DB Cooper

[Hominid 0]

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Here is a link to the 'brought money on' claim -

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-
area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

Quote: The plane then landed and taxied to a
remote part of the airport. According to Almstad, a
refueling truck pulled up, along with a bus, and
people came on board.

“Then a guy, I it was a man, came walking down the
aisle with a white sack. To me, it looked like a pillow
slip, and it had all these jagged points in it. And I
remember the thought I had, that looks like bricks
in it, or a bag of money, I thought,” Almstad said."

So according to Almstad, Tina did not bring the
money on, and it came on before the passengers
were off.

I think it likely that Almstad actually said, "I think it was a man,". Note that the statement is nonsense as it stands. The reporter or typist or typesetter probably just left out a word. I think, Almstad was saying (in effect) that he couldn't tell whether it was a man or a woman he saw carrying the bag.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Here is a link to the 'brought money on' claim -

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-
area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

Quote: The plane then landed and taxied to a
remote part of the airport. According to Almstad, a
refueling truck pulled up, along with a bus, and
people came on board.

“Then a guy, I it was a man, came walking down the
aisle with a white sack. To me, it looked like a pillow
slip, and it had all these jagged points in it. And I
remember the thought I had, that looks like bricks
in it, or a bag of money, I thought,” Almstad said."

So according to Almstad, Tina did not bring the
money on, and it came on before the passengers
were off.

I think it likely that Almstad actually said, "I think it was a man,". Note that the statement is nonsense as it stands. The reporter or typist or typesetter probably just left out a word. I think, Almstad was saying (in effect) that he couldn't tell whether it was a man or a woman he saw carrying the bag.

I saw that missprint (??) also.
I cant mind meld with it -

[sailshaw 0]

Farflung:

You say:
Oh no!!!
"I found another source for Cooper’s seat, what Oh what, is one to do? Cooper was in seat 18C, an aisle seat, according to living witness and former FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach. Here you can see for yourself from (13:55 – 14:05):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7taFf09hofI"

____________________________________________________


I believe the info from Ralph H. is correct. DB sat in seat 18C (an aisle seat on the port side) when he gave the Flight Attendant the note. However, when on the flight to "Mexico" he sat in 18E with Tina in 18F starboard side. With no other passengers in the back of the plane, he had his choice of seats. By sitting were he did he was not an easy target for FBI snipers outside the plane (Tina was in between he and the outside and pinned in place).

Bob
sailshaw

[Hominid 0]

The Boeing data for -100 series 727s indicates that there was a window the next row forward. One handy thing about the row from a hijacker's point of view is that the seat position just aft of the last window was aft of the front end of the engine on the side.

I don't understand why you think the photo is not like the seating plan you posted. Looks to me like the one that had 18 rows. Maybe it's that you're seeing 2 seats in the photo. I think it is 3. I would bet a little money that the photo was among those taken during the re-enactment flight.

Quote

We have been saying Cooper sat is 18C. Most of the
socalled official publications and the FBI including
Larry Carr have been saying, 18C.

Tom Kaye says it was 18E. based on FBI 302's he
has read !

Quote:

"2. Cooper sat in seat 18E (Fig. 1), all the way in the back on the right side of the plane. According to the FBI 302's, the black tie was found on his seat cushion - 18E."

Kaye even has a photo of the seat - notice there is
no window next to his seat as per allegations Cooper
moved over to look out "his" window' while on the
ground at SEA? Must have been some other window
because there is no window close to his seat, on his
side of the plane. And right side of the plane now
means 'right' looking forward from the back, which
contradicts another socalled official account.

The photo of his seat is not like the seating plan
I previously posted - notice the number 18 on the
AC dispenser just above the seat which identifies the
row of these two seats ...

I assume the photo of seat 18E Tom has put up on
his website is an FBI photo?

Quote

[Hominid 0]

I groaned when I first saw Himmelsbach identify the seat on that Decoded episode. Shows that both he and the Decoded bunch were clueless that there were many different "727s" with many different seating arrangements. One can't just go on a 727 and expect that the flight 305 727 was the same. The big tip-off of the difference is that the seat 18C H. identified was not in the last row of seats.

[Farflung 0]

I’m willing to give an individual some latitude regarding saying a person was a ‘guy’ or thinking the person was a ‘man’. But there are limits which strain the boundaries of credibility and hunkyness, which must never be violated. Even in situations of extreme duress which may result in the cause and circumstance of your own demise. That’s just the way it is for manly, men.

If Tina was in fact the person to carry the money and chutes on board the plane, then I have to suspend some disbelief here. That is, if this same person is expected to ‘enhance’ any description of DB in seat 18C through 18E.

I’m a man. There, I said it. I have spent my life being distracted, vexed and otherwise enchanted by the opposite sex and am blissfully aware of this. But not all women are created equal. No, no. Some are so unequal as to be confused with a man or so similar in appearance, as to spark apathy amongst those who actually are men. But how is one able to measure such an attribute?

Enter my ‘Scale of Femininity’ which utterly removes any doubt, as to when a man may enter a world of gender ambiguity and where it is impossible to exist or go un-noticed. This is a non-linear measure with an exponential curve and is of such value to ‘man’kind, that I have generously donated this instrument to the Public Domain. You’re welcome. I just give and give annnnd give.

I think it’s only fair to say that Tina, with her elfin features, petite stature, dainty hands, blonde hair, short dress, doe-like eyes, pouting lips, delicate perfume, alabaster skin, whimsical brow and stunning legs, would not fall into the category of ‘guy’ or thinking it was a ‘man’. Never; simply never.

[smokin99 0]

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No one gives a damn about anything I say here, anyway...and I'm tired of doing basic research for same. You'll excuse my current 'tude on the matter.

I'm calling BS on this. Get a good night's sleep Robert.
#1. Having a google alert set to DB Cooper is hardly doing research, and .... Not that it means anything ... but the article on this witness was actually posted to the dropzone on October 5 when we were talking about witness statements. I know you didn't read the post

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

lol @ FF's scientific approach. I think you've just made a valuable contribution to the study of the evolution of woman-mankind. Darwin, move over.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 244]

Quote

Farflung:

You say:
Oh no!!!
"I found another source for Cooper’s seat, what Oh what, is one to do? Cooper was in seat 18C, an aisle seat, according to living witness and former FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach. Here you can see for yourself from (13:55 – 14:05):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7taFf09hofI"

____________________________________________________


I believe the info from Ralph H. is correct. DB sat in seat 18C (an aisle seat on the port side) when he gave the Flight Attendant the note. However, when on the flight to "Mexico" he sat in 18E with Tina in 18F starboard side. With no other passengers in the back of the plane, he had his choice of seats. By sitting were he did he was not an easy target for FBI snipers outside the plane (Tina was in between he and the outside and pinned in place).

Bob
sailshaw

That is very plausible imo.

[mrshutter45 21]

He does say he was one row behind Cooper? something is going on with his statement!


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

Quote

The Boeing data for -100 series 727s indicates that there was a window the next row forward. One handy thing about the row from a hijacker's point of view is that the seat position just aft of the last window was aft of the front end of the engine on the side.

I don't understand why you think the photo is not like the seating plan you posted. Looks to me like the one that had 18 rows. Maybe it's that you're seeing 2 seats in the photo. I think it is 3. I would bet a little money that the photo was among those taken during the re-enactment flight.

Sluggo says the NWA 727-51 is a 727-100. So I
guess the seating chart I posted would apply.
I guess. I dont know anything about thes aircraft.

One reson I thought Kaye's photo shows a seat
at the very back of the aircraft, in a last row of
seats?, is because behind the seat with the #6
sticker on it, is a space with a door, a closet or lav,
but no more seats show behind that row of seats?

I guess there could be more seats behind that
door space ???? But I assume this seats are at the
back of the plane.

And I definately see only two seats -not three in
the row. There is more than enough space in the
photo for another seat, if one was there, in a row of
three seats as per the 727-100 seating plan ???

Again: Ckrets evidence location profile is as follows:

"tie laying in seat 18E - empty belly container laying on the floor in front of 18D - unaltered backpack (Pioneer) sitting in seat 18B -pink chute laying across seats 17c and 17b - "

Three items found in row 18 at 18B, D, and E. So it
looks as if there was activity in and around the
18B-E area. Ckret got his info from the 302's, just
like Kaye. Unlike Kaye, however, just because
evidence was found in seats 18D, 18B, 17C and 17B,
Ckret does not assume or say Cooper sat in any of
these seats at any time, even if he did.

My supposition is Cooper took off the tie as he was
preparing to put on a chute, in the same area. But
mine is just a guess, not a statement of fact.

[georger 244]

If the money delivery claim by Almstad is so far off, and he has deliberately lied about it (even if he WAS on the flight) then using him as a possible witness to ID the hijacker from pictures now is also shaky. You know how it is. Mistakes are understandable, and forgivable maybe. But an outright lie makes anything else you say difficult to believe. Like this, sort of:

Quote

Several have talked to Almstad. All decribe a nice
gentleman willing to help but not even certain at
first what city he boarded the plane at, or that one
stew had dark hair vs another being a blond...
and the like. Then later as the conversations
developed details came back gradually ...

Sad to say - the 'dark haired person could have
been a man or a woman' ...

Not the certainty that JT has described.

• Quote

[georger 244]

Quote

He does say he was one row behind Cooper? something is going on with his statement!


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

You do have to be behind somebody to have
them "looked back at me"...

It sounds to me as if you have not talked to this
gentleman personally.

You cannot trust anything third partes say!

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

The Boeing data for -100 series 727s indicates that there was a window the next row forward. One handy thing about the row from a hijacker's point of view is that the seat position just aft of the last window was aft of the front end of the engine on the side.

I don't understand why you think the photo is not like the seating plan you posted. Looks to me like the one that had 18 rows. Maybe it's that you're seeing 2 seats in the photo. I think it is 3. I would bet a little money that the photo was among those taken during the re-enactment flight.

Sluggo says the NWA 727-51 is a 727-100. So I
guess the seating chart I posted would apply.
I guess. I dont know anything about thes aircraft.

One reson I thought Kaye's photo shows a seat
at the very back of the aircraft, in a last row of
seats?, is because behind the seat with the #6
sticker on it, is a space with a door, a closet or lav,
but no more seats show behind that row of seats?

I guess there could be more seats behind that
door space ???? But I assume this seats are at the
back of the plane.

And I definately see only two seats -not three in
the row. There is more than enough space in the
photo for another seat, if one was there, in a row of
three seats as per the 727-100 seating plan ???

There are THREE seats showing in that photograph. Note the three towels, or whatever they are, covering the tops of the seats and judge how wide each seat is from the towels.

[georger 244]

There are THREE seats showing in that photograph. Note the three towels, or whatever they are, covering the tops of the seats and judge how wide each seat is from the towels.

[mrshutter45 21]

here is a 3D model of a 727-100

Source http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=48473&page=2

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

Quote

here is a 3D model of a 727-100

and here are some cabin dimensions -

[Hominid 0]

A VERY INACCURATE model.

[BruceSmith 3]

I think the notion of asking passengers take a look at pictures of the suspects is a great idea. Go, Jerry!

Along those lines, I've developed a photo gallery of the leading suspects, confessees, and other notables.

In addition, I have gathered all the composites that I can find. Thanks to all for your consent.

Thanks, Airtwardo, for helping me to get the clicky to work.


http://themountainnewswa.net/2012/02/23/suspects-in-the-db-cooper-skyjacking-sketches-pictures-and-comparisons/#more-4955

[airtwardo 7]

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I think the notion of asking passengers take a look at pictures of the suspects is a great idea. Go, Jerry!

Along those lines, I've developed a photo gallery of the leading suspects, confessees, and other notables.

In addition, I have gathered all the composites that I can find. Thanks to all for your consent.

Again, I can't get the clicky to work.


http://themountainnewswa.net/2012/02/23/suspects-in-the-db-cooper-skyjacking-sketches-pictures-and-comparisons/#more-4955

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Hominid 0]

I'm sure it had to be at the aft end of the cabin. Anywhere forward that would have something like a "room" (galley, etc.) behind a seat would have to have seat row number much less than "18."

Quote

One reson I thought Kaye's photo shows a seat
at the very back of the aircraft, in a last row of
seats?, is because behind the seat with the #6
sticker on it, is a space with a door, a closet or lav,
but no more seats show behind that row of seats?

I guess there could be more seats behind that
door space ???? But I assume this seats are at the
back of the plane.

[BruceSmith 3]

I believe the info from Ralph H. is correct. DB sat in seat 18C (an aisle seat on the port side) when he gave the Flight Attendant the note. However, when on the flight to "Mexico" he sat in 18E with Tina in 18F starboard side. With no other passengers in the back of the plane, he had his choice of seats. By sitting were he did he was not an easy target for FBI snipers outside the plane (Tina was in between he and the outside and pinned in place).

Bob
sailshaw

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Again, I can't get the clicky to work.

The easiest way to do it is just to highlight the entire url then click on the url button. Either way works. This way folks can see where the link is going to without having to hover over it.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Again, I can't get the clicky to work.

The easiest way to do it is just to highlight the entire url then click on the url button. Either way works. This way folks can see where the link is going to without having to hover over it.

Smokin, what url button? Where?

[BruceSmith 3]

Here's the latest on passengers:

General consensus is 37 passengers including DB Cooper. That means 36 left the plane.

Sluggo, Galen, and others.

There are a few folks weighing in with 38, too!

One of the big questions are the identities of the MacPherson clan. So far I have a Scott, Steve and Bill, composing a possible father, son, uncle and nephew.

In addition, Jo says there was a smokejumper named Mr. Loughton who got on in Missoula. McShutter, the DZ's latest whiz-kid researcher has given me an address and phone number of a guy matching the available data to see if he was aboard 305.

Assuming two MacPhersons/McPhersons and no Loughton, there are 36 plus Danny Boy.

So, let's see - this month we haven't come to any agreement on the number of passengers, their names, what seats they were in, and the wind and rain or the lack thereof. Am I missing anything?

Oh, gender of the bag o' money carrier.

Nevertheless, I remain optimistic about solving the case. (smile).