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Farflung 0
Georger asks:
“If there is a forensic match between
something in the money and something in the
Tena Bar dredge debris, then you must account
for the coincidence.
Behind and above the Ingram find was a retention
ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into
that ditch which at least on paper had the potential
to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of
it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its
contents in the money, in that agri setting?”
I couldn’t agree more with the statement, it is the process which I have issues with.
First, when I hear hoof-beats, I thing horses before zebras. This is the mnemonic which drives my thought processes, analysis and bullshit filtration. Silver was discovered on some of the money so……. what narrows the scope? Silver Nitrate? Sure I guess, was there nitric acid or some other inorganic matter which would point to the fingerprinting chemicals? Is silver nitrate MOST commonly used in fingerprint analysis versus something more pedestrian, like hair dyes or photographic processing, which would offer a higher percentage of exposure to the chemical? Why is this, the only research report I’ve read that doesn’t have a laundry list of tested and failed components? If cow pee-pee was tested, then it should be in the report, I didn’t see anything which proves that bovine urine wasn’t a culprit and what a shame if someone tests that theory in the future. But just doing things randomly makes people happy, so a second or third look into a container of cow waste is no big offense here, and I has a suspicion that some people just enjoy looking at the stuff anyway.
I’m just seeing a semi-justified, random walk which is, poorly documented thus causing confusion where there should be none or at least less. Why are exemplar bills on the Bureau of Engraving and Printing website colored black which were buried? Why isn’t this documented condition eliminated before looking at fingerprint chemicals or animal tinkle?
If the money would turn black while buried away from sources of silver nitrate and cow number one, then what drives or delineates checking other agents in the environment which may or will cause currency to blacken? This is what I don’t understand.
“If there is a forensic match between
something in the money and something in the
Tena Bar dredge debris, then you must account
for the coincidence.
Behind and above the Ingram find was a retention
ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into
that ditch which at least on paper had the potential
to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of
it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its
contents in the money, in that agri setting?”
I couldn’t agree more with the statement, it is the process which I have issues with.
First, when I hear hoof-beats, I thing horses before zebras. This is the mnemonic which drives my thought processes, analysis and bullshit filtration. Silver was discovered on some of the money so……. what narrows the scope? Silver Nitrate? Sure I guess, was there nitric acid or some other inorganic matter which would point to the fingerprinting chemicals? Is silver nitrate MOST commonly used in fingerprint analysis versus something more pedestrian, like hair dyes or photographic processing, which would offer a higher percentage of exposure to the chemical? Why is this, the only research report I’ve read that doesn’t have a laundry list of tested and failed components? If cow pee-pee was tested, then it should be in the report, I didn’t see anything which proves that bovine urine wasn’t a culprit and what a shame if someone tests that theory in the future. But just doing things randomly makes people happy, so a second or third look into a container of cow waste is no big offense here, and I has a suspicion that some people just enjoy looking at the stuff anyway.
I’m just seeing a semi-justified, random walk which is, poorly documented thus causing confusion where there should be none or at least less. Why are exemplar bills on the Bureau of Engraving and Printing website colored black which were buried? Why isn’t this documented condition eliminated before looking at fingerprint chemicals or animal tinkle?
If the money would turn black while buried away from sources of silver nitrate and cow number one, then what drives or delineates checking other agents in the environment which may or will cause currency to blacken? This is what I don’t understand.
QuoteGeorger asks:
“If there is a forensic match between
something in the money and something in the
Tena Bar dredge debris, then you must account
for the coincidence.
Behind and above the Ingram find was a retention
ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into
that ditch which at least on paper had the potential
to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of
it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its
contents in the money, in that agri setting?”Quote
QUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? When I was out there in 2000 I could see a tributary or ditch to the West of the House and to the West of the money find. Perhaps that little tributary or drain ditch was NOT the retention ditch you guys are talking about.
IF it was the money had to go against the current! I do know that the map someone presented was NOT accurate as to the way the property appeared from the river in 2000.
I disputed this but NO one heard me because JT was down my throat. The shape of the house on the map presented was not the shape of the house I saw on the river and the parking area was East of the house with the road being North of the house.
Pehaps some one should post up the maps with dates on them.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Farflung wrote:
QuoteFirst, when I hear hoof-beats, I thin[k] horses before zebras.
I think Unicorns.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Robert99 50
QuoteQUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? When I was out there in 2000 I could see a tributary or ditch to the West of the House and to the West of the money find. Perhaps that little tributary or drain ditch was NOT the retention ditch you guys are talking about.
IF it was the money had to go against the current! I do know that the map someone presented was NOT accurate as to the way the property appeared from the river in 2000.
I disputed this but NO one heard me because JT was down my throat. The shape of the house on the map presented was not the shape of the house I saw on the river and the parking area was East of the house with the road being North of the house.
Pehaps some one should post up the maps with dates on them.
Jo, You do understand that the Columbia River runs almost straight north and south at the Fazio property don't you? "Downstream" is to the north and "upstream" is to the south.
The NW Lower River Road runs north and south also. Presumably, you are referring to the parking lot by the sand operation which is south of the driveway to the house.
Robert99
Farflung 0
OK, so I’ve had to set my expectations before running out to the field to sample some farm tank.
It’s a force of habit in the private sector where unlimited or assigned budgets are relatively rare. But this is just a little more information which is based upon some ‘reasonable’ assumptions.
I would expect that silver nitrate laced bills, would show the greatest degree of blackening and a pseudo random distribution, throughout the stacks. Make sense?
The urine soaked money would (should) have a markedly different distribution since there is a macro migration of silver(?) tainted cow piss passing through the money burial site. Again I have to assume that silver is a component in cattle wee, since there isn’t anything identified as a component of the stuff. I would have assumed nitrates to be present, but since the CS report makes no mention of the stuff, outside a casual conversation, that’s all I got.
The playing cards represent bundles of Cooper money, buried on Tena Bar, which have been separated in a sequential fashion.
It’s a force of habit in the private sector where unlimited or assigned budgets are relatively rare. But this is just a little more information which is based upon some ‘reasonable’ assumptions.
I would expect that silver nitrate laced bills, would show the greatest degree of blackening and a pseudo random distribution, throughout the stacks. Make sense?
The urine soaked money would (should) have a markedly different distribution since there is a macro migration of silver(?) tainted cow piss passing through the money burial site. Again I have to assume that silver is a component in cattle wee, since there isn’t anything identified as a component of the stuff. I would have assumed nitrates to be present, but since the CS report makes no mention of the stuff, outside a casual conversation, that’s all I got.
The playing cards represent bundles of Cooper money, buried on Tena Bar, which have been separated in a sequential fashion.
377 22
Another great poster Farf. You have a knack for using graphics to explain concepts.
It's been a while since you've had any hot nuns gracing your artwork. Have you gotten religious or married or has some similar moral cleansing or censorship occurred?
377
It's been a while since you've had any hot nuns gracing your artwork. Have you gotten religious or married or has some similar moral cleansing or censorship occurred?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
CCharger 0
The issue of the money cannot be solved until someone can pinpoint where DB bailed. If we know he bailed over the Columbia then we can pretty much assume what happened.
So. Where did he bail? The assumed time has been 8:13 when the crew felt the pressure bump. But wash that 8:13:00, 8:13:30, or 8:13:59? Traveling at 225 mph, even 30 seconds amounts to nearly 2 miles difference.
Nevertheless, the time of 8:13 puts DB bailout somehwhere just west of Battleground, WA. Given, a 1000 yard "forward push", in a "no pull" scenario, DB would have come down somewhere near Salmon Creek.
Considering the Salmon Creek flows into Lake River almost directly behind Tena Bar, it seems as if the pieces fit.
The only bugger is how did the money get over to the OTHER side of Tena Bar? My guess, as I have said is some funky hydraulics that pushed some of the money back down to the south.
I would like to know how long it would take for a bag of money to float down the Salmon River from Battleground.
So. Where did he bail? The assumed time has been 8:13 when the crew felt the pressure bump. But wash that 8:13:00, 8:13:30, or 8:13:59? Traveling at 225 mph, even 30 seconds amounts to nearly 2 miles difference.
Nevertheless, the time of 8:13 puts DB bailout somehwhere just west of Battleground, WA. Given, a 1000 yard "forward push", in a "no pull" scenario, DB would have come down somewhere near Salmon Creek.
Considering the Salmon Creek flows into Lake River almost directly behind Tena Bar, it seems as if the pieces fit.
The only bugger is how did the money get over to the OTHER side of Tena Bar? My guess, as I have said is some funky hydraulics that pushed some of the money back down to the south.
I would like to know how long it would take for a bag of money to float down the Salmon River from Battleground.
QuoteJo,
Blevins book is free. No cost. How can you characterize that as a commercial exploitation?
I don't understand the venom. Blevins somehow is a venom magnet. I just don't feel the pull. You, Georger and many others do.
377
It is almost like there is a HUGE misplaced personal fear, he might be right, and that would make a few look foolish.
Me, I'm going to Mexico, Cabo Wabo, and have a beer with a near 90 year old expat, Paratrooper, SF type. Seems more plausible to me.
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
mrshutter45 21
"This would have been the safest way to do it. I can't prove this theory"
how could you say that was the "safest way" without any proof of it? if you told me it has been done this way, then yes.
how could you say that was the "safest way" without any proof of it? if you told me it has been done this way, then yes.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
QuoteQuoteQUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? When I was out there in 2000 I could see a tributary or ditch to the West of the House and to the West of the money find. Perhaps that little tributary or drain ditch was NOT the retention ditch you guys are talking about.
IF it was the money had to go against the current! I do know that the map someone presented was NOT accurate as to the way the property appeared from the river in 2000.
I disputed this but NO one heard me because JT was down my throat. The shape of the house on the map presented was not the shape of the house I saw on the river and the parking area was East of the house with the road being North of the house.
Pehaps some one should post up the maps with dates on them.
Jo, You do understand that the Columbia River runs almost straight north and south at the Fazio property don't you? "Downstream" is to the north and "upstream" is to the south.
The NW Lower River Road runs north and south also. Presumably, you are referring to the parking lot by the sand operation which is south of the driveway to the house.
Robert99
Since I don't live there I did NOT know that and just never even thought about it. Perhaps why some who do live there didn't understand what I was saying.
So since you seemed to know the location - please assist me with this. No wonder NO one understood what I was trying to say. The location we parked was behind the gate at its location in 1979.... I assumed that looking out from that point looking out at the river I was looking South..but was it DEAD WEST at that point? In other words looking across the river from the old gate of 1979 - the house was to the right but further toward the river than the place we parked. Someone help me out with this.
Thank You -
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Behind and above the Ingram find was a retention
ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into
that ditch which at least on paper had the potential
to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of
it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its
contents in the money, in that agri setting?”
QUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? (Perhaps this should state on the opposite side of the house from the gate? No wonder NO one GOT it!
The tributary I saw if that was the drain ditch as viewed from the river looking toward the back of the house was on my left.
Does the above rewording help any?I still do not know the directions from that point.
Now does that help you understand my question?
ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into
that ditch which at least on paper had the potential
to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of
it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its
contents in the money, in that agri setting?”
Quote
QUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? (Perhaps this should state on the opposite side of the house from the gate? No wonder NO one GOT it!
The tributary I saw if that was the drain ditch as viewed from the river looking toward the back of the house was on my left.
Does the above rewording help any?I still do not know the directions from that point.
Now does that help you understand my question?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Amazon 7
This is Salmon Creek where it is crossed by I-205. Please feel free to follow it thru the woods and up past the golf course... This was obviously taken in the spring based on how very green everything is.. During the summer it barely flows at all across the gravels and mud pits. http://binged.it/SAiWAm
mrshutter45 21
I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way"
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
Amazon 7
QuoteI don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way"
Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's.
mrshutter45 21
QuoteQuoteI don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way"
Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's.
agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
Yes it does but the effects in that part of the river is lift... not flow. The flow continues to the north downstream, in the main stream of the river the slough that the old marina was in.. did flow upstream ( INTO the slough) as the tide rose.. ONLY because it was a closed system... the flow in the channel around the marina at Caterpillar Island was always one way.. down stream even as the water level rose with the tide.. or with the outflow from Bonneville at different parts of the day based on electric generation. High water flows occurred causing the water to flow faster during and after storms.. or during floods during the winter.
I would love to see someone PROVE that money could get washed upstream from the mouth of the Lewis River/Lake River. That would be more than just a couple miles by river. Physics is against that possibility as well as personal observation and a hell of a lot of money for gas to make my boat go upriver in that very stretch of the river.
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