DB Cooper

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

I am up for having my DBC twenty tested.

Any specific suggestions?

Maybe DMSE at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Maybe Center for Molecular Analysis at Carnegie-Mellon. I dunno.

I would sent a query letter asking

A) If they are interested.
B) What you want them to look for.
C) Ask why THEY would be best for this job.
D) Set parameters on how much of the bill they can 'take' (see: destroy) for research, if any.
["If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe
/reply]

E) Include Name and Return Address.

• Quote

[Farflung 0]

I read that georger, and was stunned at the lack of detail again.

I was looking for examples of bacterial damage to paper, linen, fabric or anything and could not find an exemplar.

Is the type of paper eating bacteria aerobic or anaerobic? What is the consumption rate? Temperature band? Can anything be gleaned from the statement that the money appears to be damaged by bacteria?

I found the margins of the silverfish damaged items to be quite similar. Also silverfish breathe air and like damp environments. Just a little bit more information to aid with the guess-ology. I think having an entomologist look at 377’s bill would be worth the cross check.

Was there no bacteria graveyard in any of this stuff that a THOR-9000 microscope could have picked up? I don’t know, just asking and not too satisfied with the ‘analysis’.

[Amazon 7]

U.S. paper currency is composed of 75 percent cotton and 25 percent linen ... not your run of the mill "paper"

[Farflung 0]

What type of bacteria eat cotton and linen?

Silverfish are omnivores and will consume both.

I used paper as a generic term, here’s a quote from me earlier today:

“But I do know that American currency is NOT made of paper but, cotton, linen and silk. That’s right, I took a tour of the Bureau of Engraving, so that makes me an expert and qualifies me to rebuke and denounce any statements I want to.”

But everything has to be like nailing Jell-O to the wall, everything, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

I’m sure there’s some evidence of bacteria that leaves the same damage pattern, I’ll just keep looking, after all, it’s already narrowed down to seven or eight types.

[georger 244]

Quote

I read that georger, and was stunned at the lack of detail again.

I was looking for examples of bacterial damage to paper, linen, fabric or anything and could not find an exemplar.

Is the type of paper eating bacteria aerobic or anaerobic? What is the consumption rate? Temperature band? Can anything be gleaned from the statement that the money appears to be damaged by bacteria?

I found the margins of the silverfish damaged items to be quite similar. Also silverfish breathe air and like damp environments. Just a little bit more information to aid with the guess-ology. I think having an entomologist look at 377’s bill would be worth the cross check.

Was there no bacteria graveyard in any of this stuff that a THOR-9000 microscope could have picked up? I don’t know, just asking and not too satisfied with the ‘analysis’.

Let me try to answer these: I suppose due to
constraints of space, Tom is just giving conclusions;
not the whole process that occurred to support his
conclusions, but to what extent, I don't know. He
doesnt give any references either, so I basically
agree with your reaction. I wanted more and better -
it would be customary to cite references and citations
somewhere (at the end of the website)? It leaves me
unsettled.

The chemistry of currency paper is to some extent
resistant to bacterial invasion - by design. Let me
consult my files and I will get back on this. Failing
that I can call my paper chemistry guy who worked
at the Mint and ask him again, specifically. Tom
probably has an answer to this because (frankly)
I dont think he would stumble into this blindly. His
conclusion(s) may be wrong, but its not something
he would make up out of wholecloth. For one thing,
he had a materials person working with him, who is
some kind of expert on breakage and degenerative
processes ... I think that person probably had some
input into this, but you would have to ask Tom.

Silverfish: Those hole patterns are quite similar,
plus they work in upper layers of shorelines where
there is decomposing wood etc. One thing did strike
me along these lines, given Tom's use of the word
'cuts' or 'cutting' in reference to species like silver-
fish. It isn't as simple as 'cuts' (and consumption).
I know that for a fact. Species like this often secret
enzymes which softens and starts the digestive
process of the things their jaws are cutting or
chewing ... and enzymes like that would show up in
an analysis, and especially in dna.

In previous posts here at DZ some people aksed if
the holes (and pitting) was the result of high velocity
sand (from the dredge pipe)! We went around and
around about that. Snowmman finally said "NO!".

Unless I am mistaken, Tom didnt seem to find very
much sand embadded in the fibres of the paper -
which kind of surprised me. That may indicates this
paper never encountered high velocity sand...

But I keep coming back to the vertical profile of
habitable zones you can take through a shoreline,
and the different species you would encounter in
each zone. Palmer dug a deep trench but apparently
didn't keep lab samples to document the vertical
profile, which might have been nice to have to
compare with species found (or not found) in the
money. It would have been a simple thing to do.

[georger 244]

Quote

U.S. paper currency is composed of 75 percent cotton and 25 percent linen ... not your run of the mill "paper"

Its not as simple as that, Amazon. Currency paper
goes through several chemical processes involving a
number of compounds (brighteners, softeners,
fixatives, etc) and one may be Titanium oxide (a
whitener-softener which helps seal the fibres and
keep them flat for printing) ... let me consult my
files. But the chemsitry is very specific in that serie
of bills given Cooper. I think a number of the
compounds used are bacteria resistent - for a few
months at least.

[Farflung 0]

That was the point georger regarding the report. I would have at least had an entomologist or microbiologist review my theory?...conclusion? before publishing the results? Is this really new ground on this thread? Who published a report in college, work or even for the gubberment without some review AND validation thrown at the thing? This was the result of years correct? I know it is a volunteer thing and all that, but I could have obtained advanced degrees in the subjects while waiting. So a little more precision is not an unreasonable expectation.

When I do ask these questions, they are not the product of a random question generating machine which is next to my facial recognition machine. I actually take some time to do a little comparative analysis, benchmarking and sanity checking before presenting myself as the cause and circumstance, for a case of terminal butthurt to some stranger. I don’t care about the author, I do care about the data.

I asked about the test protocol which rendered all this irrefutable data about dredging and can’t find a thing. Was sand imbedded in the money from high speed water flow? Under what parameters? Single bill, single bundle, loosely placed in a canvas bag, tightly packed in a canvas bag, 100 yards per hour flow rate, 250 yards per hour…… all of this is brushed off as nuisance or noise because it’s already in the web site. Where?

Now the same pattern regarding the type of damage experienced by the currency. From broad sweeping generalizations like, narrowing down the damage sourced to bacteria, of which there are hundreds of thousands of varieties…. Millions? To the precision of money not being paper but cotton and linen. The mind boggles at how near impossible it is to obtain some balance in communications, while adding the burdens of being honest and concise. But it takes half a dozen iterations to get an answer about the color of orange juice and far more for the name of a facial recognition software package.

It may be wishful thinking, but if 377 can find some third party, fresh, clean and unbiased college students, to do some analysis, there may be some data which actually follows some logical path of development and only take weeks instead of years. If I know enough to determine that it is bacteria, then I know enough to consult with a microbiologist, irrespective of them being on the team or a close personal friend. Why this is always like paddling a canoe in the Tar Pits of La Brea, can only, and always lead to a very unflattering answer. There now, I’m done.

[georger 244]

Quote

That was the point georger regarding the report. I would have at least had an entomologist or microbiologist review my theory?...conclusion? .

Not to mention the fact Tom was only looking at 3
bills - not a representative sample. I made other
arrangements but they fell through at the last
minute.

One does what one can do and then gives it up.

[mrshutter45 21]

this is close but doesn't say the type of insect.....

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Insects-destroy-Idaho-countys-historic-documents-172509711.html

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Farflung 0]

Here’s a chapter on the various types of dredging and how they are selected:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/013/i1883e/i1883e06.pdf

Looks like it was written by the British, with the extra letter ‘U’s in the spelling and the metric measurements. But they have great beer, plus British women are known for having a certain ample feature, so I don’t bust their chops too much. So I figured it would qualify for posting on this fine electronic dais.

As suspected, dredge material is pretty well, if not completely known before the project. This drives the type of system which is selected. I was trying to work out how one could effectively ‘filter’ sand in an operation processing hundreds of yards per hour. It is fundamentally, preemptively filtered, by survey. So if there is a rock mixed in with the sand deposit, it will be sucked into the system also.

It also lists the advantage of cutter/suction dredging, as handling sand and weeds. The disadvantage is the requirement to have the spoils be sent directly to a deposit site. So that would make the cutter/suction process the least complicated since there is no decanting or secondary transfer after removal.

It would appear reasonable (although I’m cursed with not knowing as fact), that a waterlogged bag could come to rest near the same place that deposited similar, low density material. If a cutter/suction dredge was used at Tena Bar and it was moored for the entire operation, AND IF the money was the product of dredging, then the location of the money should be relatively finite.

That is, using linear extrapolation of Tena Bar and 1974, divided by 10 miles (from V-23), is 3.33 miles per year of Cooper stuff to drift. Given the remaining length of the Columbia, and assuming the same rate of travel, would dump DB into the Pacific Ocean around the year 2000. But he didn’t die, so that didn’t happen, thus saving at least three pairs of underwear, from a premature washing.

Since this has already been dismissed through thoughtful (as in no one has been burned alive) ‘Flat Earth’ techniques, there’s no other possible explanation other than a – ‘Man in the Loop’, active burial, near a money eating bacteria colony, on a riverbank, where hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of dredge material, just happen to be processed.

Awesome!

[377 22]

Another great Farf poster for my refrigerator. Thanks. How did you get the progressively shredded money images?

So imagining DBC, against all odds, landing in the Columbia. At that point it doesn't matter if you are under a canopy or go in as a no pull. Your life is over. What a bummer. I will assume that didn't happen. I want a clever resourceful folk hero, not a splat or splash in the night.

I like Georger's analysis that showed how unlikely a Columbia landing was. I am free to pick and choose my evidence aren't I?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

I read that georger, and was stunned at the lack of detail again.

I was looking for examples of bacterial damage to paper, linen, fabric or anything and could not find an exemplar.

Is the type of paper eating bacteria aerobic or anaerobic? What is the consumption rate? Temperature band? Can anything be gleaned from the statement that the money appears to be damaged by bacteria?

I found the margins of the silverfish damaged items to be quite similar. Also silverfish breathe air and like damp environments. Just a little bit more information to aid with the guess-ology. I think having an entomologist look at 377’s bill would be worth the cross check.

Was there no bacteria graveyard in any of this stuff that a THOR-9000 microscope could have picked up? I don’t know, just asking and not too satisfied with the ‘analysis’.

------------------------------------------------------------
I am always suspicious of TK's conclusions. Remember this guy does science for a hobby. He may have taken high school chemistry. His wimpy analysis and conclusions may be because he lacks formal education, training, and experience in scientific inquiry. We'd be better served with someone with real credentials in science. MeyerLouie

[Farflung 0]

You can pick and choose whatever makes you happy 377. I’ve got an investment plan where cheap land is being acquired in North Dakota, where those idiots grow low value crops like beets. Anyway, I’ve contracted with some nurseries to deliver citrus trees by the tens of thousands and dominate the Dakota citrus market. You should send me money, cuz it’s a sure thing. I can’t believe no one has picked this location and that crop before, stupid people before me.

You would be preaching to the choir in regard to the narrow timing of landing in the Columbia. It’s a binary bet using the simplest starting point, nothing more. For I live in a world where other theories can live in harmony. They just need to have the touch points and action items mapped out, as a minimum display of thinking through what they are proposing. Otherwise, the thread will be filled with half witted theories that have no basis in probability or….. never mind….. I just caught myself. I read a comment yesterday where the Citizen Sleuth report was not read by that person (hint, it’s not me or you), BUT….. wait for it…. little longer….. “it’s wrong!” That makes my brain laugh.

I have added some probability to the Columbia deep six theory, where there really isn’t much of another option for a ‘no-pull’ after station passage Portland. Its 9.2 nautical miles or about three minutes from the VORTAC to feet dry Oregon.

Now for some more wild-assed assumptions with a no-pull. I don’t think that Cooper landed on a street, parking lot or roof top. I know this is radical stuff and I may need to cool my jets here.

Then I took a tiny cross section of suburbia and color coded roof lines and asphalt, leaving places for a no-pull to prang and perhaps, not be discovered. This in spite of the fact, that my neighbor can discover a weed in my yard. Thus illustrating the odds of NOT blundering upon Cooper’s body in the more developed areas. I know it seems obvious, but plenty of people have stated that “Cooper could be anywhere”.

In the attached example, the last minute before penetrating Oregon, has two basic options. Cooper landed in suburbia and has not been discovered OR he splashed in the Columbia and delivered the money to Tena Bar.

Since I’m one of the few handicapped with NO inside or special knowledge, I’m doomed to follow the data/evidence and see where it branches, THEN add complexity when information allows. Otherwise, I’ll be investing in coconut groves in Fargo.

[BobKnoss 0]

Quote

Quote

I read that georger, and was stunned at the lack of detail again.

I was looking for examples of bacterial damage to paper, linen, fabric or anything and could not find an exemplar.

Is the type of paper eating bacteria aerobic or anaerobic? What is the consumption rate? Temperature band? Can anything be gleaned from the statement that the money appears to be damaged by bacteria?

I found the margins of the silverfish damaged items to be quite similar. Also silverfish breathe air and like damp environments. Just a little bit more information to aid with the guess-ology. I think having an entomologist look at 377’s bill would be worth the cross check.

Was there no bacteria graveyard in any of this stuff that a THOR-9000 microscope could have picked up? I don’t know, just asking and not too satisfied with the ‘analysis’.

------------------------------------------------------------
I am always suspicious of TK's conclusions. Remember this guy does science for a hobby. He may have taken high school chemistry. His wimpy analysis and conclusions may be because he lacks formal education, training, and experience in scientific inquiry. We'd be better served with someone with real credentials in science. MeyerLouie

I flunked Nat Sci 101 almost twice, but The Society of Plastics Engineers verifies that I am a Plastics Engineer, so I must be as qualified as necessary to run your dog and pony tests on planted evidence. A criminal degree from prison would be what YOU guys are looking for, certainly not real facts from real people you could actually ASK~~ The money is real, stored underground in a milk can, maybe even stainless, and was probably attacked by mold spores from the dark moist earthy storage. I doubt that moths did it. I doubt that chiggers did it. Maybe it was done by lime Kool-Aide.

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I read that georger, and was stunned at the lack of detail again.

I was looking for examples of bacterial damage to paper, linen, fabric or anything and could not find an exemplar.

Is the type of paper eating bacteria aerobic or anaerobic? What is the consumption rate? Temperature band? Can anything be gleaned from the statement that the money appears to be damaged by bacteria?

I found the margins of the silverfish damaged items to be quite similar. Also silverfish breathe air and like damp environments. Just a little bit more information to aid with the guess-ology. I think having an entomologist look at 377’s bill would be worth the cross check.

Was there no bacteria graveyard in any of this stuff that a THOR-9000 microscope could have picked up? I don’t know, just asking and not too satisfied with the ‘analysis’.

------------------------------------------------------------
I am always suspicious of TK's conclusions. Remember this guy does science for a hobby. He may have taken high school chemistry. His wimpy analysis and conclusions may be because he lacks formal education, training, and experience in scientific inquiry. We'd be better served with someone with real credentials in science. MeyerLouie

I flunked Nat Sci 101 almost twice, but The Society of Plastics Engineers verifies that I am a Plastics Engineer, so I must be as qualified as necessary to run your dog and pony tests on planted evidence. A criminal degree from prison would be what YOU guys are looking for, certainly not real facts from real people you could actually ASK~~

Bob, you are mixing us up with the "Deception thread" across the hall

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

Bob, you are mixing us up with the "Deception thread" across the hall...

No confusion. You are crystal clear. Bury anything of eventual value. Ignore any pertinent facts. If you can't discredit facts, discredit the individual. Does not work that way. The truth is independent and stands by itself. You are just blowing in the wind, showing your colors, using anything you can to quiet exposure of the real transgressions of the Pentagon, FBI, and FAA in executing Project Norjak for the Nixon Administration. Ask your buddies in high places. The truth is there for the asking.

[mrshutter45 21]

you have been discredited over and over Bob........ end of story.
why have you been hiding and not mentioning names????

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Bob, you are mixing us up with the "Deception thread" across the hall...

No confusion. You are crystal clear. Bury anything of eventual value. Ignore any pertinent facts. If you can't discredit facts, discredit the individual. Does not work that way. The truth is independent and stands by itself. You are just blowing in the wind, showing your colors, using anything you can to quiet exposure of the real transgressions of the Pentagon, FBI, and FAA in executing Project Norjak for the Nixon Administration. Ask your buddies in high places. The truth is there for the asking.

Keep typing Bobby! The printer and copier are humming along!

Remember those notes you refer too will need to be REAL and HANDY soon!
I hope I can be apart of it!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

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Is there a fungus, among us?

Or am I just fishing with this?

I think it is a sterling option.

TK website: "Enough holes were present in various
stages of decomposition that it could be determined
that the holes were not clean cuts from insects, but
appeared to start as a color change (Fig. 1A)
progressing to shredding of the fibers (Fig. 1B), and
finally to all the fibers in the hole disappearing (Fig.
1C). This is most consistent with a bacterial colony
that is consuming the paper."

ALSO paper mites and mold.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Tena's Bar leased to a private company? Jo, are you aware that federal regulations apply to rivers, their shores, flood areas, etc.

What is your source of information for making the lease claim? Do you even have a source?

Robert99

Yes, I have source or two - I do NOT know why the source would lie.....If he did then I would find that very suspicious.

In fact I had 2 sources tell me the same thing - are they both lieing? Perhaps the wording should have been beach access, but the party who told me this said leased to and no more Cooper searches as part of the agreement.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

What type of bacteria eat cotton and linen?

Silverfish are omnivores and will consume both.

I used paper as a generic term, here’s a quote from me earlier today:

“But I do know that American currency is NOT made of paper but, cotton, linen and silk. That’s right, I took a tour of the Bureau of Engraving, so that makes me an expert and qualifies me to rebuke and denounce any statements I want to.”

But everything has to be like nailing Jell-O to the wall, everything, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

I’m sure there’s some evidence of bacteria that leaves the same damage pattern, I’ll just keep looking, after all, it’s already narrowed down to seven or eight types.

Paper mites would eat the paper portions leaving the threads of the linen or am I wrong in this assumption.

I am just going by old things stored for many yrs in basements and attics (the attic tuff was dry). Moths eat the fabric so doubt it was moths, but the wing of some kind of moth was found - could it be a termite wing. Just throwing things out there for you guys to consider.

There was an article from many yrs ago I read about old money being found in the wall of a basement - some of that money was hard and brittle. Can't remember where - but it was an article in the news paper in the last 25 yrs.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

[reply

In previous posts here at DZ some people aksed if the holes (and pitting) was the result of high velocity sand (from the dredge pipe)! We went around and around about that. Snowmman finally said "NO!".

Unless I am mistaken, Tom didn't seem to find very much sand embedded in the fibers of the paper - which kind of surprised me. That may indicates this paper never encountered high velocity sand...

So with that part of TK work how can they claim it wash down the river in a flood or by natural mean?

Answer that question?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I hung in here tonight to read all the posts and make some replies, but I am VERY VERY sick tonight - afraid to lay down, but I am exhausted. LONG day and not much sleep last night.

Taking my plastic basin to bed with me! Need I say more.

BYE!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Tom Kaye has claimed that because of the condition of the rubber bands, and his tests on similar rubber bands, that this restricts the arrival of the money on Tena Bar to no more than a year.

A: Tom doesn't know what the 'condition; of the
rubber bands on the Ingram find was, now does he.
He wasnt there. He had no samples of the Ingram
bands. And, as a matter of FACT: he was not able
to duplicate the /condition/ of the Ingram bands
because, he had no Ingram bands or band
fragments to try and duplicate or compare with.
The most Tom is entitled to say is: MY RUBBER
BANDS I got from Alliance would not have
survived more than a year, whatever that means.

We were always promised an engineering report
from Alliance but Im almost willing to bet Alliance
never came through and provided one. If Tom did
finally receive an engeering test report, as they
promised, then where are Tom's test of 'his' rubber
bands which duplicates the Alliance engineering test
report? I want to see actual stress tests, temperature
tests, etc etc. The tests Tom chose to do may not
actually duplicate the conditions the Ingram bands
experienced - its an open question.

In short, I dont think Tom is entitled to draw any
conclusions from the few tests he did, and his tests
are not quantitative, and he's missing the Ingram
bands to compare with - - -


I give this 'human intervention' idea a possible motive. Suppose you were the hijacker

A: You are big on Motivations. Suppose you were a camel!


Yes, I think at least one of the bills, or more, should be turned over to a suitable science

A: One bill? Representative sample? How any and
which bills would be a representative sample in your
motivation?


As it stands now, the money actually creates more questions than the answers it offers.

A: I tend to agree. There are a few very clear-cut
issues with the money that might be worth having
answered and possibly have ramifications. However,
between the FBI and Tom, there does not appear to
be anything obvious 'in the money' which would
positively link it to the Washougal basin, especially
a longterm stay there. One central problem is we
dont really know how much was on Tena Bar to begin
with, if the Ingram bundles are an isolated group, or
part of a larger group of money, that was in a
container perhaps. There is this persistent rumor
that part of a briefcase was uncovered by the FBI
during their excavation?

Taking the evidence which currently exists, about the
only two things that can besaid of that money is:
(a) the money evidences traits and markers of
Columbia River water/sediments, and (b) the money
has traits/markers of having been at Tena Bar and
perhaps Tena Bar specifically, as opposed to other
places.

Tom and others keep wanting to use the rubber
bands as a clock, and I dont think anyone has
proved that case with reliability yet.

And I dont think the choice between Mechanical vs
Human Intervention vs Natural, has been proved at
all, because for one thing all of the logical possibil-
lities in each catagory have not been listed or
explored, in Toms work or anywhere else.

We know that things arrive on Tena Bar hydrolog-
ically all the time, but evidently not a bunch of paper
money. Other things including other paper, cartons,
wood, etc arrive there all the time, but not bundles
of Cooper cash. Maybe the cash got there inside a
dead camel, inside a paper carton, on a beached
steamer bound for Reno?

Maybe the reason the money hasnt solved anything
to date is because so little hard data has been
furnished about the money that matters, in years of
work! Du ya 'spose?

Screw MIT and Melon, as per Blevins' suggestion,
where I have plenty of friends and relatives! FBI's
Quantico and the Forensic Section of the US
Treasury Dept could analyse that money, and should
have already. Get this one-trick poney on the road...

[sailshaw 0]

Blevins: Thanks for the refreshing thoughts about the DB Caper. I like the rubber band quote:

"UW Burke Museum's Tom Kaye has claimed that because of the condition of the rubber bands, and his tests on similar rubber bands, that this restricts the arrival of the money on Tena Bar to no more than a year."


Is probably OK that the bands would only last one year. However, if the three packs of 20's were placed in the paper bad DB brought onboard when refused by the Crew. Also, it the bag with the three packs were stuffed in DB's shirt. Could it be the wind blast blew the bag of twentys out of his shirt on the way down and floated to a tree and then to the Columbia river and on to Tina's Bar? That paper bag could have served as the container to keep the three pack together and then when enough time took place the bag was no longer there, puff! Anyway, I think this is a very possible explanation of the known facts with a little added guessing.

Now, has anyone heard if the FBI has got the four letters with the DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps to their lab for testing yet? I am still hoping that it happens by the end of this year and blows this case wide open. Forty years is long enough for the case to go unsolved. Go FBI, do your thing!!!

Another thought. All the things found (plackard, Amboy chute, Tina Bar money etc...) there has been no body or chute found in all these years. Does that not indicate that he made it and is still alive and well?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com