mrshutter45 21 #33701 August 19, 2012 Quote I don't-a need no fancy coordinates. (Or a big, fine car for that matter) SE morning or evening. Venus, Jupiter, Spica, form a sort of triangle. Brightest one is Venus. can you spot "yer anus" from back there had to do it "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #33702 August 19, 2012 Here’s another perspective on …… perspective: http://www.prisonpolicy.org/zones/thousand_feet.html You can see just how nature gave us just enough vision to see things we want to eat or mate with, while avoiding things that want to eat us or do the other thing to us. Being ground pounding animals most of the time, having the vision of a hawk without being free of obstacles, would be a handicap. Try walking around the house with a pair of binoculars and see how you do. Not that I typically walk around my house peering through those things. Unless I’m Captain Ahab in search of a great white whale….. thar she bl …. Ummm… like I said, I don’t do that anyway. I thought this may be of use for those interested in top-down research for a change. This is where you stop digging once you hit a ‘no go’ condition. If someone says they observed Cooper from eight miles away; you can stop there. No need for their address, favorite color, who they like for the Super Bowl and any of the other stuff Cooper investigators give such high value. The same would be true for any other condition which typically defies the laws of physics for the universal reason that it is pure bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33703 August 19, 2012 "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #33704 August 19, 2012 I can see Venus from my back porch on a clear day. Can;t you? I dunno...never been on your back-porch. and you never will be. Never Say Never... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33705 August 19, 2012 Quote I don't-a need no fancy coordinates. (Or a big, fine car for that matter) SE morning or evening. Venus, Jupiter, Spica, form a sort of triangle. Brightest one is Venus. Or maybe it could be flares, tossed into the sky...that just happen to make a triangle. I knew you were lying! More made up shit. The issue was daytime sky! Not early morning which you now squeak in so readers wont know the difference. More flam flam from Sham Wow. You have never answered one straight question about anything of your claims since you joined this forum. I conclude: the truth is not why you are here! Do you often pick fights with lawyers, the FBI, etc? Do you act this way every place you go? The good news is: THE JANET STORY IS SAFE FROM YOU! KEEP UP THE GOOD WERK! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #33706 August 20, 2012 Blevins, Would you SHUT UP! PLEASE! These guys are working on this very very hard right now and with open minds. You do your thing and go into a recital of the SAME OLE STUFF. Stay on the subject at hand so we can explore ALL of the possibilities. Did you ever learn to RAISE you hand in CLASS? Your post was promotional and not relavent to the discussion at hand - stay on the page. Make a short post promoting your book, but STAY within the subject range. This is ABOUT the FLIGHT and THE possibilities of the landing ZONE. Not about Weber or Christiansen! This is about HOW he did it and to find a possible landing zone - not WHO DID IT!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33707 August 20, 2012 QuoteBlevins, Would you SHUT UP! PLEASE! It is demonic. Like water torture! Maybe if WE shut up, it will just keep talking to itself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33708 August 20, 2012 QuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass with that comment, either. That's just reality. I do support their efforts. If you could determine an exact spot (or close) you could do a ground search and perhaps find something left behind by the hijacker. Briefcase, chute, etc. Or the remains. Or something he discarded if he reached the ground safely. Easier to search a couple of square miles, rather than a hundred or more. I have no book. Just some interviews I'll send you free if you wish. (I made my email address public in my profile today) I started this project over a month ago thinking it would be pretty easy to recreate, Bzzz wrong, after reading two different transcripts one can go bonkers pretty quick, I'm trying my best to use the best information available in order to make this work, Hominid has been my Co-Pilot so to speak guiding and helping out with this with the knowledge he has. I would like to hear everyone's views about the flight path be it weather or anything to do with the path, you guys hold more information than I have and any help would be appreciated. If nothing is found and everything checks out, that's ok too we will now know this to be the real flight path and I learned a hell of a lot about flying a 727 and the Cooper flight path itself. I have along with Hominid put a lot of time into this making sure all avenues are checked, I would like more input from Robert99 if he would be so kind to jump aboard."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33709 August 20, 2012 Quote Quote Hey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass with that comment, either. That's just reality. I do support their efforts. If you could determine an exact spot (or close) you could do a ground search and perhaps find something left behind by the hijacker. Briefcase, chute, etc. Or the remains. Or something he discarded if he reached the ground safely. Easier to search a couple of square miles, rather than a hundred or more. I have no book. Just some interviews I'll send you free if you wish. (I made my email address public in my profile today) I started this project over a month ago thinking it would be pretty easy to recreate, Bzzz wrong, after reading two different transcripts one can go bonkers pretty quick, I'm trying my best to use the best information available in order to make this work, Hominid has been my Co-Pilot so to speak guiding and helping out with this with the knowledge he has. I would like to hear everyone's views about the flight path be it weather or anything to do with the path, you guys hold more information than I have and any help would be appreciated. If nothing is found and everything checks out, that's ok too we will now know this to be the real flight path and I learned a hell of a lot about flying a 727 and the Cooper flight path itself. I have along with Hominid put a lot of time into this making sure all avenues are checked, I would like more input from Robert99 if he would be so kind to jump aboard. Okay, just remember you asked for it. But here is the ONE TRUE FLIGHT PATH in all its gory details. I think there is general agreement that after taking off to the south from SEATAC the airliner proceeded on V-23 directly to the area of the Malay/Mayfield Intersection. The airliner was level at 10,000 feet several miles north of this intersection. I am writing this post from memory but if you want my exact numbers, you can find them on Sluggo's web page. Opinions differ on the route after the Malay Intersection. The Seattle ATC sector controller for that area swears that the airliner flew straight down the centerline of V-23. But he was also busy at the same time trying to set up an inteception of the airliner with some USAF aircraft. So he wasn't looking at his radar display all the time. While on the ground in Seattle, the airliner crew was informed that the Chief FAA Psychologist in Washington, DC was predicting that Cooper would take a hostage with him when he jumped and that he would blow the aircraft up as he was leaving it. In view of that cheering thought, Rataczak discussed flying over the Pacific Ocean so that if the aircraft was blown up the debris would not harm anyone on land. The NWA powers that be ruled that out. However, it is beyond my comprehension to think that Rataczak would then fly directly over the city of Portland. The finding of the money at Tena Bar in 1980 is, in my opinion, an extremely important clue as to the flight path. If you have visited that area (and I made it a point to do so in November 2009), you probably noticed that the NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee. This levee effectively eliminates the possibility of the money arriving at Tena Bar from an easterly direction. A careful study of aerial photographs and topographic charts leads me to believe that the money would have landed somewhere between the present "Flushing Channel", which was finished about 1980, the NW Lower River Road, the Columbia River itself, and the position where the money was found on the Fazio property. It should be remembered that there seems to be general agreement that the money had not spent much time in water, that it was found several feet above the normal Columbia River water level (which is only about 5 to 7 feet above sea level at Tena Bar), that the money was still connected to some rubber bands, and appeared not to have been at the location where it was found for very long. All of this suggests to me that the money had spent most of its time on land and probably hadn't travelled very far (maybe just a few hundred feet) from where it landed. Or to put it in plain English, I am saying that the airliner overflew Tena Bar. My long held opinion is that Cooper did not get an open parachute and that he died in the jump. The FBI notes contain a statement that at 8:22PM PST the airliner was 23 DME (or Nautical) miles south of PDX. If the airliner stayed on the V-23 centerline, it is questionable that it could have been at that position at that time. Communication time lags need to be included in this and they are not adequately established in the notes. But if the airliner flew a generally direct (not necessairly an exact straight line) between the Malay Intersection and the above point, then the airliner probably could have made it by that time. It should be noted also that a straight line between the area of the Malay Intersection and the above point will pass almost directly over Tena Bar. The flight path south of the above point is not relevant to the jump point determination. So where is Cooper? He could easily be under the sand between the point where the money was found and the "Flushing Channel" area. If you have lived on the Columbia River or one of its tributaries, and I have, then you surely noticed the vast quantity of sand that was moved downstream, especially during high water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33710 August 20, 2012 thanks for your help in this! as it stands right now I have made it to Toledo/Maylay at the time the NW transcripts show. 7:36 Take off average airspeed of 200 7:40 14 DME from SEA airspeed 160 flaps 30 degrees 7:43 19 DME airspeed 160 7;51 start my climb to 10,000 7:59 arrive at Maylay this was with a head wind of about 8 NM and also changing to 15 degree flaps, don't have my notes at the moment (getting ready for work) I think I also kicked it up to 170 KIAS if I'm not correct. I also noticed on Sluggo's site a take off time of 7:33 I found this to be incorrect by not being able to match any time frames unless I took off at 7:36. I have also spoken to Tom Kaye on the phone a couple a weeks ago and have things to add that I can not mention at this moment, it was something that I thought was going on but was not sure because it was not found on any transcripts, (cough cough) easier to follow the flight path! 19 NM out of SEA was pretty easy to calculate because you fly very close to McChord AFB this can be seen right after take off (lights) which happens to be about 19 NM from SEA jumping on V23 happens right after take off as it runs right by runway 16."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33711 August 20, 2012 how well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33712 August 20, 2012 Quotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. since you wont respond to email I guess I have no choice but to post here - If you recall, H and the helo flew to the Woodland area the nightof the HJ. Thearea was flooded with people searching thereafter ... 99s summary of my first interview with R2 is pretty accurate except 99 may be exaggerating the 'looked away from the radar' aspect. R2 was still convinced 305 never strayed, just as 99 says, "from the centerline of V23". Of course I fed R2's info to 99 because we were working together at the time. There were two more interviews with R2 in which he elaborated (in detail) all of the aspects 99 mentions here, because I included specific questions composed by 99, in my list of questions to ask. R2's interviews were followed up by other interviews. R2 felt rather strongly that Cooper could not have landed in the scenario 99 describes due mainly to a lack of proximity of 305 to Tena Bar. The USAF jets 99 refers to, were the T33's R2 helped launch and direct from the Ntl Air Guard base at PDX, after the F106's broke off with 305. R2 emphasized that the operator at PDX was NOT watching his radar as 305 flew by! That will be an issue for future comment. Hopfully more will follow later, if allowed. There are reasons why the FBi sticks to the Fp it does. Tom Kaye follows the FBI scenario for his own reasons I dont subscribe to. Likewise Kaye's socalled analysis of the money Blevins refers to from which Kaye concludes the money could not have been transported to TBar by natural means, but only by hand! I think there is nothing in Kaye's data to warrant that "astoundingly bad" conclusion - the one has nothing to do with the other any more than "USA negotiable currency" points to somebody in Manitoba, which was one Kaye team member's conclusion! I must breakoff. I have appointsments to keep and people waiting - on this BS! G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #33713 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass ...... water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 EXCEPT: You can't believe what is written because the information being generated was from the perpetrators. The deception is in the telling, Dr. Watson, not in the analysis. You have to work backwards from Janet and assume NOTHING. You are SO wrong it is humorous! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33714 August 20, 2012 Quote Quote how well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. since you wont respond to email I guess I have no choice but to post here - If you recall, H and the helo flew to the Woodland area the nightof the HJ. Thearea was flooded with people searching thereafter ... 99s summary of my first interview with R2 is pretty accurate except 99 may be exaggerating the 'looked away from the radar' aspect. R2 was still convinced 305 never strayed, just as 99 says, "from the centerline of V23". Of course I fed R2's info to 99 because we were working together at the time. There were two more interviews with R2 in which he elaborated (in detail) all of the aspects 99 mentions here, because I included specific questions composed by 99, in my list of questions to ask. R2's interviews were followed up by other interviews. R2 felt rather strongly that Cooper could not have landed in the scenario 99 describes due mainly to a lack of proximity of 305 to Tena Bar. The USAF jets 99 refers to, were the T33's R2 helped launch and direct from the Ntl Air Guard base at PDX, after the F106's broke off with 305. R2 emphasized that the operator at PDX was NOT watching his radar as 305 flew by! That will be an issue for future comment. Hopfully more will follow later, if allowed. G. Sorry G, was going to get to you, I'm battling the flu right now and was trying jam everything in before I wonder out into the hot sun for my work day that I seem to be putting off only have a half day of easy work but it's hard with your head all stuffed up "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33715 August 20, 2012 Bob, you are the main reason I have not included this site with my project, you have nothing of value to input, do me a favor and BACK OFF!!!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #33716 August 20, 2012 Those 106's are pretty loud planes. Their Engines sound as loud of not louder than the 727, and if pushing hard to catch up and then, going to max flaps and using power to not "drop like a rock" from the sky, they will make any land bound none plane expert think they hear two large jets in formation. When did they break off their flight and get replaced by the Trainers? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33717 August 20, 2012 One thing which will keep the flight simulation sane is the fact that it is removed and independent from the influences of this thread. Thank gawd. I’m talking about the firewalls put in place by Boeing, Microsoft and Mother Nature regarding the flight characteristics of a 727. No matter how often repeated, with associations to various phone conversations with alleged crewmembers, and the assorted bullshit which has polluted this subject for years, the plane will operate like one made on Earth. This is a damn fine thing too. Even with the input of all the self proclaimed professionals, this airframe will not be where they want it to be due to a force of will. Of course this will lead ‘them’ to modify their story with jet stream winds of several hundred knots to blow Cooper to their preselected location. This is the one constant I have found, bullshitters will keep bullshitting, till they arrive at the answer they already have. I’m 100% certain the winds will become the next hot topic, because the flight simulation simply will not provide what anyone needs to match their story. I’m a little surprised that there hasn’t been a request to enhance the simulation by placing a series of Airstream trailers along V-23. All in the interest of finding ‘the truth’ of course, because there were Airstream trailers in Washington and they should be represented, if anyone besides me cares about the truth, freedom and puppies. I predict that some people will learn that with flaps deployed (even at 2 degrees), the envelope of where 305 could have been at any given minute, is much smaller and less elastic than assumed. Watching the cajoling, lobbying and ham handed manipulation is oddly entertaining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33718 August 20, 2012 QuoteI did read Robert99's whole post, but I found this part the most interesting: Quote'This levee effectively eliminates the possibility of the money arriving at Tena Bar from an easterly direction...' How do you explain Tom Kaye's tests on the money that show (he believes) the money did not arrive by water? He's quoted as saying he thinks it arrived by 'non-natural means'. His Citizen Sleuths team does not disagree with this assessment. This also implies human hand involvement. And this: Quote'Or to put it in plain English, I am saying that the airliner overflew Tena Bar...' Tena Bar is a long way off the known flight path. Even I know that. Proof of this will be required. Blevins, I do basically agree with Tom Kaye if he is saying that the money did not travel by water very far (maybe a few hundred feet). Blevins, please define your term "known flight path" and who says what is the "known flight path". Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33719 August 20, 2012 Quotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33720 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass ...... water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 EXCEPT: You can't believe what is written because the information being generated was from the perpetrators. The deception is in the telling, Dr. Watson, not in the analysis. You have to work backwards from Janet and assume NOTHING. You are SO wrong it is humorous! Knoss, I continue to be amazed at how well you can type with your straight jacket on. Congratulations! Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #33721 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass ...... water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 EXCEPT: You can't believe what is written because the information being generated was from the perpetrators. The deception is in the telling, Dr. Watson, not in the analysis. You have to work backwards from Janet and assume NOTHING. You are SO wrong it is humorous! Knoss, I continue to be amazed at how well you can type with your straight jacket on. Congratulations! Robert99 Bravo! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33722 August 20, 2012 RobertMBlevins bizarrely suggests: “Go to Tom Kaye’s website and use the flight path he supports. Right or wrong, he's a smart guy.” What would the point be in using an already established flight path when the creation of an INDEPENDENT model is being attempted? Is it to prove that with the same answer two people can arrive at the same answer? WTF? The second sentence is even more perplexing or disturbing. “Right or wrong, he’s a smart guy.” Where I would wholeheartedly support the notion that being correct is typically a parameter associated with intelligence, the part giving equal weight to being wrong is simply ‘Jumping The Shark’ intellectually. How can someone be wrong all the time and be considered smart? Oh, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, that’s the prose of a genius. The Earth being flat is another savant example. Because you can be wrong and somehow be smart…… ummmm….. nope. I think that statement was little more than some fanboi spreading a pair of butt cheeks, then taking a very public and painfully long lick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33723 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar)"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33724 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) Would you and others on this list be interested in forming a group to actually search the Tena Bar area with metal detectors and Ground Penetrating Radar? After narrowing down all the possibilities, the total area to be searched would probably be less than one-half of a square mile. But several days would probably be required to do a thorough search. We would need permissions from the Fazio family and other property owners in that area. We would also need to weed out media types and/or anyone who just wanted to show up for a few minutes to get their picture taken and then go home and write a book or column. The ability to use the electronic equipment, knowledge as to how to use a shovel, and a willingness to sweat are essential. Any takers? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #33725 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) You won't get permission. If you did, there is nothing to find except a totally rusted 5 gallon milk can and cover. You two absolutely take the cake! And YOU think I should be wearing a straightjacket? HA! Youse twos should be sedated, chained together and seated with Georger to listen to another Blevins' KC Why Not recital. Kaye can serve crumpets and tea, whilst you all tease and ridicule me. I'm usually right and it's a really satisfying feeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 Next Page 1349 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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mrshutter45 21 #33714 August 20, 2012 Quote Quote how well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. since you wont respond to email I guess I have no choice but to post here - If you recall, H and the helo flew to the Woodland area the nightof the HJ. Thearea was flooded with people searching thereafter ... 99s summary of my first interview with R2 is pretty accurate except 99 may be exaggerating the 'looked away from the radar' aspect. R2 was still convinced 305 never strayed, just as 99 says, "from the centerline of V23". Of course I fed R2's info to 99 because we were working together at the time. There were two more interviews with R2 in which he elaborated (in detail) all of the aspects 99 mentions here, because I included specific questions composed by 99, in my list of questions to ask. R2's interviews were followed up by other interviews. R2 felt rather strongly that Cooper could not have landed in the scenario 99 describes due mainly to a lack of proximity of 305 to Tena Bar. The USAF jets 99 refers to, were the T33's R2 helped launch and direct from the Ntl Air Guard base at PDX, after the F106's broke off with 305. R2 emphasized that the operator at PDX was NOT watching his radar as 305 flew by! That will be an issue for future comment. Hopfully more will follow later, if allowed. G. Sorry G, was going to get to you, I'm battling the flu right now and was trying jam everything in before I wonder out into the hot sun for my work day that I seem to be putting off only have a half day of easy work but it's hard with your head all stuffed up "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33715 August 20, 2012 Bob, you are the main reason I have not included this site with my project, you have nothing of value to input, do me a favor and BACK OFF!!!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #33716 August 20, 2012 Those 106's are pretty loud planes. Their Engines sound as loud of not louder than the 727, and if pushing hard to catch up and then, going to max flaps and using power to not "drop like a rock" from the sky, they will make any land bound none plane expert think they hear two large jets in formation. When did they break off their flight and get replaced by the Trainers? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #33717 August 20, 2012 One thing which will keep the flight simulation sane is the fact that it is removed and independent from the influences of this thread. Thank gawd. I’m talking about the firewalls put in place by Boeing, Microsoft and Mother Nature regarding the flight characteristics of a 727. No matter how often repeated, with associations to various phone conversations with alleged crewmembers, and the assorted bullshit which has polluted this subject for years, the plane will operate like one made on Earth. This is a damn fine thing too. Even with the input of all the self proclaimed professionals, this airframe will not be where they want it to be due to a force of will. Of course this will lead ‘them’ to modify their story with jet stream winds of several hundred knots to blow Cooper to their preselected location. This is the one constant I have found, bullshitters will keep bullshitting, till they arrive at the answer they already have. I’m 100% certain the winds will become the next hot topic, because the flight simulation simply will not provide what anyone needs to match their story. I’m a little surprised that there hasn’t been a request to enhance the simulation by placing a series of Airstream trailers along V-23. All in the interest of finding ‘the truth’ of course, because there were Airstream trailers in Washington and they should be represented, if anyone besides me cares about the truth, freedom and puppies. I predict that some people will learn that with flaps deployed (even at 2 degrees), the envelope of where 305 could have been at any given minute, is much smaller and less elastic than assumed. Watching the cajoling, lobbying and ham handed manipulation is oddly entertaining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33718 August 20, 2012 QuoteI did read Robert99's whole post, but I found this part the most interesting: Quote'This levee effectively eliminates the possibility of the money arriving at Tena Bar from an easterly direction...' How do you explain Tom Kaye's tests on the money that show (he believes) the money did not arrive by water? He's quoted as saying he thinks it arrived by 'non-natural means'. His Citizen Sleuths team does not disagree with this assessment. This also implies human hand involvement. And this: Quote'Or to put it in plain English, I am saying that the airliner overflew Tena Bar...' Tena Bar is a long way off the known flight path. Even I know that. Proof of this will be required. Blevins, I do basically agree with Tom Kaye if he is saying that the money did not travel by water very far (maybe a few hundred feet). Blevins, please define your term "known flight path" and who says what is the "known flight path". Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33719 August 20, 2012 Quotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33720 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass ...... water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 EXCEPT: You can't believe what is written because the information being generated was from the perpetrators. The deception is in the telling, Dr. Watson, not in the analysis. You have to work backwards from Janet and assume NOTHING. You are SO wrong it is humorous! Knoss, I continue to be amazed at how well you can type with your straight jacket on. Congratulations! Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #33721 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass ...... water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 EXCEPT: You can't believe what is written because the information being generated was from the perpetrators. The deception is in the telling, Dr. Watson, not in the analysis. You have to work backwards from Janet and assume NOTHING. You are SO wrong it is humorous! Knoss, I continue to be amazed at how well you can type with your straight jacket on. Congratulations! Robert99 Bravo! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33722 August 20, 2012 RobertMBlevins bizarrely suggests: “Go to Tom Kaye’s website and use the flight path he supports. Right or wrong, he's a smart guy.” What would the point be in using an already established flight path when the creation of an INDEPENDENT model is being attempted? Is it to prove that with the same answer two people can arrive at the same answer? WTF? The second sentence is even more perplexing or disturbing. “Right or wrong, he’s a smart guy.” Where I would wholeheartedly support the notion that being correct is typically a parameter associated with intelligence, the part giving equal weight to being wrong is simply ‘Jumping The Shark’ intellectually. How can someone be wrong all the time and be considered smart? Oh, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, that’s the prose of a genius. The Earth being flat is another savant example. Because you can be wrong and somehow be smart…… ummmm….. nope. I think that statement was little more than some fanboi spreading a pair of butt cheeks, then taking a very public and painfully long lick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33723 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar)"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33724 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) Would you and others on this list be interested in forming a group to actually search the Tena Bar area with metal detectors and Ground Penetrating Radar? After narrowing down all the possibilities, the total area to be searched would probably be less than one-half of a square mile. But several days would probably be required to do a thorough search. We would need permissions from the Fazio family and other property owners in that area. We would also need to weed out media types and/or anyone who just wanted to show up for a few minutes to get their picture taken and then go home and write a book or column. The ability to use the electronic equipment, knowledge as to how to use a shovel, and a willingness to sweat are essential. Any takers? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #33725 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) You won't get permission. If you did, there is nothing to find except a totally rusted 5 gallon milk can and cover. You two absolutely take the cake! And YOU think I should be wearing a straightjacket? HA! Youse twos should be sedated, chained together and seated with Georger to listen to another Blevins' KC Why Not recital. Kaye can serve crumpets and tea, whilst you all tease and ridicule me. I'm usually right and it's a really satisfying feeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 Next Page 1349 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50 Go To Topic Listing
matthewcline 0 #33721 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHey, I don't care if they want to work on a possible landing zone. My hope is that they can determine exactly WHEN Cooper jumped, otherwise their calculations will be off by approximately three miles for each minute they are wrong. Not accounting for possible wind drift during the descent, of course. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass ...... water conditions. Whatever is left of Cooper and his equipment could still be under that sand in the Tena Bar area today. Robert99 EXCEPT: You can't believe what is written because the information being generated was from the perpetrators. The deception is in the telling, Dr. Watson, not in the analysis. You have to work backwards from Janet and assume NOTHING. You are SO wrong it is humorous! Knoss, I continue to be amazed at how well you can type with your straight jacket on. Congratulations! Robert99 Bravo! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33722 August 20, 2012 RobertMBlevins bizarrely suggests: “Go to Tom Kaye’s website and use the flight path he supports. Right or wrong, he's a smart guy.” What would the point be in using an already established flight path when the creation of an INDEPENDENT model is being attempted? Is it to prove that with the same answer two people can arrive at the same answer? WTF? The second sentence is even more perplexing or disturbing. “Right or wrong, he’s a smart guy.” Where I would wholeheartedly support the notion that being correct is typically a parameter associated with intelligence, the part giving equal weight to being wrong is simply ‘Jumping The Shark’ intellectually. How can someone be wrong all the time and be considered smart? Oh, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, that’s the prose of a genius. The Earth being flat is another savant example. Because you can be wrong and somehow be smart…… ummmm….. nope. I think that statement was little more than some fanboi spreading a pair of butt cheeks, then taking a very public and painfully long lick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33723 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar)"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33724 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) Would you and others on this list be interested in forming a group to actually search the Tena Bar area with metal detectors and Ground Penetrating Radar? After narrowing down all the possibilities, the total area to be searched would probably be less than one-half of a square mile. But several days would probably be required to do a thorough search. We would need permissions from the Fazio family and other property owners in that area. We would also need to weed out media types and/or anyone who just wanted to show up for a few minutes to get their picture taken and then go home and write a book or column. The ability to use the electronic equipment, knowledge as to how to use a shovel, and a willingness to sweat are essential. Any takers? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #33725 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) You won't get permission. If you did, there is nothing to find except a totally rusted 5 gallon milk can and cover. You two absolutely take the cake! And YOU think I should be wearing a straightjacket? HA! Youse twos should be sedated, chained together and seated with Georger to listen to another Blevins' KC Why Not recital. Kaye can serve crumpets and tea, whilst you all tease and ridicule me. I'm usually right and it's a really satisfying feeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 Next Page 1349 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50 Go To Topic Listing
Farflung 0 #33722 August 20, 2012 RobertMBlevins bizarrely suggests: “Go to Tom Kaye’s website and use the flight path he supports. Right or wrong, he's a smart guy.” What would the point be in using an already established flight path when the creation of an INDEPENDENT model is being attempted? Is it to prove that with the same answer two people can arrive at the same answer? WTF? The second sentence is even more perplexing or disturbing. “Right or wrong, he’s a smart guy.” Where I would wholeheartedly support the notion that being correct is typically a parameter associated with intelligence, the part giving equal weight to being wrong is simply ‘Jumping The Shark’ intellectually. How can someone be wrong all the time and be considered smart? Oh, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, that’s the prose of a genius. The Earth being flat is another savant example. Because you can be wrong and somehow be smart…… ummmm….. nope. I think that statement was little more than some fanboi spreading a pair of butt cheeks, then taking a very public and painfully long lick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33723 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar)"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33724 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) Would you and others on this list be interested in forming a group to actually search the Tena Bar area with metal detectors and Ground Penetrating Radar? After narrowing down all the possibilities, the total area to be searched would probably be less than one-half of a square mile. But several days would probably be required to do a thorough search. We would need permissions from the Fazio family and other property owners in that area. We would also need to weed out media types and/or anyone who just wanted to show up for a few minutes to get their picture taken and then go home and write a book or column. The ability to use the electronic equipment, knowledge as to how to use a shovel, and a willingness to sweat are essential. Any takers? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #33725 August 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotehow well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) You won't get permission. If you did, there is nothing to find except a totally rusted 5 gallon milk can and cover. You two absolutely take the cake! And YOU think I should be wearing a straightjacket? HA! Youse twos should be sedated, chained together and seated with Georger to listen to another Blevins' KC Why Not recital. Kaye can serve crumpets and tea, whilst you all tease and ridicule me. I'm usually right and it's a really satisfying feeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
