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QuoteBTW, some have questioned Jerry Thomas's Army survival training and instructor certifications. Ralph H vouched for JT's survvial expertise. I have seen copies of the certificates themselves. So has Geoff Gray.
Jerry and I disagree on whether Cooper lived, but we do not disagree on his Army survival credentials. We also agree that Cooper's rig is out there just waiting to be found. Jerry thinks it will be likely packed and provide proof of a no pull. I have a more optimistic outlook: deployed and no human remains.
I do NOT dispute Jerry's Military Records - just other things. What I was actually trying to say was the "method" both Knoss and Thomas have used regarding me. Those who have followed the thread all of these yrs will fully understand this without my spelling it out.
Sorry JT - I do not doubt your Military Records - I was just so mad at Knoss things just spewed out of me - I blew !
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteAfter reading Bruce's article, I'm almost convinced nobody actually knows!
My god, that article offers up two completely different stories as to who owned the parachute. Neither one with actual documentation.
How on earth can you possibly call that definitive?
Here's what Bruce himself says;QuoteAt this point, I simply do not know what the truth is, and frankly I think we’re just beginning to unravel this matter.
So not even Bruce is clear what's the truth is.
I'd offer up yet one more scenario to add to Bruce's list of possibilities. Way back when, Hayden got a repack from Cossey, has a signature on a packing card for a parachute similar to the ones described and has confabulated the story in his mind over the years to insert himself into the narrative.
Certainly wouldn't be the first such case of confabulation we've seen in this thread.
Question for Bruce.
In the article;Quote
Regardless, the FBI document, pages 226-227 of a larger Cooper case file, describe the parachutes in the following manner:
1. Civilian luxury type, tan soft cotton material outside, 26 foot while canopy inside. The parachute inside is a military parachute. The parachute has a foam pad cushion and a fray mark down the rib on the back from rubbing on metal.
2. A military backpack parachute, standard olive drab green on outside, a 28 foot white canopy on inside. He (Norman Hayden) stated that this parachute also has a foam pad cushion.
He (Hayden) stated that both parachutes bore lead seals which had not been broken and it is possible that he seals bear a confidential number, such as a rigger’s number. He (Hayden) stated that both of his parachutes were assembled for him by Mr. Earl Cossey, who works at Seattle Sky Sports in Issaquah, Washington.
What "larger Cooper case file" is that?
Quote
Geoffrey Gray is the source of this information on Norman Hayden and the FBI documents. It is my understanding from what Geoff and others told me that there are several massive "sub-files" on the Cooper case. One such sub-file contains these three pages on the parachutes delivered to Cooper.
mrshutter45 21
she says he landed 7 miles from his home, is that the one they are trying to link in Vancouver? I don't believe he was doing survey work in 1970? was later on if I'm not mistaken.
I think if you can find out the middle name of the person who lived at 2611 Unander Ave in Vancouver would also help, records only indicate a Lynn D Cooper from 69-70 married to Phyllis, Marla stated she didn't think he was married.
I think if you can find out the middle name of the person who lived at 2611 Unander Ave in Vancouver would also help, records only indicate a Lynn D Cooper from 69-70 married to Phyllis, Marla stated she didn't think he was married.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
georger 244
QuoteQuoteAfter reading Bruce's article, I'm almost convinced nobody actually knows!
Bruce, in your work on this case so far, with all the
interviews you have done, have you picked up any
anecdotes about the weather (in the V23 corridor)
that afternoon and evening? Especially anything you
would trust from reputable sources?
Thanks,
G.
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As noted earlier, I was on I-5 and in the Columbia River Gorge (between Portland and Biggs Junction) that fateful night. When I got back to Newberg, the DBC case was the big news, and I've been following the case ever since.
I worked for the IBM Corporation -- I used to organize seminars and symposiums for executives from some of our key mainframe accounts. Nowadays, I'm a college math professor, so anything (like symposiums) that increases knowledge and enhances awareness, in my opinion, can only help. I'm learning new stuff about the case all the time -- and this forum has played a big part in that behalf. I'll stay tuned -- thanks all. MeyerLouie
I worked for the IBM Corporation -- I used to organize seminars and symposiums for executives from some of our key mainframe accounts. Nowadays, I'm a college math professor, so anything (like symposiums) that increases knowledge and enhances awareness, in my opinion, can only help. I'm learning new stuff about the case all the time -- and this forum has played a big part in that behalf. I'll stay tuned -- thanks all. MeyerLouie
georger 244
QuoteAs noted earlier, I was on I-5 and in the Columbia River Gorge (between Portland and Biggs Junction) that fateful night. When I got back to Newberg, the DBC case was the big news, and I've been following the case ever since.
I worked for the IBM Corporation -- I used to organize seminars and symposiums for executives from some of our key mainframe accounts. Nowadays, I'm a college math professor, so anything (like symposiums) that increases knowledge and enhances awareness, in my opinion, can only help. I'm learning new stuff about the case all the time -- and this forum has played a big part in that behalf. I'll stay tuned -- thanks all. MeyerLouie
Thanks. Hope we can have some exchanges later -
BobKnoss 0
QuoteQuoteMy military experience has been completely exsponged from all records.
Isn't that the kind of thing a guy in a bar says when challenged about his "Seal" training?
Seriously, that's a simply ridiculous claim. If you're left standing alive to talk about it, there is always a paper trail. I don't care who you are. Bob, it's simply ridiculous to claim the government would have "exsponged" your records because of your "top secret" mission, yet you'd still somehow be able to talk about it.
Simply ridiculous.
I was never in the military, I left before the swearing-in. I was subsequently tried by Commander John Anderson and convicted of threatening my draftboard, Loraine K. Long, sentenced to four years at Fort Levinworth USDB, suspended. THAT is my military experience. I inquired under the Freedom of Information Act and verified that Mac purged everything just like he said. Even my draftboard files are spotless. No indication of my having been processed. Nothing. That is fact. Can't make up those kinds of facts. Search til you are blue in the face. I'd be happy to have you show me anything! It is simply NOT THERE! POOF!
I was never in the military, I left before the swearing-in.
Quote
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Robert99 50
QuoteAs noted earlier, I was on I-5 and in the Columbia River Gorge (between Portland and Biggs Junction) that fateful night. When I got back to Newberg, the DBC case was the big news, and I've been following the case ever since.
I worked for the IBM Corporation -- I used to organize seminars and symposiums for executives from some of our key mainframe accounts. Nowadays, I'm a college math professor, so anything (like symposiums) that increases knowledge and enhances awareness, in my opinion, can only help. I'm learning new stuff about the case all the time -- and this forum has played a big part in that behalf. I'll stay tuned -- thanks all. MeyerLouie
Is my map wrong or has Oregon re-arranged the Interstate Highways since 1971? According to current maps, Biggs, Oregon (presumably your Biggs Junction) is at Mile Post 104 on I-84 which actually does pass through the Columbia River Gorge.
You are presumably referring to Newberg, Oregon which is on the southwest side of the Portland area and west of I-5. So far as I can determine, I-5 is not even close to the Columbia River Gorge.
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteQuoteMy military experience has been completely exsponged from all records.
Isn't that the kind of thing a guy in a bar says when challenged about his "Seal" training?
Seriously, that's a simply ridiculous claim. If you're left standing alive to talk about it, there is always a paper trail. I don't care who you are. Bob, it's simply ridiculous to claim the government would have "exsponged" your records because of your "top secret" mission, yet you'd still somehow be able to talk about it.
Simply ridiculous.
I was never in the military, I left before the swearing-in. I was subsequently tried by Commander John Anderson and convicted of threatening my draftboard, Loraine K. Long, sentenced to four years at Fort Levinworth USDB, suspended. THAT is my military experience. I inquired under the Freedom of Information Act and verified that Mac purged everything just like he said. Even my draftboard files are spotless. No indication of my having been processed. Nothing. That is fact. Can't make up those kinds of facts. Search til you are blue in the face. I'd be happy to have you show me anything! It is simply NOT THERE! POOF!
Maybe 377 can add to or correct the following. If you were never in the military, you would be tried by a Federal Court and not a Military Court. I believe Mohammed Ali illustrated that point a number of years ago.
Consequently, you may have been in a Federal facility at Leavenworth but you would NOT be in the military facility there. But it is not likely that you were at Leavenworth in the first place and you don't have any military experience of any kind.
If you threatened a member of a local draft board, you would probably be in the county jail.
QuoteQuote
How is that DD-214 coming along?
Matt
If you pinch your nose, stick one finger in your ear and hold your breath does a whistle start to blow in your head? NO RECORDS ANYWHERE! WIPED CLEAN. POOF! BLANKET PARDON. Go figure. So sorry.
100% BS. There would be a DD-214, redacted but present. Try again.
Do you get any VA benefits? A retirement? Special letter from President Nixon stating to draw a check, no questions asked?
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
QuoteQuoteQuoteMy military experience has been completely exsponged from all records.
Isn't that the kind of thing a guy in a bar says when challenged about his "Seal" training?
Seriously, that's a simply ridiculous claim. If you're left standing alive to talk about it, there is always a paper trail. I don't care who you are. Bob, it's simply ridiculous to claim the government would have "exsponged" your records because of your "top secret" mission, yet you'd still somehow be able to talk about it.
Simply ridiculous.
I was never in the military, I left before the swearing-in. I was subsequently tried by Commander John Anderson and convicted of threatening my draftboard, Loraine K. Long, sentenced to four years at Fort Levinworth USDB, suspended. THAT is my military experience. I inquired under the Freedom of Information Act and verified that Mac purged everything just like he said. Even my draftboard files are spotless. No indication of my having been processed. Nothing. That is fact. Can't make up those kinds of facts. Search til you are blue in the face. I'd be happy to have you show me anything! It is simply NOT THERE! POOF!
Sure you can, IMO, you just did.
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
BobKnoss 0
Quote
If you threatened a member of a local draft board, you would probably be in the county jail.
Not the way it was. I can only state what happened, and am completely unable to respond to your comments or to anyone else's wild claims. I have no explanation for what transpired, only the fact that it did. Offer opinions all you want, I have nothing to argue and no logic to offer. I did not direct anything, I was directed. I was given no copies of anything, ever. And I burned my draft cards. All of them. I was NEVER contacted by the FBI or any law enforcement agency. My threat was to move to Canada, hardly a county transgression. Negative, negative, negative. Where's your supervisor, Jerry the computer? "I....am......not.....an.....undercover....computer......beezeeep."
Blevins: Am I invited to this symposim of yours as a speaker.Jerry
BobKnoss 0
Quote[
Sure you can, IMO, you just did.
Matt
Thank you for another Einsteinian postulate. See attached.
Captured in a negative time-warp of his own making, poor Matt blew his nose too hard or something. What is your problem? Are they not paying you enough? Ask for a raise. They can afford it. I'll write you a great scathing report. Crew member of the year award? NAW! You funny guy, though. Just not real good at it. You've had enough experience harassing me on various sites, none effectively. Very obvious. Keep trying, Dude. I'll give you advice if you wish.....
BobKnoss 0
QuoteBlevins: Am I invited to this symposim of yours as a speaker.Jerry
You are REQUIRED by popular demand! It would take what, 10 minutes for you to get banned and escorted out??
Robert99 50
QuoteQuote
If you threatened a member of a local draft board, you would probably be in the county jail.
Not the way it was. I can only state what happened, and am completely unable to respond to your comments or to anyone else's wild claims. I have no explanation for what transpired, only the fact that it did. Offer opinions all you want, I have nothing to argue and no logic to offer. I did not direct anything, I was directed. I was given no copies of anything, ever. And I burned my draft cards. All of them. I was NEVER contacted by the FBI or any law enforcement agency. My threat was to move to Canada, hardly a county transgression. Negative, negative, negative. Where's your supervisor, Jerry the computer? "I....am......not.....an.....undercover....computer......beezeeep."
"And I burned my draft cards. All of them." Just exactly how many draft cards did you have? I have never known an individual who had more than one draft card.
"My threat was to move to Canada, hardly a county transgression." Off hand, I would say that wasn't a threat or transgression at all.
I don't believe you have mentioned when the above events took place. Was it during the Vietnam era? If so, what was your draft number?
Guru312 0
QuoteBobKnoss: My military experience has been completely exsponged from all records.
Quade: Isn't that the kind of thing a guy in a bar says when challenged about his "Seal" training?
Seriously, that's a simply ridiculous claim. If you're left standing alive to talk about it, there is always a paper trail. I don't care who you are. Bob, it's simply ridiculous to claim the government would have "exsponged" your records because of your "top secret" mission, yet you'd still somehow be able to talk about it.
Simply ridiculous.
Another thing that's simply ridiculous is for me to spend any more time reading this stupid, addicting, inane, asinine, maddening and captivating forum thread.
What captivates me most about this thread are the comments from those of you who don't have the balls to jump out of an airplane. [Apologies to Amazon and Orange]
I often laugh out loud--and wake up my cat who sleeps next to my laptop--when I read some of the whuffo comments. You whuffos simply do not know what the hell you are talking about most of the time. It is hilarious but no longer worth my time.
I spent half a life time, it seems, in parachute jumping and teaching, flying jumpers and owning drop zones. I can assure you that for any of thousands of men or women, the DB Cooper 727 jump is very doable and survivable.
But, I don't believe any of us who jump would handle things as DB is reported to have done. To me, his actions smack of a clueless jerk. Anyone with jump experience and planning to make a jump like his would not do so wearing the shoes and clothes that he did.
Anyone with military or civilian parachute training would not use "front" and "back" in reference to potential rigs. Putting on a parachute harness is no more rocket science than putting on a pair of pants. Do it twice and you can do it for the rest of your life. Simply visiting any drop zone in the world would give someone the chance to see how to put on a rig of almost any variety.
Occam's razor and human nature tells me that no one willing to risk their life jumping from a jet plane two miles high is going to throw away money... for any reason. The found money along the river bank is explainable when certain basic facts are considered.
Simply put: He tied the money bag closed securely. He could not tie the bag to his body or the harness securely enough by himself. He jumped. The bag became unattached. The bag protected the money for years. Eventually, the suspension line which secured the bag became separated and the money spilled out. Some money was found.
His parachute is still out there...somewhere...opened or not opened. He may have lived; everyone else who has jumped a 727 has lived. Maybe he died.
I have lost interest because of the haughty arrogance and mostly clueless nature of the current batch of whuffo participants. The unpleasantness of reading their comments is not worth the laugh I get from doing so.
Have fun. Goodbye, DB Cooper...
I'm bailing out of here...
Guru312
I am not DB Cooper
I am not DB Cooper
Farflung 0
This shouldn’t be difficult since the bar is at absolute zero with nowhere lower to sink.
I’m talking about the latest batch of delusional characters who have taken time to cobble some sort of resume together but fail (as they all do) to think about one step downstream. I’m truly baffled by this activity since the internet has introduced speed of light validation and much larger groups to gather with relative ease. That is, I was silly enough to think that this sort of activity would be attenuated rather than amplified to levels which have produced the likes of Bernie Madoff and Jim Jones. I guess they succeeded because they had a message their followers desperately wanted to believe in the first place. I just don’t get it.
Same for these people that ‘claim’ a vast wealth of investigative skills since they were police, private detectives or CIA Special Ops as has been the case, more than once on this thread. After making these unsolicited and out of context declarations, these same super sleuths with atomic research skills go on to ask “What’s a WHUFFO?” This on a skydiving site after claiming they have been following this thread for a long time. Am I the only one that reads this sort of abysmal tripe and thinks W…..T…….F?
How insulting to think this electronic dais is occupied with such ‘monster-dorks’ as to let someone who presumably has access to one of many search engines and wasn’t capable of typing ‘WHUFFO’, hitting the Enter/Return key and reading the several dozen definitions offered in a matter of milliseconds. What makes these posers think this group possesses such a dim collective intelligence?
For those reading this thread and crafting your Cooper persona as something truly spectacular and exciting, please take a little extra time before your debut. Wanna claim ur a emglish teacher, den git sum spellcheckers 4 instance. If you’re going to claim you are a cop then you may want to avoid taking the title of Admiral; but if it makes you happy or feel pretty, then by all means go ahead.
Of course this excludes those who have no problem with the display of being a full frontal, wacko or those who want to be a ‘fluffer’ for the same. Please carry on, as your ilk have unintentionally saved me thousands of entertainment dollars, while propelling me much higher on the ‘intelligence bell curve’ than I deserve to occupy.
I’m talking about the latest batch of delusional characters who have taken time to cobble some sort of resume together but fail (as they all do) to think about one step downstream. I’m truly baffled by this activity since the internet has introduced speed of light validation and much larger groups to gather with relative ease. That is, I was silly enough to think that this sort of activity would be attenuated rather than amplified to levels which have produced the likes of Bernie Madoff and Jim Jones. I guess they succeeded because they had a message their followers desperately wanted to believe in the first place. I just don’t get it.
Same for these people that ‘claim’ a vast wealth of investigative skills since they were police, private detectives or CIA Special Ops as has been the case, more than once on this thread. After making these unsolicited and out of context declarations, these same super sleuths with atomic research skills go on to ask “What’s a WHUFFO?” This on a skydiving site after claiming they have been following this thread for a long time. Am I the only one that reads this sort of abysmal tripe and thinks W…..T…….F?
How insulting to think this electronic dais is occupied with such ‘monster-dorks’ as to let someone who presumably has access to one of many search engines and wasn’t capable of typing ‘WHUFFO’, hitting the Enter/Return key and reading the several dozen definitions offered in a matter of milliseconds. What makes these posers think this group possesses such a dim collective intelligence?
For those reading this thread and crafting your Cooper persona as something truly spectacular and exciting, please take a little extra time before your debut. Wanna claim ur a emglish teacher, den git sum spellcheckers 4 instance. If you’re going to claim you are a cop then you may want to avoid taking the title of Admiral; but if it makes you happy or feel pretty, then by all means go ahead.
Of course this excludes those who have no problem with the display of being a full frontal, wacko or those who want to be a ‘fluffer’ for the same. Please carry on, as your ilk have unintentionally saved me thousands of entertainment dollars, while propelling me much higher on the ‘intelligence bell curve’ than I deserve to occupy.
georger 244
QuoteOver the last couple of years, I have seen one post after another in this BK vein. The story is as fluid as the Mississippi, and changes course just as much.
Reminds me a LOT of this episode of Twilight Zone.
I suspect you may play the harmonica...
What in Hell is a "BK vein" ?
BK Topper? (Burger King) ?
Vein that runs to a Burger King in your head?
What does any of this have to do with DB Cooper?
Why not keep your encyclopedia of personal
nosepicking you think is funny, to yourself and out
of public sight?
Information for the benfit of those who do not know the story:
Duane was in Jefferson as Collins and received a commutation of sentence under that name. Weber was not added to the Jefferson file until it was placed into the public records and accessible on line.
COMMUTATION OF SENTENCE for John C. Collins has been posted in the thread and it is authentic.
Seems like the research of others has proved otherwise...!
Do you realize how TELLING the post you just made is? Of course not! You are the one responsible for MUDDY Waters regarding Weber. YOU know you denied knowing anyone by the name of Tommy Gunn.
Tommy was an old friend of Duane's who knew him as John Collins. Tommy was the man who had a kiosk in a mall in a city we had moved to in 1980. I heard someone holler "JOHN" and Duane turned around. I told Duane "he called out John not Duane", but Duane told me he knew this man. Duane asked me to stay in the area I was and he walked down toward the man.
A few moment later the man comes up to where I was waiting for Duane. After being introduced to him I asked why he called out John. He told me that was because of the Johnny Jar - the very same thing the ex-wife told me 17 yrs later. This was after I was able to find her without the help of the FBI and convince her to tell me about her life with Duane.
She only knew him as John Collins until 1968 when he was released from Jefferson as John Collins. Even her own children tell the story about how they only knew Duane as Johnny until 1968.
After I met Tommy he would ask Duane and I go go to dinner he and his girlfriend. Duane told me Tommy was a very dangerous man (never explained why - even when I asked). He said they would want us to go to their home and I was to say I was not feeling well. I did as Duane told me.
Tommy was the guy I contacted after I found out who Dan Cooper was. He was very nervous on the phone when I told him what Duane had told me and stated "Duane knew people in high places and if you want to be around to play with your grand kid, destroy everything you have and do not look back". A few yrs later I did contact him again, and he was nice to me - but refused to talk about Duane or John or how he knew him.
Now you guys have heard this for the umpteenth time - SORRY, but Knoss MADE ME DO IT.
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