Robert99 50
The answer is NOT as simple as you put it.
My answer is that the co-pilot stated he could see the Vancouver/Portland area (he put Vancouver 1st).
Further conversation at that time was consistent with my prior post. Also other posts I have made on this conversation.
I will note I had no knowledge of actual lay-outs of the area regarding the projected flight path. Why I was so upset about the map you guys used and claim the plane went over Tena's Bar. IT did NOT! His conversation DID not take that fight over Tena's bar, but to the EAST and the Vancouver area.
My answer is that the co-pilot stated he could see the Vancouver/Portland area (he put Vancouver 1st).
Further conversation at that time was consistent with my prior post. Also other posts I have made on this conversation.
I will note I had no knowledge of actual lay-outs of the area regarding the projected flight path. Why I was so upset about the map you guys used and claim the plane went over Tena's Bar. IT did NOT! His conversation DID not take that fight over Tena's bar, but to the EAST and the Vancouver area.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
I do not believe the co-pilot told me what I am getting ready to say - it seems this information came from another source so I will relate my concern in a QUESTION form:
Was this the Co-pilot's first flight in the WA/OR area?
I could swear I read or heard this during the 17 yrs I have been at this. I cannot say the co-pilot made this claim because I do NOT remember the source and it could be a rumor or hear-say.
Was this the Co-pilot's first flight in the WA/OR area?
I could swear I read or heard this during the 17 yrs I have been at this. I cannot say the co-pilot made this claim because I do NOT remember the source and it could be a rumor or hear-say.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteThe answer is NOT as simple as you put it.
My answer is that the co-pilot stated he could see the Vancouver/Portland area (he put Vancouver 1st).
Well that seems like a relatively straightforward
response to me, unless there is something you wish
to add. We will add you to the list of people who
have spoken in person to Rataczak, on this specific
issue.
BTW, this is not a popularity contest but a search
for facts.
Thanks.
G.
georger 244
I have never claimed to have any "unrevealed" data from the chase plane pilots.
Maybe you shared it with Blevins.
QuoteQuoteThe answer is NOT as simple as you put it.
My answer is that the co-pilot stated he could see the Vancouver/Portland area (he put Vancouver 1st).
Well that seems like a relatively straightforward
response to me, unless there is something you wish
to add. We will add you to the list of people who
have spoken in person to Rataczak, on this specific
issue.
BTW, this is not a popularity contest but a search
for facts.
Thanks.
G.
Well, I would win NO popularity test!
Back for a PS regarding my contact with the co-pilot:
I was outside in the backyard during my conversation with the co-pilot on my husband's cell phone so I could not make notes. Out of respect for my husband, I took or made any Cooper calls in the garage or outside using the cordless or his cell. He was aware of my involvement in this prior to our marriage, but I was discreet out of respect for him and his fight against cancer (diagnosed 6 months after we married).
I would love to get on the phone and call the co-pilot - but, I made a vow to myself not to harass them the way others have done. The conversations we had were very congenial and he seemed very sincere.
The most important call was the last phone call we had and this was just a couple of yrs ago. It is what he said at that time and his initiating the communication with an E-mail question. He found out I knew how to contact Tina - that connection was my fare-well, because I knew he knew how to reach me. I made arrangements for the connection with one phone call and then an email to him and he replied with a Thank You and confirmation of the contact by phone.
In this last discussion he indicated perhaps a unity effort in ending all of this and how he said it gave me hope.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
BobKnoss 0
"Was this the Co-pilot's first flight in the WA/OR area?
I could swear I read or heard this during the 17 yrs I have been at this. I cannot say the co-pilot made this claim because I do NOT remember the source and it could be a rumor or hear-say."
No. I believe there were practice runs as early as 1968. Very easy to get a holiday flight as the jobs were posted and pilots could sign up for specific flights ahead of time. You might even find records of how many times this was done.
Yes, He's baaaa-ck! Nice to see some pertinent discussion instead of continual Knoss harassment.
I could swear I read or heard this during the 17 yrs I have been at this. I cannot say the co-pilot made this claim because I do NOT remember the source and it could be a rumor or hear-say."
No. I believe there were practice runs as early as 1968. Very easy to get a holiday flight as the jobs were posted and pilots could sign up for specific flights ahead of time. You might even find records of how many times this was done.
Yes, He's baaaa-ck! Nice to see some pertinent discussion instead of continual Knoss harassment.
BobKnoss 0
"I will note I had no knowledge of actual lay-outs of the area regarding the projected flight path. Why I was so upset about the map you guys used and claim the plane went over Tena's Bar. IT did NOT! His conversation DID not take that fight over Tena's bar, but to the EAST and the Vancouver area."
That is what the current record is, Jo, but what was discussed in Ralph's, den at his retirement party was a correction in flight path information by the co-pilot to a shift in the flight plot to "15 to 20 miles West" of what was on record. This is in harmony with Janet's actual report. Her address was changed for her protection. It is consistent with McCoy's admission to having called upon and threatened Janet. AND it is consistent with Galen Cook's position that the flight was actually "35 miles" West of the recorded flight path.
You know without question that the FAA and FBI were conspirators, based upon your own statements. It takes no PHD to see the falsifications of information regarding flight information alterations, deletions, and re-writes. Facts do not lie, people do. People changed facts at every turn in this case. There is as much phony information as there is truth. You choose to believe too much phony stuff. Like this flight path baloney.
I don't KNOW where the real flight path was, but I know what I was briefed by the people who did it. I did not get the misinformation, I got the real skinny. Like O'Hara, I promised to keep this a secret, but I discovered that what they did to me was not legal, and I decided to blow a whistle on it. So I am. My whole story is factual, truthful, from the actual happenings and can be confirmed by people who will not confirm anything because they have more honor than I do. I did not volunteer, I was forced against my will. Coersed.
The only basis for your version of things is Duane's conversation. The rest is very. very questionable. You insist on facts I know to be falsifications, but claim to be the key to the case. Stick to what you got from Duane. That is correct. Don't cover for other participants or guess at facts. Everything was planned in reverse thinking so the obvious is always wrong. There is no logic, only distraction. There was no pearl tie clasp at Reno, only a medallion. There was no bomb, only wire and red sticks or flares. There was no dummy chute, only HIS own chute. There was no guess at a jump location, it was "HIS" location. And that's the real truth of the matter.
That is what the current record is, Jo, but what was discussed in Ralph's, den at his retirement party was a correction in flight path information by the co-pilot to a shift in the flight plot to "15 to 20 miles West" of what was on record. This is in harmony with Janet's actual report. Her address was changed for her protection. It is consistent with McCoy's admission to having called upon and threatened Janet. AND it is consistent with Galen Cook's position that the flight was actually "35 miles" West of the recorded flight path.
You know without question that the FAA and FBI were conspirators, based upon your own statements. It takes no PHD to see the falsifications of information regarding flight information alterations, deletions, and re-writes. Facts do not lie, people do. People changed facts at every turn in this case. There is as much phony information as there is truth. You choose to believe too much phony stuff. Like this flight path baloney.
I don't KNOW where the real flight path was, but I know what I was briefed by the people who did it. I did not get the misinformation, I got the real skinny. Like O'Hara, I promised to keep this a secret, but I discovered that what they did to me was not legal, and I decided to blow a whistle on it. So I am. My whole story is factual, truthful, from the actual happenings and can be confirmed by people who will not confirm anything because they have more honor than I do. I did not volunteer, I was forced against my will. Coersed.
The only basis for your version of things is Duane's conversation. The rest is very. very questionable. You insist on facts I know to be falsifications, but claim to be the key to the case. Stick to what you got from Duane. That is correct. Don't cover for other participants or guess at facts. Everything was planned in reverse thinking so the obvious is always wrong. There is no logic, only distraction. There was no pearl tie clasp at Reno, only a medallion. There was no bomb, only wire and red sticks or flares. There was no dummy chute, only HIS own chute. There was no guess at a jump location, it was "HIS" location. And that's the real truth of the matter.
mark 107
QuoteFacts do not lie, people do. People changed facts at every turn in this case. There is as much phony information as there is truth.
Every now and then, a gem. Thanks, Bob.
Mark
Jo Stated:
"I will note I had no knowledge of actual lay-outs of the area regarding the projected flight path. Why I was so upset about the map you guys used and claim the plane went over Tena's Bar. IT did NOT! His conversation DID not take that fight over Tena's bar, but to the EAST and the Vancouver area."
KB Replied:
That is what the current record is, Jo, but what was discussed in Ralph's, den at his retirement party was a correction in flight path information by the co-pilot to a shift in the flight plot to "15 to 20 miles West" of what was on record. This is in harmony with Janet's actual report. Her address was changed for her protection. It is consistent with McCoy's admission to having called upon and threatened Janet. AND it is consistent with Galen Cook's position that the flight was actually "35 miles" West of the recorded flight path.
======================
JO IS STATING FOR THE LAST TIME:
Mr. Knoss I will ask you ONE MORE LAST time respectfully - DO NOT answer or quote me in ANY POSTS you make and DO NOT reply to my posts. YOU and YOU alone take respectful and sincere first hand information and scramble it to destroy all objectivity anyone applies. Talk all you WANT about COOPER, but leave DUANE WEBER and JOHN COLLINS and JO WEBER OUT of the conversation.
The thread was back on target with SENSIBLE posts and NOW you are back with YOUR NONSENSE. You do NOT speak for the CO-PILOT and NOT present at Himmelsbach's party. THEREFORE please refrain from making any statement you do NOT have 1st hand KNOWLEDGE of.
You CANNOT and HAVE NOT proved YOU knew DUANE WEBER or JOHN COLLINS. YOU DO not know nor HAVE personal knowledge of a supposed siting by a witness, who you now claim has been relocated and silenced. GIBBERISH! EXPLOITATION!
You have never spoke to Janet - your statements about Janet are slanderous - YOU do not know Janet.
YOU have not spoke to the co-pilot and discussed any of this with him!
Your SLANDEROUS statements are getting ready to BACK FIRE on you. LEAVE me and Weber and Collins and any witness you have NOT actually spoke to OUT of your posts.
YOU think this thread and the people on it are simple minded children you can play games with. WE are real people with real concerns and most of us have REALLY investigated the subject and refrain from incriminating and making statements not derived at from 1st hand knowledge or well researched information.
You never knew Duane Weber or John Collins or his wife - so until you provide PROOF of this anything you have to say is null and void and in many cases slanderous. Look back at your creations - the ridiculous pictures you posted and your MAC and now you are slandering Janet - a woman you do not know and have never met. You do not make your statements subjectively you state them as fact.
You seek only to destroy facts and not to find new things or provide any substance to the case.
"I will note I had no knowledge of actual lay-outs of the area regarding the projected flight path. Why I was so upset about the map you guys used and claim the plane went over Tena's Bar. IT did NOT! His conversation DID not take that fight over Tena's bar, but to the EAST and the Vancouver area."
KB Replied:
That is what the current record is, Jo, but what was discussed in Ralph's, den at his retirement party was a correction in flight path information by the co-pilot to a shift in the flight plot to "15 to 20 miles West" of what was on record. This is in harmony with Janet's actual report. Her address was changed for her protection. It is consistent with McCoy's admission to having called upon and threatened Janet. AND it is consistent with Galen Cook's position that the flight was actually "35 miles" West of the recorded flight path.
======================
JO IS STATING FOR THE LAST TIME:
Mr. Knoss I will ask you ONE MORE LAST time respectfully - DO NOT answer or quote me in ANY POSTS you make and DO NOT reply to my posts. YOU and YOU alone take respectful and sincere first hand information and scramble it to destroy all objectivity anyone applies. Talk all you WANT about COOPER, but leave DUANE WEBER and JOHN COLLINS and JO WEBER OUT of the conversation.
The thread was back on target with SENSIBLE posts and NOW you are back with YOUR NONSENSE. You do NOT speak for the CO-PILOT and NOT present at Himmelsbach's party. THEREFORE please refrain from making any statement you do NOT have 1st hand KNOWLEDGE of.
You CANNOT and HAVE NOT proved YOU knew DUANE WEBER or JOHN COLLINS. YOU DO not know nor HAVE personal knowledge of a supposed siting by a witness, who you now claim has been relocated and silenced. GIBBERISH! EXPLOITATION!
You have never spoke to Janet - your statements about Janet are slanderous - YOU do not know Janet.
YOU have not spoke to the co-pilot and discussed any of this with him!
Your SLANDEROUS statements are getting ready to BACK FIRE on you. LEAVE me and Weber and Collins and any witness you have NOT actually spoke to OUT of your posts.
YOU think this thread and the people on it are simple minded children you can play games with. WE are real people with real concerns and most of us have REALLY investigated the subject and refrain from incriminating and making statements not derived at from 1st hand knowledge or well researched information.
You never knew Duane Weber or John Collins or his wife - so until you provide PROOF of this anything you have to say is null and void and in many cases slanderous. Look back at your creations - the ridiculous pictures you posted and your MAC and now you are slandering Janet - a woman you do not know and have never met. You do not make your statements subjectively you state them as fact.
You seek only to destroy facts and not to find new things or provide any substance to the case.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
BobKnoss 0
QuoteQuoteFacts do not lie, people do. People changed facts at every turn in this case. There is as much phony information as there is truth.
Every now and then, a gem. Thanks, Bob.
Mark
More important than it seems, Mark. The key to the case is in disemination, not insemination. If you can't distinguish fresh oats from used oats, you could get a plateful of some very bad stuff. The problem as I see it is the peddlers have never tried the farmer's grain storage bin. No investigation of why McCoy's medallion, no investigation of Janet, no serious study of the flight path, no transfer of information, counter intel always given on anything pertinent, the fake pearl clip, false wind reports, false weather reports, false army service records, deleted photos, actor stand-ins, altered transcripts and records, worse than Area 51 for getting real information.
If you can't identify the good oats, you are going to be munching the used stuff that's already been through the horse once. That is what those sentences mean. Good oats don't smell like a wet dog. This case does.
BobKnoss 0
QuoteJo Stated:
"I will note I had no knowledge of actual lay-outs of the area regarding the projected flight path. Why I was so upset about the map you guys used and claim the plane went over Tena's Bar. IT did NOT! His conversation DID not take that fight over Tena's bar, but to the EAST and the Vancouver area."
BK Replied:
That is what the current record is, Jo, but what was discussed in Ralph's, den at his retirement party was a correction in flight path information by the co-pilot to a shift in the flight plot to "15 to 20 miles West" of what was on record. This is in harmony with Janet's actual report. Her address was changed for her protection. It is consistent with McCoy's admission to having called upon and threatened Janet. AND it is consistent with Galen Cook's position that the flight was actually "35 miles" West of the recorded flight path.
======================
JO IS STATING FOR THE LAST TIME:
Mr. Knoss I will ask you ONE MORE LAST time respectfully - DO NOT answer or quote me in ANY POSTS you make and DO NOT reply to my posts. YOU and YOU alone take respectful and sincere first hand information and scramble it to destroy all objectivity anyone applies. Talk all you WANT about COOPER, but leave DUANE WEBER and JOHN COLLINS and JO WEBER OUT of the conversation.
The thread was back on target with SENSIBLE posts and NOW you are back with YOUR NONSENSE. You do NOT speak for the CO-PILOT and NOT present at Himmelsbach's party. THEREFORE please refrain from making any statement you do NOT have 1st hand KNOWLEDGE of.
You CANNOT and HAVE NOT proved YOU knew DUANE WEBER or JOHN COLLINS. YOU DO not know nor HAVE personal knowledge of a supposed siting by a witness, who you now claim has been relocated and silenced. GIBBERISH! EXPLOITATION!
You have never spoke to Janet - your statements about Janet are slanderous - YOU do not know Janet.
YOU have not spoke to the co-pilot and discussed any of this with him!
Your SLANDEROUS statements are getting ready to BACK FIRE on you. LEAVE me and Weber and Collins and any witness you have NOT actually spoke to OUT of your posts.
YOU think this thread and the people on it are simple minded children you can play games with. WE are real people with real concerns and most of us have REALLY investigated the subject and refrain from incriminating and making statements not derived at from 1st hand knowledge or well researched information.
You never knew Duane Weber or John Collins or his wife - so until you provide PROOF of this anything you have to say is null and void and in many cases slanderous. Look back at your creations - the ridiculous pictures you posted and your MAC and now you are slandering Janet - a woman you do not know and have never met. You do not make your statements subjectively you state them as fact.
You seek only to destroy facts and not to find new things or provide any substance to the case.
I seek only to correct facts I know to be in error. I try to emphasize those things I have been told were true by the people who did it. I an not "slandering" anybody. There are different opinions than yours which I have good reason to believe. I am going by general information, confidential conversation, press releases, public opinions, and common suppositions in all those references. I'm sorry you choose not to consider the possibilities. Your loss. I have given ample reference. The things I am pushing are different than the accepted facts. They are what reportedly happened, not what is currently assumed. What you believe, is your business. I have supporting information which I continue to offer assistance in researching. All anybody wants to do is micro-analyze what I consider to be phony evidence.
I do not know "Janet". What I stated about her is from written reports. It is quite different in the case of Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., Dan Cooper (AKA Duane Weber) and others. I have many, many hours spent with them, face to face. That is fact. The people who count, know, and that is good enough for me. I know, and for me, that's all it takes. I KNOW WHO DAN COOPER WAS because he told me his real name in front of a living witness. I have made a sworn affitdavit and it has been notorized. It was sworn in front of an acting judge on the second highest court in Minnesota. That is a done deal.
Please let's be cordial. Polite is good. Stop with the name calling and accusations. Please. I promise will try to be more controlled on how I state things, but please understand EVERYTHING on this forum is OPINION and NOTHING has been PROVEN (including your claimed husband's statements). It is ALL SPECULATION without confirming confessions. Larry Carr said the FBI can NOT try the case with extensive tampering and government involvement. Himmelsbach said he was quite sure nobody would be arrested while he was still alive. It is NOT a high priority case. They would love to be rid of it.
"most of us have REALLY investigated the subject and refrain from incriminating and making statements not derived at from 1st hand knowledge or well researched information."
One of us was actually part of the training program, Jo. Is that 1st hand enough? Well researched, like asking the guys myself?? Do you think you should research yourself?? I don't think I need to research myself either. I really think I can remember without having to ask myself questions. You just don't get it at all.
mrshutter45 21
your "Judge" is retired! Nick has no idea who you are! trust me on this! Jo If I was you I would make him tell his story in a real court!
I'm simply in a state of shock how BK is allowed to continue this!
Get a Lawyer and contact his little "Judge" buddy and finish this outside of a thread!
I'm simply in a state of shock how BK is allowed to continue this!
Get a Lawyer and contact his little "Judge" buddy and finish this outside of a thread!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
BobKnoss 0
Quoteyour "Judge" is retired! Nick has no idea who you are! trust me on this! Jo If I was you I would make him tell his story in a real court!
I'm simply in a state of shock how BK is allowed to continue this!
Get a Lawyer and contact his little "Judge" buddy and finish this outside of a thread!
I was not assigned to O'Hara. I was assigned to McCoy by Commander Anderson, not by O'Hara. I can refresh Mr. O'Hara's memory if he wishes. He will not take me up on that, guaranteed! I'd love to have him stop over and discuss it privately. He is a busy man, but this might be a great solution to this situation. At least I might get some straight answers. He has always refused to discuss it with me in the past. Said he does not work for those guys anymore, call them and talk to them. Please ask him to visit me. He will not take my calls as he knows who I am, Mr. Badgerman.
http://themountainnewswa.net/2012/04/10/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-interview-with-nick-ohara-the-fbi-agent-who-shot-skyjacker-richard-mccoy/
Matt
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
An extensive search of Hominid's posts here at Dropzone finds no word-associations for:
skyglow
cloud cover
visibility
seeing
seeing conditions
conditions
saw Portland
saw Vancouver
Rataczak
Anderson
Scott
etc
crew:
Hominid used the word 'crew' here about a dozen
times but with no reference to weather or visibility.
Example: Posts (Sep 30, 2011, 8:00 PM Post
#27096) and (Nov 30, 2011, 8:48 PM Post #29056)
and 11 times (Sep 29, 2011, 3:14 PM Post #27021)
I dont recall Hominid ever addressing the issue of
visibility specifically. Did you have something in
mind - some specific post? You keep citing Hominid.
The person addressing 'visibility' the most here,
Robert99, has been you, with numerous examples
in your posts too numerous to list.
Lets see what Hominid has to say about all of this -
Those are the facts at my disposal I see. No games.
Just facts and actual interviews of Rataczack,
Anderson, etc.
Again. You say you have data from the chase pilots
but havent revealed it.
If you want to know what the Portland visibility was on the evening of the hijacking, a good place to start would be the FAA hourly sequence reports for 8:00 and 9:00 PM. The visibility given in those reports were produced by trained weather people.
Aren't you the one who coughed up the weather data that Hominid used?
I have never claimed to have any "unrevealed" data from the chase plane pilots.