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QuoteMeyer Louie says in part:
Quote'I have another point to make Blevins. For some reason you think you are on the same level as Georger and others. Well, you're not. Co-writing a book and appearing on Decoded does not make you an expert. Some folks here are playing in the Big League with the big boys. You aren't there yet. Spending years and years on this case, interfacing with the FBI and the key players on a regular basis, for years, make one an expert -- makes one "Cooper royalty" if you will. There are only a handful of people in this elite group. You're not there yet -- and you want to be so badly. Give it time Blevins. Try to be credible, offer up your stuff in a respectful way, back it up with quotes, citations, references. Your unfounded, ridiculous assumptions continue to destroy your credibility. Some people here, who have been here for years, think you're a total idiot. That's going to be tough to overcome. Quit locking horns with Georger, you are not in his league! Give it time, quit trying so hard. Gee Blevins, c'mon. I've seen the good guy, let him come out...'
And yet...none of those people you mentioned have been able to solve the case, even after all those years of working on it. I don't care what posters on an internet forum think of me. I do care what the people I know in real life think of me. To a certain extent.
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So you don't give a rat's ass what people on the thread think of you, only those in real life? Why are you here then? If I had that attitude, I'd would not have any motivation for sticking around. By the way, you haven't solved the case either with your theory that is pretty much a chain of coincidences that proves nothing. You should care what people think of you here. Ain't you got no shame?__________________________________________________
See, here's the Real Deal: I never claimed to be a Cooper Expert, and that book was probably my one and only (supposedly) non-fiction work. But that book really isn't about DB Cooper, it's about Kenny Christiansen and whatever evidence exists on him as it relates to the Cooper case. Wasn't even an idea I thought up on my own. Let's face it...the groundwork was done by Geoff Gray and Skipp Porteous. If it's proven later that KC was definitely NOT DB Cooper, then I probably would stop posting here anyway. There wouldn't be any purpose to it because I'm not really interested in pursuing the case any further than I have already. I'm not a crime investigator or crime writer, like Ann Rule. I'm just Robert the Sci Fi Guy who Occasionally Edits Books. When I'm not doing that, I'm out in the mountains or something listening to Mariner or Seahawk games or MP3's of old radio shows like 'Dimension X' or 'X-Minus-1'. Or popping off my .45 S/W or that 30/30 Winnie I love so much. That's who I am, nothing more.
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I'd say that's a load of crap, Blevins. That's is not who you are trying to be here. Here, you are quite arrogant and insecure. I'd say you're the most disruptive person on the thread. Why wait till KC is proven not to be DBC to leave ? If you are not interested in pursuing anything any further, then why stay? Moreover, everyone has already heard your theory a thousand times. I know it by heart now. You actually admit that you have not had an original thought -- finally, some honesty.
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Look, if I considered myself Cooper Royalty I would have showed up at the Portland Symposium with my slideshow gear and countered Marla's claims with some of my own. Or, I would have gone around at Ariel saying, "I'm the guy who wrote that Cooper book..." Mostly I try to stay anonymous. I may go to the 2013 Symposium in Tacoma, but unless something new emerges on KC, then I'm just going to be in the audience.
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Don't worry Blevins, you are not Cooper Royalty. That's something that's earned, over years of creating a credible body of work. You haven't done that. Rather, you've tried to shove respect for you and your KC=DBC theory down everyone's throat. That ain't how you get respect and credibility.
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On Georger: He jumps on every post I make, no matter what it is. So IMHO his credibility, his opinions, mean zip to me. You have to pick and choose when to jump down someone's throat, and that should be for 'ridiculous assumptions' only, not because you just don't like someone. So I don't care what he says. That situation probably isn't going to get any better. We've both been banned twice now, mostly for arguing. These days I either ignore his posts, or respond to them in a comedic manner, rather than getting angry. Once in a while he brings up a sensible point on something without insults, and then I will answer that normally, more or less.
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Hey Blevins, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. You are not in the same league as Georger. You're Little League, he's Major League. He's played hard ball with the big boys, you haven't. He's spent years and years on the case, you've been here 3 years. He has academic credentials with an advanced degree, you don't -- I could go on. I am not trying to openly endorse Georger here, but facts are facts -- the truth is the truth. There are some people here (with real credentials and real experience) who don't have any patience for someone who regularly pops off with so many ridiculous, unfounded, outlandish assumptions and statements. Your respectability and credibility have been (permanently) damaged by it. There are people here who really know when someone doesn't have any clue or idea what they are talking about. Some people here have no patience for genuine, unadulterated, incompetence and ignorance. And I don't think you even give a rat's ass. But you should. You're making a fool of yourself.
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QuoteI once made it over Snoqualmie Pass in a snowstorm, driving a Corvair with four bald tires. But it's a different story on Forest Service roads at night, in winter. The real point is that she was sure it was the Brit sports car...until she was reminded what it's like up there above 1,500 feet or so.
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Blevins, I grew up in the snow country of Eastern Washington, and I have never heard of anyone being so ridiculous as to go over Snoqualmie Pass in a snow storm, in bald tires. You can't be serious. You got a death wish or what?
Blevins, get some good studded snow tires, then put about 500-600 pounds of sand in the back of your rig, a little in front of the rear axle (assuming you have rear-wheel drive), and you'll be able to go anywhere. A few years back I drove from Tacoma, WA to Kamloops, BC in a bigtime snow storm the whole way, and had absolutely no problems.
MeyerLouie
Amazon 7
QuoteAmazon says in part:
Quote'Nope.. Logging roads. no plows at all EVER.. they do run a grader over the main roads up there after the spring rut season.
If it was me making that jump I would have gotten out of the area NOT to the west.. but to the east.. and come out at Trout Lake... just my opinion. All roads in that area... go up or go down, and little roads will eventually head down to a larger.. lower numbered FS road.. Finding a road is usually pretty easy if you go downhill. There is a main low number forest service road that heads over that way from the Lakes. Totally unexpected by the ground pounders who were out looking...'
That is very good and puts you in the Four Wheeler Hall of Fame. Trout Lake, yes...good destination. Might be tough in wintertime without proper gear though. I'll admit if you were equipped, they'd never find you if you went that way. On a Cooper angle, I've always thought he just headed toward wherever he saw big lights on the way down, if any. I like the idea that maybe he just did the Big Hike Out, too. No, I don't go with it, but it's cool to consider.
No.. but the next spring I did get a 1957 Willys Pickemup
As far as that big hike....
Escape and Evasion works best when you do the unexpected.
georger 244
I'm guessing Cooper may have gotten a general idea where he was on the way down, assuming he pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. (Lights from interstate 5 maybe, or he figured out which way was west on the way down and kept it in mind) Then he probably just walked out from there. If he was in a really bad spot, he probably waited for first light. Marla's tale about someone cruising Forest Service roads, picking up an uncle within a short time, and making it back to Sisters in the morning...well, let's just say it's a bit of a stretch.
Nope.. Logging roads. no plows at all EVER.. they do run a grader over the main roads up there after the spring rut season.
If it was me making that jump I would have gotten out of the area NOT to the west.. but to the east.. and come out at Trout Lake... just my opinion. All roads in that area... go up or go down, and little roads will eventually head down to a larger.. lower numbered FS road.. Finding a road is usually pretty easy if you go downhill. There is a main low number forest service road that heads over that way from the Lakes. Totally unexpected by the ground pounders who were out looking.
What is your starting point - drop point vs. FBI flight
path?
I dont think anyone has ever suggested a route out
this far east _how then do you account for money at
Tina Bar?
georger 244
I may not know every detail on the Cooper case, but I'm not bad at rooting out crap from people either. People even got angry at me for questioning the FBI's results on the Amboy chute. They defended Cossey's one-sided assessment and simply forgave the Seattle FBI's ridiculous statements on it. Not my fault they tried to push that weak-ass story on everyone. Then the whole thing got buried.
There are the academics in this case. And then there are the renegades who question everything. I see myself more as the latter.
Question Everything.
"but I'm not bad at rooting out crap from people either"
Farflung and others would disagree with YOUR
assessment OF YOURSELF! One called you a
"pompous ass". Others called you "stupid".
Renegade? (an individual who rejects lawful or
conventional behavior....)
I guess the cosmic question you are posing for this
forum is: 'Is RobertMBlevins a renegare?'
Once again, Mr. Blevins forces the issue of himself above the issue of DB Cooper.
And Jo Weber may surface saying 'she' is the
dominant person and issue here.
Do sandwich makers care?
Amazon 7
QuoteI'm guessing Cooper may have gotten a general idea where he was on the way down, assuming he pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. (Lights from interstate 5 maybe, or he figured out which way was west on the way down and kept it in mind) Then he probably just walked out from there. If he was in a really bad spot, he probably waited for first light. Marla's tale about someone cruising Forest Service roads, picking up an uncle within a short time, and making it back to Sisters in the morning...well, let's just say it's a bit of a stretch.
Nope.. Logging roads. no plows at all EVER.. they do run a grader over the main roads up there after the spring rut season.
If it was me making that jump I would have gotten out of the area NOT to the west.. but to the east.. and come out at Trout Lake... just my opinion. All roads in that area... go up or go down, and little roads will eventually head down to a larger.. lower numbered FS road.. Finding a road is usually pretty easy if you go downhill. There is a main low number forest service road that heads over that way from the Lakes. Totally unexpected by the ground pounders who were out looking.
What is your starting point - drop point vs. FBI flight
path?
I dont think anyone has ever suggested a route out
this far east _how then do you account for money at
Tina Bar?
Amboy or Ariel to Trout Lake.. easy. on the way... you cross Wind River it comes out at Carson.. you could even exit that way in the Columbia River Gorge.
There are all kinds of logging roads in that area.. ANY good Forest Service or County map shows them. Stick to the lower numbers and those are the mainlines. most of the roads are fairly flat to travel.. and at night you can see lights coming or hear a vehicle coming to get off the road.
QuoteAmboy or Ariel to Trout Lake.. easy. on the way... you cross Wind River it comes out at Carson.. you could even exit that way in the Columbia River Gorge.
There are all kinds of logging roads in that area.. ANY good Forest Service or County map shows them. Stick to the lower numbers and those are the mainlines. most of the roads are fairly flat to travel.. and at night you can see lights coming or hear a vehicle coming to get off the road.
I am in a lot of pain tonight, but I have to look at something on the old maps. OLD maps.
Was there NOT camp up there?
What kind of camp was it in the late 40's? Duane knew all the roads - needed NO map. When I dig out the old map with areas marked - I will post them, but I am sure everyone will say Naah she made it all up. I would not acquire this map until after 2001.
But, I made marks on all the places Duane mentioned along our route that I could remember.
Wish I had the map when I was there in 2001 and had been free to get behind the wheel of a car like I did on the last visit in 2010.
I could NOT cover all the area I wanted to cover - so I just tried to go to the ones he actually took me to.
Sure as hell wish I could have found the area the the tower had been, but had been removed when Duane and I were there in 1989....the land was flat and not far from a set of tracks. The tree growth was low where the logging road had been to the tracks. He told me there used to be a shed there and he buried something behind it. The look on his face at this site sitting in the middle of the woods - I will never ever forget.
From the size of the trees - I would estimate the road and tower had not been used in several yrs. Perhaps the tower was taken down for safety reasons after the loggin company moved out. Probably was a development when I was there in 2010 - and why I could NOT find it.
I kept hoping someone would remember it and maybe have some old pics from 1978 and perhaps some old pics from 1971 and before. If anyone ever found such I would recognize it. I see it every time my mind revisits the trip in 1979.
I wish I had made pictures of all of that - then I wouldn't have to be proving myself to a bunch of jerks.
At any rate I can't hang in here much longer.
Good Night.
P.S. for Georger:
I read the Citzens Sleuth records - and I did NOT agree with the findings - as they were all influenced by a lot of evidence that has since been proven NOT VALID.
Such as the Dan Cooper Comics
The validity of the tie and other things. Just more of the same things that we discussed here. It was all about Larry Carr trying to MAKE a name for himself.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteMeyerLouie says in part:
Quote'Hey Blevins, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. You are not in the same league as Georger. You're Little League, he's Major League. He's played hard ball with the big boys, you haven't. He's spent years and years on the case, you've been here 3 years. He has academic credentials with an advanced degree, you don't -- I could go on. I am not trying to openly endorse Georger here, but facts are facts -- the truth is the truth. There are some people here (with real credentials and real experience) who don't have any patience for someone who regularly pops off with so many ridiculous, unfounded, outlandish assumptions and statements. Your respectability and credibility have been (permanently) damaged by it. There are people here who really know when someone doesn't have any clue or idea what they are talking about. Some people here have no patience for genuine, unadulterated, incompetence and ignorance. And I don't think you even give a rat's ass. But you should. You're making a fool of yourself...'
Wow, that's harsh. However, I don't base any possible credibility or respectability in my personal life solely on the Cooper case. That was a passing thing, a job, an assignment I took reluctantly that ended up costing me thousands of dollars and nearly bankrupting AB of Seattle. If Gayla Prociv hadn't finally said 'enough' we would not be in business today.
My only real contribution to the case is pretty simple. This guy in New York asked me to interview some people, so I did. Then I published the results. With the mailing to Curtis Eng at the Seattle FBI yesterday, I consider that job finished. It's in their hands now, whatever they choose to do with it. They probably won't do a thing.
There is another side to this Cooper Coin, and it's an ugly one. One thing I've discovered is that there is a lot of competition, a lot of ugliness involved. One only has to view the comments left on Regina's Kenny Christiansen article to see this. 382 comments, some VERY bad. This is why almost everyone who posts up something at YouTube about DB Cooper (other than stock footage) disallows commenting. They know better, because the Nasty Folk come out of the woodwork.
They do things like steal usernames from each other at Dropzone to make the filthy comments, for example. They use my name, Georger's name, Marla, Geoff Gray, Ckret, just about every name associated with the case imaginable. This proves that these people come from HERE to make their comments, although it's so screwy you don't know who is who for real. But that's the World of Cooper.
Credibility isn't about making mistakes. ('Scott went back to talk to Cooper.' 'Threw money into river at Paradise Point') It's about truth. No one has ever said I have lied to them regarding the Cooper case on anything. EVER.
People got angry when I shredded Marla's story, while the FBI and ABC News were swallowing that pap with a big wooden spoon. Why is that? You want to talk credibility, don't speak of Marla. As it turns out, I was right about the whole thing. All people did was get angry at me. Blame the messenger for the message. Here we are a year and some months later and look what happened: No one believes her anymore, the FBI was a negative on the tests, and Marla herself finally backed off on her claims. (This from Doug Kenck-Crispin, organizer of next year's Symposium)
I may not know every detail on the Cooper case, but I'm not bad at rooting out crap from people either. People even got angry at me for questioning the FBI's results on the Amboy chute. They defended Cossey's one-sided assessment and simply forgave the Seattle FBI's ridiculous statements on it. Not my fault they tried to push that weak-ass story on everyone. Then the whole thing got buried.
There are the academics in this case. And then there are the renegades who question everything. I see myself more as the latter. If you catch me lying on a point in the case, you can question my credibility. Those 'outlandish assumptions' you speak of were mostly times when I tossed theories out there. They were not statements of fact. Some made sense, others did not. One I still think makes sense is the idea (rather minor) that Cooper probably backed down the stairs and then pulled the ripcord right off the last step. But that's just a theory, of course.
Question Everything.
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What's in question is your credibility and respectability here. Nobody here knows your personal life, unless you've become friends with people here and invited them into your home. DZ knows of you mainly by what you say here on the thread.
So you think it's okay to be a rebel and a renegade here; that gives you license to say any ridiculous, outlandish, and unfounded thing you want to say.
You don't get it. That's exactly your problem. I get the impression that people like Georger have no patience for people who has not done their homework, nor does he have any patience for people who don't know what they're talking about. And just talking here doesn't cut it, and saying whatever pops into your head does't cut it either. Join the Deep Throat Forum if you want to do that.
You haven't lost credibility because you've lied, I don't think you intentionally ever try to lie. You've lost credibility because you haven't done your homework and you talk about things you know nothing about. Ever stop to think that these might be the reasons why some people here react so negatively toward you?
Maybe tomorrow morning Blevins, listen to your rice crispies. Do whatever they tell you to do. You might get better results with that.
MeyerLouie
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georger 244
QuoteQuoteI'm guessing Cooper may have gotten a general idea where he was on the way down, assuming he pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. (Lights from interstate 5 maybe, or he figured out which way was west on the way down and kept it in mind) Then he probably just walked out from there. If he was in a really bad spot, he probably waited for first light. Marla's tale about someone cruising Forest Service roads, picking up an uncle within a short time, and making it back to Sisters in the morning...well, let's just say it's a bit of a stretch.
Nope.. Logging roads. no plows at all EVER.. they do run a grader over the main roads up there after the spring rut season.
If it was me making that jump I would have gotten out of the area NOT to the west.. but to the east.. and come out at Trout Lake... just my opinion. All roads in that area... go up or go down, and little roads will eventually head down to a larger.. lower numbered FS road.. Finding a road is usually pretty easy if you go downhill. There is a main low number forest service road that heads over that way from the Lakes. Totally unexpected by the ground pounders who were out looking.
What is your starting point - drop point vs. FBI flight
path?
I dont think anyone has ever suggested a route out
this far east _how then do you account for money at
Tina Bar?
Amboy or Ariel to Trout Lake.. easy. on the way... you cross Wind River it comes out at Carson.. you could even exit that way in the Columbia River Gorge.
There are all kinds of logging roads in that area.. ANY good Forest Service or County map shows them. Stick to the lower numbers and those are the mainlines. most of the roads are fairly flat to travel.. and at night you can see lights coming or hear a vehicle coming to get off the road.
Interesting.
What kind of time estimate would you allow for
traversing this route until you arrive at the Columbia?
And then what !?
[Edit] I must ask - how do you account for money at
Tina Bar if the above route out applies?
I was there! Has nothing to do with Sluggo. Its not
open for discussion.
Good night.
Well, well Georger - if it is NOT open for discussion perhaps there are others who post here or loft here that would like to provide the low-down on that thread. Namely, WHY did it close in such a short period of time?