Robert99 50
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mrshutter45 21
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
This project?
Matt that is not what he sent me, but the small document within looks like to one he sent. I still have it - with all of the black outs.
Since I do not research that part of his story, I found the site you sent interesting. Information I was unaware of. I have not read the site other than to do a cursory a moment ago, but intend to read it in it's entirely this evening.
What are your opinions (from a military point of view) regarding the claims made by BK...regarding MKULTRA?
he is basing his whole story around this, that's why you can't research anything he says, it's the perfect thing to use in order to cover his deception! there is no way to prove or disprove him being in this project, who would say he was? so you can run with the story from that point on and not have any validation claims!
he is beyond normal conversation, ask him anything and you will spin in circles, his whole story runs round and round steadily growing and adapting to anything said to him! caretakeral to Knoss, the can, the milk can, the pail, a unsolved hijacking that has grown into parts that are not even related to the case such as porn stars, Rocky, movies claiming the pilots were in etc etc.
ask him about his exam/Induction period, you get miles of BS from one point to another drifting off subject. ask anyone else and they will say, I remember the day I got the letter in the mail! not Knoss, you get "I guess mid March"?
A lot of his story came from you and he is feeding off of your comments trying to make you look lost or delusional, the less you engage him the better you will be!
IMHO I think Knoss has become so involved around his story that he has become part of his story, deep down he might realize it's all a front in which would explain why he is not crying out to loud to the Public talking about his case, kind of feeling like he is safe here, I think we would see some progress about his claims if the actual Public got a hold of this story, my guess would be smoke coming off his shoes from reality setting in while running away from the media!
he is really pushing his limits putting words into peoples mouths that are not aware of his comments, such as Rataczak, Scott, Carr, O'Hara, he has really pushed it talking about Duane like you are not here! and then signing a document without any proof what so ever and claiming a Judge signed it as well? are you kidding me? If a Judge signed that "document" without anything backing it up would clearly be stupid IMO!
The fact of him not wanting to let go of this story and keeping it only on this thread tells me a lot about the validation of the claim!
he locked on to Quades statement about "opinions" not realizing his is just that, because without VALID proof he has a story or just a "opinion"
My guess would be if any of this was true, The Government would of been knocking on his door years ago telling him to refrain from anything about the project he was involved in!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
Guru312 0
QuoteNext time you send photos, please say what they are. Thank you.
No, the next time someone sends you photos DO NOT attach a bogus copyright to them. Unless the photographer transferred the copyright to you or your company neither you nor your company own the copyright to the pictures.
My guess is that you are guilty of a crime--maybe a federal crime?!--by claiming copyright for something which is not yours.
Jeesh, Blevins, for someone concerned about your copyrighted material you certainly have a strange attitude toward the copyrighted material of others.
Guru312
I am not DB Cooper
I am not DB Cooper
Robert99 50
QuoteWell, the pictures came to me only late last night, and I didn't have a lot of time to work on them. The two military ones are definitely KC. (Actually, NO. SEE EDIT BELOW) The NWA picture...I'm thinking no on it. There was no caption on that NWA picture.
What I did today was to research out the wings and insignia worn by NWA personnel, and make a little collage. I think the NWA picture could be Bill Rataczak. Tell you one thing, there is a definite resemblance between the two men. Kind of weird. Fooled me totally. Again...the old 'smirky' expression in some of the confirmed KC pictures was part of the reason I was fooled. I assumed the family sent it because it WAS KC. If so, they should have SAID it was him. Or if it was Rataczak, they should have said THAT. Because of the wings on the hat, I'm leaning toward Rataczak. Don't see where KC would be wearing those wings.
I'm going to contact KC's family and see if they can clear some of this up. I just posted the photos because they were interesting. I wasn't going to use the NWA photo in the Newsvine article anyway.
In any case...collage attached with some notes added to it.
EDIT: Some of the mystery has been solved. And I'm a bit irked at Christiansen's family for not providing info on the pictures. I just contacted one of them, the one who sent the military pictures. (Still waiting for an answer on the NWA photo)
The two military pictures are not of Kenny, but his father. World War 1 issue, of course. Why they bothered with sending these, I haven't a clue. They're nice to look at, but really have nothing to do with KC. I appreciate that some of you pointed out things about those pictures and made me go check. If you had ignored them, I might have posted them into the Newsvine article. Why the family sent them is still a mystery. We already KNOW KC's complete military service history.
As far as the NWA photo, KC and Rataczak certainly bear a resemblance. As I said, fooled me for sure. Sure, it COULD be KC, but why would he be wearing a hat with obvious pilots' wings? Doesn't make sense. I have informed the Christiansen family on something else:
Next time you send photos, please say what they are. Thank you.
Rataczak is the fellow on the right with the circular insignia on his hat. Compare with Rataczak's picture on page 47 of Tosaw's book.
In the old days, flight attendants also wore wings and the purser would probably have one strip on his/her(?) company jacket.
georger 244
Rataczak is the fellow on the right with the circular insignia on his hat. Compare with Rataczak's picture on page 47 of Tosaw's book.
In the old days, flight attendants also wore wings and the purser would probably have one strip on his/her(?) company jacket.
In the old days, flight attendants also wore wings and the purser would probably have one strip on his/her(?) company jacket.
and so I post my original photo again! with add ons.
Blevins can take credit for the ID if he wants.
How do you know its Rataczak?
Tosaw's book? Does Tosaw talk about Blevins posting his photo? Or show the same in his book?
Same piece of Blevins photo in Tosaw's book?
The label clearly says "F.O." in any event. I would assume that means Fugus Orgit, or maybe Flight Officer? Maybe "oh fudge" backwards?
Does Tosaw comment that, in his book?
Is it in RH's book too?
Back to Blev's original thesis. IS THIS KC IN THE PHOTO - YES OR NO!
A PHOTO SHOWING BOTH RATACZAK AND KENNY?
How old was Kenny vs Rat at this time?
Any idea who the other guy is?
BobKnoss 0
You can't tell Henry Selick from Richard McCoy, now you can't tell KC from Rataczak. That picture is NOT in Tosaw's book. I have a personalized copy. Hint: Bill does not have dimples, but he does have long sideburns and irregular ears. Selick on the otherhand, looks NOTHING like McCoy at all. Neither does the fake dead guy in Mac's uniform. KC always seems to look like he just swallowed the canary. Rataczak always seems to look like someone farted. McCoy looked like a skinny Curt Warner back in the day. But none of you ever met him other than the guy with the "gold mine," who posts on here. That's code, Jo.
Guru312 0
QuoteOur contract with the Christiansen's clearly states that any photos or materials sent to us by them that they own, and have anything to do with our research on Christiansen...by doing so they automatically release the rights to them to AB of Seattle to use as we please.. Also included in the contract is a special clause disallowing them from any payments as a result of any book, film, or other media related to that investigation.
I don't know why I even came back into the Cooper Vortex. I'll deal with myself tonight during my nightly flagellation for that dumbness.
For someone in the publishing business your knowledge of copyright is extremely shallow. Here is the deal, given your confusion on who is who and what in this mess, you have no idea who owns the copyright to the pictures. Even *IF* Christiansen is the subject of the pictures the likelyhood of the family holding the copyright is slim to none. Photograph copyright is owned by the photographer not the subject.
Why am I making a fuss about this? Because, YOU, Blevins, have the audacity--chutzpah is a better word--to put a copyright statement on photographs for which you obviously do not own the copyright.
You must be trying to impress someone, somehow. If you were paying attention, you'd realize that the impression you are making is certainly not favorable.
I'm bringing this up because of the ridiculousness of your stand on the DB issues.
If you can't get correct something as simple as who owns a copyright maybe you are in the wrong business.
It should be clear to everyone that you are here to sell books; not to figure out the mystery of DB Cooper.
Your arrogance is the issue. Prove you own the copyright to pictures or take your claim to copyright off of them.
Guru312
I am not DB Cooper
I am not DB Cooper
Robert99 50
Quote
Rataczak is the fellow on the right with the circular insignia on his hat. Compare with Rataczak's picture on page 47 of Tosaw's book.
In the old days, flight attendants also wore wings and the purser would probably have one strip on his/her(?) company jacket.
and so I post my original photo again! with add ons.
Blevins can take credit for the ID if he wants.
How do you know its Rataczak?
Tosaw's book? Does Tosaw talk about Blevins posting his photo? Or show the same in his book?
Same piece of Blevins photo in Tosaw's book?
The label clearly says "F.O." in any event. I would assume that means Fugus Orgit, or maybe Flight Officer? Maybe "oh fudge" backwards?
Does Tosaw comment that, in his book?
Is it in RH's book too?
Back to Blev's original thesis. IS THIS KC IN THE PHOTO - YES OR NO!
A PHOTO SHOWING BOTH RATACZAK AND KENNY?
How old was Kenny vs Rat at this time?
Any idea who the other guy is?
I was referring to the three photos in the "comparison2.gif" (112kb) attachment to Blevins post number 34446 which is the one I responded to.
pek771 0
R99, while catching up on my reading, I see you have been discussing AE and TIGHAR for some time. I brought this up only because I saw it in the news, and like Cooper, Earhart is a famous missing person who seemingly fell to Earth somewhere. I still have 60 pages left to get to here.
mrshutter45 21
This appears to be a Browning 1917 machine gun, this gun has been used in WW1 & 2 also used in Korea,
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
Robert99 50
QuoteR99, while catching up on my reading, I see you have been discussing AE and TIGHAR for some time. I brought this up only because I saw it in the news, and like Cooper, Earhart is a famous missing person who seemingly fell to Earth somewhere. I still have 60 pages left to get to here.
TIGHAR has an excellent web page on AE, perhaps the best web page I have ever seen on any subject. However, there is nothing in that web page that I can find to support Ric Gillespie's theory that AE ended up on Gardner Island (which is about 400 miles, or another three hours flying time, southeast of Howland Island).
Everything that AE did on that last morning indicated that she and Fred Noonan thought they were in the immediate vicinity of Howland Island and were trying to find it. Nothing was said about going anywhere else. And, in fact, they didn't have enough fuel to go anywhere else.
Even if they did head for Gardner Island or anyplace else, they would still in all probability have to fly a search pattern to locate their new destination. Aircraft celestial navigation was only accurate to about a 10 mile radius.
For a discussion of the aircraft celestial navigation aspects of the AE flight, see the work done by Gary LaPook who has been described as the best authority on aircraft celestial navigation now living. He has a web page which can be located by searching for his name on Google.
Very easy to find out if the pic of the "pilot" is the co-pilot. Blevins you supposedly had a phone interview set up with him so why don't you mail him a copy and just ASK or is that too simple and direct?
If you can't or won't or think he will not read your mail - send me a good copy and I will send it to him....it is very very simple to just ASK!
If you can't or won't or think he will not read your mail - send me a good copy and I will send it to him....it is very very simple to just ASK!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteThis appears to be a Browning 1917 machine gun, this gun has been used in WW1 & 2 also used in Korea,
The Lt. Val Browning mentioned in your first attachment was the son of the designer of the Browning M1917 machine gun.
A number of different models of this machine gun were produced over the years and the gun was reportedly still in use by some countries even after the end of the Vietnam war.
An air-cooled version of this machine gun was also manufactured. And I probably at least fired this particular gun for familiarization during my time in the military.
But in a fixed position, I would prefer a heavily sand-bagged 50 caliber machine gun. With the brackets holding the barrel in a fixed position installed, and firing one round at a time, you could almost put one round through the same hole in the target as the previous round at a distance of 50 yards or so. That gun was accurate.
The clothing in those pictures is ancient and the riding breeches could go back to the Spanish-American War.
The "tin" helmets were definitely WW1 types but I don't know when they were introduced or dis-continued. The winter clothing is also definitely WW1.
BK responded to my post in which there was a "code" word, but he did NOT get it.
If I told you guys what this code word was then he would quickly make-up something and include it in his story.
It may not be a "code" word, but it was a word that should have got BK's attention right off. He didn't blink an eye!
If I told you guys what this code word was then he would quickly make-up something and include it in his story.
It may not be a "code" word, but it was a word that should have got BK's attention right off. He didn't blink an eye!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteThis appears to be a Browning 1917 machine gun, this gun has been used in WW1 & 2 also used in Korea,
Thanks for the info, Shutter...but I already found out (belatedly) that the military pictures sent by the Christiansen family are NOT of Kenny, but his father. They are World War One vintage. The pictures, a group of a dozen, came to me in the mail from Lyle Christiansen's address without any enclosed letter, or any captions. I just figured they were more pics of Kenny, just like all the others they've sent over the past three years or so. I had to email a couple of Christiansen family members in Minnesota to find out what the heck they actually WERE.
I also asked them not to send any more pictures to my office without an accompanying letter detailing WHAT the pictures represent. Or at least caption them on the back or something.
I keep examining the NWA photo. It sure looks like Kenny to me. But what in the heck is he doing wearing those pilots' wings on his hat. I did some research on NWA insignia, and they don't really look like the wings NWA issued to pursers. I don't know...maybe Kenny borrowed the damn hat from the guy next to him. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong about the wings and they ARE purser wings.
Whatever...
If you want to see what "pilots wings" look like, take a peek at what is on Rataczak's coat (left breast).
Also, take a look at the stripes on KC's shoulders. One big one and one small one per side. To me, that means that KC was a purser and a senior purser (or management purser or international purser, take you pick). But a step above a standard purser.
The wings on KC's cap are not "pilots wings". They are just wings - period. In that era, the stews on some lines wore wings and on other lines they wore "half wings". Just about every airline employee wore wings of some kind.
Weird! There was another post by Blevins and one by myself that just went POOF. There may have been others or maybe that old lady who keeps showing up moved in with me.
I made a brief post about the "code" in my post and the source of it. POOF!
Yrs ago I received a call from an individual I was suprised had taken the time to contact me. I never discussed the call with ANYONE, because NO one would have believed me.
I never reveal the conversation, but after several yrs - I don't even know if this person is still alive and still with the government. I was able to verify the call - so it was not someone pulling one on me.
If BK was for real he would have caught the "code"
I made a brief post about the "code" in my post and the source of it. POOF!
Yrs ago I received a call from an individual I was suprised had taken the time to contact me. I never discussed the call with ANYONE, because NO one would have believed me.
I never reveal the conversation, but after several yrs - I don't even know if this person is still alive and still with the government. I was able to verify the call - so it was not someone pulling one on me.
If BK was for real he would have caught the "code"
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
BobKnoss 0
Quote
BK responded to my post in which there was a "code" word, but he did NOT get it.
If I told you guys what this code word was then he would quickly make-up something and include it in his story.
It may not be a "code" word, but it was a word that should have got BK's attention right off. He didn't blink an eye!
I am sick of your crap, too! You are out in left field again. I don't know any lawyer "Feisty". Never met him. Don't care to. I will tell you this, however. Some people who you think you know are not who you think they are at all! BIG surprise!! You would never guess in a million years. That's CODE! Think about THAT one, smarty pants! Got you dancing on a string! Speak English, I might trade you.
BK stated This:
QuoteI am sick of your crap, too! You are out in left field again. I don't know any lawyer "Feisty". Never met him. Don't care to. I will tell you this, however. Some people who you think you know are not who you think they are at all! BIG surprise!! .
Well, you are a REAL SUCKER for bait aren't you. A Lawyer? How would you know - Lawyer, FBI, CIA, Government or Covert?
Did I mention anyone's name?
You KNOW nothing about anything or anyone. You just continue to fall all over yourself when I post - it makes no difference what I say. I can mention a truth and you call it a lie. I can tell a lie and you invent more info for your story.
ONE last time - SHOW us the PROOF. NO more games out of you - If you really are a squealer - what the HELL else can "they" do to you? Those who know you already think you are crazy and delusional. You make things up as you go and use anything you can latch onto. ONE last Time - prove what you claim!
Guess "they or TOG" could have you LOCKED up or perhaps SILENCE you all together. I am sure if what you CLAIM is true - they figure everything is OK, because NO ONE Believes you. What if YOUR existence is an actual threat to National Security? What then?
Both Kennedy's were Silenced.
Hoffa was Silenced.
The weird man with the false eyebrows and wig was Silenced.
Why don't you go down to see the GANG...if any of them are still alive?
More than ONE person (namely BK) can pitch crap.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
BobKnoss 0
QuoteBK stated This:
QuoteI am sick of your crap, too! You are out in left field again. I don't know any lawyer "Feisty". Never met him. Don't care to. I will tell you this, however. Some people who you think you know are not who you think they are at all! BIG surprise!! .
Well, you are a REAL SUCKER for bait aren't you. A Lawyer? How would you know - Lawyer, FBI, CIA, Government or Covert?
Did I mention anyone's name?
You KNOW nothing about anything or anyone. You just continue to fall all over yourself when I post - it makes no difference what I say. I can mention a truth and you call it a lie. I can tell a lie and you invent more info for your story.
ONE last time - SHOW us the PROOF. NO more games out of you - If you really are a squealer - what the HELL else can "they" do to you? Those who know you already think you are crazy and delusional. You make things up as you go and use anything you can latch onto. ONE last Time - prove what you claim!
Guess "they or TOG" could have you LOCKED up or perhaps SILENCE you all together. I am sure if what you CLAIM is true - they figure everything is OK, because NO ONE Believes you. What if YOUR existence is an actual threat to National Security? What then?
Both Kennedy's were Silenced.
Hoffa was Silenced.
The weird man with the false eyebrows and wig was Silenced.
Why don't you go down to see the GANG...if any of them are still alive?
More than ONE person (namely BK) can pitch crap.
______________________________________________
Gee, you'd think someone would talk to me wouldn't you. All i get are threats of bodily harm from participants. (They, TOG). The FBI says to "keep doing what you are doing." Nobody else will take my calls. Just send messages like, "Tell him to have another drink." It takes me 6 months to drink a bottle of brandy. I'm not a big drinker. My attorney says not to talk with Jo Weber. We don't know who she really is. Hell, not sure SHE knows! All these phony stories about red and white parachutes and half intelligible "coded messages" that are secret "bait" for some unknown trap she is plotting with some obscure unrelated "facts" that have no bearing on anything anyway. We all humor her, but it just feeds the insanity, like Sluggo feared, over the edge. Jo, look at Blevins. THAT could happen to YOU, Jo! You don't have to play secret agent with me. Just ask the question straight up and I'll give you a straight honest answer. Happy to be of service.
Actually, I never pitch crap. I used to pitch peas into the pea viner with a pitchfork, but not since my broken back. I did clean half a gutter in the barn once. Don't like pitchin' crap. I'm telling the truth about the poster secret. What a wicked game you all play here. Regular soap opera.
Yes, I know they voted to "whack" Duane, too, for talking to you, and they would have if he hadn't died. That is a paraphrase from another McCoy quotation. Or did they help him along anyway?? Great Government we have, huh? And a population that is totally oblivious.
Are you sure that doesn't read "9th Ca." as in "9th Cavalry"? I'm absolutely certain that by the summer of 1945, the claimed date for those pictures, that KC would not be wearing riding breeches from an earlier era as he went through basic training or anything else.
And also keep in mind that the atomic bombs were dropped in the first 9 days of August 1945 and the surrender was signed in Tokyo Bay in mid-September 1945. So WW2 was basically over by the summer of 1945.
Again, my estimate is that those pictures were made prior to about 1935 and probably by members of a cavalry unit in the case of the riding breeches and who knows in the case of the machine gun.
Can you identify KC in each of those pictures?
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