DB Cooper

[georger 244]

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[No need to take my word for it.

THANK GOD NOBODY DOES!! Truth talks, bullshit walks.
You have developed a standing, or I guess, a sitting. It is the principle of the thing. A no-win situation. Right? There is a difference between a public opinion and preaching to the Crew.

And what of Georf Gray, Tom Kay, and Carol
Abraczinakis ... ? any words of wisdom for their
work ? Did Cooper model himself after the comic
as Carol Abraczinakis says? You know Carol backed
Marla, publically at the symposium. How did titanium
get on the tie?

[BobKnoss 0]

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[No need to take my word for it.

THANK GOD NOBODY DOES!! Truth talks, bullshit walks.
You have developed a standing, or I guess, a sitting. It is the principle of the thing. A no-win situation. Right? There is a difference between a public opinion and preaching to the Crew.

And what of Georf Gray, Tom Kay, and Carol
Abraczinakis ... ? any words of wisdom for their
work ? Did Cooper model himself after the comic
as Carol Abraczinakis says? You know Carol backed
Marla, publically at the symposium. How did titanium
get on the tie?

Gray is aware of the truth, just can't print it. He printed what was legal and salable. Kay is uninformed and guessing. Cooper was not the comic buff, McCoy was. I heard nothing of any titanium, but would surmise that it was a component of the make-up that Duane used. Check the ingredients of military light green camouflage creme. You'll probably find it there as Tio2. He mixed that with regular skin colored make-up. Happy to answer your questions. Please ask some more intelligent questions?

[Farflung 0]

This is what I thought a forum thread would produce in an environment free of politics, ego and bias. This may just be trivia and not have a ‘damn thing to do with Cooper’ but what georger and mrshutter45 smoked out over the last few days was not done in the previous 40 years. I think that is impressive. If it was so easy then one of the other self proclaimed experts could have sounded off.

Some fashion accessory with previous ties to secret Masonic-y organizations, religious groups or unique construction has been analyzed in an open source environment and linked with a likely group of manufacturers. One of which has ceased to exist in 1971 (of course). This may not point to who Cooper is, but it sure identifies what weak associations can be made from neckties, clasps, matches and cigarettes. In spite of the testimony of several individuals who are cock sure of the origin of the Cooper tie clasp. Puuullllllllleeeeeease.

You have Bernie’s sister, who isn’t batshit crazy and barely knew Kenney in the month or two she had moved to the area before the crime that identified the clasp. She had a Bible in plain sight which oddly appears to have buttressed her statement while the dozens of milk bottles, filled with urine went unnoticed.

Don’t forget McCoy’s mother in law AND his sister in law (two living witnesses beats Bernie’s sister) who stated with less hesitation than Dawn J (her real name), that the clasp was in fact, Richard McCoy’s. So it’s only fair to remove Dawn J’s (her real name) testimony as being thoroughly impeached on the grounds of unprejudiced assclownery. Plus the milk bottle thing.

I personally had hoped that his odd little item would ultimately be traced to the Schmegegge Tie Accessory Company of Muleshoe, AR where production never went past the prototyping phase. When the company closed in 1971 a disenchanted employee, who looked like Cooper vanished taking the only box of tie clasps produced. His employment records are searched and it is discovered that he has been unaccounted for since 1971 but some fingerprints are found on his W4, which match those on file with the FBI. The case is ultimately solved and while quietly reflecting on my heroic discovery, a gentle knock is heard at my front door. I open it and recognize Tina with a fifth of bourbon, an impish smile and hear her say she wants to thank me personally for identifying Cooper. Well, I guess the odds of this happening are now somewhat lower. That’s just great.

Now it appears that the tie clasp was not produced in the tens of thousands but may have been hundreds of thousands as the data (aka evidence) indicates. I could keep trying to manhandle the information georger and mrshutter45 discovered into fitting the Schmegegge scenario outlined or accept the data as true and of high quality. Then simply move on to the next item which would compel Tina to knock at my door.

This exercise has also exposed the ludicrous nature of individual’s swearing they knew EXACTLY who owned the clasp in the FBI photo. It is desperate, absurd and ludicrous which will wick onto the credibility of those who continue to support such a claim. The very thought that hundreds of thousands of these clasps were produced and not one participant on this thread can recall seeing one, should be used to validate some claim of seeing ‘the clasp’ in a photo 40 years after the fact, as silly and delusional. My father wore a tie clip (yes clip) every day and owned exactly one. I could not recall the color or style even though I spent many years across the breakfast table seeing the thing. I guess I’m not too observant or….. very average and human in my observational skills. It would be one thing if the clasp had a skull and cross bones or the buxom chick sitting in profile logo which are often attached to trucker’s mud flaps but no such uniqueness was observed.

Therefore I’m going to accept this information at face value and scour the Cooper landscape for another item which may deliver Tina to my home, so she can personally thank me for being so hunky…… two or even three times.

[377 22]

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Carr said the same thing in his
radio interview shown at WIKI: 'If you knew
airline employees as I do, then you would
know none of them would ever do such
a thing.'

Oh really?

The crimes of airline employees range from deliberately crashing an airliner to stealing snacks.

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.K/k/katagiri-seiji.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-01/news/29967134_1_pilot-suicide-plane-musi-river

http://www.milwaukeecriminaldefenseblog.com/2012/01/airline-employee-in-milwaukee-arrested-accused-of-theft.shtml

Larry Carr should read these links.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[airtwardo 7]

...a gentle knock is heard at my front door. I open it and recognize Tina with a fifth of bourbon, an impish smile and hear her say she wants to thank me personally for identifying Cooper

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I'd double check that 'bourbon' isn't in a milk bottle when she shows up though...just sayin'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mrshutter45 21]

Eyewitness accounts have always been a problem and going back 40 years and remembering things is not that easy! Marla for example has a incredible amount of knowledge for someone to remember 40 years back! plus the age of only 8 is amazing to recall all of this.

This video shows how easy one perception is skewed! after viewing this you have to question anything these people seen 40 years ago! or even moments after! not that they are wrong but, we are based on the testimony of the accounts of only several people who seen Cooper, and as you know we have him from age 35,45 all the way up into his 50's with Black hair, or dark Brown hair etc etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-swqr96FWU

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

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Eyewitness accounts have always been a problem and going back 40 years and remembering things is not that easy! Marla for example has a incredible amount of knowledge for someone to remember 40 years back! plus the age of only 8 is amazing to recall all of this.

This video shows how easy one perception is skewed! after viewing this you have to question anything these people seen 40 years ago! or even moments after! not that they are wrong but, we are based on the testimony of the accounts of only several people who seen Cooper, and as you know we have him from age 35,45 all the way up into his 50's with Black hair, or dark Brown hair etc etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-swqr96FWU

There are exceptions to every example you can provide, such as the man who was escorted around Rome for a day, then painted a picture perfect panorama to the entire city. Or me, I'm the high school go-to-guy for names, people's cars, colors, what happened to who, etc., for two years ahead and two years back. Our graduating class was around 362 give or take. As close to a "photographic memory" as you get. Under post hypnotic suggestion this talent is compounded many fold. It is absolutely amazing as any expert will explain for you. Enquire and learn. You seem to be a very astute learner.

[Farflung 0]

Good video on what people see just after a few seconds. That’s one of the many reasons I insist on a crosscheck and a secondary source with some pretty obvious requirements. Like a relative vouching for what another relative says or a person repeating a story rather than being an eye-witness. Both examples are used on this thread by the bush league.

My favorite is using one technique in one situation then doing the exact opposite in another while appearing to be totally unaware of this process. Here’s an example:

Kenny Christiansen was too short, fat and bald with the wrong eye color compared to witness descriptions and the wanted poster. Answer: well eye witness descriptions are extremely unreliable with Cooper ranging from 14 inches to a quarter mile in height. The descriptions are all over the place so they don’t mean anything. That certainly answers that and is intellectually pure.

Kenny Christiansen’s tie clasp was identified by an eye witness, thirty seven years after seeing it once by a woman who had a Bible. Answer: well she is a solid eye witness because this supports my pre selected answer and I can add other things like how quickly she answered as an additional non sequitur. This certainly answers that incongruity and all you have to do is be an oblivious information whore with the cognitive abilities of a carrot. Because no one on this thread has noticed or at least pointed it out.

[377 22]

Farflung wrote

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all you have to do is be an oblivious information whore with the cognitive abilities of a carrot.

I thought carrots had excellent vision, at night, or something like that...

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Oblivious information whore

Do you have her phone number Farflung?

How could you all miss the obvious conclusion that the tie tac was custom milled from a pure titanium billet?

My Saturday jump plans got scrubbed by a broken King Air 200.
What a let down. All dressed up and nowhere to fall.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours sitting with some ‘hangar queen’ which was ‘parts plus four hours’ 377. Meaning that it would be four hours to install the widget after the widget showed up and we got to hang around till the item was replaced (5-8 hours later) THEN we could begin our official work day. Add that to a 16 hour flight and it made the $875, biweekly paycheck all the more sweet.

One thing to take home from a King Air that was AOG, is the knowledge that the DZ can afford to have a plane be AOG. So many things are easy to pencil whip or defer which turn into permanently deferred maintenance that it can get spooky on the ramp. Another dirty, filthy secret of the biz.

Better to drive home all dress up and nowhere to fall, than to be carried by six in a drop dead gorgeous suit.

[377 22]

Good points Farflung. One of our local DZs is facing a $664,000
FAA fine for some safety violations. Seems like they went way past due on some ADs dealing with frayed flight control cables and other items.

http://www.lodinews.com/news/article_d7c87eb9-e446-5bdf-9013-62c7ff83ddc5.html

I saw one of your former USAF mounts sitting on the ramp at an airshow. It had arrived a few hours earlier and was marking its territory with various fluid leaks. Some of the crew were sprinkling what looked like kitty litter on the pooled fluids and would periodically sweep it up in a dustpan. Sound familiar?

I heard from Sluggo. He is OK. I dont think he misses this part of the Cooper Vortex at all. I wonder what kind of rehab succeeded in curing the addiction?

And what became of Marla? Has she given up or is she still hoping to publish? She sure livened up the Portland Symposium.
The real mystery woman of the symposium was the lovely author Musika Farnsworth, who said little and revealed even less.

And Georger, I was there. I do not recall Carol Abraczinskas endorsing Marla's story. Carol's DB Cooper comic presentation was first rate and very entertaining. She only pointed out coincidences and drew no conclusions.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[MarkBennett 5]

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And Georger, I was there. I do not recall Carol Abraczinskas endorsing Marla's story. Carol's DB Cooper comic presentation was first rate and very entertaining. She only pointed out coincidences and drew no conclusions.

377

I do. At the end several of the presenters were on the stage and were asked who their favored suspect was. Carol said Marla.

I don't recall the others -- I think there were a couple Christenson. Jerry said Mel Wilson (He'll correct me if I misstate).

[MarkBennett 5]

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For 17 YRS now I have been but a voice in the wilderness as there was NO one there to hear me other than the wildlife.

Jo,
It might seem that way, but....

It was YOU who started the predecessor to this thread.
In the beginning it was YOU who kept it going.

Eventually, it grow and attracted several sleuths and even the FBI special agent assigned to the case. You were able to talk to him directly.

You may not have got everything you wanted, but you've really accomplished a lot.

Best wishes to you on your surgery.

[skyjack71 0]

I am repeating this post and do NOT forget to look for the cuff links and tac in the Bobby Kennedy archives. Remember that as soon as the FBI was aware I was going to WA to view them - they were immediately closef to the public until the 2030's or 40's.

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For 17 YRS now I have been but a voice in the wilderness as there was NO one there to hear me other than the wildlife. .

Duane is wearing the damn Tie Tac in this picture!

I found out today - I have to go back to surgery and life is not fair. 17 yrs and NO one listened.

Why? I wasn't young and didn't twist my butt in front of the cameras. I didn't have the money to go to WA and confront the FBI. My calls went unanswered and with an FBI agent telling me Duane Weber was NEVER at McNeil and he was never in the ARMY. I had the documents in my hands.

17 yrs and for WHAT! I have been treated like dirt by the FBI for the most part. Even you guys 50% of the time made fun of me. I have been called every name in the book...by some.

Well, I am not crazy or delusional nor am I a liar and Weber did NOT lie to me. The Footprints have been there all along.

I have had 2 surgeries since May and now I have to have more - life is not fair. Everyone is looking to be hailed the King of Cooper World - the one who solved the damn thing. Yet, I put the proof in front of the FBI 17 yrs ago. The FBI didn't have the sense to come in out of the rain - or someone was just waiting for me to die so they could claim they found Cooper -whoever they wanted him to be.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

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Farflung says in part:

'You have Bernie’s sister, who isn’t batshit crazy and barely knew Kenney in the month or two she had moved to the area before the crime that identified the clasp. She had a Bible in plain sight which oddly appears to have buttressed her statement while the dozens of milk bottles, filled with urine went unnoticed...'

Robert Blevins says in part

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Sorry, Farflung...but that's a load of baloney, IMHO.

You don't address this, but an equally relevant part of FF's post was this....

Don’t forget McCoy’s mother in law AND his sister in law (two living witnesses beats Bernie’s sister) who stated with less hesitation than Dawn J (her real name), that the clasp was in fact, Richard McCoy’s.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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[georger 244]

At the end several of the presenters were on the stage and were asked who their favored suspect was. Carol said Marla.

[377 22]

I stand corrected Georger. Must have been fixated on something else at the symposium.

Still, Carol really did a great job putting together all the Dan Cooper comics presentation. Too bad Snow missed it.

What rules out Ted Braden? Remind me.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

I heard from Sluggo. He is OK. I dont think he misses this part of the Cooper Vortex at all. I wonder what kind of rehab succeeded in curing the addiction?

And what became of Marla? Has she given up or is she still hoping to publish? She sure livened up the Portland Symposium.
The real mystery woman of the symposium was the lovely author Musika Farnsworth, who said little and revealed even less.

And Georger, I was there. I do not recall Carol Abraczinskas endorsing Marla's story. Carol's DB Cooper comic presentation was first rate and very entertaining. She only pointed out coincidences and drew no conclusions.

377

[georger 244]

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I stand corrected Georger. Must have been fixated on something else at the symposium.

Still, Carol really did a great job putting together all the Dan Cooper comics presentation. Too bad Snow missed it.

What rules out Ted Braden? Remind me.

377

Ted: the blue eyes among other things. Braden
is a curiosity for sure.

I wish there was a video or script (something) of
Carol's presentation. Alas I guess not. I want to
know the specifics of what she felt grounded her
theory because the reported versions of her theory
are shallow. I cant buy the connections she claims, if
she was reported correctly. The idea Cooper was
following some comic script - thats just not plausible.
Farflung would have a heyday with that. Fact is
frankly, I just cant see Carol doing something like
that; she;s smarter than that! There must be
something I am missing ?

[mrshutter45 21]

I think the video that did alot of damage to Marla's story was this one by KOIN http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/2864291/a_d_b_cooper_connection_in_sisters_ore

If you really dig into Marla's story, you will find all of the problems.

#1 I believe the head stone is incorrect on his birth, this really does not exclude him alone, but Marla should have caught this just as I did if she really checked her family background as she says. (or did she and remain silent)

#2 she said in a interview that Granny was extremely ill the last couple years of her life, she died 24 months after the crime so how did she have this big dinner and go into town and bake pies while being "extremely ill " at the same time?

#3 she now has two landing spots, first saying they had to go back into the woods and find the money, then claims he landed over farmland?

#4 she claimed her family at the time was extremely poor and yet was able to make the trip to Sisters among other family visits from Oklahoma if I'm not mistaken where she lived at the time

#5 nobody else ever claimed Lynn of having PTSD or any problems she mentions, and Marla herself said he was a very nice happy going guy?

#6 she claims at one point he was on a suicide mission? If this was true Lynn would not have had Dewey on the ground to to help his escape!

#7 Marcia (Lynn's wife) will not speak to anyone about this and Mom only has a gut feeling, but never explains why?

#8 She said several times that Lynn was on the run, but public records have been found of him all over the place leaving doubt as to being on the run!

#9 I have too many problems to mention of Marla's claims to post here from how she was able to get the walkie talkies in the mix of everything going on? and then seeing the home the Coopers had in Sisters not looking very big and wondering where they all slept?

when you really look into her story and see the fact that the living witnesses don't say much about her story (or stay out of it) leaving only the dead to fill in the gaps is not very convincing IMO, she fails to submit any validation of her statements such as hospital records, military records, and only seems to have one little picture of Lynn in a family she claims was very close back in those days! she also claims that Dewey took Lynn to a VA hospital rather than the closest hospital being St Charles in Bend? and with all of this happening it seems they still had a Thanksgiving dinner like always not discussing the "badly injured" Lynn inches away from death! she never speaks of the family being at the hospital awaiting word of his condition? nothing?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

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I think the video that did alot of damage to Marla's story was this one by KOIN http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/2864291/a_d_b_cooper_connection_in_sisters_ore

If you really dig into Marla's story, you will find all of the problems.

#1 I believe the head stone is incorrect on his birth, this really does not exclude him alone, but Marla should have caught this just as I did if she really checked her family background as she says. (or did she and remain silent)

#2 she said in a interview that Granny was extremely ill the last couple years of her life, she died 24 months after the crime so how did she have this big dinner and go into town to bake pies?

#3 she now has two landing spots, first saying they had to go back into the woods and find the money, then claims he landed over farmland?

#4 she claimed her family at the time was extremely poor and yet was able to make the trip to Sisters among other family visits from Oklahoma if I'm not mistaken where she lived at the time

#5 nobody else ever claimed Lynn of having PTSD or any problems she mentions, and Marla herself said he was a very nice happy going guy?

#6 she claims at one point he was on a suicide mission? If this was true Lynn would not have had Dewey on the ground to to help his escape!

#7 Marcia (Lynn's wife) will not speak to anyone about this and Mom only has a gut feeling, but never explains why?

#8 She said several times that Lynn was on the run, but public records have been found of him all over the place leaving doubt as to being on the run!

#9 I have too many problems to mention of Marla's claims to post here from how she was able to get the walkie talkies in the mix of everything going on? and then seeing the home the Coopers had in Sisters not looking very big and wondering where they all slept?

when you really look into her story and see the fact that the living witnesses don't say much about her story (or stay out of it) leaving only the dead to fill in the gaps is not very convincing IMO, she fails to submit any validation of her statements such as hospital records, military records, and only seems to have one little picture of Lynn in a family she claims was very close back in those days! she also claims that Dewey took Lynn to a VA hospital rather than the closest hospital being St Charles in Bend? and with all of this happening it seems they still had a Thanksgiving dinner like always not discussing the "badly injured" Lynn inches away from death! she never speaks of the family being at the hospital awaiting word of his condition? nothing?

10> And Seattle and self appointed Procreator,
RobertMBlevins, are doing everything right!

Only JT could have thought this one up! (for lack
of thought).

[Farflung 0]

Just reading the oxymoron ‘government work’ brings a tear to my eye typically caused when I would get something caught in a zipper in a men’s room. If only they would stop and just collect their checks from home, then the buildings and real estate these people occupy could be put to better use. I’m not sure exactly what that would be but it does not matter as there is no choice which would prove to be worse.

It amazes me how an organization can be so clueless as to apparently be unaware of opposing forces existing across the street, which also collect paychecks from the overproduction of those in the private sector.

California (naturally) has banned the sale of 100 watt incandescent light bulbs this year claiming the device as inefficient, combined with the fact that electric power plant construction has been halted for decades due to environmental concerns and the immense construction costs. This action coincides with the installation of recharging stations for use with electric cars across the state as a way to promote the use of electric powered automobiles.

Spastic, uncoordinated, jerky and sans any self awareness, these government agencies have joined in a tour de force display of just what happened to all those kids that rode the short bus every morning when they grew up. Yes those light bulbs in your home are too much of a drain on the power grid so won’t you consider using an electric car for your 35 mile average daily commute in California?

These stories are proudly reported and available on the internet for those willing to read about such ‘better living delivered by government’ activities while having lost the will to live. I don’t know why there aren’t telethons or research groups working feverishly to cure something which makes the plague appear benign and could be so easily diagnosed. Would anyone brag or boast about working for either of the above organizations? One would surely select the subject of incest over claiming any such association with government employment, since practicing incest can maintain some level of dignity and honor.

I’m proud to be in the private sector where corrections are rapid, responsive and nimble to customer demands and changes in the flow of information. At least it’s not like being some brain dead employee of an organization which defines misalignment, disinformation and poopy headness.

[mrshutter45 21]

I called Anson Jewelry and spoke with a woman that was very kind and informative, she told me that this piece was manufactured in Rhode Island and the distributor was in Utah in the 60's & 70's.

they did not sell to department stores such as JC Penney's, only smaller retailers! she also went on to explain that they would be sold under different names and boxes.

they would manufacture a piece as long as it was popular and either change it up a bit, or discontinue the piece, I sent her the photos of Coopers piece and the pictures we found in order for her to get a valid look at the piece and am awaiting her response.

Anson has changed hands 3 times in the last 40 years but, her Uncle has been through them all and she is going to show our evidence to him, what becomes of this I'm not sure at this point.

I also called Stacy's jewelry and they answered by saying, hello? then went on to say that they were not the same Stacy's from the 60's & 70's.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[airtwardo 7]

Are you REALLY gonna muck all this up with actual research and FACTS?!






~but seriously, nice work!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mrshutter45 21]

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Are you REALLY gonna muck all this up with actual research and FACTS?!






~but seriously, nice work!

Thanks! even if nothing pans out, I can say I tried

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI