skyjack71 0 #33926 August 29, 2012 QuoteWhich one of you were on "Pawn Stars" last night selling a DB Cooper $20? Maybe it was you - after you left Unsolved Mysteries?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33927 August 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteRobertMBlevins quoted a source with: “Retired FBI agent Fuhrman (sic) was there and we talked about how the money at Tena Bar might actually support the idea the hijacker survived the jump, and guess what...wait for it...don't faint now...he AGREED with my concept that finding three bundles of the money together in the exact same spot, with nothing else being found might be evidence that the money was a plant. If you don't believe me, you can ask him yourself. He's the agent who interviewed the witnesses in Seattle, the passengers.” so? He said he agreed with your your concept , not that your concept was factually true . Once again Blevins you confuse concepts with facts and truth, and you present no facts that prove your concept . Fact: Nobody knows if it was three bundles. Nobody knows how much was in each bundle! Sources: Ckret, etal.... (Read the thread). Each bundle was banded. There is no rubber band evidence it was three bundles. No rubber band evidence it was three bundles has ever been cited by anyone including the FBI and Mr. Furhman. During your conversation with Furhman did he certify it was three bundles and three bundles only? Yes or No? Did he define what he was calling a bundle? Or, did he say anything about bundles at all? Fact: "Nothing else found" is disputed. Sources: Schreuder etal. Himmelsbach book. Auction company. etc . . . Is it Tom's concept or this an original concept by you and independent of any other source? Or are you borrowing Tom's original concept, calling it yours, and using it now as your own original creation? Has Fuhrman ever talked to Tom prior to you ever talking to Fuhrman? We have a lot of parties tossing around concepts . It would be good to know whose concepts are whose? concepts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33928 August 29, 2012 QuoteIf you will remember I asked you a simple question. One that if you found the answer to would make it obvious when "secret" things started to happen. The question was - Do you know the date the mother and children were killed by the Balloon Bomb? It was right after that the government knew they had to get some people on it and it had to be "SECRET". Jo, You keep getting these things backwards and generally wrong. The balloon bombs started appearing in the western United States in early November 1944 and just two days after the first ones were launched in Japan. Some reports about these balloons did appear in the media in the US and China (yes, China) and the Japanese were aware of these reports. I have seen a report that an article on the balloons appeared in Newsweek magazine about January 1, 1945. On January 4, 1945, the US Government asked the media not to publicize these sightings and reports. This was voluntary but the media cooperated. On May 5, 1945, a woman and five children were killed near Lakeview, Oregon when they found one of these balloons near their picnic site and started moving it or playing with it. These were the only people killed by these balloons. And on May 22, 1945 and after this incident, the US Government started publicizing the balloons and also started an educational program to warn all persons, especially children, about the balloons. I personally remember seeing one of those balloons in flight (being circled by a couple of P-38s) and I also remember that educational program. So to summarize, the Japanese launched the first balloons in the first few days of November 1944 and the first one was found in the US two days later. About two months after the first balloon was found in the US, the government started a voluntary media effort to not publish information about the balloons. That effort was abandoned on May 22, 1945 when the government started an effort to warn people of the balloons. Why do you keep saying that everything about the balloons was SECRET? The firefighters didn't need a security clearance to fight a forest fire. And at that time I wasn't even old enough to know what a security clearance was and didn't have one either. And I don't know of anyone in my fifth grade class who had a security clearance. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33929 August 29, 2012 QuoteHow common sense often triumphs over triviality: Amount of money found at Tena Bar: Approximately $5,800. Were the original bundles of bills packaged in varying amounts, but roughly equaled about $2,000 per bundle. Answer=YES. Were at least some portions of the recovered bills stuck together, and in alignment so much that the ink from the serial numbers bled into each other: Answer=YES. Does this information tell you that these were not simply a bunch of loose bills that washed up and aligned by themselves? Answer=YES. Quote Even you agree $5800 is an estimate. FACT: Originally reported in numerous interviews as being $20,000 estimated FACT: All bundles whatever their size/denomination were rubber banded as bundles. That is the only concrete thing that defined a bundle. No rubber band evidence ever existed to define the find as three bundles FACT: The auction company processing Ingram's portion (only Ingram's portion!) found and added at least 15 new serial numbers missed and not counted in the FBI's original list. FACT: Your borrowed concept from Tom that all bills found were in perfect alignment - is false . Tom's small sample may be statistically isolated, so far as anyone knows. The bleeding of print between bills may have happened at the bank. A temp over 60F is usually required for bleeding to happen, according to the US Treasury Forensic Division agent ___________ and most commonly happens when large piles of money are stacked in bank vaults.... otherwsie some chemical action is required - this issue could be further explored by seeing the original microfilm because every bill was photographed - yes? Tom didnt bother to add that factoid, nor have you because you are a concept- man, not an evidence man!. ! . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33930 August 29, 2012 QuoteYou can believe what you wish regarding those bills. And go ahead and place those results into the same folder where you have Geoff Gray saying THIS: Quote''Geof Gray ID'd you perfectly. "SMALL MAN SYNDROME. Completely untrustworthy ..... " If you are going to spout a bunch of BS like that, and put words into Gray's mouth he didn't say...then why should anyone believe you or any quotes you provide regarding anything else? You lied about this. Apology and retraction is required. Or at least a retraction. Gray talked/commented to lots of people about you at the time. You were a very controversial topic, and Gray had no affection for you, to say the very least! Take it or leave it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #33931 August 29, 2012 Our Production Crew was out there a few times the last couple of years, and we had the luck of meeting the Pawn Stars Crew at a gear house. They do pick the items for the show, there is ususally a long line out the door on filming days and an associate producer screening items. On none filming days it is a busy pawn shop with many customers coming in trying to get on TV. Jo has lost her Objectivity, so I will not waist any more time with her inaccuracies. Bob, well his ship sunk a long time ago. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33932 August 29, 2012 Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33933 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33934 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33935 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 Yes (laughing) Your last sentence is correct, I think. Galen and I dont discuss suspects much, so Im not sure who Galen supports or is most interested in, at present. Our mutual interest is in 'evidence in the case' and we have worked rather closely together on this several times, and have been able to carryon long discussions about this and that, in the background. I think you and Tosaw would have had some good discussions. Galen believes that Cooper survived. Tosaw did not. I think Tosaw believed that Cooper had dropped to his death further downstream than the area you have identified. Tosaw conducted a number of searches of wingdam areas, some close to Tena Bar and then further downstream. Galen spent time with Tosaw during some of these searches. And some of the debris Tosaw's divers found was turned over to the FBI for analysis - that is the 'parachute materials' reference in the article Blevins just posted. You can just email Galen any questions you have. Im sure he would be very open to talking to you - or maybe use the discussion group over at Sluggo's website ? I will mention this: one of Galen's recent interests has been the decible level Cooper experienced at the stairs. It's my understanding people on the test team used ear protection, sodidnt experience the same decible levels Cooper may have ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33936 August 29, 2012 QuoteI think Tosaw believed that Cooper had dropped to his death further downstream than the area you have identified. Georger, are you sure that you don't mean "upstream", which would be to the south from Tena Bar, instead of "downstream", which would be to the north of Tena Bar and where the money was found? QuoteI will mention this: one of Galen's recent interests has been the decible level Cooper experienced at the stairs. It's my understanding people on the test team used ear protection, so didnt experience the same decible levels Cooper may have ? Georger, Galen Cook may be on to something here. Remember that the 727 had very early model turbine engines and they were noisy. The aircraft was flying on the "backside of the power curve" so the engines would have been at a rather high power level. The power level can probably be determined from the fuel flow to each engine which the FBI notes give as 4000 pounds per engine per hour when the airliner was in the Portland area. If the sound level on the stairs adjacent to the three engines reached a level of 140 to 150 db, then it is possible that Cooper could have lost consciousness if he paused there for several seconds. If that happened, then he may have fallen off the stairs rather than jumped. And he could have been on the ground 40 seconds later. That is not enough time for him to regain his "senses". Perhaps someone on the thread with acoustics training and access to 727 flight manuals for the early production engines could help Cook on this matter. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Afrdohgts 0 #33937 August 29, 2012 Would Cooper's body be found near Ingram picnic site? If Cooper died from the jump what are the dynamics of the situation if he hit the Lewis River? Would it be too much of a struggle to make it out of the cold river with all that stuff on him? He would have to cut the chute loose quickly. His clothing would also suck up the weight of the water making it more difficult to stay afloat. At the same time he has to keep possession of the money bag. And brief case? If he drowned with an open chute his body flows to the Columbia and gets snagged by a commercial boat prop and heads upstream? Is there a commercial boat log for that time period? What happens to a body/remains in that river? Does it eventually float? Would a boat prop scramble the remains eventually? Would fish eat the remains? The money find shows that Cooper lost control of the situation; at least to an extent. I don't think that bodes well for Cooper's survival. Was there even a good place for Cooper to land in that area? The parachuting aspect of his crime seems to contrast the actual hijacking in attention to detail and control over the situation. I haven't jumped even once so I came here to read what actual jumpers have to say; especially about Coopers choice of the round chute over the sport chute. Does it suggest a familiarity with the round chute and perhaps some distance in time from his jumping days? Was the sport chute a newer chute for 1971? thanks in advance Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33938 August 29, 2012 The reason no one agrees with any two things is because they already have their answer and refuse to admit to this simple fact. There’s information which is confidential and for some bizarre reason given greater weight for being accurate. If you already know the answer to who Cooper is, then I don’t understand why you would waste one second on this thread, if not to sell something. I wouldn’t take a history course to learn who fought in the Battle of Big Sandy Creek if I already knew the story. So why are the Kenny and Sheridan torchbearers even on this thread? That makes the LEAST amount of sense. Unless there is some warped view that keeping everything else in chaos makes their candidates more viable. I’m open to any and all subjects that can be supported by fact, science or theorem. As soon as some subject is discussed which does not align with some pre-existing belief system, it then must be killed. Killed. No source attribution or evidence, killed. None asked for either, killed. Could Cooper’s body have pranged into the environs of Tena Bar? That money find supports that line of thought. Could Cooper have been preserved on Tomahawk Island before being dislodged by heavy construction? The fact that Tomahawk is directly below V-23 and the massive construction efforts support this also (also). Could Cooper have jumped and drifted to Guam? There aren’t any case studies or scientific data to support such a theory. Ultimately if I believe that Cooper is some guy named Dave who survived, then I must kill any discussions which involve his death. Kill it. Same for those who ‘know’ he died, any suggestion of surviving must die. This is the dirty tango which has been repeated for years under the self proclaimed banner of searching for the truth. How loud was Flight 305? I’d say the same level as Heady’s, LaPoint’s, McNally’s and McCoy’s aircraft. Were any of them disturbed by the jets? Does anyone ever try to check existing data first? Why can’t anyone get an FBI file on those losers? Too un-sexy, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #33939 August 29, 2012 Quote Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 You pretty much nailed that one....except I think Cook's support is for the letters to be analyzed, but his candidate is Gossett. Unless he's switched sides. ? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sailshaw 0 #33940 August 30, 2012 Robert99 You say "As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw." Yes, Sheridan is alive and well in California and survived the jump. I have been giving some thought (in my sleep and that is dangerous) about why Sheridan titled his book "The Idiot's Frightfull Laughter" My conclusion is that Sheridan even thought of himself as an Idiot for doing the Caper and during the jump he remembers laughing all the way to the ground but it was Frightfull due to the danger of a night jump into bad weather and not too certain about the landing spot. Galen has been talking with the Seattle FBI and he thinks they believe that the four letters to the newspapers were written by DB Cooper due to the clues in decoded letters that no one but BD would have known. If the FBI obtains the DNA from the letters/stamps (especially letter #3) and it matches what they have on file for Sheridan. I believe the case will finally be solved and the FBI will get their man. I believe this is a hot topic within the Seattle FBI and would not be surprised that letter #3 is presently in the Quantico, VA DNA lab. This will blow Farflung's mind as he did not think of it himself. 73's and have another banana OM! Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33941 August 30, 2012 If I had to play the odds game, I would gamble that he hit land, if the flight path from the FBI is correct then he should of hit land vs water. If you look at 99's situation I believe he might be fish food or close to the Columbia (catepiller up past Tena Bar) or possibly landing on Hayden I don't know? Hayden would be a long shot since Farf pointed out lots of "mens" working on that Island and you figure the "mens" would of found something "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33942 August 30, 2012 QuoteThe reason no one agrees with any two things is because they already have their answer and refuse to admit to this simple fact. There’s information which is confidential and for some bizarre reason given greater weight for being accurate. If you already know the answer to who Cooper is, then I don’t understand why you would waste one second on this thread, if not to sell something. I wouldn’t take a history course to learn who fought in the Battle of Big Sandy Creek if I already knew the story. So why are the Kenny and Sheridan torchbearers even on this thread? That makes the LEAST amount of sense. Unless there is some warped view that keeping everything else in chaos makes their candidates more viable. I’m open to any and all subjects that can be supported by fact, science or theorem. As soon as some subject is discussed which does not align with some pre-existing belief system, it then must be killed. Killed. No source attribution or evidence, killed. None asked for either, killed. Could Cooper’s body have pranged into the environs of Tena Bar? That money find supports that line of thought. Could Cooper have been preserved on Tomahawk Island before being dislodged by heavy construction? The fact that Tomahawk is directly below V-23 and the massive construction efforts support this also (also). Could Cooper have jumped and drifted to Guam? There aren’t any case studies or scientific data to support such a theory. Ultimately if I believe that Cooper is some guy named Dave who survived, then I must kill any discussions which involve his death. Kill it. Same for those who ‘know’ he died, any suggestion of surviving must die. This is the dirty tango which has been repeated for years under the self proclaimed banner of searching for the truth. How loud was Flight 305? I’d say the same level as Heady’s, LaPoint’s, McNally’s and McCoy’s aircraft. Were any of them disturbed by the jets? Does anyone ever try to check existing data first? Why can’t anyone get an FBI file on those losers? Too un-sexy, I guess. Would 377 be willing to comment on the noise fields he experienced while jumping from DC-9s? I think they had basically the same engines when introduced as the 727 had when it was introduced about two years earlier. Just free falling through the noise field shouldn't have a major impact on the jumper. But it might have if the jumper was exposed to the noise fields for several seconds if, for instance, he stopped on the stairs. But we need an acoustics expert to explain the possible human factor problems caused by extremely high noise fields. And about 140 to 150 db would sound like the end of the world. The construction of the flushing channel, about 3.5 miles uupstream of Tena Bar, could have dislodged Cooper and the money if he was in that area. The flushing channel was built shortly before the money was found at Tena Bar. Also, early topographic maps indicated that the area between Catepillar Island and the mainland was a mud flat. If Cooper had hit that, he would probably still be sinking. But that mud flat has now been dredged and Kadow's Caterpillar Island Marina has been built there. Some of the boats I saw there appeared to have a draft of several feet. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33943 August 30, 2012 That’s what I’m not so sure about Mrshutter45. With all those mens and their huge equipments just mauling and clawing at the bed, of the river, would anything have been noticed by the glistening mens? They were likely contracted to strip everything on that island bare (oh my), and had to transport the overburden somehow. From 1970 to 1989 there were four marinas constructed so all the Portland area pirates would have a place, to slip their sloop (I feel faint again). Someone strapped to one of those throbbing beasts for eight hours a day is not looking for any suspicious debris and the view is not like that in one’s car. How many murder victims found their final resting place in a municipal dump? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY I’m not saying it did happen, but ignoring something as vast as that project which is directly below V-23, in favor of something less likely (more complex) violates Occam in ways I’ve only dreamed about. How was that overburden transported? Heaped in a barge and moved by Tena Bar? I don’t have a clue and was soundly told, with amazing authority, that there was no clamshell dredging on the Columbia and the Army Corps of Engineers is the only organization to do that anyway, so there. This was going on while I was gazing at aerials of Tomahawk Island being molested with all those mens and their equipments. But that was over a year ago, so it has been erased from reality again. I don’t put a high probability on such a situation, but I most definitely assign a value greater than zero. But with all the panic and unbridled fear of the subject, it’s best to stay buried, deep in some dark recess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90&feature=related Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #33944 August 30, 2012 Quote Why do you keep saying that everything about the balloons was SECRET? The firefighters didn't need a security clearance to fight a forest fire. And at that time I wasn't even old enough to know what a security clearance was and didn't have one either. And I don't know of anyone in my fifth grade class who had a security clearance. Robert99 I did NOT say anything about Security clearance. I said they wanted to keep the balloons SECRET because they did NOT want to alarm the public. They were concerned about Chemical WARFARE. Note the date of Duane's uncle being recalled. It is in the US Census. Lyman Van Buren Weber - was recalled for a second term when the first balloons were reported. He helped developed Chemical Warfare for the army during WWI. He served his time for the recall in PUBLIC SERVICE! WHY don't YOU or the FBI request his records? Well! Duane did CWF for the few weeks he was in the Army, but was supposedly in McNeil when the Balloon search started in 1945. So you have just narrowed the window - in the early part of 1945 just like the records show. Perhaps I get some dates messed up. I remember the stories he told me and what I learned from the family. Our government was VERY tight lipped about this, If the date you reported of the mother and children being killed is correct, would that not make the government liable for their deaths by requesting the media NOT report the findings.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33945 August 30, 2012 Robert99 your phased approach with various construction sites and therefore probabilities is the most logical I’ve seen so far. Unfortunately that typically means a very short lifespan around here. There was some Russian or Ukrainian skydiver who took one step beyond in the relatively developed area of Perris, CA (you would have to see this place to appreciate relatively developed) and with choppers and dogs and equipment with little flashing lights they were not able to find the guy (a farm worker noticed some fabric months later). I get the feeling that people have some vision of a person making a massive mess when they smack the ground because they view themselves as the center of the universe. The footprint is extremely small and things which go through ‘rapid deceleration’ don’t resemble themselves. Same with this talk about bodies floating on the Columbia. Big difference between Cletus having too many mimosas while on his Chris-Craft, then tripping over his own feet while trying to undo his fly and landing in the drink, going hypothermic and taking a water nap. Bodies falling from 10,000 feet may (just may) have a different appearance when they hit the water with the intestines getting completely ruptured. Case study of the number of bodies from Flight 007 showed very few end up floating. I’m sure 377 and about a thousand other jumpers could relate just what they were exposed to as they jumped from a DC-9. I’ve been at the aft of a C-130 with the ramp down and can say I have experienced more wind and noise on this thread. But I’m sure someone will feel the need to portray the experience as something so unique, that they are the only ones on Earth to possess such expertise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #33946 August 30, 2012 Blevins! YOU and YOU ALONE are bound and detemined to get the thread shut-down. You know that Grey like yourself is a writer, and he does take liberties. You can judge NO one by what GREY wrote about them. Look at what Grey says about me and about Jerry T. Do you actually believe I ever wore the outfit Grey described? Grey painted me as a BAR PICK-UP in a hideous out-fit with a kerchief. I never wore a kerchief in my life and I was NOT a bar pick-up! Blevins if all you want to do is argue - then stay away from the thread. Like the little BOY you are - you run to Quade to tattle. If you can't play grown-up then don't play with the grown-ups! Geeze you guys still have me pulling my old country ways out of the blue! These damn quips sound like Knoss and I really really hate that comparison, but it is what it it is!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #33947 August 30, 2012 QuoteBut I’m sure someone will feel the need to portray the experience as something so unique, that they are the only ones on Earth to possess such expertise. The only person who would take that position is one of the whuffos. Thousands of jumpers could make the jump...and walk away...with the money.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #33948 August 30, 2012 Quote Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33949 August 30, 2012 QuoteThat’s what I’m not so sure about Mrshutter45. With all those mens and their huge equipments just mauling and clawing at the bed, of the river, would anything have been noticed by the glistening mens? They were likely contracted to strip everything on that island bare (oh my), and had to transport the overburden somehow. From 1970 to 1989 there were four marinas constructed so all the Portland area pirates would have a place, to slip their sloop (I feel faint again). Someone strapped to one of those throbbing beasts for eight hours a day is not looking for any suspicious debris and the view is not like that in one’s car. How many murder victims found their final resting place in a municipal dump? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY I’m not saying it did happen, but ignoring something as vast as that project which is directly below V-23, in favor of something less likely (more complex) violates Occam in ways I’ve only dreamed about. How was that overburden transported? Heaped in a barge and moved by Tena Bar? I don’t have a clue and was soundly told, with amazing authority, that there was no clamshell dredging on the Columbia and the Army Corps of Engineers is the only organization to do that anyway, so there. This was going on while I was gazing at aerials of Tomahawk Island being molested with all those mens and their equipments. But that was over a year ago, so it has been erased from reality again. I don’t put a high probability on such a situation, but I most definitely assign a value greater than zero. But with all the panic and unbridled fear of the subject, it’s best to stay buried, deep in some dark recess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90&feature=related well it's hard to say, every jobsite is different, I have read about Construction workers unearthing bones while they are doing what is called "pushing dirt" a phrase used down here for starting the project, most of the time it turns out to be animal bones but it has happened...who knows? this is one of the reasons I am doing the reconstruction, I can run 99's path and then turn on the lites (daytime)and really see whats around the plane, I'm able to see 360 around the outside of the plane above and below ya never know what might pop up? nothing perhaps but I will have learned a lot while doing this! the question is...why not?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33950 August 30, 2012 QuoteQuote Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight! Jo, You need to do some research of your own. I have never been in contact with Cook. I have never seen a post on this thread from Cook. I suppose that you are accusing me of undermining you in some fashion. Well, Jo, life can be a bitch at times when you are posting nonsense about the balloon bombs, finding non-existent codes in Duane's service number(s), and so forth. Forget about keeping the two 99s straight. But it would be nice if you spent some time trying to keep the two Jo Webers straight. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1353 1354 1355 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 Next Page 1358 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50 Go To Topic Listing
Robert99 50 #33928 August 29, 2012 QuoteIf you will remember I asked you a simple question. One that if you found the answer to would make it obvious when "secret" things started to happen. The question was - Do you know the date the mother and children were killed by the Balloon Bomb? It was right after that the government knew they had to get some people on it and it had to be "SECRET". Jo, You keep getting these things backwards and generally wrong. The balloon bombs started appearing in the western United States in early November 1944 and just two days after the first ones were launched in Japan. Some reports about these balloons did appear in the media in the US and China (yes, China) and the Japanese were aware of these reports. I have seen a report that an article on the balloons appeared in Newsweek magazine about January 1, 1945. On January 4, 1945, the US Government asked the media not to publicize these sightings and reports. This was voluntary but the media cooperated. On May 5, 1945, a woman and five children were killed near Lakeview, Oregon when they found one of these balloons near their picnic site and started moving it or playing with it. These were the only people killed by these balloons. And on May 22, 1945 and after this incident, the US Government started publicizing the balloons and also started an educational program to warn all persons, especially children, about the balloons. I personally remember seeing one of those balloons in flight (being circled by a couple of P-38s) and I also remember that educational program. So to summarize, the Japanese launched the first balloons in the first few days of November 1944 and the first one was found in the US two days later. About two months after the first balloon was found in the US, the government started a voluntary media effort to not publish information about the balloons. That effort was abandoned on May 22, 1945 when the government started an effort to warn people of the balloons. Why do you keep saying that everything about the balloons was SECRET? The firefighters didn't need a security clearance to fight a forest fire. And at that time I wasn't even old enough to know what a security clearance was and didn't have one either. And I don't know of anyone in my fifth grade class who had a security clearance. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33929 August 29, 2012 QuoteHow common sense often triumphs over triviality: Amount of money found at Tena Bar: Approximately $5,800. Were the original bundles of bills packaged in varying amounts, but roughly equaled about $2,000 per bundle. Answer=YES. Were at least some portions of the recovered bills stuck together, and in alignment so much that the ink from the serial numbers bled into each other: Answer=YES. Does this information tell you that these were not simply a bunch of loose bills that washed up and aligned by themselves? Answer=YES. Quote Even you agree $5800 is an estimate. FACT: Originally reported in numerous interviews as being $20,000 estimated FACT: All bundles whatever their size/denomination were rubber banded as bundles. That is the only concrete thing that defined a bundle. No rubber band evidence ever existed to define the find as three bundles FACT: The auction company processing Ingram's portion (only Ingram's portion!) found and added at least 15 new serial numbers missed and not counted in the FBI's original list. FACT: Your borrowed concept from Tom that all bills found were in perfect alignment - is false . Tom's small sample may be statistically isolated, so far as anyone knows. The bleeding of print between bills may have happened at the bank. A temp over 60F is usually required for bleeding to happen, according to the US Treasury Forensic Division agent ___________ and most commonly happens when large piles of money are stacked in bank vaults.... otherwsie some chemical action is required - this issue could be further explored by seeing the original microfilm because every bill was photographed - yes? Tom didnt bother to add that factoid, nor have you because you are a concept- man, not an evidence man!. ! . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33930 August 29, 2012 QuoteYou can believe what you wish regarding those bills. And go ahead and place those results into the same folder where you have Geoff Gray saying THIS: Quote''Geof Gray ID'd you perfectly. "SMALL MAN SYNDROME. Completely untrustworthy ..... " If you are going to spout a bunch of BS like that, and put words into Gray's mouth he didn't say...then why should anyone believe you or any quotes you provide regarding anything else? You lied about this. Apology and retraction is required. Or at least a retraction. Gray talked/commented to lots of people about you at the time. You were a very controversial topic, and Gray had no affection for you, to say the very least! Take it or leave it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #33931 August 29, 2012 Our Production Crew was out there a few times the last couple of years, and we had the luck of meeting the Pawn Stars Crew at a gear house. They do pick the items for the show, there is ususally a long line out the door on filming days and an associate producer screening items. On none filming days it is a busy pawn shop with many customers coming in trying to get on TV. Jo has lost her Objectivity, so I will not waist any more time with her inaccuracies. Bob, well his ship sunk a long time ago. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33932 August 29, 2012 Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33933 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33934 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #33935 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 Yes (laughing) Your last sentence is correct, I think. Galen and I dont discuss suspects much, so Im not sure who Galen supports or is most interested in, at present. Our mutual interest is in 'evidence in the case' and we have worked rather closely together on this several times, and have been able to carryon long discussions about this and that, in the background. I think you and Tosaw would have had some good discussions. Galen believes that Cooper survived. Tosaw did not. I think Tosaw believed that Cooper had dropped to his death further downstream than the area you have identified. Tosaw conducted a number of searches of wingdam areas, some close to Tena Bar and then further downstream. Galen spent time with Tosaw during some of these searches. And some of the debris Tosaw's divers found was turned over to the FBI for analysis - that is the 'parachute materials' reference in the article Blevins just posted. You can just email Galen any questions you have. Im sure he would be very open to talking to you - or maybe use the discussion group over at Sluggo's website ? I will mention this: one of Galen's recent interests has been the decible level Cooper experienced at the stairs. It's my understanding people on the test team used ear protection, sodidnt experience the same decible levels Cooper may have ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33936 August 29, 2012 QuoteI think Tosaw believed that Cooper had dropped to his death further downstream than the area you have identified. Georger, are you sure that you don't mean "upstream", which would be to the south from Tena Bar, instead of "downstream", which would be to the north of Tena Bar and where the money was found? QuoteI will mention this: one of Galen's recent interests has been the decible level Cooper experienced at the stairs. It's my understanding people on the test team used ear protection, so didnt experience the same decible levels Cooper may have ? Georger, Galen Cook may be on to something here. Remember that the 727 had very early model turbine engines and they were noisy. The aircraft was flying on the "backside of the power curve" so the engines would have been at a rather high power level. The power level can probably be determined from the fuel flow to each engine which the FBI notes give as 4000 pounds per engine per hour when the airliner was in the Portland area. If the sound level on the stairs adjacent to the three engines reached a level of 140 to 150 db, then it is possible that Cooper could have lost consciousness if he paused there for several seconds. If that happened, then he may have fallen off the stairs rather than jumped. And he could have been on the ground 40 seconds later. That is not enough time for him to regain his "senses". Perhaps someone on the thread with acoustics training and access to 727 flight manuals for the early production engines could help Cook on this matter. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Afrdohgts 0 #33937 August 29, 2012 Would Cooper's body be found near Ingram picnic site? If Cooper died from the jump what are the dynamics of the situation if he hit the Lewis River? Would it be too much of a struggle to make it out of the cold river with all that stuff on him? He would have to cut the chute loose quickly. His clothing would also suck up the weight of the water making it more difficult to stay afloat. At the same time he has to keep possession of the money bag. And brief case? If he drowned with an open chute his body flows to the Columbia and gets snagged by a commercial boat prop and heads upstream? Is there a commercial boat log for that time period? What happens to a body/remains in that river? Does it eventually float? Would a boat prop scramble the remains eventually? Would fish eat the remains? The money find shows that Cooper lost control of the situation; at least to an extent. I don't think that bodes well for Cooper's survival. Was there even a good place for Cooper to land in that area? The parachuting aspect of his crime seems to contrast the actual hijacking in attention to detail and control over the situation. I haven't jumped even once so I came here to read what actual jumpers have to say; especially about Coopers choice of the round chute over the sport chute. Does it suggest a familiarity with the round chute and perhaps some distance in time from his jumping days? Was the sport chute a newer chute for 1971? thanks in advance Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33938 August 29, 2012 The reason no one agrees with any two things is because they already have their answer and refuse to admit to this simple fact. There’s information which is confidential and for some bizarre reason given greater weight for being accurate. If you already know the answer to who Cooper is, then I don’t understand why you would waste one second on this thread, if not to sell something. I wouldn’t take a history course to learn who fought in the Battle of Big Sandy Creek if I already knew the story. So why are the Kenny and Sheridan torchbearers even on this thread? That makes the LEAST amount of sense. Unless there is some warped view that keeping everything else in chaos makes their candidates more viable. I’m open to any and all subjects that can be supported by fact, science or theorem. As soon as some subject is discussed which does not align with some pre-existing belief system, it then must be killed. Killed. No source attribution or evidence, killed. None asked for either, killed. Could Cooper’s body have pranged into the environs of Tena Bar? That money find supports that line of thought. Could Cooper have been preserved on Tomahawk Island before being dislodged by heavy construction? The fact that Tomahawk is directly below V-23 and the massive construction efforts support this also (also). Could Cooper have jumped and drifted to Guam? There aren’t any case studies or scientific data to support such a theory. Ultimately if I believe that Cooper is some guy named Dave who survived, then I must kill any discussions which involve his death. Kill it. Same for those who ‘know’ he died, any suggestion of surviving must die. This is the dirty tango which has been repeated for years under the self proclaimed banner of searching for the truth. How loud was Flight 305? I’d say the same level as Heady’s, LaPoint’s, McNally’s and McCoy’s aircraft. Were any of them disturbed by the jets? Does anyone ever try to check existing data first? Why can’t anyone get an FBI file on those losers? Too un-sexy, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #33939 August 29, 2012 Quote Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 You pretty much nailed that one....except I think Cook's support is for the letters to be analyzed, but his candidate is Gossett. Unless he's switched sides. ? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sailshaw 0 #33940 August 30, 2012 Robert99 You say "As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw." Yes, Sheridan is alive and well in California and survived the jump. I have been giving some thought (in my sleep and that is dangerous) about why Sheridan titled his book "The Idiot's Frightfull Laughter" My conclusion is that Sheridan even thought of himself as an Idiot for doing the Caper and during the jump he remembers laughing all the way to the ground but it was Frightfull due to the danger of a night jump into bad weather and not too certain about the landing spot. Galen has been talking with the Seattle FBI and he thinks they believe that the four letters to the newspapers were written by DB Cooper due to the clues in decoded letters that no one but BD would have known. If the FBI obtains the DNA from the letters/stamps (especially letter #3) and it matches what they have on file for Sheridan. I believe the case will finally be solved and the FBI will get their man. I believe this is a hot topic within the Seattle FBI and would not be surprised that letter #3 is presently in the Quantico, VA DNA lab. This will blow Farflung's mind as he did not think of it himself. 73's and have another banana OM! Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33941 August 30, 2012 If I had to play the odds game, I would gamble that he hit land, if the flight path from the FBI is correct then he should of hit land vs water. If you look at 99's situation I believe he might be fish food or close to the Columbia (catepiller up past Tena Bar) or possibly landing on Hayden I don't know? Hayden would be a long shot since Farf pointed out lots of "mens" working on that Island and you figure the "mens" would of found something "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33942 August 30, 2012 QuoteThe reason no one agrees with any two things is because they already have their answer and refuse to admit to this simple fact. There’s information which is confidential and for some bizarre reason given greater weight for being accurate. If you already know the answer to who Cooper is, then I don’t understand why you would waste one second on this thread, if not to sell something. I wouldn’t take a history course to learn who fought in the Battle of Big Sandy Creek if I already knew the story. So why are the Kenny and Sheridan torchbearers even on this thread? That makes the LEAST amount of sense. Unless there is some warped view that keeping everything else in chaos makes their candidates more viable. I’m open to any and all subjects that can be supported by fact, science or theorem. As soon as some subject is discussed which does not align with some pre-existing belief system, it then must be killed. Killed. No source attribution or evidence, killed. None asked for either, killed. Could Cooper’s body have pranged into the environs of Tena Bar? That money find supports that line of thought. Could Cooper have been preserved on Tomahawk Island before being dislodged by heavy construction? The fact that Tomahawk is directly below V-23 and the massive construction efforts support this also (also). Could Cooper have jumped and drifted to Guam? There aren’t any case studies or scientific data to support such a theory. Ultimately if I believe that Cooper is some guy named Dave who survived, then I must kill any discussions which involve his death. Kill it. Same for those who ‘know’ he died, any suggestion of surviving must die. This is the dirty tango which has been repeated for years under the self proclaimed banner of searching for the truth. How loud was Flight 305? I’d say the same level as Heady’s, LaPoint’s, McNally’s and McCoy’s aircraft. Were any of them disturbed by the jets? Does anyone ever try to check existing data first? Why can’t anyone get an FBI file on those losers? Too un-sexy, I guess. Would 377 be willing to comment on the noise fields he experienced while jumping from DC-9s? I think they had basically the same engines when introduced as the 727 had when it was introduced about two years earlier. Just free falling through the noise field shouldn't have a major impact on the jumper. But it might have if the jumper was exposed to the noise fields for several seconds if, for instance, he stopped on the stairs. But we need an acoustics expert to explain the possible human factor problems caused by extremely high noise fields. And about 140 to 150 db would sound like the end of the world. The construction of the flushing channel, about 3.5 miles uupstream of Tena Bar, could have dislodged Cooper and the money if he was in that area. The flushing channel was built shortly before the money was found at Tena Bar. Also, early topographic maps indicated that the area between Catepillar Island and the mainland was a mud flat. If Cooper had hit that, he would probably still be sinking. But that mud flat has now been dredged and Kadow's Caterpillar Island Marina has been built there. Some of the boats I saw there appeared to have a draft of several feet. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33943 August 30, 2012 That’s what I’m not so sure about Mrshutter45. With all those mens and their huge equipments just mauling and clawing at the bed, of the river, would anything have been noticed by the glistening mens? They were likely contracted to strip everything on that island bare (oh my), and had to transport the overburden somehow. From 1970 to 1989 there were four marinas constructed so all the Portland area pirates would have a place, to slip their sloop (I feel faint again). Someone strapped to one of those throbbing beasts for eight hours a day is not looking for any suspicious debris and the view is not like that in one’s car. How many murder victims found their final resting place in a municipal dump? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY I’m not saying it did happen, but ignoring something as vast as that project which is directly below V-23, in favor of something less likely (more complex) violates Occam in ways I’ve only dreamed about. How was that overburden transported? Heaped in a barge and moved by Tena Bar? I don’t have a clue and was soundly told, with amazing authority, that there was no clamshell dredging on the Columbia and the Army Corps of Engineers is the only organization to do that anyway, so there. This was going on while I was gazing at aerials of Tomahawk Island being molested with all those mens and their equipments. But that was over a year ago, so it has been erased from reality again. I don’t put a high probability on such a situation, but I most definitely assign a value greater than zero. But with all the panic and unbridled fear of the subject, it’s best to stay buried, deep in some dark recess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90&feature=related Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #33944 August 30, 2012 Quote Why do you keep saying that everything about the balloons was SECRET? The firefighters didn't need a security clearance to fight a forest fire. And at that time I wasn't even old enough to know what a security clearance was and didn't have one either. And I don't know of anyone in my fifth grade class who had a security clearance. Robert99 I did NOT say anything about Security clearance. I said they wanted to keep the balloons SECRET because they did NOT want to alarm the public. They were concerned about Chemical WARFARE. Note the date of Duane's uncle being recalled. It is in the US Census. Lyman Van Buren Weber - was recalled for a second term when the first balloons were reported. He helped developed Chemical Warfare for the army during WWI. He served his time for the recall in PUBLIC SERVICE! WHY don't YOU or the FBI request his records? Well! Duane did CWF for the few weeks he was in the Army, but was supposedly in McNeil when the Balloon search started in 1945. So you have just narrowed the window - in the early part of 1945 just like the records show. Perhaps I get some dates messed up. I remember the stories he told me and what I learned from the family. Our government was VERY tight lipped about this, If the date you reported of the mother and children being killed is correct, would that not make the government liable for their deaths by requesting the media NOT report the findings.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #33945 August 30, 2012 Robert99 your phased approach with various construction sites and therefore probabilities is the most logical I’ve seen so far. Unfortunately that typically means a very short lifespan around here. There was some Russian or Ukrainian skydiver who took one step beyond in the relatively developed area of Perris, CA (you would have to see this place to appreciate relatively developed) and with choppers and dogs and equipment with little flashing lights they were not able to find the guy (a farm worker noticed some fabric months later). I get the feeling that people have some vision of a person making a massive mess when they smack the ground because they view themselves as the center of the universe. The footprint is extremely small and things which go through ‘rapid deceleration’ don’t resemble themselves. Same with this talk about bodies floating on the Columbia. Big difference between Cletus having too many mimosas while on his Chris-Craft, then tripping over his own feet while trying to undo his fly and landing in the drink, going hypothermic and taking a water nap. Bodies falling from 10,000 feet may (just may) have a different appearance when they hit the water with the intestines getting completely ruptured. Case study of the number of bodies from Flight 007 showed very few end up floating. I’m sure 377 and about a thousand other jumpers could relate just what they were exposed to as they jumped from a DC-9. I’ve been at the aft of a C-130 with the ramp down and can say I have experienced more wind and noise on this thread. But I’m sure someone will feel the need to portray the experience as something so unique, that they are the only ones on Earth to possess such expertise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #33946 August 30, 2012 Blevins! YOU and YOU ALONE are bound and detemined to get the thread shut-down. You know that Grey like yourself is a writer, and he does take liberties. You can judge NO one by what GREY wrote about them. Look at what Grey says about me and about Jerry T. Do you actually believe I ever wore the outfit Grey described? Grey painted me as a BAR PICK-UP in a hideous out-fit with a kerchief. I never wore a kerchief in my life and I was NOT a bar pick-up! Blevins if all you want to do is argue - then stay away from the thread. Like the little BOY you are - you run to Quade to tattle. If you can't play grown-up then don't play with the grown-ups! Geeze you guys still have me pulling my old country ways out of the blue! These damn quips sound like Knoss and I really really hate that comparison, but it is what it it is!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #33947 August 30, 2012 QuoteBut I’m sure someone will feel the need to portray the experience as something so unique, that they are the only ones on Earth to possess such expertise. The only person who would take that position is one of the whuffos. Thousands of jumpers could make the jump...and walk away...with the money.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #33948 August 30, 2012 Quote Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #33949 August 30, 2012 QuoteThat’s what I’m not so sure about Mrshutter45. With all those mens and their huge equipments just mauling and clawing at the bed, of the river, would anything have been noticed by the glistening mens? They were likely contracted to strip everything on that island bare (oh my), and had to transport the overburden somehow. From 1970 to 1989 there were four marinas constructed so all the Portland area pirates would have a place, to slip their sloop (I feel faint again). Someone strapped to one of those throbbing beasts for eight hours a day is not looking for any suspicious debris and the view is not like that in one’s car. How many murder victims found their final resting place in a municipal dump? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY I’m not saying it did happen, but ignoring something as vast as that project which is directly below V-23, in favor of something less likely (more complex) violates Occam in ways I’ve only dreamed about. How was that overburden transported? Heaped in a barge and moved by Tena Bar? I don’t have a clue and was soundly told, with amazing authority, that there was no clamshell dredging on the Columbia and the Army Corps of Engineers is the only organization to do that anyway, so there. This was going on while I was gazing at aerials of Tomahawk Island being molested with all those mens and their equipments. But that was over a year ago, so it has been erased from reality again. I don’t put a high probability on such a situation, but I most definitely assign a value greater than zero. But with all the panic and unbridled fear of the subject, it’s best to stay buried, deep in some dark recess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90&feature=related well it's hard to say, every jobsite is different, I have read about Construction workers unearthing bones while they are doing what is called "pushing dirt" a phrase used down here for starting the project, most of the time it turns out to be animal bones but it has happened...who knows? this is one of the reasons I am doing the reconstruction, I can run 99's path and then turn on the lites (daytime)and really see whats around the plane, I'm able to see 360 around the outside of the plane above and below ya never know what might pop up? nothing perhaps but I will have learned a lot while doing this! the question is...why not?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #33950 August 30, 2012 QuoteQuote Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight! Jo, You need to do some research of your own. I have never been in contact with Cook. I have never seen a post on this thread from Cook. I suppose that you are accusing me of undermining you in some fashion. Well, Jo, life can be a bitch at times when you are posting nonsense about the balloon bombs, finding non-existent codes in Duane's service number(s), and so forth. Forget about keeping the two 99s straight. But it would be nice if you spent some time trying to keep the two Jo Webers straight. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1353 1354 1355 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 Next Page 1358 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50 Go To Topic Listing
georger 244 #33930 August 29, 2012 QuoteYou can believe what you wish regarding those bills. And go ahead and place those results into the same folder where you have Geoff Gray saying THIS: Quote''Geof Gray ID'd you perfectly. "SMALL MAN SYNDROME. Completely untrustworthy ..... " If you are going to spout a bunch of BS like that, and put words into Gray's mouth he didn't say...then why should anyone believe you or any quotes you provide regarding anything else? You lied about this. Apology and retraction is required. Or at least a retraction. Gray talked/commented to lots of people about you at the time. You were a very controversial topic, and Gray had no affection for you, to say the very least! Take it or leave it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #33931 August 29, 2012 Our Production Crew was out there a few times the last couple of years, and we had the luck of meeting the Pawn Stars Crew at a gear house. They do pick the items for the show, there is ususally a long line out the door on filming days and an associate producer screening items. On none filming days it is a busy pawn shop with many customers coming in trying to get on TV. Jo has lost her Objectivity, so I will not waist any more time with her inaccuracies. Bob, well his ship sunk a long time ago. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33932 August 29, 2012 Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33933 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33934 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #33935 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Farflung: No big deal. Instead of discussing the Tena Bar money with Bob Fuhrman, I should have been asking about what the frickin' witnesses on the frickin' plane said...that would have been smarter by far. It also proves I had my head up my behind that day for not taking the opportunity to do that. I know you were gone from the thread for a while. FYI: I found this article from the 1996 San Francisco Chronicle fascinating, because it quotes from the principals things they never really said to others publicly anywhere I can locate. (Rataczak was still flying) The article is pretty standard stuff at first, but gets better as it goes along. The only real error I could find in this article was the mention of Cooper 'scooping up the cigarette butts and notes.' We know he left the butts. However, here's an interesting quote from Rataczak: Quote `I wanted to get him out over the ocean, so if he jumped, he would drown,'' Rataczak said. ``He was threatening our lives and my objective was to kill him, pure and simple.'' But Cooper, smelling something wrong, told the co-pilot to file a new flight plan - down Victor-23, an inland airway that goes south along Interstate 5 toward Portland, then on to Reno...' The embedded link in the above post leads to an article by Michael Taylor in the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael Taylor quotes Richard Tosaw as stating that he believes Cooper's body will be found "somewhere near the Ingram family's picnic site". Presumably, he means near where the money was found. This is the first time that I have heard anything about Tosaw having arrived at that same conclusion. Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 Yes. They went to Galen Cook. They were close friends. That is how Galen learned of the Janet story. Oh! And I'm not lying. [one of my 1st cousins and Tosaw's brother Mike attended the same college and played football together during WWII] Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 Yes (laughing) Your last sentence is correct, I think. Galen and I dont discuss suspects much, so Im not sure who Galen supports or is most interested in, at present. Our mutual interest is in 'evidence in the case' and we have worked rather closely together on this several times, and have been able to carryon long discussions about this and that, in the background. I think you and Tosaw would have had some good discussions. Galen believes that Cooper survived. Tosaw did not. I think Tosaw believed that Cooper had dropped to his death further downstream than the area you have identified. Tosaw conducted a number of searches of wingdam areas, some close to Tena Bar and then further downstream. Galen spent time with Tosaw during some of these searches. And some of the debris Tosaw's divers found was turned over to the FBI for analysis - that is the 'parachute materials' reference in the article Blevins just posted. You can just email Galen any questions you have. Im sure he would be very open to talking to you - or maybe use the discussion group over at Sluggo's website ? I will mention this: one of Galen's recent interests has been the decible level Cooper experienced at the stairs. It's my understanding people on the test team used ear protection, sodidnt experience the same decible levels Cooper may have ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33936 August 29, 2012 QuoteI think Tosaw believed that Cooper had dropped to his death further downstream than the area you have identified. Georger, are you sure that you don't mean "upstream", which would be to the south from Tena Bar, instead of "downstream", which would be to the north of Tena Bar and where the money was found? QuoteI will mention this: one of Galen's recent interests has been the decible level Cooper experienced at the stairs. It's my understanding people on the test team used ear protection, so didnt experience the same decible levels Cooper may have ? Georger, Galen Cook may be on to something here. Remember that the 727 had very early model turbine engines and they were noisy. The aircraft was flying on the "backside of the power curve" so the engines would have been at a rather high power level. The power level can probably be determined from the fuel flow to each engine which the FBI notes give as 4000 pounds per engine per hour when the airliner was in the Portland area. If the sound level on the stairs adjacent to the three engines reached a level of 140 to 150 db, then it is possible that Cooper could have lost consciousness if he paused there for several seconds. If that happened, then he may have fallen off the stairs rather than jumped. And he could have been on the ground 40 seconds later. That is not enough time for him to regain his "senses". Perhaps someone on the thread with acoustics training and access to 727 flight manuals for the early production engines could help Cook on this matter. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Afrdohgts 0 #33937 August 29, 2012 Would Cooper's body be found near Ingram picnic site? If Cooper died from the jump what are the dynamics of the situation if he hit the Lewis River? Would it be too much of a struggle to make it out of the cold river with all that stuff on him? He would have to cut the chute loose quickly. His clothing would also suck up the weight of the water making it more difficult to stay afloat. At the same time he has to keep possession of the money bag. And brief case? If he drowned with an open chute his body flows to the Columbia and gets snagged by a commercial boat prop and heads upstream? Is there a commercial boat log for that time period? What happens to a body/remains in that river? Does it eventually float? Would a boat prop scramble the remains eventually? Would fish eat the remains? The money find shows that Cooper lost control of the situation; at least to an extent. I don't think that bodes well for Cooper's survival. Was there even a good place for Cooper to land in that area? The parachuting aspect of his crime seems to contrast the actual hijacking in attention to detail and control over the situation. I haven't jumped even once so I came here to read what actual jumpers have to say; especially about Coopers choice of the round chute over the sport chute. Does it suggest a familiarity with the round chute and perhaps some distance in time from his jumping days? Was the sport chute a newer chute for 1971? thanks in advance Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #33938 August 29, 2012 The reason no one agrees with any two things is because they already have their answer and refuse to admit to this simple fact. There’s information which is confidential and for some bizarre reason given greater weight for being accurate. If you already know the answer to who Cooper is, then I don’t understand why you would waste one second on this thread, if not to sell something. I wouldn’t take a history course to learn who fought in the Battle of Big Sandy Creek if I already knew the story. So why are the Kenny and Sheridan torchbearers even on this thread? That makes the LEAST amount of sense. Unless there is some warped view that keeping everything else in chaos makes their candidates more viable. I’m open to any and all subjects that can be supported by fact, science or theorem. As soon as some subject is discussed which does not align with some pre-existing belief system, it then must be killed. Killed. No source attribution or evidence, killed. None asked for either, killed. Could Cooper’s body have pranged into the environs of Tena Bar? That money find supports that line of thought. Could Cooper have been preserved on Tomahawk Island before being dislodged by heavy construction? The fact that Tomahawk is directly below V-23 and the massive construction efforts support this also (also). Could Cooper have jumped and drifted to Guam? There aren’t any case studies or scientific data to support such a theory. Ultimately if I believe that Cooper is some guy named Dave who survived, then I must kill any discussions which involve his death. Kill it. Same for those who ‘know’ he died, any suggestion of surviving must die. This is the dirty tango which has been repeated for years under the self proclaimed banner of searching for the truth. How loud was Flight 305? I’d say the same level as Heady’s, LaPoint’s, McNally’s and McCoy’s aircraft. Were any of them disturbed by the jets? Does anyone ever try to check existing data first? Why can’t anyone get an FBI file on those losers? Too un-sexy, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #33939 August 29, 2012 Quote Okay, thanks. As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw. Or to put it another way, no three people on this thread agree on anything with one single exception. The exception is that most posters here think Bob Knoss is nuts, and even he may agree with that. Robert99 You pretty much nailed that one....except I think Cook's support is for the letters to be analyzed, but his candidate is Gossett. Unless he's switched sides. ? but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #33940 August 30, 2012 Robert99 You say "As I understand it, Galen Cook supports Sailshaw's renter (Peterson?) as being the hijacker. If I have translated correctly, this means that Cook believes the hijacker survived the jump and disagrees with Tosaw." Yes, Sheridan is alive and well in California and survived the jump. I have been giving some thought (in my sleep and that is dangerous) about why Sheridan titled his book "The Idiot's Frightfull Laughter" My conclusion is that Sheridan even thought of himself as an Idiot for doing the Caper and during the jump he remembers laughing all the way to the ground but it was Frightfull due to the danger of a night jump into bad weather and not too certain about the landing spot. Galen has been talking with the Seattle FBI and he thinks they believe that the four letters to the newspapers were written by DB Cooper due to the clues in decoded letters that no one but BD would have known. If the FBI obtains the DNA from the letters/stamps (especially letter #3) and it matches what they have on file for Sheridan. I believe the case will finally be solved and the FBI will get their man. I believe this is a hot topic within the Seattle FBI and would not be surprised that letter #3 is presently in the Quantico, VA DNA lab. This will blow Farflung's mind as he did not think of it himself. 73's and have another banana OM! Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33941 August 30, 2012 If I had to play the odds game, I would gamble that he hit land, if the flight path from the FBI is correct then he should of hit land vs water. If you look at 99's situation I believe he might be fish food or close to the Columbia (catepiller up past Tena Bar) or possibly landing on Hayden I don't know? Hayden would be a long shot since Farf pointed out lots of "mens" working on that Island and you figure the "mens" would of found something "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33942 August 30, 2012 QuoteThe reason no one agrees with any two things is because they already have their answer and refuse to admit to this simple fact. There’s information which is confidential and for some bizarre reason given greater weight for being accurate. If you already know the answer to who Cooper is, then I don’t understand why you would waste one second on this thread, if not to sell something. I wouldn’t take a history course to learn who fought in the Battle of Big Sandy Creek if I already knew the story. So why are the Kenny and Sheridan torchbearers even on this thread? That makes the LEAST amount of sense. Unless there is some warped view that keeping everything else in chaos makes their candidates more viable. I’m open to any and all subjects that can be supported by fact, science or theorem. As soon as some subject is discussed which does not align with some pre-existing belief system, it then must be killed. Killed. No source attribution or evidence, killed. None asked for either, killed. Could Cooper’s body have pranged into the environs of Tena Bar? That money find supports that line of thought. Could Cooper have been preserved on Tomahawk Island before being dislodged by heavy construction? The fact that Tomahawk is directly below V-23 and the massive construction efforts support this also (also). Could Cooper have jumped and drifted to Guam? There aren’t any case studies or scientific data to support such a theory. Ultimately if I believe that Cooper is some guy named Dave who survived, then I must kill any discussions which involve his death. Kill it. Same for those who ‘know’ he died, any suggestion of surviving must die. This is the dirty tango which has been repeated for years under the self proclaimed banner of searching for the truth. How loud was Flight 305? I’d say the same level as Heady’s, LaPoint’s, McNally’s and McCoy’s aircraft. Were any of them disturbed by the jets? Does anyone ever try to check existing data first? Why can’t anyone get an FBI file on those losers? Too un-sexy, I guess. Would 377 be willing to comment on the noise fields he experienced while jumping from DC-9s? I think they had basically the same engines when introduced as the 727 had when it was introduced about two years earlier. Just free falling through the noise field shouldn't have a major impact on the jumper. But it might have if the jumper was exposed to the noise fields for several seconds if, for instance, he stopped on the stairs. But we need an acoustics expert to explain the possible human factor problems caused by extremely high noise fields. And about 140 to 150 db would sound like the end of the world. The construction of the flushing channel, about 3.5 miles uupstream of Tena Bar, could have dislodged Cooper and the money if he was in that area. The flushing channel was built shortly before the money was found at Tena Bar. Also, early topographic maps indicated that the area between Catepillar Island and the mainland was a mud flat. If Cooper had hit that, he would probably still be sinking. But that mud flat has now been dredged and Kadow's Caterpillar Island Marina has been built there. Some of the boats I saw there appeared to have a draft of several feet. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #33943 August 30, 2012 That’s what I’m not so sure about Mrshutter45. With all those mens and their huge equipments just mauling and clawing at the bed, of the river, would anything have been noticed by the glistening mens? They were likely contracted to strip everything on that island bare (oh my), and had to transport the overburden somehow. From 1970 to 1989 there were four marinas constructed so all the Portland area pirates would have a place, to slip their sloop (I feel faint again). Someone strapped to one of those throbbing beasts for eight hours a day is not looking for any suspicious debris and the view is not like that in one’s car. How many murder victims found their final resting place in a municipal dump? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY I’m not saying it did happen, but ignoring something as vast as that project which is directly below V-23, in favor of something less likely (more complex) violates Occam in ways I’ve only dreamed about. How was that overburden transported? Heaped in a barge and moved by Tena Bar? I don’t have a clue and was soundly told, with amazing authority, that there was no clamshell dredging on the Columbia and the Army Corps of Engineers is the only organization to do that anyway, so there. This was going on while I was gazing at aerials of Tomahawk Island being molested with all those mens and their equipments. But that was over a year ago, so it has been erased from reality again. I don’t put a high probability on such a situation, but I most definitely assign a value greater than zero. But with all the panic and unbridled fear of the subject, it’s best to stay buried, deep in some dark recess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90&feature=related Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #33944 August 30, 2012 Quote Why do you keep saying that everything about the balloons was SECRET? The firefighters didn't need a security clearance to fight a forest fire. And at that time I wasn't even old enough to know what a security clearance was and didn't have one either. And I don't know of anyone in my fifth grade class who had a security clearance. Robert99 I did NOT say anything about Security clearance. I said they wanted to keep the balloons SECRET because they did NOT want to alarm the public. They were concerned about Chemical WARFARE. Note the date of Duane's uncle being recalled. It is in the US Census. Lyman Van Buren Weber - was recalled for a second term when the first balloons were reported. He helped developed Chemical Warfare for the army during WWI. He served his time for the recall in PUBLIC SERVICE! WHY don't YOU or the FBI request his records? Well! Duane did CWF for the few weeks he was in the Army, but was supposedly in McNeil when the Balloon search started in 1945. So you have just narrowed the window - in the early part of 1945 just like the records show. Perhaps I get some dates messed up. I remember the stories he told me and what I learned from the family. Our government was VERY tight lipped about this, If the date you reported of the mother and children being killed is correct, would that not make the government liable for their deaths by requesting the media NOT report the findings.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #33945 August 30, 2012 Robert99 your phased approach with various construction sites and therefore probabilities is the most logical I’ve seen so far. Unfortunately that typically means a very short lifespan around here. There was some Russian or Ukrainian skydiver who took one step beyond in the relatively developed area of Perris, CA (you would have to see this place to appreciate relatively developed) and with choppers and dogs and equipment with little flashing lights they were not able to find the guy (a farm worker noticed some fabric months later). I get the feeling that people have some vision of a person making a massive mess when they smack the ground because they view themselves as the center of the universe. The footprint is extremely small and things which go through ‘rapid deceleration’ don’t resemble themselves. Same with this talk about bodies floating on the Columbia. Big difference between Cletus having too many mimosas while on his Chris-Craft, then tripping over his own feet while trying to undo his fly and landing in the drink, going hypothermic and taking a water nap. Bodies falling from 10,000 feet may (just may) have a different appearance when they hit the water with the intestines getting completely ruptured. Case study of the number of bodies from Flight 007 showed very few end up floating. I’m sure 377 and about a thousand other jumpers could relate just what they were exposed to as they jumped from a DC-9. I’ve been at the aft of a C-130 with the ramp down and can say I have experienced more wind and noise on this thread. But I’m sure someone will feel the need to portray the experience as something so unique, that they are the only ones on Earth to possess such expertise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #33946 August 30, 2012 Blevins! YOU and YOU ALONE are bound and detemined to get the thread shut-down. You know that Grey like yourself is a writer, and he does take liberties. You can judge NO one by what GREY wrote about them. Look at what Grey says about me and about Jerry T. Do you actually believe I ever wore the outfit Grey described? Grey painted me as a BAR PICK-UP in a hideous out-fit with a kerchief. I never wore a kerchief in my life and I was NOT a bar pick-up! Blevins if all you want to do is argue - then stay away from the thread. Like the little BOY you are - you run to Quade to tattle. If you can't play grown-up then don't play with the grown-ups! Geeze you guys still have me pulling my old country ways out of the blue! These damn quips sound like Knoss and I really really hate that comparison, but it is what it it is!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #33947 August 30, 2012 QuoteBut I’m sure someone will feel the need to portray the experience as something so unique, that they are the only ones on Earth to possess such expertise. The only person who would take that position is one of the whuffos. Thousands of jumpers could make the jump...and walk away...with the money.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #33948 August 30, 2012 Quote Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #33949 August 30, 2012 QuoteThat’s what I’m not so sure about Mrshutter45. With all those mens and their huge equipments just mauling and clawing at the bed, of the river, would anything have been noticed by the glistening mens? They were likely contracted to strip everything on that island bare (oh my), and had to transport the overburden somehow. From 1970 to 1989 there were four marinas constructed so all the Portland area pirates would have a place, to slip their sloop (I feel faint again). Someone strapped to one of those throbbing beasts for eight hours a day is not looking for any suspicious debris and the view is not like that in one’s car. How many murder victims found their final resting place in a municipal dump? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdov2UIjUpY I’m not saying it did happen, but ignoring something as vast as that project which is directly below V-23, in favor of something less likely (more complex) violates Occam in ways I’ve only dreamed about. How was that overburden transported? Heaped in a barge and moved by Tena Bar? I don’t have a clue and was soundly told, with amazing authority, that there was no clamshell dredging on the Columbia and the Army Corps of Engineers is the only organization to do that anyway, so there. This was going on while I was gazing at aerials of Tomahawk Island being molested with all those mens and their equipments. But that was over a year ago, so it has been erased from reality again. I don’t put a high probability on such a situation, but I most definitely assign a value greater than zero. But with all the panic and unbridled fear of the subject, it’s best to stay buried, deep in some dark recess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90&feature=related well it's hard to say, every jobsite is different, I have read about Construction workers unearthing bones while they are doing what is called "pushing dirt" a phrase used down here for starting the project, most of the time it turns out to be animal bones but it has happened...who knows? this is one of the reasons I am doing the reconstruction, I can run 99's path and then turn on the lites (daytime)and really see whats around the plane, I'm able to see 360 around the outside of the plane above and below ya never know what might pop up? nothing perhaps but I will have learned a lot while doing this! the question is...why not?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #33950 August 30, 2012 QuoteQuote Does anyone know what happened to Tosaw's papers after his death? Robert99 For someone who does NOT mind undermining otherd. you do not do your own research. Galen Cook reportedly by his own admission was given most of Tosaw's research. True or False? Only Cook and Tosaw's sister know the truth about that one. Aren't you the one in the thread who CLAIMS to communicate with Cook? I can't keep the two 99's straight! Jo, You need to do some research of your own. I have never been in contact with Cook. I have never seen a post on this thread from Cook. I suppose that you are accusing me of undermining you in some fashion. Well, Jo, life can be a bitch at times when you are posting nonsense about the balloon bombs, finding non-existent codes in Duane's service number(s), and so forth. Forget about keeping the two 99s straight. But it would be nice if you spent some time trying to keep the two Jo Webers straight. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
