DB Cooper

[Robert99 50]

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Robert99 disagrees with himself:

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'Basically put, there are too many causes of the accident to list here. But I don't think you can blame the Sperry artifical horizon simply because the pilot didn't have any experience with it...'

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'The pilot simply lost "spatial orientation" [a term Farflung mentions in an earlier post]. He apparently fixated on the artifical horizon and neglected to cross-check his other instruments. The end result was that he didn't know what the airplane was doing...'

If he was fixated on the Sperry and not watching the other instruments...and he was unfamiliar with it...then how can you NOT blame that as a major cause?

See 'Cab4' attachment below. The CAB thought it was a major cause, since the other instruments would be fluctuating.

My point is that the Sperry instrument was apparently functioning normally but that the pilot didn't know how to use it.

The fact that the pilot didn't know how to use the instrument was his own fault and not the instruments.

Is lack of appropriate training the instruments fault? When you burn the toast, do you blame the toaster or the one doing the toasting?

Actually, I wouldn't call this a "human factors" problem either, but a case could be made for that since the Sperry reportedly displayed information in a manner that was directly opposite of that used by previous artifical horizons.

Robert99

[Amazon 7]

Many Many years ago I was doing a demo, with an airplane driver ( I hesitate to call numbnutz a pilot) who was not used to flying jumpers. We had removed the door of the old C-180 for the demo and proceeded to the river we were going to make the water jump into. The weather was just not being all that cooperative that day with way too many clouds. Numbnutz the airplane driver managed to get himself turned around in the clouds while I was trying to spot this thing so that my round parachute would land in the river and not in the town. Here I am looking down along the bottom of the airplane past the landing gear when I looked up for a second to tell numbnutz that I couldn’t see squat and instantly I noticed the ground as I was looking out of the windscreen right in front of us. Numbnutz was looking out his side window. At that moment I knew it was time to leave the airplane posthaste and punched numbnutz as I left said airplane. I opened upwith a good canopy several hundred feet over a church steeple on the bluff overlooking the river and had just enough wind and altitude to make it to the river .

Nothing felt all that "off"... as far as any kind of shift in weight to indicate our attitude but looking straight at the ground thru the windscreen.. skeeeeered me mightily.

[Farflung 0]

AHHHHHHH Hem!! (cough, like I don’t know what’s going on, cough, cough)

[Farflung 0]

Just in case you forgot about denying that you mentioned the “coin toss” at all and failed to apologize… again. (cough, bullshit, cough, cough, panty sniffer). It’s not like junk journalism after like 9,000 billion people read a bunch of shit that is not true because it is lies told by someone who denies, then lies then…. bakes pies.

Is the Buddy Holly crash as fluid as the Cooper case? Did Skipp confuse you with the internet this time? Did the Big Bopper talk to Cooper? Hellllloooooo Deee Beee. Yeah this is your Captain speaking, ahhhh, ahhhh, ahhhh, you sweet thing, Do I what? Will I what? Oh Tina, you know what I like!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtlNlTHe-_0

[georger 244]

Some of the best times in my life have come while playing Cochran songs with the amp volume set at '5' or higher. My favorite is Something Else.

A close second is Summertime Blues.
----------------------
"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

How very unfortunate! Now we understand - thanks
for sharing that with the Group.

Did you work on any of the things we talked about
in Group last week?

? ? ?

[mrshutter45 21]

" Pilot Peterson had passed his written exam for instruments, but had not been certified, although he did have some time on instruments. Attached is a portion of the CAB report, done as a GIF image."

passing "instrumentation" does not mean he can fly by instruments alone, Peterson had 250 hours on that plane, how many were at night and instruments only? I also found that he had a hearing problem and did not like flying at night (known to panic) let alone by instruments only...now combine all of that with bad weather and your odds of a crash are pretty high IMHO.

Jerry Dwyer was the owner of the plane and was the one who found the wreckage, he saw the plane going down from the tower but nobody believed him, the next day he tried re-creating the flight path and sure enough found the wreckage,

If the plane could be seen 4 miles away (tail lights) I'm pretty sure Peterson could also see around the plane, this leaves pilot error or something going wrong with the plane in which they concluded that nothing was wrong with the plane and this again brings Peterson under fire.

If turbulence did come into play the fact of Peterson being known to panic at night would of lost control of the plane and crashed IMO....if that happened.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

I will be happy to speak with a law enforcement officer or a State Attorney General's office. No 'for profit' buddies of yours. My wife was not told anything of the Project by anyone at anytime until recently. She knows nothing, except where we were, when. She met a few people, but does not know their involvement. Moreover, she has a rotten memory. I, on the other hand have a perfect memory, tons of notes, and friends in hidden places.

I am not here to prove a case, accuse anyone of a crime, or libel anyone. There was no crime. It was a Government authorized pilot demonstration of a lack of safety that was changed into a political football for President Nixon and his new FAA chief, who was the first pilot in that position.

Now, you can poo-poo what I say, but it is what happened and some brave civil heroes stepped up to the plate when asked to do a service, like TOG, McCoy, O'Hara, Haapala, Hemmelsbach, and Duane Weber. Now they just smile, or chuckle at the buffalo that few over the chicken coop and you "foxes" act like stupid idiots trying to pretend to be super sleuths coming up with all this phony baloney crap you call evidence.

The facts are all right in front of your face, just read it off the FAA History page. Step by step, it's all there from the Air Piracy Conventions in the Hauge to Japan to Montreal and the Congresses reaction, and Nixon's solution, based on Project Norjak. Weber's hijacking and McCoy's hijacking all under the direction of our Heroes. Bashful, blushing, heroes, and one rat fink. Bite me. Mac said to talk.

[matthewcline 0]

Did Mac use a medium?
Or is this a new "Mac"?

A member of Nixon's staff, who is still alive, says you're full of BS.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

you are funny Mr Fife, your wife knows nothing, the world knows nothing, just you and a dead guy! now thats funny.

why would you wait to speak with Law Enforcement or a States Attorney's office? you tried to tell the FBI but this was way before you had the entire United States involved?

you need to get the story out Bobby in order to be heard! you are back tracking just like your wife told me on the phone over a year ago.

this means you have to go out to your 42 ' trailer and get your "papers" that mice might have gotten but most should still be ok

you constantly correct everyone's post on here but struggle when it comes to your own?

now, if you are truthful once again about talking to a State Attorney I can make that happen I know many people in high places and can get to the Minnesota Judicial departments needed, I need 100% from you Bob! are you ready?

you constantly speak of truth till you can't type anymore so let's move forward with this!

"I am not here to prove a case, accuse anyone of a crime, or libel anyone."

Bob, without there knowledge of what you are stating about them is "Liable" if they were here it would be a different story. "Mac said to talk" so start talking on a real Public form Bob...not here on a parachute thread!

Bob says: phony baloney crap you call evidence.
Well Bob, when is it exactly that you will show your "evidence" you can't even get your own draft period straight!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

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Did Mac use a medium?
Or is this a new "Mac"?

A member of Nixon's staff, who is still alive, says you're full of BS.

Matt

I think Bob is using a I-Mac
a year ago is was to get Nixon to consider these problems, now it came down from him to the Pentagon to the CIA to the FBI to the Pilots Union down to a guy with the same name as a hamburger?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

holy crap I got my first stone last nite!!! the pain was hard to describe but feeling ok today so far

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

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holy crap I got my first stone last nite!!! the pain was hard to describe but feeling ok today so far

My sympathy goes out to you. Never had them, but I have known a few who have. Time for the Dilaudid prescription...don't let them pawn off that codeine-based junk on you.

thanks, but the pain is gone so I don't think I am going to pursue this unless it comes back, I'm the type that will weather it out before taking any action, this is where Knoss is right about me being a Southern hick, call it what ya want but I'm tough as nails and don't let much get in my way when sometimes I should but that's who I am!

on a side note, I flew 15 tons of steel up on a roof last week for mechanical screens, Obama can kiss my ass because I did build it! and I made it.....and made it happen, not him not you but me!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

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holy crap I got my first stone last nite!!! the pain was hard to describe but feeling ok today so far

Been there. Dropped me right to my knees in screaming pain. Felt like a drop kick from an AFL star. When I arrived at the hospital in a fetal position the Doctor refused to give me anything, saying I was just after drugs. Was that you?

I spent a week in a different hospital 50 miles away drinking a quart of water an hour until I flushed out this tiny little pit the size of a ball point pen tip. It took 30 years for the pain to go away every time I urinated. It haunted me just like the Cooper case. Difference is, Cooper is a pain in the ass. THAT was a kick in the nuts!

McShudder, you're just a kick! Drink more cranberry juice. Cut down on the milk. Don't assume to know what you think is obvious. Mac is a Hell of a drop kicker. Combat boots, you know. Invisible, too.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Did Mac use a medium?
Or is this a new "Mac"?

A member of Nixon's staff, who is still alive, says you're full of BS.

Matt

An old hooker in Vegas says she is NOT your mother, no way in Hell! But, she claims she gave Duane her pearl bellybutton ring on a tie clasp when you were born.

[mrshutter45 21]

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holy crap I got my first stone last nite!!! the pain was hard to describe but feeling ok today so far

Been there. Dropped me right to my knees in screaming pain. Felt like a drop kick from an AFL star. When I arrived at the hospital in a fetal position the Doctor refused to give me anything, saying I was just after drugs. Was that you?

I spent a week in a different hospital 50 miles away drinking a quart of water an hour until I flushed out this tiny little pit the size of a ball point pen tip. It took 30 years for the pain to go away every time I urinated. It haunted me just like the Cooper case. Difference is, Cooper is a pain in the ass. THAT was a kick in the nuts!

McShudder, you're just a kick! Drink more cranberry juice. Cut down on the milk. Don't assume to know what you think is obvious. Mac is a Hell of a drop kicker. Combat boots, you know. Invisible, too.

don't drink much milk but eat a lot of pizza and way to much soda, so it could be the soda and dehydration as well, shit hurts no matter how big you are your going down

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"Mac is a Hell of a drop kicker. Combat boots, you know. Invisible, too."

Bob, many would like to believe you but I have checked your facts on many things and they don't add up, you can't even give a straight answer about your own past.

you claim you have "perfect memory" but if you look back on the pages you have made many mistakes and even say so yourself.

a person with this kind of information would go public, if in fact it was true then since the Government is involved nothing would happen to anyone, just the way you tell the story does not fit a Government operation in any way shape or form, other words it doesn't add up.

Just like the reporter who wants to talk to you, he is not my friend, or Bernie Haapala Davids Father, he was not with the FAA, why did you even bring Bernie's name up?

if you look at the map you made you have Cooper on the other side of the Columbia river several miles from where Janet says she seen him? it goes on and on the problems with your story, there was never a pipeline running along the river, your Induction/Exam makes no sense and this does have a lot to do with backing your statement!

I know a friend who is real good friends with the states attorney's office here and can make the contacts needed.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

Did Mac use a medium?
Or is this a new "Mac"?

A member of Nixon's staff, who is still alive, says you're full of BS.

Matt

An old hooker in Vegas says she is NOT your mother, no way in Hell! But, she claims she gave Duane her pearl bellybutton ring on a tie clasp when you were born.

So instead of responding to the comment by a LIVING member if Nixon's staff, that your whole story if BS, you continue to make shit up?

One thing Bob Knoss, my Mom is not some one you're permitted to attack. Understand, sir?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

seems when you hit a nerve he lashes out!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[quade 4]

Kids,

I don't have time for this bullshit tonight, but my spies tell me some of you aren't playing nice. In particular, somebody is out political attacks such as "well, that's because you're a (insert political party affiliation here).

If I see that sort of non-sense going on, the guilty party will be permanently banned from this forum. No further warning is required. Just stop it and stop it now.

Once I've looked into this tomorrow in my "spare time" I may just decide to ban the parties involved anyway.

For now...play nice and quit attacking each other.

Discuss the FACTS of the case all you want. Post all the wild theories you want. But when it comes to calling each other names...stop it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Its old news but I carried a small walkie talkie today and opened high. No problem talking to other hams with walkie talkies 38 miles away. Altitude really helps.

No proof that Cooper was ex Nam SOG, but those guys did manage to rendezvous at night in the jungle after landing using radios. Just a thought.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Krip 2]

The only reason I stop by the DB thread once in a while is to watch the grown up kids insult ea other. Makes a person wonder about what people are really like

I agree with Matt insulting someones mom is way over the top But thats just me.

R

[skyjack71 0]

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Its old news but I carried a small walkie talkie today and opened high. No problem talking to other hams with walkie talkies 38 miles away. Altitude really helps.

No proof that Cooper was ex Nam SOG, but those guys did manage to rendezvous at night in the jungle after landing using radios. Just a thought.

377

Didn't have to be an ex-Nam SOG, could have been a loader or smokejumper or helper who worked with the Walkie Talkies and the CB's and flight communications. JUST SAYING!

Of course the walkie talkie you used was probably not from the 70's, but at least it is a direction needs to be pursued.

Duane and his wife used Walkie Talkies & CB's to communicate while on some of their trips along the FL coast line.

Between 1962 and 1971 along the Florida coast line on the beaches she would be at a designated place in the car waiting for him....we discussed this earlier. She made several statements to me over the yrs about how JOHNNIE loved his CB's.

Good question! Can you use a walkie talkie to communicate with a CB? She used the two terms interchangeable and I just remembered this. I didn't catch it before....but, now I am asking the question.

Remember I sold insurance before Duane died and I was contacting a lead the company provided me. It was the shop that installed the last CB for Duane....and the man remembered him because of the high end product he brought in and was specific regarding its installation. Weird thing to remember - this was during our first yr in FL -1988.

Yrs after Duane died and I learned about Cooper, I went back to this shop, but it was closed. Most of his installations were for Truck drivers and he was near a Truck Stop off of I-10.

I do remember mentioning to him that the CB Duane had before - actually received communications from a plane and the range on them was super and it probably saved our lives during a white-out in CO.

So what was Duane's compulsive reason to have a strong CB? We did NOT have a cell phone - when did cell phones over take the CB's? Do they even make CB's anymore?

I think about my life and wonder why. When I turn around at the Georgia line, my whole world begins and ends with that Hwy 20 ride. Damn I can't remember the words to that darn song....now you guys know I am a country girl at heart.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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The only reason I stop by the DB thread once in a while is to watch the grown up kids insult ea other. Makes a person wonder about what people are really like

I agree with Matt insulting someones mom is way over the top But thats just me.

R

we ALL need to be on guard NOT to talk politics.

Quade's post should be a reminder to all of us - to keep politics out of the Cooper thread - well, until the election is over anyway! Darn that is a hard one!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

All of you jumpers out there - especially around the late 60's - Do you remember a jumper by the name of V. Pennington - probably a recreational jumper and may have jumped in the Georgia area. Had pitch black straight hair - (I actually thought maybe it was a wig). He would be younger than myself by at least 15 yrs I guess. I will guess he was early 30's when I met him in 1978.

Note had a daughter named Robin - he sent Duane a picture of her when we lived in CO.

NO REASON to state why I want to find this guy. I contacted the person I thought he was several yrs ago and the wife said he was there - but the man denied being the person I was looking for.

I haven't mentioned this before - but, NOW I need to FIND him (dead or alive) and to know the extent of his jump knowledge. One of those time when I met someone from Duane's past and at this stage driven to find. I realize the man may well be deceased now - but, I do want to know his HISTORY!

If someone has some information - email me at my private email acct and do NOT blurt it out on the thread. If the information is on target - I have a picture of him (from around 1976) but refuse to throw a pic out of someone who may not have known who his "friend" was.

Send me a pic and a location and lets see if it matches what I have - I DO have a PIC and he had several children and he had a farm. Match what I have and we go from there.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Georger you made the statement below recently to Blevins and I wish to repeat it.

How very unfortunate! Now we understand - thanks
for sharing that with the Group.

Did you work on any of the things we talked about
in Group last week?

? ? ?



Now I want to know why someone like Blevins can claim to not be bias and yet not take on the simplest of assignments. I asked him to find out if there was a SIGN indicating Paradise Park on the Interstate in 1979.

He had boasted about it being so prominent and what I want him to do is PROVE it with 1979 pictures - NOT later pictures.

I also enquired about a covert that went under the Highway - did it take one to Paradise Park?
I do not have a map that shows details in that part of the state in 1979.

I was not looking for road signs, but surely I would have remembered one that was as prominent as Blevins claimed in 1979. It was late Sept of 1979 when I was there with Duane.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber