mrshutter45 21 #30276 January 30, 2012 Quote Marla just responded to my email inquiry on this matter. She confirmed LD's DOB as Spetember 17, 1931. She says his Nevada marriage license has incorrect information. The error in spelling Dewey's name is her's and she pleads a mild form of dyslexia induced by fatigue. ok, well then ask her to explain Dewey Max Cooper born 8/11/31 vs Lynn 9/17/31? I do have a copy of his death cert, but now do I have incorrect information on a second Cooper? something is still wrong somewhere? If she is going on record as to having dyslexia, this will open more doors rather than closing them on many of her statements given! Thanks for following up on this Bruce. Dewey Max COOPER Birth Date: 11 Aug 1931 Death Date: May 1985 Social Security Number: 541-34-**** State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Oregon Death Residence Localities ZIP Code: 97305 Localities: Brooks, Marion, Oregon Salem, Marion, Oregon Death Benefit Localities Zip Code: 97305 Localities: Brooks, Marion, Oregon Salem, Marion, Oregon 43. DORIS5 LUCKENBILL (LEWIS MARTIN4, STELLA ANN3 KILGORE, LEWIS MYERS2, ANDREW THOMAS1) was born Feb 1933. She married (1) EARL THORNTON. She married (2) DEWEY MAX COOPER. He was born 11 Aug 1931, and died 12 May 1985 in Salem, Marion, Oregon294,295. She married (3) RONALD WILSON HARGREAVES 07 Oct 1983 in Incline Village, Nevada296. He was born Dec 1935. More About RONALD HARGREAVES and DORIS LUCKENBILL: Marriage: 07 Oct 1983, Incline Village, Nevada296 Children of DORIS LUCKENBILL and DEWEY COOPER are: i. LESLIE6 COOPER. ii. DENNIS COOPER. iii. DEAN COOPER. 294. SS Death Index, Name: Dewey Cooper SSN: 541-34-**** Last Residence: 97305 Salem, Marion, Oregon, United States of America Born: 11 Aug 1931 Last Benefit: 97305 Salem, Marion, Oregon, United States of America Died: May 1985 State (Year) SSN issued: Oregon (Before 1951) . 295. Oregon Death Index, Name: Cooper, Dewey Max County: Multnomah Death Date: 12 May 1985 Certificate: 85-08767 Age: 53 Birth Date: 11 Aug 1931 Spouse: Janet . She has said on record that Dewey was older, so, what birth dates are correct in this matter? If Lynn is younger as she stated in the past, then he must have been younger than 40 in 1971?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #30277 January 30, 2012 QuoteThe whole thing could be a tempest in a teapot. If your information is correct then it is Marla who made the first move (contacted the FBI) ? I wonder if somebody must have suggested she do that ? Thanks. Georger: Remember I did NOT go public for 4 1/2 yrs - NOT until the FBI lied to me about Duane's past proving to me that they HAD NOT investigated the background of DuaneCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30278 January 30, 2012 There is some relationship between the forecast info from Carr (that Georger recently posted) and information Carr had posted a couple of times about winds (for estimating drift under canopy). The most significant fact here is that the altitudes for which Carr posted wind info are not among the altitudes shown in the weather bureau winds aloft forecast. This means Carr did not get his info from a winds aloft forecast. Carr stated winds at surface, 2K', 5K' and 7K'. The winds aloft forecasts have entries for 3K', 6K' and 9K'. Hopefully his info was from actual observations rather than forecast. In one of his posts, Carr related his numbers to Orchard, WA. So there is potential for a little difference between his numbers and the weather service reports because of spacial separation. And there is the 15 minutes or so of time difference, which we can account for approximately. The weather service info from the reports Georger posted, plus that from Weather Underground, indicate that PDX wind speed rose steeply between 7pm and 8pm. The 9pm report indicates even a bit more increase. So the wind speed at the surface at 8:15 would have been a bit more than 10kt. Carr said 15kt at the surface. Is this a reasonable difference considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Would the wind speed at PDX be a bit lower than out on the plain because of PDX being down in the river bed? The weather service info indicates that wind direction changed from 270° (W) at 8pm to 190° (almost S) at 9pm. Interpolating between the two would give 250° at 8:15. Carr said 235°. Again, not quite the same, but in the same ball park. Is this reasonable considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Finally, the winds aloft forecast for 3K', 6K' and 9K' all indicate wind direction of 260° while Carr's post said 235°, 230° and 225° for 2K', 5K' and 7K' (around 230° at all levels) and about the same at the surface. This is a bit of difference but remember that there was spacial separation, time separation, and the weather bureau data is only a forecast, not actuals. But the data Carr posted was basically constant at all altitudes, and so was the data for the forecasts. The comparison for wind speed is a bit different. The weather bureau forecast wind speeds progressed steadily with increasing altitude. 10kt, 18kt and 26kt at 3K', 6K' and 9K'. I've thought it odd that Carr's data had the speed rise from 20 to 25 and then drop back to 20 at 7K'. Is such a pattern reasonable? Oh, yeah: The kinder, gentler, Hominid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #30279 January 30, 2012 Weather report from Captain Tom Bohan, 1.30.12; contact info provided by Snowmman. I spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today. Sadly, Captain Bohan passed away in 1993. However, Sharon clearly remembered his affection for the DB Cooper saga, and we had a brief, but animated conversation.. “The weather was horrible that night, from what he told me,” Sharon said. In addition, she said that Tom was convinced that DB Cooper survived the jump, but is “hanging in a tree somewhere.” Sharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. She also said that Tom became a “good friend” of Ralph Himmelsbach. Captain Bohan was a big fan of the DB Cooper caper, and Sharon said they went to the Ariel Tavern on several occasions for the Cooper Daze Festival, and that they frequently roamed the woods looking for evidence of DB Cooper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #30280 January 30, 2012 Dewey Max COOPER Birth Date: 11 Aug 1931 Death Date: May 1985 Social Security Number: Quote I am following up with Marla to clarify. LD's DOB of Septemebr 17, 1931 is what is engraved on his gravestone. However, Marla is beginning to question the veracity of what is written in stone, though, and she says she has two marriage licenses for LD that state his DOB as 1933. She thinks that the descrepancy may have arisen by his desire to enter the military early, at 17. So, 9.17.33 makes LD 38 years old in November, 1971. Hmmmm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hominid 0 #30281 January 30, 2012 Thanks Bruce (and Snowmman). Please ask her to watch for specifics about the "horrible" weather, and about where it was that he was "x" minutes behind. He couldn't have been the same time behind for the entire distance because the flight would not have been going as slowly as 305. And a copy of the report he filed? QuoteSharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #30282 January 30, 2012 Bruce wrote:QuoteI spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today... Your journalistic energy is really appreciated Bruce. It would be interesting to see what other cockpit crew members might recall. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #30283 January 31, 2012 QuoteWeather report from Captain Tom Bohan, 1.30.12; contact info provided by Snowmman. I spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today. Sadly, Captain Bohan passed away in 1993. However, Sharon clearly remembered his affection for the DB Cooper saga, and we had a brief, but animated conversation.. “The weather was horrible that night, from what he told me,” Sharon said. In addition, she said that Tom was convinced that DB Cooper survived the jump, but is “hanging in a tree somewhere.” Sharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. She also said that Tom became a “good friend” of Ralph Himmelsbach. Captain Bohan was a big fan of the DB Cooper caper, and Sharon said they went to the Ariel Tavern on several occasions for the Cooper Daze Festival, and that they frequently roamed the woods looking for evidence of DB Cooper. Bruce, Please ask Mrs. Bohan if the Captain's log book indicates his take-off time from Seattle and landing time in Portland (wheels off to wheels on). Also, the total time logged which would be the gate-to-gate (or block-to-block) time plus which Victor Airway he was on (presumably it was V-23 East). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #30284 January 31, 2012 Quote Dewey Max COOPER Birth Date: 11 Aug 1931 Death Date: May 1985 Social Security Number: Quote I am following up with Marla to clarify. LD's DOB of Septemebr 17, 1931 is what is engraved on his gravestone. However, Marla is beginning to question the veracity of what is written in stone, though, and she says she has two marriage licenses for LD that state his DOB as 1933. She thinks that the descrepancy may have arisen by his desire to enter the military early, at 17. So, 9.17.33 makes LD 38 years old in November, 1971. Hmmmm. well, once again we have issues! we now have Lynn born in 1931,32 and now 33? the last two dates make more sense because then you would have incorrect dates on Dewey as well, looks like he was much younger than originally thought, and unfortunately looks like the head stone is also incorrect! If Dewey's birth is correct you really can't accept Lynn's date of 30 days after Dewey was born under any circumstances! this now makes him way to young to fit the profile of D.B.Cooper! The big question now is......how much of this does the FBI know? his Military records indicate a discharge date of 4/22/55, if you subtract 4 years which would be 1951. this puts him at the age of 18, and would show his birth to be in 1933"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #30285 January 31, 2012 QuoteBruce wrote:QuoteI spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today... Your journalistic energy is really appreciated Bruce. It would be interesting to see what other cockpit crew members might recall. 377 Thanks, Mark. Speaking of journalistic energies, Geoffrey emailed today asking about Sheridan. GG may be heading out that way to pick up the hunt again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #30286 January 31, 2012 QuoteThere is some relationship between the forecast info from Carr (that Georger recently posted) and information Carr had posted a couple of times about winds (for estimating drift under canopy). The most significant fact here is that the altitudes for which Carr posted wind info are not among the altitudes shown in the weather bureau winds aloft forecast. This means Carr did not get his info from a winds aloft forecast. Carr stated winds at surface, 2K', 5K' and 7K'. The winds aloft forecasts have entries for 3K', 6K' and 9K'. Hopefully his info was from actual observations rather than forecast. In one of his posts, Carr related his numbers to Orchard, WA. So there is potential for a little difference between his numbers and the weather service reports because of spacial separation. And there is the 15 minutes or so of time difference, which we can account for approximately. The weather service info from the reports Georger posted, plus that from Weather Underground, indicate that PDX wind speed rose steeply between 7pm and 8pm. The 9pm report indicates even a bit more increase. So the wind speed at the surface at 8:15 would have been a bit more than 10kt. Carr said 15kt at the surface. Is this a reasonable difference considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Would the wind speed at PDX be a bit lower than out on the plain because of PDX being down in the river bed? The weather service info indicates that wind direction changed from 270° (W) at 8pm to 190° (almost S) at 9pm. Interpolating between the two would give 250° at 8:15. Carr said 235°. Again, not quite the same, but in the same ball park. Is this reasonable considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Finally, the winds aloft forecast for 3K', 6K' and 9K' all indicate wind direction of 260° while Carr's post said 235°, 230° and 225° for 2K', 5K' and 7K' (around 230° at all levels) and about the same at the surface. This is a bit of difference but remember that there was spacial separation, time separation, and the weather bureau data is only a forecast, not actuals. But the data Carr posted was basically constant at all altitudes, and so was the data for the forecasts. The comparison for wind speed is a bit different. The weather bureau forecast wind speeds progressed steadily with increasing altitude. 10kt, 18kt and 26kt at 3K', 6K' and 9K'. I've thought it odd that Carr's data had the speed rise from 20 to 25 and then drop back to 20 at 7K'. Is such a pattern reasonable? Oh, yeah: The kinder, gentler, Hominid wonderful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #30287 January 31, 2012 QuoteWeather report from Captain Tom Bohan, 1.30.12; contact info provided by Snowmman. I spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today. Sadly, Captain Bohan passed away in 1993. However, Sharon clearly remembered his affection for the DB Cooper saga, and we had a brief, but animated conversation.. “The weather was horrible that night, from what he told me,” Sharon said. In addition, she said that Tom was convinced that DB Cooper survived the jump, but is “hanging in a tree somewhere.” Sharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. She also said that Tom became a “good friend” of Ralph Himmelsbach. Captain Bohan was a big fan of the DB Cooper caper, and Sharon said they went to the Ariel Tavern on several occasions for the Cooper Daze Festival, and that they frequently roamed the woods looking for evidence of DB Cooper. good work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #30288 January 31, 2012 I know how despised and hated this sort of crap remains on this quest for ‘the Truth’ but I just couldn’t help myself. Yes, I stayed in my chair and researched the banal for several minutes. I managed to find a flight schedule (aka timetable) for Continental Airlines around the time of the Cooper caper (31 Oct 1971). Here, you can look at it too: http://www.departedflights.com/CO103171intro.html I mean what’s the harm in finding the flight number for this Continental flight, in a 727, which left Seattle for Portland, which was four minutes behind Flight 305, in terrible and undocumented weather? Right? But I’m sure some will be found. All I could find were departures FROM Seattle at 6:10 and 11:05 PM (local) arriving at PDX at roughly 6:46 and 11:41 PM (local). I’m sure there is much better information out there; I’m just too dorky to find it and stuff. Won’t someone help me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #30289 January 31, 2012 QuoteOfficial timetables might not be accurate. They COULD refer to the correct times certain flights were expected to arrive/depart. First thing to discover is whether the Seattle FBI held/diverted/delayed flights at SeaTac during the time of the hijacking. This could be possible, considering the situation. Parachute delivery, fuel delivery, money delivery, sniper positioning, negotiating...it's not a stretch, and should be verified. The transcript says the airport was closed for a period - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #30290 January 31, 2012 QuoteOfficial timetables might not be accurate. They COULD refer to the correct times certain flights were expected to arrive/depart. First thing to discover is whether the Seattle FBI held/diverted/delayed flights at SeaTac during the time of the hijacking. This could be possible, considering the situation. Parachute delivery, fuel delivery, money delivery, sniper positioning, negotiating...it's not a stretch, and should be verified. Well, part of it was waiting for McCoy to arrive from Utah, where he was finishing dinner..... He followed in a helicopter and is depicted in the FBI film of the re-enactment. Watch it. I posted the picture of McCoy's stand-in actor for that film once here already. (SEE BELOW) Not very well coordinated fabrication when somebody wants to be famous and the rest want to meld into the woodwork. Famous, infamous, he didn't care much. Tommy Gunn. Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., Captain Tommy Gunn. Rauhl with an eye patch. He SAID he was gunna be famous!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #30291 January 31, 2012 Quote Dewey Max Cooper Cooper DEWEY MAX COOPER. DEWEY COOPER LESLIE COOPER. DENNIS COOPER. DEAN COOPER. Dewey Cooper Cooper. Don Cooper. Jamie Cooper. NOBODY with the real name COOPER was involved even remotely with the COOPER hijacking. DAN COOPER was a comic book pilot character from Canadian comics. This is beyond the pale, er puke pail. Get serious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #30292 January 31, 2012 QuoteQuote Dewey Max Cooper Cooper DEWEY MAX COOPER. DEWEY COOPER LESLIE COOPER. DENNIS COOPER. DEAN COOPER. Dewey Cooper Cooper. Don Cooper. Jamie Cooper. NOBODY with the real name COOPER was involved even remotely with the COOPER hijacking. DAN COOPER was a comic book pilot character from Canadian comics. This is beyond the pale, er puke pail. Get serious. (get serious) Seems that question has been presented to you many times over! I have an old toilet in my back yard with a sign on it "Bob Knoss Files" when you open the lid, there is a bunch of crap in it! I have brought valid points to a story that Bruce is following up on an would appreciate no further remarks from you! Thank You"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #30293 January 31, 2012 I’m already seeing some ‘knee jerk’ answers which don’t appear attributed or thought through. Flight 305 had a designator…. what was Bohan’s Continental, nom de sky? 307, 782, 783? If one knows the airfield was closed they must know this long discussed flight number, come on. This paradox of knowing some things to such painful (thing prostate check) detail then brushing off others is amazing. Hey, maybe someone can claim to be a college professor….. cuz that makes what they say true, so that would fix these inconsistencies which are so hated, reviled and un-liked. Plus ‘Flight Whatchamacallit’ was four minutes behind Flight 305. Four minutes. Hmmm….. how could they know that a Continental flight was four minutes behind Flight 305 when there is such ambiguity about the very location of 305? Four minutes at 305’s velocity is 12 miles of separation and there have been claims of 305 being off centerline a greater distance than 12 miles. Gosh, could people be data mining or…. Gasp!.... making things up as they go? Nawww…….. not on this thread. I gotta believe if a person who has a pet theory and spent time searching the woods and is a ‘Cooper fan’ would supply nothing but unfiltered, dry data. Especially if their data matched a pre-plotted curve they have in a death grip. I’ll just keep fishing, steering and manipulating while being virtuous and stuff. Another recap…… a Continental pilot was on a flight with no name and exactly four minutes behind Flight 305 which has an unknown location and flying through an unreported wind anomaly in terrible weather according to his wife who recalls this on a cold call, because her husband was a ‘Cooper fan’ so this single data point can be used to trump all existing data. Sounds like par for the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #30294 January 31, 2012 QuoteThere is some relationship between the forecast info from Carr (that Georger recently posted) and information Carr had posted a couple of times about winds (for estimating drift under canopy). The most significant fact here is that the altitudes for which Carr posted wind info are not among the altitudes shown in the weather bureau winds aloft forecast. This means Carr did not get his info from a winds aloft forecast. Carr stated winds at surface, 2K', 5K' and 7K'. The winds aloft forecasts have entries for 3K', 6K' and 9K'. Hopefully his info was from actual observations rather than forecast. In one of his posts, Carr related his numbers to Orchard, WA. So there is potential for a little difference between his numbers and the weather service reports because of spacial separation. And there is the 15 minutes or so of time difference, which we can account for approximately. The weather service info from the reports Georger posted, plus that from Weather Underground, indicate that PDX wind speed rose steeply between 7pm and 8pm. The 9pm report indicates even a bit more increase. So the wind speed at the surface at 8:15 would have been a bit more than 10kt. Carr said 15kt at the surface. Is this a reasonable difference considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Would the wind speed at PDX be a bit lower than out on the plain because of PDX being down in the river bed? The weather service info indicates that wind direction changed from 270° (W) at 8pm to 190° (almost S) at 9pm. Interpolating between the two would give 250° at 8:15. Carr said 235°. Again, not quite the same, but in the same ball park. Is this reasonable considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Finally, the winds aloft forecast for 3K', 6K' and 9K' all indicate wind direction of 260° while Carr's post said 235°, 230° and 225° for 2K', 5K' and 7K' (around 230° at all levels) and about the same at the surface. This is a bit of difference but remember that there was spacial separation, time separation, and the weather bureau data is only a forecast, not actuals. But the data Carr posted was basically constant at all altitudes, and so was the data for the forecasts. The comparison for wind speed is a bit different. The weather bureau forecast wind speeds progressed steadily with increasing altitude. 10kt, 18kt and 26kt at 3K', 6K' and 9K'. I've thought it odd that Carr's data had the speed rise from 20 to 25 and then drop back to 20 at 7K'. Is such a pattern reasonable? Oh, yeah: The kinder, gentler, Hominid Hominid, There is a map on Sluggo's web page describing the first guess at where Cooper jumped and his possible landing area. A write-up accompanies this map and states that the weather information used in compiling the map was provided by the "Redacted" NWA Meteorology Chief. From this map and write-up an estimate can be made of the winds and their direction that was used in that exercise. But did the NWA weather people have access to information other than that provided by the FAA and National Weather Service? No, they did not. If anyone disagrees with this, then state where that information came from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #30295 January 31, 2012 Of course Intelligent Design is the answer to any Darwinian theory where observable data sets are replaced with blind faith fueled by raw ego. The answer is X, and X is correct, because I say so. Oh sure there are those moments of false collaboration but they will only survive as long as everyone follows the same hymnal at the same time. Could there be a Darwinian profile associated with Intelligent Design? The irony would be exquisite and tragic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #30296 January 31, 2012 Quote Get serious. Thank You Show ANY relevance to any Cooper and I will shut up FOREVER! Nothing valid exists because it did not happen. Granted there are many mental cases out there that have been told stories by Cooper wannabes with the Cooper name.. Kinda natural I guess. Kinda like Jesse James relatives, etc. Why, I'm related to a president, just like most of you. Cousin of my gramma, he was. Fat, incompetent, lazy. You know the one. He was probably related to a Cooper, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30281 January 30, 2012 Thanks Bruce (and Snowmman). Please ask her to watch for specifics about the "horrible" weather, and about where it was that he was "x" minutes behind. He couldn't have been the same time behind for the entire distance because the flight would not have been going as slowly as 305. And a copy of the report he filed? QuoteSharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #30282 January 30, 2012 Bruce wrote:QuoteI spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today... Your journalistic energy is really appreciated Bruce. It would be interesting to see what other cockpit crew members might recall. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #30283 January 31, 2012 QuoteWeather report from Captain Tom Bohan, 1.30.12; contact info provided by Snowmman. I spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today. Sadly, Captain Bohan passed away in 1993. However, Sharon clearly remembered his affection for the DB Cooper saga, and we had a brief, but animated conversation.. “The weather was horrible that night, from what he told me,” Sharon said. In addition, she said that Tom was convinced that DB Cooper survived the jump, but is “hanging in a tree somewhere.” Sharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. She also said that Tom became a “good friend” of Ralph Himmelsbach. Captain Bohan was a big fan of the DB Cooper caper, and Sharon said they went to the Ariel Tavern on several occasions for the Cooper Daze Festival, and that they frequently roamed the woods looking for evidence of DB Cooper. Bruce, Please ask Mrs. Bohan if the Captain's log book indicates his take-off time from Seattle and landing time in Portland (wheels off to wheels on). Also, the total time logged which would be the gate-to-gate (or block-to-block) time plus which Victor Airway he was on (presumably it was V-23 East). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #30284 January 31, 2012 Quote Dewey Max COOPER Birth Date: 11 Aug 1931 Death Date: May 1985 Social Security Number: Quote I am following up with Marla to clarify. LD's DOB of Septemebr 17, 1931 is what is engraved on his gravestone. However, Marla is beginning to question the veracity of what is written in stone, though, and she says she has two marriage licenses for LD that state his DOB as 1933. She thinks that the descrepancy may have arisen by his desire to enter the military early, at 17. So, 9.17.33 makes LD 38 years old in November, 1971. Hmmmm. well, once again we have issues! we now have Lynn born in 1931,32 and now 33? the last two dates make more sense because then you would have incorrect dates on Dewey as well, looks like he was much younger than originally thought, and unfortunately looks like the head stone is also incorrect! If Dewey's birth is correct you really can't accept Lynn's date of 30 days after Dewey was born under any circumstances! this now makes him way to young to fit the profile of D.B.Cooper! The big question now is......how much of this does the FBI know? his Military records indicate a discharge date of 4/22/55, if you subtract 4 years which would be 1951. this puts him at the age of 18, and would show his birth to be in 1933"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #30285 January 31, 2012 QuoteBruce wrote:QuoteI spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today... Your journalistic energy is really appreciated Bruce. It would be interesting to see what other cockpit crew members might recall. 377 Thanks, Mark. Speaking of journalistic energies, Geoffrey emailed today asking about Sheridan. GG may be heading out that way to pick up the hunt again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30286 January 31, 2012 QuoteThere is some relationship between the forecast info from Carr (that Georger recently posted) and information Carr had posted a couple of times about winds (for estimating drift under canopy). The most significant fact here is that the altitudes for which Carr posted wind info are not among the altitudes shown in the weather bureau winds aloft forecast. This means Carr did not get his info from a winds aloft forecast. Carr stated winds at surface, 2K', 5K' and 7K'. The winds aloft forecasts have entries for 3K', 6K' and 9K'. Hopefully his info was from actual observations rather than forecast. In one of his posts, Carr related his numbers to Orchard, WA. So there is potential for a little difference between his numbers and the weather service reports because of spacial separation. And there is the 15 minutes or so of time difference, which we can account for approximately. The weather service info from the reports Georger posted, plus that from Weather Underground, indicate that PDX wind speed rose steeply between 7pm and 8pm. The 9pm report indicates even a bit more increase. So the wind speed at the surface at 8:15 would have been a bit more than 10kt. Carr said 15kt at the surface. Is this a reasonable difference considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Would the wind speed at PDX be a bit lower than out on the plain because of PDX being down in the river bed? The weather service info indicates that wind direction changed from 270° (W) at 8pm to 190° (almost S) at 9pm. Interpolating between the two would give 250° at 8:15. Carr said 235°. Again, not quite the same, but in the same ball park. Is this reasonable considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Finally, the winds aloft forecast for 3K', 6K' and 9K' all indicate wind direction of 260° while Carr's post said 235°, 230° and 225° for 2K', 5K' and 7K' (around 230° at all levels) and about the same at the surface. This is a bit of difference but remember that there was spacial separation, time separation, and the weather bureau data is only a forecast, not actuals. But the data Carr posted was basically constant at all altitudes, and so was the data for the forecasts. The comparison for wind speed is a bit different. The weather bureau forecast wind speeds progressed steadily with increasing altitude. 10kt, 18kt and 26kt at 3K', 6K' and 9K'. I've thought it odd that Carr's data had the speed rise from 20 to 25 and then drop back to 20 at 7K'. Is such a pattern reasonable? Oh, yeah: The kinder, gentler, Hominid wonderful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30287 January 31, 2012 QuoteWeather report from Captain Tom Bohan, 1.30.12; contact info provided by Snowmman. I spoke with Captain Tom Bohan’s wife, Sharon Bohan, today. Sadly, Captain Bohan passed away in 1993. However, Sharon clearly remembered his affection for the DB Cooper saga, and we had a brief, but animated conversation.. “The weather was horrible that night, from what he told me,” Sharon said. In addition, she said that Tom was convinced that DB Cooper survived the jump, but is “hanging in a tree somewhere.” Sharon promised me that she would peruse Tom’s log books and find the names of his flight crew for that night. She confirmed that Captain Bohan was flying a 727 from Sea-Tac to Portland, and was a few minutes behind Flight 305. She also said that Tom became a “good friend” of Ralph Himmelsbach. Captain Bohan was a big fan of the DB Cooper caper, and Sharon said they went to the Ariel Tavern on several occasions for the Cooper Daze Festival, and that they frequently roamed the woods looking for evidence of DB Cooper. good work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30288 January 31, 2012 I know how despised and hated this sort of crap remains on this quest for ‘the Truth’ but I just couldn’t help myself. Yes, I stayed in my chair and researched the banal for several minutes. I managed to find a flight schedule (aka timetable) for Continental Airlines around the time of the Cooper caper (31 Oct 1971). Here, you can look at it too: http://www.departedflights.com/CO103171intro.html I mean what’s the harm in finding the flight number for this Continental flight, in a 727, which left Seattle for Portland, which was four minutes behind Flight 305, in terrible and undocumented weather? Right? But I’m sure some will be found. All I could find were departures FROM Seattle at 6:10 and 11:05 PM (local) arriving at PDX at roughly 6:46 and 11:41 PM (local). I’m sure there is much better information out there; I’m just too dorky to find it and stuff. Won’t someone help me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30289 January 31, 2012 QuoteOfficial timetables might not be accurate. They COULD refer to the correct times certain flights were expected to arrive/depart. First thing to discover is whether the Seattle FBI held/diverted/delayed flights at SeaTac during the time of the hijacking. This could be possible, considering the situation. Parachute delivery, fuel delivery, money delivery, sniper positioning, negotiating...it's not a stretch, and should be verified. The transcript says the airport was closed for a period - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #30290 January 31, 2012 QuoteOfficial timetables might not be accurate. They COULD refer to the correct times certain flights were expected to arrive/depart. First thing to discover is whether the Seattle FBI held/diverted/delayed flights at SeaTac during the time of the hijacking. This could be possible, considering the situation. Parachute delivery, fuel delivery, money delivery, sniper positioning, negotiating...it's not a stretch, and should be verified. Well, part of it was waiting for McCoy to arrive from Utah, where he was finishing dinner..... He followed in a helicopter and is depicted in the FBI film of the re-enactment. Watch it. I posted the picture of McCoy's stand-in actor for that film once here already. (SEE BELOW) Not very well coordinated fabrication when somebody wants to be famous and the rest want to meld into the woodwork. Famous, infamous, he didn't care much. Tommy Gunn. Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., Captain Tommy Gunn. Rauhl with an eye patch. He SAID he was gunna be famous!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #30291 January 31, 2012 Quote Dewey Max Cooper Cooper DEWEY MAX COOPER. DEWEY COOPER LESLIE COOPER. DENNIS COOPER. DEAN COOPER. Dewey Cooper Cooper. Don Cooper. Jamie Cooper. NOBODY with the real name COOPER was involved even remotely with the COOPER hijacking. DAN COOPER was a comic book pilot character from Canadian comics. This is beyond the pale, er puke pail. Get serious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #30292 January 31, 2012 QuoteQuote Dewey Max Cooper Cooper DEWEY MAX COOPER. DEWEY COOPER LESLIE COOPER. DENNIS COOPER. DEAN COOPER. Dewey Cooper Cooper. Don Cooper. Jamie Cooper. NOBODY with the real name COOPER was involved even remotely with the COOPER hijacking. DAN COOPER was a comic book pilot character from Canadian comics. This is beyond the pale, er puke pail. Get serious. (get serious) Seems that question has been presented to you many times over! I have an old toilet in my back yard with a sign on it "Bob Knoss Files" when you open the lid, there is a bunch of crap in it! I have brought valid points to a story that Bruce is following up on an would appreciate no further remarks from you! Thank You"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30293 January 31, 2012 I’m already seeing some ‘knee jerk’ answers which don’t appear attributed or thought through. Flight 305 had a designator…. what was Bohan’s Continental, nom de sky? 307, 782, 783? If one knows the airfield was closed they must know this long discussed flight number, come on. This paradox of knowing some things to such painful (thing prostate check) detail then brushing off others is amazing. Hey, maybe someone can claim to be a college professor….. cuz that makes what they say true, so that would fix these inconsistencies which are so hated, reviled and un-liked. Plus ‘Flight Whatchamacallit’ was four minutes behind Flight 305. Four minutes. Hmmm….. how could they know that a Continental flight was four minutes behind Flight 305 when there is such ambiguity about the very location of 305? Four minutes at 305’s velocity is 12 miles of separation and there have been claims of 305 being off centerline a greater distance than 12 miles. Gosh, could people be data mining or…. Gasp!.... making things up as they go? Nawww…….. not on this thread. I gotta believe if a person who has a pet theory and spent time searching the woods and is a ‘Cooper fan’ would supply nothing but unfiltered, dry data. Especially if their data matched a pre-plotted curve they have in a death grip. I’ll just keep fishing, steering and manipulating while being virtuous and stuff. Another recap…… a Continental pilot was on a flight with no name and exactly four minutes behind Flight 305 which has an unknown location and flying through an unreported wind anomaly in terrible weather according to his wife who recalls this on a cold call, because her husband was a ‘Cooper fan’ so this single data point can be used to trump all existing data. Sounds like par for the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #30294 January 31, 2012 QuoteThere is some relationship between the forecast info from Carr (that Georger recently posted) and information Carr had posted a couple of times about winds (for estimating drift under canopy). The most significant fact here is that the altitudes for which Carr posted wind info are not among the altitudes shown in the weather bureau winds aloft forecast. This means Carr did not get his info from a winds aloft forecast. Carr stated winds at surface, 2K', 5K' and 7K'. The winds aloft forecasts have entries for 3K', 6K' and 9K'. Hopefully his info was from actual observations rather than forecast. In one of his posts, Carr related his numbers to Orchard, WA. So there is potential for a little difference between his numbers and the weather service reports because of spacial separation. And there is the 15 minutes or so of time difference, which we can account for approximately. The weather service info from the reports Georger posted, plus that from Weather Underground, indicate that PDX wind speed rose steeply between 7pm and 8pm. The 9pm report indicates even a bit more increase. So the wind speed at the surface at 8:15 would have been a bit more than 10kt. Carr said 15kt at the surface. Is this a reasonable difference considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Would the wind speed at PDX be a bit lower than out on the plain because of PDX being down in the river bed? The weather service info indicates that wind direction changed from 270° (W) at 8pm to 190° (almost S) at 9pm. Interpolating between the two would give 250° at 8:15. Carr said 235°. Again, not quite the same, but in the same ball park. Is this reasonable considering the spacial separation and associated geography? Finally, the winds aloft forecast for 3K', 6K' and 9K' all indicate wind direction of 260° while Carr's post said 235°, 230° and 225° for 2K', 5K' and 7K' (around 230° at all levels) and about the same at the surface. This is a bit of difference but remember that there was spacial separation, time separation, and the weather bureau data is only a forecast, not actuals. But the data Carr posted was basically constant at all altitudes, and so was the data for the forecasts. The comparison for wind speed is a bit different. The weather bureau forecast wind speeds progressed steadily with increasing altitude. 10kt, 18kt and 26kt at 3K', 6K' and 9K'. I've thought it odd that Carr's data had the speed rise from 20 to 25 and then drop back to 20 at 7K'. Is such a pattern reasonable? Oh, yeah: The kinder, gentler, Hominid Hominid, There is a map on Sluggo's web page describing the first guess at where Cooper jumped and his possible landing area. A write-up accompanies this map and states that the weather information used in compiling the map was provided by the "Redacted" NWA Meteorology Chief. From this map and write-up an estimate can be made of the winds and their direction that was used in that exercise. But did the NWA weather people have access to information other than that provided by the FAA and National Weather Service? No, they did not. If anyone disagrees with this, then state where that information came from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30295 January 31, 2012 Of course Intelligent Design is the answer to any Darwinian theory where observable data sets are replaced with blind faith fueled by raw ego. The answer is X, and X is correct, because I say so. Oh sure there are those moments of false collaboration but they will only survive as long as everyone follows the same hymnal at the same time. Could there be a Darwinian profile associated with Intelligent Design? The irony would be exquisite and tragic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #30296 January 31, 2012 Quote Get serious. Thank You Show ANY relevance to any Cooper and I will shut up FOREVER! Nothing valid exists because it did not happen. Granted there are many mental cases out there that have been told stories by Cooper wannabes with the Cooper name.. Kinda natural I guess. Kinda like Jesse James relatives, etc. Why, I'm related to a president, just like most of you. Cousin of my gramma, he was. Fat, incompetent, lazy. You know the one. He was probably related to a Cooper, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30297 January 31, 2012 Good find Mr. Farflung. I don't see that flight 307 arriving at Seattle, so it must have originated there. The plane could have been setting there for hours before scheduled takeoff (6:10pm). I can't imagine that the airport would have been shut down much (if any) before 305 landed, like during all that time it was circling around before landing. It landed a bit before 6pm. A flight that had planned to leave at 6:10 could easily have gotten caught by the airport being closed. The transcript has about 19.5 pages about [edit: the first taped hour of] communications between flight 305 and ground control. All the fiasco about refuelling and getting the passengers away from the plane. About a quarter of the way through is the first reference to any closure. It was that the south 3500' (apx 20 percent) of the "other" 16 was closed. Another quarter of the way through the transcript there was more definite about closure. "The airport's closed at this time." Then, "305 the airport's closed and we have planes holding and we need to get a few off." Ground control wanted "to put an unlighted vehicle on each side of one six left" to make sure the runway was kept clear. There must have been a bit of backup. Shortly then, probably "Al" Lee said "I'm standing here now looking straight across towards our hangar and Alaska's. They're pumping out here right now." I think this means that planes were starting to leave. Just estimating from the portion of the transcript, it appears that there was closure up until around 6:30pm. It's likely that Continental would not have started boarding passengers until the closure was lifted since they would have no idea how long the closure could last. I'd guess that it would be likely that the flight 307 would have gotten off around 7pm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30298 January 31, 2012 QuoteBut did the NWA weather people have access to information other than that provided by the FAA and National Weather Service? No, they did not. If anyone disagrees with this, then state where that information came from. A key part of the turbulence plot system NWA had already developed (and fielded) was the acquisition of info regarding at least the more extreme weather directly from weather stations. Sowa arranged this to get info earlier so it could be more useful for hazard warnings. I haven't seen any specifics about what this advance info was. Point is, it came from weather bureau and FAA stations, but not via the "normal" disemination system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #30299 January 31, 2012 Quote Good find Mr. Farflung. I don't see that flight 307 arriving at Seattle, so it must have originated there. The plane could have been setting there for hours before scheduled takeoff (6:10pm). I can't imagine that the airport would have been shut down much (if any) before 305 landed, like during all that time it was circling around before landing. It landed a bit before 6pm. A flight that had planned to leave at 6:10 could easily have gotten caught by the airport being closed. The transcript has about 19.5 pages about communications between flight 305 and ground control. All the fiasco about refuelling and getting the passengers away from the plane. About a quarter of the way through is the first reference to any closure. It was that the south 3500' (apx 20 percent) of the "other" 16 was closed. Another quarter of the way through the transcript there was more definite about closure. "The airport's closed at this time." Then, "305 the airport's closed and we have planes holding and we need to get a few off." Ground control wanted "to put an unlighted vehicle on each side of one six left" to make sure the runway was kept clear. There must have been a bit of backup. Shortly then, probably "Al" Lee said "I'm standing here now looking straight across towards our hangar and Alaska's. They're pumping out here right now." I think this means that planes were starting to leave. Just estimating from the portion of the transcript, it appears that there was closure up until around 6:30pm. It's likely that Continental would not have started boarding passengers until the closure was lifted since they would have no idea how long the closure could last. I'd guess that it would be likely that the flight 307 would have gotten off around 7pm. The hijacked airliner didn't take off until 7:36 PM PST (according to the FBI notes). Presumably, Bohan would not have taken off prior to about 7:40 PM PST. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #30300 January 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteBut did the NWA weather people have access to information other than that provided by the FAA and National Weather Service? No, they did not. If anyone disagrees with this, then state where that information came from. A key part of the turbulence plot system NWA had already developed (and fielded) was the acquisition of info regarding at least the more extreme weather directly from weather stations. Sowa arranged this to get info earlier so it could be more useful for hazard warnings. I haven't seen any specifics about what this advance info was. Point is, it came from weather bureau and FAA stations, but not via the "normal" disemination system. If the possibility of extreme weather suddenly surfaced, it would have been transmitted through all available means including sequence reports, voice messages on the VORTAC navigation system, and probably controller to pilot communications on the ATC system. Is there any evidence that this was done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
