skyjack71 0 #31151 March 14, 2012 No new facts or serious studies of the crime left. 0nly thing left now is for someone to pull forward on a suspect and finish this..... I have 2 footprints but, I am running out of time. I won't go into any detail to explain what I am referring to, but those who know - know exactly what I am talking about. Just edited out a bunch of things because I was not making any sense. Feel pretty bad tonight, but maybe I will have some answers by the end of the wk - I hope so. I am not expecting good news! Knoss - KNOCK it off. I am sick and tired of individuals like you and who are nothing more than leeches. You are the worse because you do NOT have a subject of your own - you jump on and ride other suspects sucking their hard word to death with your twisted mind. NOTE THIS. ON A TV PROGRAM in the last 2 days - more information was skimmed off of this thread. Someone out there is working on something pretty big and they drop hints about Cooper in vague - suggestive way in various programs. Recently there was a comment about MKultra and other things we discussed on this thread in regards to Weber....all in one sentence - but, I forgot to watch the credits. Bet it was Scott and Scott.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31152 March 14, 2012 HUH? I'm lost. I took nothing from anyone but Bill, Duane and Mac, and nobody agrees with what I've got, so.... HUH? You lost me. Duane Weber can be only YOUR suspect? Get serious, Jo. He is THE hyjacker of 305, PERIOD. I don't see anyone else claiming Blue Bird control, but I think Bruce buys into it, maybe 377. MKUltra was shut down before 1968, non-existent, defunct, no involvement, no drugs. Nadda. I firmly believe Duane was subjected to Blue Bird, AKA Artichoke, just like I was. Some people who don't know better just use the old name because it has more recognition. Their facilities were set up about a mile from where Duane and I were caretakers. I think it was called the Bloomington Armory. Not sure. Geoff Gray has the location co-ordinates and the facts as I experienced them. We toured the area together and I showed him where everybody lived, the "Blue Bird" operation headquarters, all of it. Not MY story because I didn't make it up, I just wrote it down and I keep digging. It's not Duane's story, it's Mac's story, but he can't come out and tell it. He's dead, you know. Twice. Third time is the charm. 70 years old now. But don't tell anybody. "HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA." (Quotation from Mac hisself) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31153 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuote(I)n the last sentence of you post you state that food was scattered over the rear portion of the cabin of the aircraft after it landed in Reno. Quote Rataczak told me during our interview in 2009 that Cooper had meals brought aboard for the crew while they refueled in Seattle. Bill said the dinners were placed in styrofoam containers and placed on the seats in first class nearest the cockpit. He said they never touched them and that they were still there when they landed in Reno. He described the LE entrance onto the plane at Reno as near-pandemonium, and that the dogs and their handlers were one of the first to board. They dogs headed straight for the food and ate away. Bill laughed as he told me this. It seems like there was little discipline or control of the dogs, and perhaps elsewhere on the aircraft at that time. I gather from what Bill told me that the dogs made a mess. "The dog ate my homework" FBI style. Maybe the FBI K9s ate the cigarette butts too? On the DC 9 with an open rear door there was no air disturbance inside the cabin, even right next to the bulkhead door. It was dead calm. Same in a C 130 standing right on the lowered tailgate ramp at 14,000 feet. 377 Maybe not hurricane gales, but enough to disturb light weight plastic, paper and foam containers- really close to the open ramp , I am not saying it happened, just challenging "dead calm" as fact. The 727, had very little current in the cabin when that was a jump platform at Quincy. The C-130 has an "arch" where the slip stream carves across the ramp cutting through the area by the hydraulic lifts and meeting in the center just a bout a foot inside the edge of the ramp. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #31154 March 14, 2012 You do know that the GOV released over 12,000 pages of documents about MK Ultra, and its other names, right? So, it DOES have documentation, so far you and Duane aren't mentioned. Since you just wrote that your "Wrote it down" scam and post those notes! That would be prof, you would be vindicated! You would get apologies for being doubted, be welcomed as a hero in some circles! Maybe even a beer or two bought for you! Hell, you would get a much better book deal than any one since the publishers would be knocking down your door throwing bags of cash at you! Maybe you don't understand, I WANT to believe your story and find the truth, but you have got to put the proof on the table. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31155 March 14, 2012 Quote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #31156 March 14, 2012 NO, I get you're making this all up, using others stories and pieces of conspiracy to have fun toying with a few here who have actual emotional attachments to their belief. You have never provided ONE item of ACTUAL PROOF. Yet you would have us think you're some sort of expert and insider. None of which is true as of now, no evidence in support of the story. You don't even fit the Profile of the "Patients" in the experiment. Even your own time line just made your story wrong again, remember? I am glad others are getting the point of "remember". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hangdiver 1 #31157 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob I've read just about everything you write Bob...not that I necessarily believe it...but it makes a great "conspiracy theory"/b movie...but I respect your determination and patients with us other posters who constantly give you shit over what you post. just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31158 March 14, 2012 Quote Matt You have no understanding of what you think you said and I'm not going to try explain it to you. Your only purpose is to bait and flame. If you were informed about what you keep throwing out, it might be interesting to discuss it. But, you are off the tracks in your understanding of the entire situation. Too much work to explain it if you won't listen anyway. We can't seem to agree on the simplest foothold here, Matt. You have no point at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31159 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob I've read just about everything you write Bob...not that I necessarily believe it...but it makes a great "conspiracy theory"/b movie...but I respect your determination and patients with us other posters who constantly give you shit over what you post. just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver OK. Ask some relevant questions and I will tell you the truth, if I know, providing legal rights for personal harm to participating parties. You pick the subjects. A lot of this stuff can still pop out of my memory if prompted. I found myself in the middle of a sentence about McCord AFB before I realized what I was saying. Shocking shit.. Have a go. Let's see what happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #31160 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuote Matt You have no understanding of what you think you said and I'm not going to try explain it to you. Your only purpose is to bait and flame. If you were informed about what you keep throwing out, it might be interesting to discuss it. But, you are off the tracks in your understanding of the entire situation. Too much work to explain it if you won't listen anyway. We can't seem to agree on the simplest foothold here, Matt. You have no point at all. We can't agree, since you won't prove any of your wild claims. Obviously reading comprehension is not a strong suit with you. You are the "baiter", and a "master" at it, no one else. Put proof out there for us to see and touch, other wise your just a good "yarn spinner". Like it was said, it is a great "conspiracy" and so far that is all it is. Nice try to day you have to "protect" people by hiding the truth, but that is not correct is it? Facts as I see them: You had no physical hand in the hijacking (or so called training) what so ever. You are not protecting any one. (No one to protect) You had no role in MK Ultra (or any other name) mind altering experiment. You are here for your amusement and are a button pusher. This is true, because I said it is. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31161 March 14, 2012 Quote just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver OK. Here's one you can run real easy. McCoy escaped Pa. Penn with Walker and did a couple bank robberies, Mac was theoretically shot by O'Hara, right? What if I told you that, "The Walker brothers next bank robbery was in Norfolk, VA, April 11, 1968, where they were apprehended by FBI SA Nick O'Hara who was very near the bank ..." had some relevance to the 1974 escape, would you raise your eyebrows? That McCoy worked for O'Hara as a Pentegon Loanee on Norjak and the Walker case. They recovered the original bank loot and returned Walker to prison. Johnny Surles and McCoy were BUDDIES!! McCoy's hometown! McCoy and O'Hara were a TEAM! http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=5371667&song=Johnny+Surles+Interveiw The cover-up story of McCoy/Walker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hangdiver 1 #31162 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob I've read just about everything you write Bob...not that I necessarily believe it...but it makes a great "conspiracy theory"/b movie...but I respect your determination and patients with us other posters who constantly give you shit over what you post. just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver OK. Ask some relevant questions and I will tell you the truth, if I know, providing legal rights for personal harm to participating parties. You pick the subjects. A lot of this stuff can still pop out of my memory if prompted. I found myself in the middle of a sentence about McCord AFB before I realized what I was saying. Shocking shit.. Have a go. Let's see what happens. 1. What year did the alleged training start/finish? 2.Where did the alleged training take place? 3.What was the Director/XO's name? 4.Who gave him his orders? 5.How were you personally picked as part of "the team"? 6.What criteria was used to pick the other alleged members...Mac, Duane and others? Thanks in advance... hangdiver "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31163 March 14, 2012 1. What year did the alleged training start/finish? Training started after Mac personally got Duane out of Missouri on 'early release' around May, 1968, and ran through into August or September 1968. Plans went on hold waiting for international convention negotiations to happen. They did not. Japan, The Hague and Montreal. Montreal was the big problem. 2.Where did the alleged training take place? 9020 Lyndale Ave. So., Bloomington, MN. and at Flying Cloud Airport near Shakopee, MN, known as a jumping mecca. 3.What was the Director/XO's name? Nicholas O'Hara SA FBI, Minneapolis. 4.Who gave him his orders? Don't know. J. Edgar probably assigned him to work with the FAA? McCoy reported to him. 5.How were you personally picked as part of "the team"? I threatened my draft board and was arrested by Sgt. McCoy, Special Services. I was sentenced to four years at Leavenworth in March, 1968, by Commander John Anderson, suspended, to support McCoy in Project Norjak. Penalty for disclosure is 20 years. I claim Whistleblower status and have broken no laws pursuant to this case. 6.What criteria was used to pick the other alleged members...Mac, Duane and others? Mac had worked undercover with Duane before and knew he could take orders without creating any personal danger. Duane needed special medical attention he could not get in prison. He was offered assistance by 'Maggie' for that purpose. Mac was one of two primary instigators of the original plan. Mac was the facilitator and got the Project approved, he got Blue Bird into the Project through Anderson. 'The other guy' was the thinker, planner, and trainer. The purpose of the original "pilot safety demonstration" evolved into something else before it was executed. Politics took over early in the game. Got more questions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #31164 March 14, 2012 University Of Minnesota-Twin Cities Minneapolis, MN Graduated: 1965 Student status: Alumni Degree: Bachelor's Degree Major: Education Minor: Athletics Greek: Mu Iota Epsilon 1961 to 1965 Those who finished a bachelors degree before reaching age 25 could apply for a graduate deferment in the early and middle years of the war (up to 1968) and could apply for occupational or dependent deferments throughout the period from 1965 to 1970 probably about 22 at graduation?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #31165 March 14, 2012 Matt wrote: QuoteMaybe not hurricane gales, but enough to disturb light weight plastic, paper and foam containers- really close to the open ramp , I am not saying it happened, just challenging "dead calm" as fact. The 727, had very little current in the cabin when that was a jump platform at Quincy. The C-130 has an "arch" where the slip stream carves across the ramp cutting through the area by the hydraulic lifts and meeting in the center just a bout a foot inside the edge of the ramp. Maybe I wasn't far enough out on the Herc ramp to get the blast but it was amazingly calm on the part where I stood about three feet back from the ramp lip. Noisy as hell, but not breezy. The plane was a very early model C 130A, with 3 bladed props. N131EC. The DC 9 really was calm right next to the open rear bulkhead door. I think if I had dropped a styro cup it would have just gone straight down to the floor. BTW the French Caravelle jet (roughly a DC 9 type medium range passenger jet) had rear ventral stairs. I think it preceded the DC 9 debut. UAL flew some for a while. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sud+caravelle+rear+door&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS453&biw=1120&bih=543&tbm=isch&tbnid=q87M3OK0xtFCdM:&imgrefurl=http://www.aeroengineer.net/history/caravelle60/index.html&docid=zoFaV7A5l5OyfM&imgurl=http://www.aeroengineer.net/history/caravelle60/images/Caravelle.jpg&w=1600&h=574&ei=9RphT4PFKIjO2wW99tiGCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=55&vpy=217&dur=8&hovh=134&hovw=375&tx=238&ty=98&sig=112871121911353617941&page=5&tbnh=75&tbnw=209&start=51&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:51 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31166 March 15, 2012 Quote You can't answer because it isn't true. I told the draftboard lady on the phone I would go to Canada before going through induction. Two FBI agents visited the doctor who wrote my medical excuse. Told him never to do that again. (I had my draftboard files searched. I was dating the secretary at the draftboard office. There is nothing there. I also searched my files through the Freedom of Information Act. Nothing there.) My draftboard contacted me and offered me an opportunity to participate in a Civil Service "FAA-FBI project" she had talked to McCoy about. I said, "Yes." My draftboard handed me off to Commander Anderson who was in charge of ROTC at the U. He also ran for President of the U.S. Yes. That guy. I signed a Top Secret Document with big red writing across the top while in the presence of Anderson, McCoy, and the hypnotist, Doctor Black. POOF. McCoy had that sheet. When they plan a covert operation I don't think they are going to leave those kind of documents laying around for general consumption in open files. THAT is REALLY nieve! I expected to get something with the Freedom Act. Afterwards, Mac said Nixon gave a general pardon that included me, and that he had 'purged' my files just like he did Duane's at the insurance company. Yes, convenient. He spent hours and hours removing pictures and references of himself from the internet. He left a few 'special' shots of himself with stars. Really big on his self image. I think he wrote his own bio for Wiki. Sounds like his version of McGod on Earth. Everything was "we" with him. No, Bobby, you can't pull a skunk out of your hat on me. All the talking witnesses are dead. The living ones respect what was done. Even Ralph didn't know about my suspended sentence. Mac knows. I know. I think you will find most everyone in my graduating class enlisted or was inducted except me. Jack Watters went to Canada, AWOL. I was 2S, then 1Y then 3A, for what that's worth. I was also critically active on AAA military contracts for supplies to Vietnam during that period. Only went to one induction and walked out. THAT was fun! Goose egg, Blevins! It is your job to belittle and try to humiliate me, I know, Cooper Crew and all that. But I have a lot truer ring of reality than the string of Porterious fables you bought into. I think you are still on that turnip truck. I don't have to guess at what happened or rely on someone else's guesses. I recorded history for Mac. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #31167 March 15, 2012 QuoteQuote You can't answer because it isn't true. I told the draftboard lady on the phone I would go to Canada before going through induction. Two FBI agents visited the doctor who wrote my medical excuse. Told him never to do that again. (I had my draftboard files searched. I was dating the secretary at the draftboard office. There is nothing there. I also searched my files through the Freedom of Information Act. Nothing there.) My draftboard contacted me and offered me an opportunity to participate in a Civil Service "FAA-FBI project" she had talked to McCoy about. I said, "Yes." My draftboard handed me off to Commander Anderson who was in charge of ROTC at the U. He also ran for President of the U.S. Yes. That guy. I signed a Top Secret Document with big red writing across the top while in the presence of Anderson, McCoy, and the hypnotist, Doctor Black. POOF. McCoy had that sheet. When they plan a covert operation I don't think they are going to leave those kind of documents laying around for general consumption in open files. THAT is REALLY nieve! I expected to get something with the Freedom Act. Afterwards, Mac said Nixon gave a general pardon that included me, and that he had 'purged' my files just like he did Duane's at the insurance company. Yes, convenient. He spent hours and hours removing pictures and references of himself from the internet. He left a few 'special' shots of himself with stars. Really big on his self image. I think he wrote his own bio for Wiki. Sounds like his version of McGod on Earth. Everything was "we" with him. No, Bobby, you can't pull a skunk out of your hat on me. All the talking witnesses are dead. The living ones respect what was done. Even Ralph didn't know about my suspended sentence. Mac knows. I know. I think you will find most everyone in my graduating class enlisted or was inducted except me. Jack Watters went to Canada, AWOL. I was 2S, then 1Y then 3A, for what that's worth. I was also critically active on AAA military contracts for supplies to Vietnam during that period. Only went to one induction and walked out. THAT was fun! Goose egg, Blevins! It is your job to belittle and try to humiliate me, I know, Cooper Crew and all that. But I have a lot truer ring of reality than the string of Porterious fables you bought into. I think you are still on that turnip truck. I don't have to guess at what happened or rely on someone else's guesses. I recorded history for Mac. BK, You claim to have been "arrested" (if that is the right word here) by the military for threatening a draft board clerk by telling her that you were going to Canada. Was that really a threat to the lady or just you running your mouth? Also, if you actually committed a crime and were arrested it would have been by civilian police, either local or federal, since you were also a civilian. Your claim to having a "Top Secret" security clearance is laughable. It is unlikely that you were ever in the military or had a security clearance of any kind. Your claims don't even pass the low threshold for your usual nonsense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31168 March 15, 2012 Quote Your claim to having a "Top Secret" security clearance is laughable. It is unlikely that you were ever in the military or had a security clearance of any kind. Your claims don't even pass the low threshold for your usual nonsense. Never made any such "Top Secret Clearance" claim. Lay off the weed, Dude. Just told you I was NEVER in the Service. You are a smart guy. What's up with you? Booze? You are not your usual 20/20 self. It was as I just explained. "Arrested" was probably not the choicest of words. "Coeurced into an inquisition under hypnosis," might be more accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #31169 March 15, 2012 Greetings All, For those who doubt Mr. Knoss, or have trouble believeing what he is saying, a helpful perspective is provided by other sources talking about "super soldiers" and the current status of remote viewing, particulary under battelfield conditions. The following video I found emmensely interesting. I make no claim of its authenticity, but it shows a logical progression of individual skills and military capabilites from those discussed in "The Men who Stared at Goats," the Earth First Battalion, and the Remote Viewing programs as described by Joe McMoneagle, David What's-his-name who wrote Psychic Warrior, and the work by Hal Putoff at Stanford. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYO-iABnQd4&feature=player_embedded From what Bob has told me in phone interviews, I think his characterization of being "coerced" is a better fit for what actually happened than "arrest." That said, I still don't fully understand why Bob felt as "coerced" as he appears to have been. I'd love to hear more about his decision to join the NORJAK team. I know he didn't feel he had many options, but I'd like to better understand why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31170 March 15, 2012 Quote You NEVER should have made that claim, Bob. I'm a proud vet, never saw action, but I do know how to get to the bottom of your draft board threat story. And I will. What city was that again where you threatened them? Total truth. Loraine K. Long, Fairmont, Minnesota. But you aren't going to find anything unless you talk to Mac and he won't talk to you. You can't prove a negative, you're just trying to show off. You are totally nieve to think you can find ANYTHING. If the FBI can't find it, you certainly can't. I have the guy who went in my slot and the guy who went AWOL who know what happened, but that is none of your business. Goose egg again, Blevins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31171 March 15, 2012 Quote.... That said, I still don't fully understand why Bob felt as "coerced" as he appears to have been. I'd love to hear more about his decision to join the NORJAK team. I know he didn't feel he had many options, but I'd like to better understand why. Bruce, The entire meeting was done under hypnosis. I was brought out AFTER they left the building. I didn't even meet them until after I was under. Sentenced to 4 years, UNLESS I sign on the dotted line with a 20 year contingency? That was ILLEGAL coersion according to my attorneys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #31172 March 15, 2012 BK wroteQuote'I threatened my draft board and was arrested by Sgt. McCoy, Special Services. I was sentenced to four years at Leavenworth in March, 1968, by Commander John Anderson, suspended, to support McCoy in Project Norjak....' Bob, How does a civilian get sentenced by a "Commander" to a military prison? This was pre NDAA, pre Patriot Act, pre Eric Holder saying that due process doesn't mean judicial process. We actually had some rights in 1968 when you claim to have been arrested. I must have been cutting when they taught this highly unorthodox criminal procedure in law school. Educate me. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31173 March 15, 2012 QuoteBK wroteQuote'I threatened my draft board and was arrested by Sgt. McCoy, Special Services. I was sentenced to four years at Leavenworth in March, 1968, by Commander John Anderson, suspended, to support McCoy in Project Norjak....' Bob, How does a civilian get sentenced by a "Commander" to a military prison? This was pre NDAA, pre Patriot Act, pre Eric Holder saying that due process doesn't mean judicial process. We actually had some rights in 1971. I must have been cutting when they taught this highly unorthodox criminal procedure in law school. Educate me. 377 March 1968. Exactly as I have stated. I know who Commander John Anderson was, and it was him, no question at all. Both him and McCoy in full military dress. Levinworth was full of guys like me, draft dodgers, card burners, etc. I remember a TV interview of a prisoner.... "We haven't done ANYTHING!" It happened. General LeMay was a mean son of a bitch. I'm going to bed. Screw it. Tomorrow is my Birthday. 69. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #31174 March 15, 2012 Happy Birthday Bob. Leavenworth is a Federal Prison. I think I was confusing it with Ft Leavenworth a military facility. What did USAF General LeMay have to do with your "case"? Gen LeMay was an active ham radio operator, like so many on this forum. Call signs included W6EZV. Coincidence? Hmmmm. QuoteLeMay was also an active amateur radio operator. He was famous for transmitting on amateur bands while flying aboard SAC bombers. Through amateur radio, LeMay became aware that the new Single Side Band technology offered significant advantages over the systems being used by SAC aircraft when operating long distances from their bases. In 1957 he implemented this technology as the radio standard for SAC bombers. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #31175 March 15, 2012 Birth name Curtis Emerson LeMay Nickname "Old Iron Pants", "Bombs Away" LeMay Born November 15, 1906 Columbus, Ohio, United States Died October 1, 1990 (aged 83) March Air Force Base, California, United States Allegiance United States Service/branch United States Air Force United States Army Air Forces United States Army Air Corps United States Army Ohio National Guard Years of service 1928–65 Rank General Commands held Twentieth Air Force Strategic Air Command USAF Chief of Staff Battles/wars World War II Pacific Theatre General, USAF (Retired): February 1, 1965... gone by 1968"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 Next Page 1247 of 2576 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50
matthewcline 0 #31154 March 14, 2012 You do know that the GOV released over 12,000 pages of documents about MK Ultra, and its other names, right? So, it DOES have documentation, so far you and Duane aren't mentioned. Since you just wrote that your "Wrote it down" scam and post those notes! That would be prof, you would be vindicated! You would get apologies for being doubted, be welcomed as a hero in some circles! Maybe even a beer or two bought for you! Hell, you would get a much better book deal than any one since the publishers would be knocking down your door throwing bags of cash at you! Maybe you don't understand, I WANT to believe your story and find the truth, but you have got to put the proof on the table. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31155 March 14, 2012 Quote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31156 March 14, 2012 NO, I get you're making this all up, using others stories and pieces of conspiracy to have fun toying with a few here who have actual emotional attachments to their belief. You have never provided ONE item of ACTUAL PROOF. Yet you would have us think you're some sort of expert and insider. None of which is true as of now, no evidence in support of the story. You don't even fit the Profile of the "Patients" in the experiment. Even your own time line just made your story wrong again, remember? I am glad others are getting the point of "remember". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hangdiver 1 #31157 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob I've read just about everything you write Bob...not that I necessarily believe it...but it makes a great "conspiracy theory"/b movie...but I respect your determination and patients with us other posters who constantly give you shit over what you post. just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31158 March 14, 2012 Quote Matt You have no understanding of what you think you said and I'm not going to try explain it to you. Your only purpose is to bait and flame. If you were informed about what you keep throwing out, it might be interesting to discuss it. But, you are off the tracks in your understanding of the entire situation. Too much work to explain it if you won't listen anyway. We can't seem to agree on the simplest foothold here, Matt. You have no point at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31159 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob I've read just about everything you write Bob...not that I necessarily believe it...but it makes a great "conspiracy theory"/b movie...but I respect your determination and patients with us other posters who constantly give you shit over what you post. just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver OK. Ask some relevant questions and I will tell you the truth, if I know, providing legal rights for personal harm to participating parties. You pick the subjects. A lot of this stuff can still pop out of my memory if prompted. I found myself in the middle of a sentence about McCord AFB before I realized what I was saying. Shocking shit.. Have a go. Let's see what happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31160 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuote Matt You have no understanding of what you think you said and I'm not going to try explain it to you. Your only purpose is to bait and flame. If you were informed about what you keep throwing out, it might be interesting to discuss it. But, you are off the tracks in your understanding of the entire situation. Too much work to explain it if you won't listen anyway. We can't seem to agree on the simplest foothold here, Matt. You have no point at all. We can't agree, since you won't prove any of your wild claims. Obviously reading comprehension is not a strong suit with you. You are the "baiter", and a "master" at it, no one else. Put proof out there for us to see and touch, other wise your just a good "yarn spinner". Like it was said, it is a great "conspiracy" and so far that is all it is. Nice try to day you have to "protect" people by hiding the truth, but that is not correct is it? Facts as I see them: You had no physical hand in the hijacking (or so called training) what so ever. You are not protecting any one. (No one to protect) You had no role in MK Ultra (or any other name) mind altering experiment. You are here for your amusement and are a button pusher. This is true, because I said it is. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31161 March 14, 2012 Quote just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver OK. Here's one you can run real easy. McCoy escaped Pa. Penn with Walker and did a couple bank robberies, Mac was theoretically shot by O'Hara, right? What if I told you that, "The Walker brothers next bank robbery was in Norfolk, VA, April 11, 1968, where they were apprehended by FBI SA Nick O'Hara who was very near the bank ..." had some relevance to the 1974 escape, would you raise your eyebrows? That McCoy worked for O'Hara as a Pentegon Loanee on Norjak and the Walker case. They recovered the original bank loot and returned Walker to prison. Johnny Surles and McCoy were BUDDIES!! McCoy's hometown! McCoy and O'Hara were a TEAM! http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=5371667&song=Johnny+Surles+Interveiw The cover-up story of McCoy/Walker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hangdiver 1 #31162 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Matt No, I totally understand. You don't get it. Bob I've read just about everything you write Bob...not that I necessarily believe it...but it makes a great "conspiracy theory"/b movie...but I respect your determination and patients with us other posters who constantly give you shit over what you post. just sayin...you've been very respectful in your explanations...even though you never bring solid evidence to the table...now if...and that's a big if...it's the truth...I can understand your reluctance to give out too much info...just sayin... ...but throw us a bone....!!!... hangdiver OK. Ask some relevant questions and I will tell you the truth, if I know, providing legal rights for personal harm to participating parties. You pick the subjects. A lot of this stuff can still pop out of my memory if prompted. I found myself in the middle of a sentence about McCord AFB before I realized what I was saying. Shocking shit.. Have a go. Let's see what happens. 1. What year did the alleged training start/finish? 2.Where did the alleged training take place? 3.What was the Director/XO's name? 4.Who gave him his orders? 5.How were you personally picked as part of "the team"? 6.What criteria was used to pick the other alleged members...Mac, Duane and others? Thanks in advance... hangdiver "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31163 March 14, 2012 1. What year did the alleged training start/finish? Training started after Mac personally got Duane out of Missouri on 'early release' around May, 1968, and ran through into August or September 1968. Plans went on hold waiting for international convention negotiations to happen. They did not. Japan, The Hague and Montreal. Montreal was the big problem. 2.Where did the alleged training take place? 9020 Lyndale Ave. So., Bloomington, MN. and at Flying Cloud Airport near Shakopee, MN, known as a jumping mecca. 3.What was the Director/XO's name? Nicholas O'Hara SA FBI, Minneapolis. 4.Who gave him his orders? Don't know. J. Edgar probably assigned him to work with the FAA? McCoy reported to him. 5.How were you personally picked as part of "the team"? I threatened my draft board and was arrested by Sgt. McCoy, Special Services. I was sentenced to four years at Leavenworth in March, 1968, by Commander John Anderson, suspended, to support McCoy in Project Norjak. Penalty for disclosure is 20 years. I claim Whistleblower status and have broken no laws pursuant to this case. 6.What criteria was used to pick the other alleged members...Mac, Duane and others? Mac had worked undercover with Duane before and knew he could take orders without creating any personal danger. Duane needed special medical attention he could not get in prison. He was offered assistance by 'Maggie' for that purpose. Mac was one of two primary instigators of the original plan. Mac was the facilitator and got the Project approved, he got Blue Bird into the Project through Anderson. 'The other guy' was the thinker, planner, and trainer. The purpose of the original "pilot safety demonstration" evolved into something else before it was executed. Politics took over early in the game. Got more questions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31164 March 14, 2012 University Of Minnesota-Twin Cities Minneapolis, MN Graduated: 1965 Student status: Alumni Degree: Bachelor's Degree Major: Education Minor: Athletics Greek: Mu Iota Epsilon 1961 to 1965 Those who finished a bachelors degree before reaching age 25 could apply for a graduate deferment in the early and middle years of the war (up to 1968) and could apply for occupational or dependent deferments throughout the period from 1965 to 1970 probably about 22 at graduation?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #31165 March 14, 2012 Matt wrote: QuoteMaybe not hurricane gales, but enough to disturb light weight plastic, paper and foam containers- really close to the open ramp , I am not saying it happened, just challenging "dead calm" as fact. The 727, had very little current in the cabin when that was a jump platform at Quincy. The C-130 has an "arch" where the slip stream carves across the ramp cutting through the area by the hydraulic lifts and meeting in the center just a bout a foot inside the edge of the ramp. Maybe I wasn't far enough out on the Herc ramp to get the blast but it was amazingly calm on the part where I stood about three feet back from the ramp lip. Noisy as hell, but not breezy. The plane was a very early model C 130A, with 3 bladed props. N131EC. The DC 9 really was calm right next to the open rear bulkhead door. I think if I had dropped a styro cup it would have just gone straight down to the floor. BTW the French Caravelle jet (roughly a DC 9 type medium range passenger jet) had rear ventral stairs. I think it preceded the DC 9 debut. UAL flew some for a while. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sud+caravelle+rear+door&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS453&biw=1120&bih=543&tbm=isch&tbnid=q87M3OK0xtFCdM:&imgrefurl=http://www.aeroengineer.net/history/caravelle60/index.html&docid=zoFaV7A5l5OyfM&imgurl=http://www.aeroengineer.net/history/caravelle60/images/Caravelle.jpg&w=1600&h=574&ei=9RphT4PFKIjO2wW99tiGCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=55&vpy=217&dur=8&hovh=134&hovw=375&tx=238&ty=98&sig=112871121911353617941&page=5&tbnh=75&tbnw=209&start=51&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:51 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31166 March 15, 2012 Quote You can't answer because it isn't true. I told the draftboard lady on the phone I would go to Canada before going through induction. Two FBI agents visited the doctor who wrote my medical excuse. Told him never to do that again. (I had my draftboard files searched. I was dating the secretary at the draftboard office. There is nothing there. I also searched my files through the Freedom of Information Act. Nothing there.) My draftboard contacted me and offered me an opportunity to participate in a Civil Service "FAA-FBI project" she had talked to McCoy about. I said, "Yes." My draftboard handed me off to Commander Anderson who was in charge of ROTC at the U. He also ran for President of the U.S. Yes. That guy. I signed a Top Secret Document with big red writing across the top while in the presence of Anderson, McCoy, and the hypnotist, Doctor Black. POOF. McCoy had that sheet. When they plan a covert operation I don't think they are going to leave those kind of documents laying around for general consumption in open files. THAT is REALLY nieve! I expected to get something with the Freedom Act. Afterwards, Mac said Nixon gave a general pardon that included me, and that he had 'purged' my files just like he did Duane's at the insurance company. Yes, convenient. He spent hours and hours removing pictures and references of himself from the internet. He left a few 'special' shots of himself with stars. Really big on his self image. I think he wrote his own bio for Wiki. Sounds like his version of McGod on Earth. Everything was "we" with him. No, Bobby, you can't pull a skunk out of your hat on me. All the talking witnesses are dead. The living ones respect what was done. Even Ralph didn't know about my suspended sentence. Mac knows. I know. I think you will find most everyone in my graduating class enlisted or was inducted except me. Jack Watters went to Canada, AWOL. I was 2S, then 1Y then 3A, for what that's worth. I was also critically active on AAA military contracts for supplies to Vietnam during that period. Only went to one induction and walked out. THAT was fun! Goose egg, Blevins! It is your job to belittle and try to humiliate me, I know, Cooper Crew and all that. But I have a lot truer ring of reality than the string of Porterious fables you bought into. I think you are still on that turnip truck. I don't have to guess at what happened or rely on someone else's guesses. I recorded history for Mac. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #31167 March 15, 2012 QuoteQuote You can't answer because it isn't true. I told the draftboard lady on the phone I would go to Canada before going through induction. Two FBI agents visited the doctor who wrote my medical excuse. Told him never to do that again. (I had my draftboard files searched. I was dating the secretary at the draftboard office. There is nothing there. I also searched my files through the Freedom of Information Act. Nothing there.) My draftboard contacted me and offered me an opportunity to participate in a Civil Service "FAA-FBI project" she had talked to McCoy about. I said, "Yes." My draftboard handed me off to Commander Anderson who was in charge of ROTC at the U. He also ran for President of the U.S. Yes. That guy. I signed a Top Secret Document with big red writing across the top while in the presence of Anderson, McCoy, and the hypnotist, Doctor Black. POOF. McCoy had that sheet. When they plan a covert operation I don't think they are going to leave those kind of documents laying around for general consumption in open files. THAT is REALLY nieve! I expected to get something with the Freedom Act. Afterwards, Mac said Nixon gave a general pardon that included me, and that he had 'purged' my files just like he did Duane's at the insurance company. Yes, convenient. He spent hours and hours removing pictures and references of himself from the internet. He left a few 'special' shots of himself with stars. Really big on his self image. I think he wrote his own bio for Wiki. Sounds like his version of McGod on Earth. Everything was "we" with him. No, Bobby, you can't pull a skunk out of your hat on me. All the talking witnesses are dead. The living ones respect what was done. Even Ralph didn't know about my suspended sentence. Mac knows. I know. I think you will find most everyone in my graduating class enlisted or was inducted except me. Jack Watters went to Canada, AWOL. I was 2S, then 1Y then 3A, for what that's worth. I was also critically active on AAA military contracts for supplies to Vietnam during that period. Only went to one induction and walked out. THAT was fun! Goose egg, Blevins! It is your job to belittle and try to humiliate me, I know, Cooper Crew and all that. But I have a lot truer ring of reality than the string of Porterious fables you bought into. I think you are still on that turnip truck. I don't have to guess at what happened or rely on someone else's guesses. I recorded history for Mac. BK, You claim to have been "arrested" (if that is the right word here) by the military for threatening a draft board clerk by telling her that you were going to Canada. Was that really a threat to the lady or just you running your mouth? Also, if you actually committed a crime and were arrested it would have been by civilian police, either local or federal, since you were also a civilian. Your claim to having a "Top Secret" security clearance is laughable. It is unlikely that you were ever in the military or had a security clearance of any kind. Your claims don't even pass the low threshold for your usual nonsense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31168 March 15, 2012 Quote Your claim to having a "Top Secret" security clearance is laughable. It is unlikely that you were ever in the military or had a security clearance of any kind. Your claims don't even pass the low threshold for your usual nonsense. Never made any such "Top Secret Clearance" claim. Lay off the weed, Dude. Just told you I was NEVER in the Service. You are a smart guy. What's up with you? Booze? You are not your usual 20/20 self. It was as I just explained. "Arrested" was probably not the choicest of words. "Coeurced into an inquisition under hypnosis," might be more accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #31169 March 15, 2012 Greetings All, For those who doubt Mr. Knoss, or have trouble believeing what he is saying, a helpful perspective is provided by other sources talking about "super soldiers" and the current status of remote viewing, particulary under battelfield conditions. The following video I found emmensely interesting. I make no claim of its authenticity, but it shows a logical progression of individual skills and military capabilites from those discussed in "The Men who Stared at Goats," the Earth First Battalion, and the Remote Viewing programs as described by Joe McMoneagle, David What's-his-name who wrote Psychic Warrior, and the work by Hal Putoff at Stanford. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYO-iABnQd4&feature=player_embedded From what Bob has told me in phone interviews, I think his characterization of being "coerced" is a better fit for what actually happened than "arrest." That said, I still don't fully understand why Bob felt as "coerced" as he appears to have been. I'd love to hear more about his decision to join the NORJAK team. I know he didn't feel he had many options, but I'd like to better understand why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31170 March 15, 2012 Quote You NEVER should have made that claim, Bob. I'm a proud vet, never saw action, but I do know how to get to the bottom of your draft board threat story. And I will. What city was that again where you threatened them? Total truth. Loraine K. Long, Fairmont, Minnesota. But you aren't going to find anything unless you talk to Mac and he won't talk to you. You can't prove a negative, you're just trying to show off. You are totally nieve to think you can find ANYTHING. If the FBI can't find it, you certainly can't. I have the guy who went in my slot and the guy who went AWOL who know what happened, but that is none of your business. Goose egg again, Blevins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31171 March 15, 2012 Quote.... That said, I still don't fully understand why Bob felt as "coerced" as he appears to have been. I'd love to hear more about his decision to join the NORJAK team. I know he didn't feel he had many options, but I'd like to better understand why. Bruce, The entire meeting was done under hypnosis. I was brought out AFTER they left the building. I didn't even meet them until after I was under. Sentenced to 4 years, UNLESS I sign on the dotted line with a 20 year contingency? That was ILLEGAL coersion according to my attorneys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #31172 March 15, 2012 BK wroteQuote'I threatened my draft board and was arrested by Sgt. McCoy, Special Services. I was sentenced to four years at Leavenworth in March, 1968, by Commander John Anderson, suspended, to support McCoy in Project Norjak....' Bob, How does a civilian get sentenced by a "Commander" to a military prison? This was pre NDAA, pre Patriot Act, pre Eric Holder saying that due process doesn't mean judicial process. We actually had some rights in 1968 when you claim to have been arrested. I must have been cutting when they taught this highly unorthodox criminal procedure in law school. Educate me. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31173 March 15, 2012 QuoteBK wroteQuote'I threatened my draft board and was arrested by Sgt. McCoy, Special Services. I was sentenced to four years at Leavenworth in March, 1968, by Commander John Anderson, suspended, to support McCoy in Project Norjak....' Bob, How does a civilian get sentenced by a "Commander" to a military prison? This was pre NDAA, pre Patriot Act, pre Eric Holder saying that due process doesn't mean judicial process. We actually had some rights in 1971. I must have been cutting when they taught this highly unorthodox criminal procedure in law school. Educate me. 377 March 1968. Exactly as I have stated. I know who Commander John Anderson was, and it was him, no question at all. Both him and McCoy in full military dress. Levinworth was full of guys like me, draft dodgers, card burners, etc. I remember a TV interview of a prisoner.... "We haven't done ANYTHING!" It happened. General LeMay was a mean son of a bitch. I'm going to bed. Screw it. Tomorrow is my Birthday. 69. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #31174 March 15, 2012 Happy Birthday Bob. Leavenworth is a Federal Prison. I think I was confusing it with Ft Leavenworth a military facility. What did USAF General LeMay have to do with your "case"? Gen LeMay was an active ham radio operator, like so many on this forum. Call signs included W6EZV. Coincidence? Hmmmm. QuoteLeMay was also an active amateur radio operator. He was famous for transmitting on amateur bands while flying aboard SAC bombers. Through amateur radio, LeMay became aware that the new Single Side Band technology offered significant advantages over the systems being used by SAC aircraft when operating long distances from their bases. In 1957 he implemented this technology as the radio standard for SAC bombers. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31175 March 15, 2012 Birth name Curtis Emerson LeMay Nickname "Old Iron Pants", "Bombs Away" LeMay Born November 15, 1906 Columbus, Ohio, United States Died October 1, 1990 (aged 83) March Air Force Base, California, United States Allegiance United States Service/branch United States Air Force United States Army Air Forces United States Army Air Corps United States Army Ohio National Guard Years of service 1928–65 Rank General Commands held Twentieth Air Force Strategic Air Command USAF Chief of Staff Battles/wars World War II Pacific Theatre General, USAF (Retired): February 1, 1965... gone by 1968"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
