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DB Cooper

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you have entered the ........ Drop .... Zone.

"plop"

:D



Noooooo kidding B|
plop, plop, fiz, fiz....well, you know the rest :)

:D:ph34r:

:([:/]Well, it is all a big mess and as convoluted as it seems - it gets worse. No need to dicuss this because all of you know Duane and James Earl Ray were in the same prison at the same time. Ray escaped before Duane was released.

Supposedly according to the wife of the time - Ray's girlfriend or wife lived with her for a few wks, but she couldn't stand the smell of her cooking (I did not know what nationality the girlfriend was).

Some how Ray managed to have a girlfriend and loose a girl friend and get another one - all while he is RUNNING from the law and in prison. I was never able to make any sense of it.

I have in the past discussed an overnight trip around 1982/83 when Duane asked me if I wanted to keep him company on something he had to do. I have told about the strange things he said and did on that trip and then what happened in 1988.

I still to this day do NOT understand why the things were said and why certain things happened later. A strange string of happenings - I have felt better letting go of...these things.
It was one of those reflections that screamed - things about Duane Weber I didn't want to know. He was not a racist, but I still do NOT understand what he did and why. HE definitely did NOT stage the trip and the subsequent events right up to 1988. Some individuals prefer to distort anything I talk about concerning Duane's past.

Duane owed someone big time for something. As for Duane being involved in MLK's death - NO. Do I think he was involved in some sort of clean-up? Maybe! The sequence of events and happenings would indicate so - or just a strange string of unrelated co-incidental events.

ALL of the truths about Duane Weber will never be known. He had some strange connections and with the way the world is I am uncomfortable going there. I have tried to prove he was Cooper without digging up all of the crap.

If I proved he had mafia connections - would it prove he was Cooper?

If I proved he did a favor for a friend - would it prove he was Cooper?

If I proved he was involved in a covert group - would it prove he was Cooper?

If I proved he murdered a man in N. Orleans - would it prove he was Cooper?

There are those who prefer to fill in the blanks of Duane's life with a story fitting of whatever they want it to be. I stopped chasing all these things because they got in the way of what Duane actually wanted me to know. If he had not wanted someone to know he was Dan Cooper he would not have told me what he did.

NO one, but me wants to just prove he was Cooper - "they" want to throw all of the other things in to the heap and according to Georger and others Weber was just a bungling ex-con who couldn't stay out of prison.

So what was the REAL story behind this bungling ex-con? Was he a man who just wanted to be a good citizen and serve his country as the rest of his family had done? Did he feel betrayed by the system? Did he turn to crime out of self preservation after his Bad Conduct Discharge? Did he try to redeem himself from the life he had lived by becoming involved in things most of us turned our back on?

Who was the real Duane? I am not sure most of us will never really know. I just know he was Dan Cooper and that he was a kind man who would do anything he could to help you - even if he didn't like you. He could be angry and mean (you could see the rage), but he was always able to be in control and then try to make everything OK.

He may have been a bungling criminal as a young man, but something happened in 1962. His life started to change and then as late as 1968/69 the FBI was looking for him again. Why did they suddenly stop looking for him after the went to N.Orleans?

Will we ever know the REST of the Story?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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As you know, I've visited many prisons and done interviews with the inmates for one purpose or another. One thing these inmates have in common is that 'famous' criminals, especially murderers, will hardly acknowledge the existence of lower-level criminals like Duane. If Duane would have tried to 'be friends' with a guy like James Ray, Duane would have ended up getting tossed off a third level tier or having a shank stuck into his ribs.

Guys like Ray have their own friends, and those friends are also lifers. It's also a survival mechanism, for inmates doing long term sentences.

That's why they have Lifer's Clubs. I haven't checked, but it's possible that Ray wasn't even in General Population. Because he killed a black man loved by practically every other black person on the planet...they may have had him in more secure custody to prevent him being killed. I will check on this.

These files were released last year.



1967? That is all I have to say!
1967! This is when Duane and Ray were in prison at the same time? If Ray was SO high security how the hell did he slip out of prison so very easily?

Question for you Blevins? When was Martin Luther King Assinated?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Ray escaped from Missouri State Prison on April 23, 1967. King was killed on April 4, 1968.




WHew ! Now don't you feel stupid about the prior post saying Ray was high profile and no way he was in the Jefferson General population with Duane Weber (aka John Collins in 1967).

Ray in 1967 was just a common small time thief as supposedly Weber was.

What made you think Ray was so special - he was a small time two bit criminal. Since you know so much about Ray - why don't you recite his prior convictions - prisons and educational level?

What you said below:
Blevins stated:
"If Duane would have tried to 'be friends' with a guy like James Ray, Duane would have ended up getting tossed off a third level tier or having a shank stuck into his ribs".

Now for the real world Blevins,
Duane was the person younger prisoners like Ray sought out for protection. Do you know why?
Duane could look and sound gruff - he provided protection for younger prisoner to keep them from getting raped. Yes, such things went on in prisons all across the country. The first prison Weber was sentence to was the worst of the worst and
why his family pulled so many strings to keep him out of that system. Duane was several yrs young than the record showed when he was sentenced to McNeil.
He was barely 19 yet the prison file has him as being 24.

Does anyone out there think Duane Weber had grudge? I think he had a hard on for the system and a life that was stolen from him.


1.Tried to join the Navy before he was 16.
2. Was given a Bad Conduct Discharge because of a 90 day wonder.
3. Then managed to get into the Army while his family is fighting the government about the Bad Conduct Discharge.
4. After the Undesirable label placed on him by the army he could not even get a job.
5. He gets into trouble in Columbia.
6. He goes to CA - a place his family chose to escape the embarrassment and to find work.
7. Unable to find work - Duane gets into more trouble.
8. He is put on a program, but gets back into trouble and sent to McNeil.
9. The family has relatives and friends in the N.E. - something is worked out to keep him out of the McNeil population.
10. Duane's father has rejected him and so Duane goes to Chicago, but ends up in trouble.
11. Duane goes back to the N.E. the only place he felt wanted and needed.
12. I believe a child is born during this time.
13. Duane goes to CA around 1949 but ends up in SanQuentin and Folsom - serving the old Columbia sentence concurrently.
14. Father dies while he is in prison in 1956.
15. On probation in 1957 and and living with MOM goes to ST.Pete and MOM dies in 1958.
16. 1960 he is sentenced to Canon City and release in 1962.
17. 1962 - meets the woman he will spent the next 10yrs with, but living under the name of John Collins for 6 of those yrs.
18. 1966 sent to Jefferson and promised a commutation of sentence for a service.
19. 1968 Yea, he got that commutation under John Collins.
Duane Weber was supposed to get that commutation.
20. 1968 he and his wife go back to CO and the FBI comes looking for him - bummer what did they want now.
21. They flee to N.Orleans and suddenly the FBI stops looking for Duane Weber.
22. The family head to GA after some terrible things happened in N.Orleans.

What did Weber do for someone to get the FBI and the government to leave him alone?

What and how did Duane Weber hold the jobs he held?

Ex-cons cannot hold insurance sales licenses. He was licensed in several states.

Why was Weber constantly lookin over his shoulder and all around the room? Why did he tell me one time he had to keep a LOW profile?

How and why did he know where McCoy had been killed?

Why are the Cooper books and that book from the N.E about smokejumpers the only books I ever knew Weber to read during the earlier yrs of our life?

I could go on and on - but, there is enough room here for a GRUDGE - right?

P.S. While living with the wife of the 60's he is all over the country and they are together some of the time and he some times left her behind. 1962 to 1966 - those are the yrs the wife told me about....long story. She doesn't tell me everything about N.Orleans, but someone else did or at least what was experienced and the consequences.

Think about this - WHY the FBI or whoever was chasing Weber stopped in 1969? What did Weber do for someone - what was the price of this freedom?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Damn. Where are Earl Flatt and Lester Scruggs when you really need them?



Dead as you know. Scruggs died this year. Doc
Watson is dead too. His son is alive, I think,
likewise Roland C. Had them over to the cabin on
Ken Lake several times when my wife was taking
pottery at Murray State, but you were still in diapers.

See the two assholes on that camel ahead?
The camel knows 'red light' 'green light'. The
assholes think KC was DB Cooper and keep
promoting "no talent night" as if Doc and Roland
and Chris would show up, to pay tribute!

Get a life, Blevins.

:D

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I've been reading pages of Bob Knoss' rantings. BK, I liked you better before you started italicizing. Jo has a big ego, and is not truthful? I can't believe that's actually coming from you.
So what happened Bob? Get dropped when you were a baby? Potty training took a tragic turn? Always the last one picked for dodge ball in the 4th grade? Got stood up for the senior prom? Maybe too much big house basement buttsekts? Something must have happened....
Once in a while you actually make sense, you actually have something substantial to say. Too bad it's a rare occurrence. You're a trip dude. You're definitely not stupid, but I'm thinking you might be a little crazy.

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I think I'll quit worrying about that and bypass your comments quicker than I used to ditch my kid brother on Saturday mornings. :)



Your practise since you came to Dropzone says
otherwise.

But if you did, then I would benefit, as did your
brother who learnt you too.

Depression is your enemy not your friend, Blevins

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Good post, Jo. I'm curious about 1960-66 and possible California connections as John Collins to McCoy. I have references but no info at all. Talked to Terry M. but all he had was Colorado history and Maggie. Mac said he knew John in California. It is all blank.

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I've been reading pages of Bob Knoss' rantings. BK, I liked you better before you started italicizing. Jo has a big ego, and is not truthful? I can't believe that's actually coming from you.
So what happened Bob? Get dropped when you were a baby? Potty training took a tragic turn? Always the last one picked for dodge ball in the 4th grade? Got stood up for the senior prom? Maybe too much big house basement buttsekts? Something must have happened....
Once in a while you actually make sense, you actually have something substantial to say. Too bad it's a rare occurrence. You're a trip dude. You're definitely not stupid, but I'm thinking you might be a little crazy.



Thank you for your thoughts. Everyone is a little crazy, you know. Not everyone is opinionated, however. Tends to retard one's intellectual growth, methinks. Insanity might even enhance one's potential. Like 'Hannibal Lecter'.

You are invited for dinner. Come early, bring your liver and gafava beans. We'll toast you on your perspective. :)
"BK, I liked you better before you started italicizing."

Yah, I know. That's when MrShutter took over the question and answer sessions and facts turned to boring garbage!!

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Jo wrote

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At 19 he [Duane] was chucked out of the Navy - because he defended a girls honor when a 90 Day wonder forced himself on a young lady. Duane defended her and ended up getting kicked out of the Navy because of this.



A very heroic story, but I have my doubts that it is true. It takes quite a bit to get a bad conduct discharge. Sailors get into fights all the time. Those rarely result in discharges.

377


Not saying Jo's story is true on Duane, but '90-day wonder' indicates an officer, and striking a superior officer...well, yeah, you can get a BCD on that one, possibly. This is more likely also, if the person had not been in the service very long.

Not saying I BELIEVE those were the circumstances, but...

Knoss: What the heck are you talking about? 'Raoul?' That's the fictional character that James Earl Ray made up in an attempt to shift his blame for the King murder. And although there is no doubt that Ray had help (gun store owner where Ray bought rifle testified that TWO men were together and one was Ray, the other seemed to be giving him advice)...it's also true that Ray pulled the trigger on King and went to his grave in denial. You are SO full of it sometimes, I swear. :S

Do you just cherry-pick among the characters, real and imagined, from historical events and simply toss them into your fable at will? Sounds like it to me. Your story is completely convoluted and the end result is a twisted mess of mish-mash garbage full of false accusations. Along the way you slander innocent people who had nothing to do with pulling off the Cooper hijacking.

Get out of town. :S

Your talents are being wasted. You might want to enter yourself in THIS next year. (*laughs*)

You show up with that story, you are a winner.

Think about it: Cooper, airline safety, the Dead Guy, the FBI, 'Project Norjack,' LSD, Nixon, ('I am not a crook!') the Pilots' Union, the FAA, hypnosis, draft dodging Vietnam and your subsequent recruitment...and my personal fave, 'Tommy Gunn'. You could even say he had a brother named Peter. Easy winner. The audience will go nuts laughing...and you will get the trophy for sure.


Beans beans the musical fruit,
the more he eats the more he toots,
the more he toots the worse he feels,
so Blevins Blevins 24/7 on Beanzone -


You're starting to make as much sense and Knoss.
You don't like Blevins, we get it, now move on.

Matt


You have been here for years participating in
the "Cooper-thingy", as Blevins phrases it. So,
what's your "thingy" and how does it apply to the
Cooper-thingy-dada ? As an art form for thingy-
busters?

Surely you have something to contribute?


I made my offers, but you all would rather act like children and play your little games.

Personally this thread should be locked, you all should be banned and then this web page can go back to being a fun place for ACTUAL skydiver's.

Dan Cooper is dead, let the case go with him.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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You don't need to waste your time here, since you do not ever contribute anything anyway. Why don't you play checkers in the park with the rest of the bums?



Bob, before you cast doubt upon others, light still needs to be seen on your story!

you keep saying this is a "Kangaroo Court" and use the term "Badgering" I would mark you as a "Hostile Witness" by refusing to answer direct questions!

It's cold in here, anyone feel a DRAFT! B|

validate, validate, validate!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Personally this thread should be locked, you all should be banned and then this web page can go back to being a fun place for ACTUAL skydiver's.

Dan Cooper is dead, let the case go with him.

Matt



On the other hand, the world may be round and
the stars not fixed to the bar room ceiling at all!

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I agree to a certain extent with this being a actual skydiver's site, The Cooper part has skydiving in the story line and actual experience is no doubt a plus, what would happen if a "weatherman" decided to give input or ex FBI members want to give input? Red Lobster also has steak and hamburgers too. I'm sure lot's of people are tired of Knoss and I understand your frustration!

The point I see is that if Bob can not come up with ANYTHING credible and remains on this thread, perhaps a disclaimer should be put at the bottom of his postings (signature area) stating he can not prove anything said!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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That's when MrShutter took over the question and answer sessions and facts turned to boring garbage!!

Like I said before Knoss! you are avoiding the questions given to you! they are not hard one's that should have resulted in one simple post! I suggest you think long and hard on how much further you wish to continue to slowly tell the story (several years now)

bottom line is you are not credible!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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I've been reading pages of Bob Knoss' rantings. BK, I liked you better before you started italicizing. Jo has a big ego, and is not truthful? I can't believe that's actually coming from you.
So what happened Bob? Get dropped when you were a baby? Potty training took a tragic turn? Always the last one picked for dodge ball in the 4th grade? Got stood up for the senior prom? Maybe too much big house basement buttsekts? Something must have happened....
Once in a while you actually make sense, you actually have something substantial to say. Too bad it's a rare occurrence. You're a trip dude. You're definitely not stupid, but I'm thinking you might be a little crazy.



That right there is the best explanation....:ph34r::ph34r:

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My offer to do the math for the Release point and LZ still stands, yet none of the trip queens can agree on ANY weather, even though there is a a record of it, it is called wrong, by people who weren't even there.

Knoss' story has been proven false over and over and over. Yet he lingers.

He insults and makes personal attacks over and over, yet he is still posting.

So, some one get the winds aloft, I will do the math.
Some one get the point over the ground that the A/C reported the "bump" when they believe "Cooper" exited.

Then I will give you a pretty accurate search grid. Some thing Amazon and I have each had experience with.

Of course, this many years later you wont find any viable evidence, but it will put to rest a few half brained theories.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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No one listened to me at the start about Knoss, and look where we are now. Any posts I bother to make here containing REAL research or what I consider legitimate points are soon buried under a mountain of Knoss Fable.



I snipped the rest but, at least it was a semi congent post vs some flamming piece of nonsense ?

The point to the above is: nobody including you
NEEDED to tell us, or anyone else, about Knoss!
People here generally have good minds, and
the glamour of Knoss preceded him, and his very
words betrayed him quick - as Cline and Mrshutter
spent time in back-n-forth with him.

So your intercession was not required. A few of us
tried to tell YOU THAT, as youw ere busy TELLING
EVERYONE TO BEWARE AND KICK KNOSS OFF.

Some things are self evident and you are not the
caretaker of the Truth, even in reality.

Thats all there is to this - could there be more?
I dont think so.

As Sluggo tried to tell you over a year ago, you
are not CENTRAL to anything, except in your mind.
And now, if what Im told is true, you are behind the
last on the list, of those with whom XXXXX would
ever chose to deal with ... and that is the truth
and you 'are' central in that one! So you have
achieved a central position in something -

Remember Blevins: glue comes from the glue tree.

Do I have info I dont share here - is the Pope
Catholic? But I am not the only one. You pose a real
dilemma here which sooner or later will have to be
solved, and some have been working ont hat for
some time already - I sit and wait for the message.

But I dont think you care, in truth. I dont think
solutions are your purpose.





:S

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My offer to do the math for the Release point and LZ still stands, yet none of the trip queens can agree on ANY weather, even though there is a a record of it, it is called wrong, by people who weren't even there.

So, some one get the winds aloft, I will do the math.
Some one get the point over the ground that the A/C reported the "bump" when they believe "Cooper" exited.

Then I will give you a pretty accurate search grid.

Matt



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I agree with this concept, and I think it would help. Believe it or not, I think Georger has info on this.



Matt and Blevins, Where have you two been for the past year or two?

Didn't you notice any number or posts by Hominid a few weeks ago about the weather? And he included a discussion about the winds aloft using information from people who were there and measured the actual weather parameters.

The mathematics of the jump are simple. It is just what the clock read and the VOR and DME receivers read at the time of the jump that you need to come up with.

Surely a couple of "queens" such as yourselves can come up with such simple information. At least give it a try.

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I would trust you or Mattie with ANYTHING. I give you my hometown and you release a smear campaign to the editor of my hometown paper, my religious education teacher!

You, Sir, are a SNAKE!

It is your sworn duty, with your trainee, Mattie (who is a failure) to bury the truth about the Cooper hijacking for your exhaulted leader. EVERY SINGLE offering of truth, no matter how insignificant, is met with a major attack from you. You even tried to frame me with your other sight, posting false statements, then blaming me.

You take on the task of propagating a hoax about KC at the request of his brother, Lyle, after I got the proposal myself. Gray confirmed your guilt.

Any and all effort contributed is strictly on COVER-UP. If you are an advocate, we can all assume it is BULLSHET, and everyone does, automatically. You have NO credibility, only a reputation. They make fun of you on every other site. You have become the laughing stock of Cooperdom.

There is absolutely no question about my information. It is absolute truth, and I believe it is correct. There is a difference. I KNOW that everything that comes from your mouth is pre-digested, and most of it processed.

I suspect never before in history has so much effort been spent on trying to bury the truth of such a minor crime. The reason for that is that it was not really a crime, but, as I stated, a Government attempt to sway opinion. It is ridiculously obvious. Besides, I know that's what happened because I saw and heard and was told everything. So, bite me Bleep. Your thingy is up. You can't keep a promise. Time to email Gayla again.

As Sluggo tried to tell you over a year ago, you
are not CENTRAL to anything, except in your mind.
And now, if what Im told is true, you are behind the
last on the list, of those with whom XXXXX (TOG) would
ever chose to deal with ... and that is the truth
and you are central in that one!

I.,E., YOU ARE FIRED!! GET A JOB!!!

Sounds like you got your thingy in a slingy!

Robert99 says: Surely a couple of "queens" such as yourselves can come up with such simple information.

OMG!!!! Is this TRUE ??? QUEENIES ??? Could it be?

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I got a job. Two of them.

Quote

'There is absolutely no question about my information. It is absolute truth, and I believe it is correct.'



Fine. Great. Good. Any proof or evidence of the same? Everyone's read your version of events, but since many of your points fly in the face of reality on the case, your burden of proof is pretty high. Extraordinary claims require...as the saying goes.

And so far you have offered up zip, nada, nothing.

My basic position on the Cooper case is simple. I believe Kenny Christiansen is a strong suspect in the hijacking. I am also open to reasonable evidence that it was someone else. Key word there is 'evidence'.


My evidence will come in due time. I am not trying the case like you. You have ZERO evidence as well. Just falsehoods and speculation based on secondhand hearsay. Moreover, I know it to be intentional hoaxing. I see you've backed off in the strength of your statements, but we have enough history to hang you. Why not come clean and save your ass before the ship sinks? Like a rat jumping overboard. We could try to get you into one of those nice white collar places like Martha or Jimmy or even a politician. Wouldn't that be great?

1. Perpetrating a hoax.
2. Profiting from a crime after the fact.
3. Aiding and assisting after the fact.
4. Impersonating an author.
5. Fraud.
6. Tax evasion.
7. Ripping off senior hoarders.

:)

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No one listened to me at the start about Knoss, and look where we are now.



Blevins, you have been on this thread since August 1, 2010. And I can personally guarantee that Jo Weber and others have been critical of Bob Knoss from long before that date. So you just jumped on the anti-Knoss bandwagon.

Your humility in stating that "I still consider you [Georger] a smart guy and a pretty good expert on the Cooper case in general." is laughable.

First, you are no expert whatsoever on the Cooper case.

Second, I don't remember you even being listed as an author (third or otherwise) on the first edition of "Blast". Nevertheless, just recently you claimed that you were the author (no co-authors mentioned) and you were demanding that the FBI re-investigate something that they have already ruled out.

You need to read that line at the bottom of your posts. Why don't you join Knoss in an exodus.

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"First, you are no expert whatsoever on the Cooper case.'

Actually, he is well versed in cover-up topics and could probably list off all the bad information. So, does that make him an anti-expert? A BS announcer? Actually, he's small arms fire and Jerry Thomas is the big guns. Mattie is obstacle man in charge of wet cow pies and pablum, but can't hang on to his own spoon.

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HUH????

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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Damn. Where are Earl Flatt and Lester Scruggs when you really need them?



Wanna try agin there writer duuuuuuude


LOL....thanks...you beat me to it.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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I'll assume you mean the Amboy Chute. Their explanation is full of holes. Did you even read the article, take a look at the maps? If you swallow the FBI's explanation, fine. Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I'm not buying their story about it for a second. And I presented pretty solid evidence on WHY.

This Amboy chute 'explanation' from the Seattle FBI comes to you from the same folks who just last August were touting Marla Cooper as a 'viable witness'. :)

My point is, everyone has a few points to raise. Just
no need to be so strident about it, as if the fate of
the world depended on it? The planet will still turn on
its axis (eastward) and the Sun come up @ morning.
On that you can count ....1,2,3,4,5,6,... n

Sleep well.

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