georger 244 #31401 March 29, 2012 QuoteI don't think that is numbers on the clip. I have turned it upside down and side ways. I think it appears to be a reflection of the tie grain as it shadowed in the light of the camera. Note grains in tie match what some are saying are numbers. You don't have 8's upright and then lieing on their side. We could vote. How many see numbers? How many don't? Majority rules. Jo, take it from methese ARE NUMBERS and SYMBOLS! Let me try for a better bigger photo. I will add it here if and when I get a better phot - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31402 March 29, 2012 Quote others! First two digits read: "10(slash) . . ." You had previously said all real gold must be registered? Maybe that's the registration number? I dont know - just work here - bastards wont even pay me! . BTW you do good work! Seems to me those numbers would match up with some manufacturer ... in style, letter type, code , etc. Quantico probably has 10000 Gigs on tie clasps alone? Plated jewelry does not have to be stamped because there is little gold percentage on it, many companies do stamp them plated (10 ktp or 10kt gf gold filled) the problems I see is the location of the stamp and possibly light or flash disruption, you can see the light or flash on the top of the tie where the piece lines up with the tie, again only a hunch. If indeed numbers are there, yes I could almost say without a doubt that someone would remember the stamp! I spoke with Tom yesterday (PM wise) I think I asked him if any marks were on it, I'll check. right back at ya, on good work on your end as well I only asked Tom if a gold test was done on it, nothing about markings....way ta go Dave "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #31403 March 29, 2012 Quote Ok, while Cooper was on the plane they noted him to being in his 50's, later statements discount that and go as young as in his 30's, the description of him is all over the board, why am I in bold letters Quote Yes, the question of witness-reliability is paramount. This is made more problematic since Florence and Tina don't want to talk with us at the moment, and Alice is apparently very reluctant as well - and well-hidden since I can't find her. I understand that the many composite sketches reflect the divergence of opinion of the FAs, who were considered, at first I believe, to be the most reliable. Then some questions arose on that regard within the FBI and they reached out to passengers, which resulted in the composte B sketch, as I understand it. I'd love to hear more about Mr. Almstad's view on the Cooper pix. Jerry! Are you ever gonna tell us???? Nevertheless, I find the recent revelations by Geoffrey, via one of the passengers that DB C was 5'8", had marcelled hair and wore a russet jacket to be pretty wild. For the record, Almstad told me that he remembers Cooper looking pretty much like the sketches he had seen in the newspapers shortly after the incident, but he hadn't seen any pic of suspects other than Mel when I talked with him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31404 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote others! First two digits read: "10(slash) . . ." You had previously said all real gold must be registered? Maybe that's the registration number? I dont know - just work here - bastards wont even pay me! . BTW you do good work! Seems to me those numbers would match up with some manufacturer ... in style, letter type, code , etc. Quantico probably has 10000 Gigs on tie clasps alone? Plated jewelry does not have to be stamped because there is little gold percentage on it, many companies do stamp them plated (10 ktp or 10kt gf gold filled) the problems I see is the location of the stamp and possibly light or flash disruption, you can see the light or flash on the top of the tie where the piece lines up with the tie, again only a hunch. If indeed numbers are there, yes I could almost say without a doubt that someone would remember the stamp! I spoke with Tom yesterday (PM wise) I think I asked him if any marks were on it, I'll check. right back at ya, on good work on your end as well I only asked Tom if a gold test was done on it, nothing about markings....way ta go Dave Here. Two lines of symbols. Second line obscured by tie. Top row first symbol is a "period" followed by a "1" followed by a slashed-0, followed by a symbol (doesnt look like a numeral of letter ??? Hominid as good eyes and might read more. These are not light reflections, flash reflections, but actual symbols stamped into the artifact ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #31405 March 29, 2012 Quote We could vote. How many see numbers? How many don't? Majority rules. Jo, take it from methese ARE NUMBERS and SYMBOLS! Let me try for a better bigger photo. I will add it here if and when I get a better phot One can make anything of a shadow or mirrored reflection (which is what I think it is). If I wanted to force this I could say I see a F and R and K - get my point? They are the mirrored reflections created with the light of the camera on the medal in the shadow of the tie. If you try real hard you can read Kennedy.After a day like this one I needed a good laugh. Sorry it is at your expense so do not go getting your feathers ruffled.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31406 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote others! First two digits read: "10(slash) . . ." You had previously said all real gold must be registered? Maybe that's the registration number? I dont know - just work here - bastards wont even pay me! . BTW you do good work! Seems to me those numbers would match up with some manufacturer ... in style, letter type, code , etc. Quantico probably has 10000 Gigs on tie clasps alone? Plated jewelry does not have to be stamped because there is little gold percentage on it, many companies do stamp them plated (10 ktp or 10kt gf gold filled) the problems I see is the location of the stamp and possibly light or flash disruption, you can see the light or flash on the top of the tie where the piece lines up with the tie, again only a hunch. If indeed numbers are there, yes I could almost say without a doubt that someone would remember the stamp! I spoke with Tom yesterday (PM wise) I think I asked him if any marks were on it, I'll check. right back at ya, on good work on your end as well I only asked Tom if a gold test was done on it, nothing about markings....way ta go Dave Here. Two lines of symbols. Second line obscured by tie. Top row first symbol is a "period" followed by a "1" followed by a slashed-0, followed by a symbol (doesnt look like a numeral of letter ??? Hominid as good eyes and might read more. These are not light reflections, flash reflections, but actual symbols stamped into the artifact ... it looks very convincing, but it seems they would have wrote this into the clip description instead of Gold in color? let's hope we can get confirmation on this I'm going on Ebay and buying this sucker "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31407 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote We could vote. How many see numbers? How many don't? Majority rules. Jo, take it from methese ARE NUMBERS and SYMBOLS! Let me try for a better bigger photo. I will add it here if and when I get a better phot One can make anything of a shadow or mirrored reflection (which is what I think it is). If I wanted to force this I could say I see a F and R and K - get my point? They are the mirrored reflections created with the light of the camera on the medal in the shadow of the tie. If you try real hard you can read Kennedy.After a day like this one I needed a good laugh. Sorry it is at your expense so do not go getting your feathers ruffled. Jo. Its numbers and symbols of some kind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #31408 March 29, 2012 Georger - go to BED you are seeing things: You just made the statement below: Quote These are not light reflections, flash reflections, but actual symbols stamped into the artifact ... Georger, georgie if I looked REAL hard I could get Kress out of that - a company Duane's wife worked for in several locations. But, it is not numbers. Do you realize the size of the surface you are taking about and if it was stamped with any kind of marking it would be smooth and obvious. You guys are looking for messages in the clouds. Speaking of which I did see today - very briefly an ancient crucifix upside down in the clouds. The clouds around a very blue sky formed this image - one of those moments you wish you had a camera in hand.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31409 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote others! First two digits read: "10(slash) . . ." You had previously said all real gold must be registered? Maybe that's the registration number? I dont know - just work here - bastards wont even pay me! . BTW you do good work! Seems to me those numbers would match up with some manufacturer ... in style, letter type, code , etc. Quantico probably has 10000 Gigs on tie clasps alone? Plated jewelry does not have to be stamped because there is little gold percentage on it, many companies do stamp them plated (10 ktp or 10kt gf gold filled) the problems I see is the location of the stamp and possibly light or flash disruption, you can see the light or flash on the top of the tie where the piece lines up with the tie, again only a hunch. If indeed numbers are there, yes I could almost say without a doubt that someone would remember the stamp! I spoke with Tom yesterday (PM wise) I think I asked him if any marks were on it, I'll check. right back at ya, on good work on your end as well I only asked Tom if a gold test was done on it, nothing about markings....way ta go Dave Here. Two lines of symbols. Second line obscured by tie. Top row first symbol is a "period" followed by a "1" followed by a slashed-0, followed by a symbol (doesnt look like a numeral of letter ??? Hominid as good eyes and might read more. These are not light reflections, flash reflections, but actual symbols stamped into the artifact ... it looks very convincing, but it seems they would have wrote this into the clip description instead of Gold in color? let's hope we can get confirmation on this I'm going on Ebay and buying this sucker My feeling is Pennys is going to be a dead end, maybe even to the FBI. All their old buying records are long gone, I am told. It would be nice if the clasp could be linked to Pennys. There would have been a time when invoicing numbers would have tracked that clasp from maker to an individual Pennys store, if that is where Cooper got it. The clasp is a piece of hard evidence with a history. (no isotopic analysis needed here!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31410 March 29, 2012 Quote Georger - go to BED you are seeiong things: You just made the statement below: Quote These are not light reflections, flash reflections, but actual symbols stamped into the artifact ... Georger, georgie if I looked REAL hard I could get Kress out of that - a company Duane's wife worked for in several locations. But, it is not numbers. Do you realize the size of the surface you are taking about and if it was stamped with any kind of marking it would be smooth and obvious. You guys are looking for messages in the clouds. Speaking of which I did see today - very briefly an ancient crucifix upside down in the clouds. The clouds around a very blue sky formed this image - one of those moments you wish you had a camera in hand. Jo. Stop being Jo! Funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31411 March 29, 2012 One is on Ebay right now (see photo)"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31412 March 29, 2012 even if nothing comes of this Georger, we can say that we took it to then end! I found the whole thing rather interesting and educational. atleast we will not be the one's saying "I wonder if anyone checked on where that clip came from" others can say .....ask Dave ask Georger sound like anyone "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31413 March 29, 2012 Plated jewelry That first letter might just be a "J". See attached. Maybe do a search for obsolete Pennys product codes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31414 March 29, 2012 Quote Plated jewelry That first letter might just be a "J". See attached. I thought that a while back and said, oh crap JCPenny's as I said before it looks very good, but I am suspect about the location, let's hope you are right! If you are correct, I have to stop production on my video, leaving many without jobs and hungry children to feed "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31415 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Plated jewelry That first letter might just be a "J". See attached. I thought that a while back and said, oh crap JCPenny's as I said before it looks very good, but I am suspect about the location, let's hope you are right! If those symbols are stamped on that clasp Tom should know? If Tom doesnt confirm or deny I will ask a few others tomorrow - Tom's original photo has very good pixel resolution. I dont think I am dreaming this, at least I hope not. Look also at how rough that casting is. That's not Tiffany but a mass producted product. Why would there even be a code on that thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31416 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Plated jewelry That first letter might just be a "J". See attached. I thought that a while back and said, oh crap JCPenny's as I said before it looks very good, but I am suspect about the location, let's hope you are right! If those symbols are stamped on that clasp Tom should know? If Tom doesnt confirm or deny I will ask a few others tomorrow - Tom's original photo has very good pixel resolution. I dont think I am dreaming this, at least I hope not. Look also at how rough that casting is. That's not Tiffany but a mass producted product. Why would there even be a code on that thing? he sent me the photo's, don't know if they are any better. The piece looks to be form stamped, you can see the bending of the clip has a crease in it showing this was done after it was stamped. My guess would be that it was stamped, then they bent it and then put the alligator clip on."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31417 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Plated jewelry That first letter might just be a "J". See attached. I thought that a while back and said, oh crap JCPenny's as I said before it looks very good, but I am suspect about the location, let's hope you are right! If those symbols are stamped on that clasp Tom should know? If Tom doesnt confirm or deny I will ask a few others tomorrow - Tom's original photo has very good pixel resolution. I dont think I am dreaming this, at least I hope not. Look also at how rough that casting is. That's not Tiffany but a mass producted product. Why would there even be a code on that thing? he sent me the photo's, don't know if they are any better. will check in later - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31418 March 29, 2012 QuoteYou should send me the clip pictures, full file. I have the software and the technology to enhance them greatly. I did THIS four years back working from a 200mb NASA image. Funny! The photo is on Tom's webpage under TIE. I dont have to send you anything. By all means, do you NASA thingie. Maybe before youdo it you should speak to Tom to know exactly what Tom is contending ? Or go blind, and we will count this as a blind study. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31419 March 29, 2012 Let me explain to everyone - this has become extremely conplicatd and convoluted. Kaye apparantly will not come forward and simply present photo evidence, but is sending emails and photos out behind the scenes, those people are communictaing with me and sending me the same photos over and over again. Its going nowhere. Tom is contending (behind the scenes) this! Tom is contending what I am seeing as numerals are in fact mirror images of the wove in the fabric of the tie, reflected back from the smooth inside surface of the tie clasp. Tom apparently says he has photos which show no numerals and a smooth unblemished surface ... but he so far has not produced any of those photos! He keeps sending out the same old photo we already have, over and over again. Now Blevins has entered the picture with his miracle software which he says he processes NASA 100mb photos with - yippeekaiyo! That is all I know. (or care to know) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31420 March 29, 2012 I may pick up those images from the Citizen Sleuth guys. But those are for a website. Undoubtably the originals are much higher resolution and better to work with. I love NASA. They do everything they do on less than $20 billion a year. How much is that? Well, during the Iraq War it would fund that conflict for about a week. If the current yearly DOD budget were split into 365 equal daily payments, NASA would have to exist each year on five to six days' worth. Hmm...Reflections and Claims: I care not a whit about that. I would only work with the images and present whatever is there. Tom and company were the ones who actually examined the clip. If they say there were no ID marks, that's good enough for me. I think the purpose of enhanced images of the clip would be for possible ID purposes later, and nothing more. You need a big, hi res image, front, back, and indifferent. Here is a crop from the latest hi-res images K sent out tonight. K contends that what to some look like symbols are merely (mirror?) reflections .... of something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #31421 March 29, 2012 QuoteThose are NOT hi-res images. They are less than 100kb each. What we need are the originals, in PNG or Bitmap format. The actual file from the digital camera used to photograph the tie clip, via Tom Kaye. Not resized, not adjusted. The raw file from the digital snapshots. These vary in size according to the camera used, but the file size runs into the thousands of KB easily. With those, you can do something. Low-res JPEG images are useless. Those are for onscreen viewing or easy posting. And every time you save a JPEG file, it loses information. Lossless formats such as TIFF or PNG or Windows Bitmap are what is neeeded here to do anything with them. We can only post 300 parsecs here at Dropzone. Did I not say above, quote: "Here is a "C R O P" from the latest hi-res images K sent out tonight. You're the expert. You tell me what I said and meant! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31422 March 29, 2012 "The TRUTH about where the name CaretakerAl came from... " You can not be serious. I know you have no sense of humor, so this explanation is total Twilight Zone. I don't know anything about what you are recalling. It does not correlate to anything. Maybe you should stop, Jo. Think good thoughts, all of us could. http://www.youtube.com/watchv=pttF42BGqhU&feature=related Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31423 March 29, 2012 You were not in the party in 1968. You have NO IDEA of anything in Bloomington, MN. You said so yourself. His ex can't even remember stealing the rent money with her boyfriend! That's an awfully rotten memory. Good looking blond, you know. Terrible personality. Poor Duane. Taping his ears back was a suggestion from Cap, but Duane (Dan) didn't take too kindly to it. Your comment was after I told you about it 10 years ago. And I have NEVER referred to a camo chute, ever. Not snow white but light tanish, off-white color, not red and white like you told me. Your information is consistent at least. Usually wrong. You relied on fabricators for your information. Not your fault. You can automatically throw out anything said by the FBI, you know that now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31424 March 29, 2012 You tend to rely heavily on Pasternak and Gray to support your claims. You can't spell their names correctly, OR assume their correct opinions, as they have no facts. It is time to sit back and relax. Invite some friends over. This is really not important at all. Really. It's not. It's going on 44 years. It's old news. Historical bull. Very obscure dusty history that very old mentally crippled self-righteous ego-trippers argue about. Everybody's right except the other guy, or gal, who's ALWAYS wrong. Even when they're half right, just because. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31425 March 29, 2012 Robert, just take the pic off the website, it should be good enough if you have good software. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
