Hominid 0 #30376 February 4, 2012 Thanks. I haven't digested it yet, but it looks like it will be helpful. Robert99, Do you think that someone flying thru steady rain would be apprehensive about whether or not hail might be next? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #30377 February 4, 2012 Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvTk5AQVYas&feature=related This film? Matt No, the one about Cooper, not McCoy. This one shows Henry Selick as McCoy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30378 February 4, 2012 Quote http://genebenson.com/articles/rain_hf.htm Plus it can sometimes knock the paint off a bug smasher... are you saying any of this was a factor in flight 305 ? These are conditions professional pilots (and their aircraft) encounter all the time. Planes are not made of tissue paper and balsa, and neither are the pilots. 305 was not a Curtis Jenny flying through a Kansas tornado being piloted by an internet Queen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30379 February 4, 2012 QuoteThanks. I haven't digested it yet, but it looks like it will be helpful. Robert99, Do you think that someone flying thru steady rain would be apprehensive about whether or not hail might be next? Where is any interview (and there are many!) of Mr. Rataczak where he states the weather was a determining factor in any aspect of the Cooper case? Until some concrete example of bad weather surfaces as a 'determining factor' in this case, then it is heresay and cultural goggles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #30380 February 4, 2012 QuoteThanks Robert99. I assume you mean the copy of a google earth view. Hominid - be aware there are 2 different maps - the old one showing a map designation as it was supposed to exist. Then someone comes up in the thread and claimed this designation was incorrect. It was a map designation and now these guys are claiming the map used originally was incorrect because of this so called designation. I have had surgery and unable to access my maps. Felt this needed to be shared with you. The designation they used caused the flight path to shift lower and to the West. It is in the thread. BE SURE you USE THE REAL map of the time. This change the guys claimed was NOT a common factor in 1971. This is all I can tell you - but, these guys KNOW what I am talking about. Their motive was to shift the flight path West of Portland and the curves of the flight lower. I forgot who FORCED the issue Whoever required the flight be shifted issue and to make the flight West of Portland and not East of Portland as the co-pilot told me. The co-pilot told me the flight went over the Columbia EAST of Portand near the Trout airpstrip. The flight skirted Portland to the EAST - near CAMAS. I cannot access my maps because they are "buried" beneath multiple files to heavy for me to get to. Hopefully someone in the thread will be honest enough to share with you the technical term and the individual who introduce the alternate version...perhaps this was done to PROVE the FBI version of the how the money got to Tina's bar. I would like for you to IGNORE the money find - because I know the money was put there at a later date. Do NOT let the money find be reflected in your recreation of the flight path - YOU ARE HONEST. Do this the way you have done everything else - use the old maps the pilots used and forget the money find. Don't let these guys influence you. The designation the thread shifted to was NOT commonly used by the pilots in 1971. The co-pilot still has the flight maps he used and it is NOT as others have tried to FORCE the flight to. In too much pain to look this up and I have exceeded my sitting time.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30381 February 4, 2012 QuoteWhere is any interview (and there are many!) of Mr. Rataczak where he states the weather was a determining factor in any aspect of the Cooper case? Until some concrete example of bad weather surfaces as a 'determining factor' in this case, then it is heresay and cultural goggles. The discussion is not about 305. It relates to perceptions of "witnesses" about weather that night. Didn't you want to understand the accounts that don't agree with weather bureau data? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30382 February 4, 2012 Thanks Jo. Not to worry. In my analyses I don't use anything someone else has done to basic, original evidence. Relying on someone else's work can get you going toward false conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #30383 February 4, 2012 Quote Quote http://genebenson.com/articles/rain_hf.htm Plus it can sometimes knock the paint off a bug smasher... And if you encounter hail, it can bash in the leading edges of your wings and stabilizers. In other words, the airframe is now junk. Trust me... you have not lived till you are in freefall with the same stuff hitting your face at 130 MPH.... that will make your day kinda interesting. Even rain drops hurt like hell in freefall... I mean you are hitting all the pointy ends since you are going down so fast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hominid 0 #30384 February 4, 2012 Yeah, and heaven help you if they've frozen! Ouch! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #30385 February 4, 2012 Quote Quote http://genebenson.com/articles/rain_hf.htm Plus it can sometimes knock the paint off a bug smasher... are you saying any of this was a factor in flight 305 ? These are conditions professional pilots (and their aircraft) encounter all the time. Planes are not made of tissue paper and balsa, and neither are the pilots. 305 was not a Curtis Jenny flying through a Kansas tornado being piloted by an Internet Queen! Speakin' of Internet Queens...Did I SAY I wuz sayin' that? The post prior to that one asked a question about possible problems with rain & light aircraft...having owned a couple, thought Id point him in the right direction. And no some professional pilots aren't made of tissue paper and balsa...It's sugar & spice & everything NICE! (at least MINE is) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30386 February 4, 2012 And no some professional pilots aren't made of tissue paper and balsa...It's sugar & spice & everything NICE! (at least MINE is) I havent the faintest idea what you are saying; Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #30387 February 4, 2012 Quote And no some professional pilots aren't made of tissue paper and balsa...It's sugar & spice & everything NICE! (at least MINE is) I havent the faintest idea what you are saying; My wife, a real sweetie... is marathon runner, a dance instructor & a 767 Captain with 30,000 plus hrs of jet time...typed in 727, 747, 757, 767, & 777. After 20 years together, I have a pretty good idea what makes a professional pilot, but thanks for your input anyway... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30388 February 4, 2012 Exactly georger….. and you don’t have the faintest idea about a bunch of other stuff (beautiful women, success, humility). Know what a ‘bug smasher (bugsmasher)’ is? Know what a ‘Walter Mitty’ is? They represent the parlance of those who are in the ‘biz’ versus those who are too cool for school (shoe clerks). Please, have your specially selected (code for cabana boys) meteorologists analyze the weather based upon Bohan’s testimony which you have a bigger boner for than the cabana boys. The result WILL match the conclusion which you so desperately crave, over and over and over. Continue to ignore those who advise otherwise and keep the poorly hidden attack on data which is self evident. Gawd you’re cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30389 February 4, 2012 Quote Quote Where is any interview (and there are many!) of Mr. Rataczak where he states the weather was a determining factor in any aspect of the Cooper case? Until some concrete example of bad weather surfaces as a 'determining factor' in this case, then it is heresay and cultural goggles. The discussion is not about 305. It relates to perceptions of "witnesses" about weather that night. Didn't you want to understand the accounts that don't agree with weather bureau data? Shucks! Sometimes I do - sometimes I dont. It all depends on the weather, and my mood. Didn't you want to understand the accounts that don't agree with weather bureau data? Is this a counseling session? Call me old fashioned but I think if you want to understand these stories, you need to interview the people in addition to outside data. That would be the normal approach vs sitting here and just presuming Dona and the others are idiots or liars (as Robert99 contended), because for one thing you need to know how Dona may be in error - not just that she is (or may be) in error apriori, if she is. Why are all of you complicating this so much? Why are we even discussing this! ? Otherewise you might as well skip all the steps and simply apply some model of hysteria - and apply that to the whole case; like Farfluing and Blevins do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30390 February 4, 2012 Quote Some of you folks who post here must be popular, 'cause your identities here at Dropzone are being used to post comments on a D.B. Cooper article. Georger...author Geoff Gray...Bob Knoss...Marla Cooper (her comment's probably real) and even Yours Truly. I wouldn't put up with that. You can bet your bottom dollar that when someone represents themselves as ME, I would say something about it. Unless you don't mind having words stuffed into your mouth by someone else, with your name on them... In that case, I hope they mis-represent you all over the Internet. You would deserve it. It's either you care that people do this to you, or you should own up to your comments and say they ARE yours. Just a thought. This is your problemo - and very old news. Why are you returning to this, old posts on some website back in 2011 ! There isnt anything NEW there, or anything under my name, as you claim. You must be stuck in a timewarp. How many times are you going to keep posting this old link and sensationalising it, bringing this up over and over and over again? Most of the posts there are by you, apparently talking to yourself?. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30391 February 4, 2012 You are officially in a position where you have NOTHING left, but to lose georger. Knock it off and issue a mea culpa for you recent BS and take the century off to reflect on a lifetime of the same. You have promoted yourself to some plane which can only be achieved through hubris, luck and/or inheritance which you have misidentified as skill. Go ahead and check the theory, you will see what I’m talking about. I knew a psychic (a military flight instructor) who predicted that a ‘student’ would kill himself and others, but his ‘celebrity’ allowed him a pass on a check ride (twice)……. He (the flight instructor) was ultimately proved correct (silently). He will be buried with that experience being ignored. I know why this crap happens and the answer is above your bathroom sink, go look. You are as irrelevant today as you were on your first comment on this and any thread. Shame on you for trying the same type of deception more than once, shame on you, so called (by you) professor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30392 February 4, 2012 This is an edit for my above comment. Sorry about this (extremely unusual for me): Nothing has changed, so you won’t see an edit time stamp on the bottom of this posting like most of georger’s; because I’m not a coward and don’t say things I want to change minutes later. I’m a man.... always been one. Go ahead and look at what percentage of georger’s comments are edited after the fact. Why? He didn’t mean to confess his desires for the company of family members? Company being code for…. well…. you know. He said something even less intelligent than the edited version (hard to believe, but frequent)? Decide for yourself. Arrogant, self important, megalomaniac and ‘Norman Bates-ian’ are but a few of the adjectives which fit perfectly into the puzzle which fancies himself as heroic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30393 February 4, 2012 QuoteThis is an edit for my above comment. Sorry about this (extremely unusual for me): Nothing has changed, so you won’t see an edit time stamp on the bottom of this posting like most of georger’s; because I’m not a coward and don’t say things I want to change minutes later. I’m a man.... always been one. Go ahead and look at what percentage of georger’s comments are edited after the fact. Why? He didn’t mean to confess his desires for the company of family members? Company being code for…. well…. you know. He said something even less intelligent than the edited version (hard to believe, but frequent)? Decide for yourself. Arrogant, self important, megalomaniac and ‘Norman Bates-ian’ are but a few of the adjectives which fit perfectly into the puzzle which fancies himself as heroic. Quade - do we have to put up with this insanity? Complaint filed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #30394 February 4, 2012 Look whose feelings are hurt. You’re so butch. Complaint not filed. I’m a man. Not a complaint filer or serial comment editor denier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #30395 February 4, 2012 Quade - do we have to put up with this insanity? Quote YOU'RE askin' HIM about putting up with insanity ...in THIS thread?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #30396 February 4, 2012 Quote Quade - do we have to put up with this insanity? Quote YOU'RE askin' HIM about putting up with insanity ...in THIS thread?! You've just done a mitzvah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #30397 February 4, 2012 Quote It's either you care that people do this to you, or you should own up to your comments and say they ARE yours. Just a thought. Not funny, Robert. Find a hobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hangdiver 1 #30398 February 4, 2012 Well...everyone thinks their dad...uncle...brother...mother...was Cooper... and the weather was suicidal... I've actually had to knock 2 inches of ice off the step and strut to climb out in my camera position for a tandem video in the middle of December. I still have the video...somewhere...with "Captain Jack" flying that souped up little Cessna...coming out of the sky like a fucking anvil...with me on the step...tandem in the door..."Captain Jack" screaming ..."get the fuck out"!!!... I can still see it in my minds eye..."Captain Jack"...Screaming...pullin his ball cap tight with his right hand before slamming the throttle to the firewall... He had to fly around for 30 minutes to get the ice to melt so he could land... But guess what...???... We all survived the freefall...through icing conditions... Painful...yes...fatal...no... Okay...here's some pics of "Cooper Country..." and that's all for this post... hangdiver "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hangdiver 1 #30399 February 4, 2012 Here's some more... anyone here watch PBR...???... Ty Murray...ring a bell...???... I couldn't resist...the writing's on the wall...ha...ha... oh...by the way...the food is excellent... stop by and talk to the locals about Cooper while you eat and have a beer. Raz interviewed a few local gals about who would look out of place around Amboy...a guy in a suit or a guy in camo with a rifle...and who would they be more likely to stop and give a ride...???... Not the suit guy!!!...the guy dressed in camo with a rifle!!! Well whadya know...Cooper didn't dress for the occasion I guess... hangdiver "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #30400 February 4, 2012 QuoteThanks. I haven't digested it yet, but it looks like it will be helpful. Robert99, Do you think that someone flying thru steady rain would be apprehensive about whether or not hail might be next? Hominid, The short answer is "yes". Keeping in mind that the discussion here refers only to the lower end of general aviation aircraft (or "private" aircraft), I would NOT recommend intentionally flying into moderate rain or maybe any rain at all. First, the pilot should be rated for instrument flight, the airplane should have a heated pitot-static system, full IFR instrumentation, and avionics suitable for the flight assuming that it is in controlled airspace. Second, if the airplane is going to be flown in bad weather routinely, it should also have a weather radar system and thought should be given to the possible need for anti-icing equipment. But don't under-estimate Mother Nature. Hail can come from much, much higher altitudes even though the temperature at the airplane's level is above freezing. Moderate rain on the canopy usually means that you can't see forward and don't have a horizontal reference except for your instruments. In short, in my humble opinion, any pilot interested in weather flying (i.e., other than blue skies) should get an instrument rating and have an instrument rated instructor pilot with him during his first several flights into actual IFR weather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
