatives living in the State of WA in 1971.

The individual claimed to have spoken to a relative or relative of a relative who was former law enforcement. The individual want to know if he or she could be prosecuted for with-holding infomation about a crime. This person was told that if any of the monies from a crime where spent for the benefit of this person with this person's knowledge that he or she could be prosecuted as (forgot the word use) after the fact.

Also the pictures I received from the individual are suggestive. Plus the story of 2 other parties - one who claimed she knew Weber was Cooper. This person could NOT contact the FBI because of a credibility issue and loyalty to another person. The other individual has only the memories of an 8-10 yrs old child. No this is NOT Marla, but we can call him Marvin if you like (not his real name).

I use RED and BLUE when I have to repeat things that have been said over and over and over and to re-examine the same OLD OLE things over and over aqain.

I use RED and Blue when I am tired of repeating something. Unlike another person who continually repeats and repeats the same posts over and over. I am NOT trying to sell anything and I am only looking for answers which I do NOT think I will ever receive from the FBI or anyone with the sources to investigate the criminal history of Weber and Collins.

Some of the guys here have found things the FBI never revealed to me. Such as the St. Pete arrest in 1977 and then another arrest in that same area in the 1940's along with an escape from a work farm which matches stories I had been told - I just didn't have the dates. These guys have narrowed my search with their investigative expertise and willingness.

I still need to know more about Weber or Wenz or what-ever name he used from July of 1945 to the end of 1949. Then there are the yrs as John Collins from 1962 to 1966. I know part of the John Collins period from 1965 to 1967. He worked for a company called Pyramid Life in KN, but the files are NOT available to me nor how he could have been an insurance agent without a license....probably why they would NOT produce evidence of his employment there. The step children of that time remember all the awards he won and that he did work for that company and that Duane and their mom lived in a nice neigborhood - yet the FBI nor the company will produce any evidence of this employment.

One has to wonder just HOW swift the FBI agents are...when this thread and a widow and those helping her can dig up MORE than they did on Weber.

I am going back and highlight some of this post in blue since some of it is infomation I have not revealed in the past. I am
basically limited in my current status to continue much longer and therefore - I am trying to tell all I know and hope someday someone will stumble into the TRUTH...I don't expect this to be the FBI or other official government employees.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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But the Big Question is how did they involve SO many people in the Cooper Conspiracy without getting caught? Easy. You recruit the right people.

With the Cooper Conspiracy thing going on and all of the claims of so much involvement by multiple individuals - yea I agree. They have the Cooper Curse or are newbies with NO knowledge of the crime and just posting to hear themselves "talk".

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And if this post makes any sense to you at all, then you are truly a victim of the Cooper Curse...

Well, your post makes sense to me and I am NOT into the conspiracy theory nor am I a victim of the Cooper curse.

I don't have time to update newbies regarding all of the details on the crime. They really need to go back to the other thread and this thread and read it in its entirety. I have things I need to tend to that are pressing and have nothing to do with conspiracies.

We seem to be going backwards and If I believed the conspiracy theory - I would say this thread will end with writers and seekers convinced the flight path is not the original flight path and the alternative "evidence" is actually the truth. Now MYTH will become known as TRUTH. After 40 yrs. there seems to be NO real solution in sight so why NOT just let the MYTHS continue into eternity. The facts of the case are being lost and completely jumbled.

The COOPER Incident WAS not part of a CONSPIRACY nor did it involve multiple individuals. I believe there was more than ONE person involved - before OR after. If you think simple logic there are only 2 answers and both could involve an accomplice.



I have a theory because of something Duane said and I need a simple answer.

If Cooper was buried by an accomplice - what would remain of his body if the accomplice removed the chute and harness?
What if there were 2 bodies in one grave - one beneath the actual casket place in the ground what would remain of the body beneath the casket and how would you be able to detect this considering the depth?

When I get REAL answers to this question by people who know - I will give the FBI what little information I have left. If I am able I will even fly to WA and show them the 4 places to look, but would need assistance with the trip and arrangements.

Life offers us NO guarantees and I am not ready to meet the Creator just yet. I want to be alive for the ENDING of this story and that ending comes when I get back to WA to explore the 4 places with others. Duane's ashes will come with me.

If I am able to do so in May or June - I will make it back to WA.
For the time being, I have more important things to take care of
so I won't be posting as much as I have in the past, but I will be paying attention to what is going on.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[warosebud 0]

Thanks, I now know what a whuffo is.

[warosebud 0]

"you are truly a victim of the Cooper Curse..." I have heard the warnings and I am fearless.
Seriously though you guys know that the FBI does not like you and would not like you to get the credit for solving this!
Of course they monitor this site. Do you know which of the posters is the agent? Just curious.
good night
rosebud

[BobKnoss 0]

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Thanks, I've read your analysis on Sluggos website. Taking into account the failure to find Cooper near Ariel and the money at Tina Bar I would think your analysis in part 7 should be taken seriously. I'll read the other info you have suggested. Warosebud

I guess the bottom line is who really knows where he jumped? I think if we knew that question we would of found evidence? Mrshutter45

[1969912 0]

Thanks for the info Robert.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[BobKnoss 0]

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We seem to be going backwards and If I believed the conspiracy theory - I would say this thread will end with writers and seekers convinced the flight path is not the original flight path and the alternative "evidence" is actually the truth. Now MYTH will become known as TRUTH. After 40 yrs. there seems to be NO real solution in sight so why NOT just let the MYTHS continue into eternity. The facts of the case are being lost and completely jumbled....
The COOPER Incident WAS not part of a CONSPIRACY nor did it involve multiple individuals. I believe there was more than ONE person involved - before OR after....

Jo, it can't be "not" a conspiracy and still have more than one person involved. There is absolutely no possible way a couple people could effect a major information sweep that includes even McCoy's high school yearbooks, his military pictures, files from the insurance company, the prisons, the whole internet, etc., etc. Well, maybe.

"Mark my words": As Howard Hunt would put it in an angry memo as his prosecution moved forward, "The Watergate bugging is only one of a number of highly illegal conspiracies engaged in by one or more of the defendants at the behest of senior White House officials. These as yet undisclosed crimes can be proved." Nixon's chief aide, Bob Haldeman, was caught on tape alluding to this very issue:
Haldeman: "The problem is that there are all kinds of other involvements and if they started a fishing thing on this they're going to start picking up other tracks."

Now we know who to ask, don't we??

Alexander Porter Butterfield (born April 6, 1926) is a retired U.S. military officer, public servant, and businessman. He served as the deputy assistant to President Richard Nixon from 1969 until 1973. He was a key figure in the Watergate scandal, but was not personally involved in any wrongdoing, and was not investigated nor prosecuted. He later became Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration.

Dum-dee-dum-dummmm.....