mrshutter45 21
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georger 244
QuoteGeorger,
Do you believe there was a currency debris field at Tena Bar? I've seen conflicting reports and just wonder what you think.
The Tena Bar money is such a mystery. If I knew it arrived there by natural means, rather than human transport, it limits the possible explanations for its presence. A currency shard debris field would make it more likely that it arrived by river rather than human action.
377
[post edited]
Palmer says that the money ....
Palmer does not mention ....
Palmer 'acknowledges' the issue of .....
Palmer never mentions a .....
MeyerLouie says in part:
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Quote
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'Sure about that Blevins? I'm not. I'm not speaking for others, I have been reading the DZ posts for the past year, including the ones directed at you. I don't need to ask others or speak for others here, I have evidence -- your posts and what other people have said to you or what others have said about you. I'm using evidence Blevins. Got it?...'
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Don't get to believing you are special in this opinion. And that's exactly what it is...your opinion. Besides, I just don't care. Are you kidding? I receive about 40-50 emails a week with comments, questions, some on Kenny, some on the Cooper case in general. About one in five are fairly nasty. After two years of this stuff, you get used to it. You think my posts are crap. Fine. Move on. I've heard it before. If you don't like them...use your mouse to scroll past them.
Regina, the author of the KC article, had been out of town for about two months and hadn't been checking her column anyway. She emailed me today and apologized. Told me there are so many obscene comments posted (over 300) that it will take her a day or two just to fix it all. She's already banned several IP's and is ready to do plenty more. I put her onto that idea as the easiest way to deal with this stuff. After reading all that crap on that article, well....your comments seem rather tame, Meyer. Hate to put it this way, but almost boring. If you want to get up on a pedestal and preach 'bad posting,'why don't you go over there and do it. Your efforts would be better served.
Watching 121212 concert. Very good. They say more than two billion people are either watching on TV, getting a vid feed, or listening to the audio.
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"Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..."
Marilyn Monroe
"Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..."
Marilyn Monroe
Robert99 50
The December 10th issue of Aviation Week has several articles on flying the Boeing 787. An article by Guy Norris contains the following quote, on page 54, relative to flap settings:
"Although originally indicative of actual flap angles, the detent positions on more recent generation Boeing aircraft are simply representative of pre-set positions for takeoff and landing."
I do NOT have a problem with that quote or naming flap positions like that. But I do wonder how the early Boeing 727 flap positions were identified. Did the 727s have a small number of detent positions (regardless of what they were called) or did the crew have to watch a flap indicator to lower the flaps to a desired setting?
Or to put it another way, when Cooper specified 20 degrees for the flap setting, and the flight crew didn't comment one way or the other about it, was he refering to an actual 20 degrees of flap deflection or to a specific detent position?
Would a modified 727 that was being used "off label", say in Southeast Asia, have its flap settings given in actual degrees or in a detent system? Unmodified 727s being used in airline service would probably have a detent system.
Does anyone have 727 flight manuals for the pre-100 series of 727s? It may be possible to determine where Cooper's 727 information originated.
Robert99
"Although originally indicative of actual flap angles, the detent positions on more recent generation Boeing aircraft are simply representative of pre-set positions for takeoff and landing."
I do NOT have a problem with that quote or naming flap positions like that. But I do wonder how the early Boeing 727 flap positions were identified. Did the 727s have a small number of detent positions (regardless of what they were called) or did the crew have to watch a flap indicator to lower the flaps to a desired setting?
Or to put it another way, when Cooper specified 20 degrees for the flap setting, and the flight crew didn't comment one way or the other about it, was he refering to an actual 20 degrees of flap deflection or to a specific detent position?
Would a modified 727 that was being used "off label", say in Southeast Asia, have its flap settings given in actual degrees or in a detent system? Unmodified 727s being used in airline service would probably have a detent system.
Does anyone have 727 flight manuals for the pre-100 series of 727s? It may be possible to determine where Cooper's 727 information originated.
Robert99
QuoteJo - I wish I had never posted about the Zona tattoo - It was not meant to be taken seriously. Besides...if I'm not mistaken, it was Clarence that had the tattoo, not John.
Never mind I see the other 99 has already posted this. I responded before I finished reading the thread.
I guess anything is possible in the penal system among frequent flyers, but I seriously doubt that you will be able to tie the Anglins to Duane.
No. Please do not be sorry. It was something I addressed yrs ago and NOT because of the mention of Zona (which by the way I associated with the wrong brother as it should have been Clarence).
It was something said in casual conversation by Duane and when you or someone else mentioned ZONA in relation to Alcatraz - I perked up. Yes, I got the information wrong, but that is not important. It was Zona and Alcatraz in the same sentence that got me looking at this.
Duane asked Ed how Zona was, but that does NOT mean that Zona was connected to Ed. Seeing the wanted picture of Clarence made me retreat Ed's photo. Since you posted copies of the WANTED Posters above - I see John's eye were BLUE which is even more of co-incidence. I see the resemblance perhaps because I am not depending on camera angles. I am going from real life - face to face contact.
John and Clarence were only one yr apart per the WANTED POSTERS. Since Clarence did NOT have the tattoos - it was comforting....and I still think Ed and John have a strong resemblance - but it was the mention of ZONA that got my attention. That along with Duane asking Ed how Zona was.
Zona came up in another conversation with another man, but my mind will NOT let me remember that man's face. I would NOT even be able to ID a photo if it was put infront of me.
I had more than one contact with Ed and I had a picture therefore the memory of Ed is strong. The memory of the other person is only the conversation and things Duane told me, but the visual is not in my memory banks...the other person has NO face.
Still would be curious to know Who this Zona was in Clarence's life. Also would like to know if there is any connection between the Anglins and Zona. Would like to know who the Anglin ZONA was and something about her.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteQuoteIn 1978 Duane asked him how Zona was doing. I did not know at that time Duane had a daughter named Zona. It was not a common name in 1940's so I found few Zona's in my research.
Jo, As I am sure you noticed when you visited the Clarence Anglin page on Wikipedia, he had "Zona" tattooed on his left wrist and "Nita" tattooed on his upper right arm.
Maybe Georger can help you determine how Anglin was related to each of those women. But just remember that Anglin had been in jail for several years before he disappeared from Alcatraz.
Robert99
I do NOT go to Wikipedia - I depend on you guys here. I explained above my interest in this Zona and Alcatraz thing. What I have told here regarding this is ALL I know other than the
identification and explanation of the other person with whom the name Zona was mentioned.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Not sure who made this statement because it does NOT sound like Georger, but that is who it was credit to in your post Amazon
Quote below:
The only light Cooper could have seen if the flight was just West of Mt. St Helens was the brightest light in the area - A DAM East of Cougar. If Cooper hit the ground anywhere in that area - there was a large Beacon light he could follow in the dark.
That is if he dared walk at night!
Quote below:
QuoteI'm guessing Cooper may have gotten a general idea where he was on the way down, assuming he pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. (Lights from interstate 5 maybe, or he figured out which way was west on the way down and kept it in mind)
The only light Cooper could have seen if the flight was just West of Mt. St Helens was the brightest light in the area - A DAM East of Cougar. If Cooper hit the ground anywhere in that area - there was a large Beacon light he could follow in the dark.
That is if he dared walk at night!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteQuoteThe December 10th issue of Aviation Week has several articles on flying the Boeing 787. An article by Guy Norris contains the following quote, on page 54, relative to flap settings:
"Although originally indicative of actual flap angles, the detent positions on more recent generation Boeing aircraft are simply representative of pre-set positions for takeoff and landing."
I do NOT have a problem with that quote or naming flap positions like that. But I do wonder how the early Boeing 727 flap positions were identified. Did the 727s have a small number of detent positions (regardless of what they were called) or did the crew have to watch a flap indicator to lower the flaps to a desired setting?
Or to put it another way, when Cooper specified 20 degrees for the flap setting, and the flight crew didn't comment one way or the other about it, was he refering to an actual 20 degrees of flap deflection or to a specific detent position?
Would a modified 727 that was being used "off label", say in Southeast Asia, have its flap settings given in actual degrees or in a detent system? Unmodified 727s being used in airline service would probably have a detent system.
Does anyone have 727 flight manuals for the pre-100 series of 727s? It may be possible to determine where Cooper's 727 information originated.
Robert99
'Bumped'.
This is a very good question. Definitely deserves an answer.
'Bump away!' We know YOU ARE IN CHARGE HERE!
$ - in internet lingo, it just means to bring up post
count, or move a thread to the top (bump it to the
top) when you have nothing really ...
Quade, you have just been replaced by
RobertMBlevins.
All posters be aware!
QuoteThe December 10th issue of Aviation Week has several articles on flying the Boeing 787. An article by Guy Norris contains the following quote, on page 54, relative to flap settings:
"Although originally indicative of actual flap angles, the detent positions on more recent generation Boeing aircraft are simply representative of pre-set positions for takeoff and landing."
I do NOT have a problem with that quote or naming flap positions like that. But I do wonder how the early Boeing 727 flap positions were identified. Did the 727s have a small number of detent positions (regardless of what they were called) or did the crew have to watch a flap indicator to lower the flaps to a desired setting?
Or to put it another way, when Cooper specified 20 degrees for the flap setting, and the flight crew didn't comment one way or the other about it, was he refering to an actual 20 degrees of flap deflection or to a specific detent position?
Would a modified 727 that was being used "off label", say in Southeast Asia, have its flap settings given in actual degrees or in a detent system? Unmodified 727s being used in airline service would probably have a detent system.
Does anyone have 727 flight manuals for the pre-100 series of 727s? It may be possible to determine where Cooper's 727 information originated.
Robert99
Well, Robert99, I only have ONLY this to say about the flap settings. Duane's brother John Weber was involved in the development of the Boeing 727..
In the 40's Duane knew all of John's friends and had kept informed of what they were doing. In 1971 - Duane was aware of John's relationship with certain Boeing individuals...one lived in WA Puyallup area. Duane and John sounded just like on the phone (something I noted when I did get to speak to him in 1995). I called because Duane was dieing and I thought the family should know - Duane had not seen his brother since 1958....John supposedly according to Duane cheated him out of his inheritance from his Mother, but I never found if this was true or not. John was the administrator and there was a sister. 377 knows how to pull the probate out of California.
The family attended the Boeing 727 cermony. Remember I have asked if anyone had a list of those who attended and if it was open to the public. I don't remember the date. Duane was probably in prison and he was always jealous of his big brother who was 13 yrs older than he was.
I have personal written information from John which gave indications Duane and his wife had a friendly relationship. She was always picking him up from his favorite watering hole in CA and John complained about a wreck Duane had with is wife's car and his using "Mothers" car. I would have to pull the letter to find the yrs referenced. What I am trying to explain is that Duane had access to "things" thru association with the family.
A certain individual contacted the FBI in 1971 about a phone call he had received. The caller was asking the essential questions and the man inadvertently told him, thinking it was John. As it was reported he didn't know who the caller was and admitted to his having broke protocal.
Also remember Duane mentioned to me on the 1979 trip about his knowing someone who lived in Pullyallup, but we weren't going there. This same discussion included Duane talking about his brother and one of his Boeing associates purchasing some commercial property that was purchased during the wrong time and the lost it.
The man who came forward admitting to dropping protocal - when he took the call in 1972. I only recently found out who this man might have been. When I found out who the man was a few months ago I contacted his wife about the Boeing files she was going to dispose of, but someone had already asked for them - probably Cook or the FBI. I do not know what kind of Boeing files she had.
Was the Caller Duane or someone else? The information given was what enabled Cooper with the information he was seeking. VERY strange that for YRS and YRS I have told about Duane knowing an individual in the Pullyallup area who was a friend of Duane's brother. It was during this yr 2012, I learned the identity of this person only by accident.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
I just read the post I made and if there was a Grudge - then this might be what it was. I have never stopped investigating everything I can. The FBI stopped taking my calls yrs ago.
ALL I have had for yrs now is this THREAD. It is the ONLY voice I have. If There is anything the FBI has withheld - this case will NEVER EVER BE SOLVED.
I have told the story about the Boeings and the brothers, but now that there was more to go with it - and I was revisiting it in the whole picture - the GRUDGE suddent POPPED for me if indeed there was a GRUDGE.
Perhaps jealousy and wanting to get even with his brother. Duane definitly had access - but, until I put it in writing the way I did in the post above - EVEN I didn't see it. How could I expect the FBI to listen to the rambling of an OLD woman who is desperate to be heard before it is too late.
I mean REALLY heard! Otherwise Cooper's identity will never be known. Was he alone?
ALL I have had for yrs now is this THREAD. It is the ONLY voice I have. If There is anything the FBI has withheld - this case will NEVER EVER BE SOLVED.
I have told the story about the Boeings and the brothers, but now that there was more to go with it - and I was revisiting it in the whole picture - the GRUDGE suddent POPPED for me if indeed there was a GRUDGE.
Perhaps jealousy and wanting to get even with his brother. Duane definitly had access - but, until I put it in writing the way I did in the post above - EVEN I didn't see it. How could I expect the FBI to listen to the rambling of an OLD woman who is desperate to be heard before it is too late.
I mean REALLY heard! Otherwise Cooper's identity will never be known. Was he alone?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteThe December 10th issue of Aviation Week has several articles on flying the Boeing 787. An article by Guy Norris contains the following quote, on page 54, relative to flap settings:
"Although originally indicative of actual flap angles, the detent positions on more recent generation Boeing aircraft are simply representative of pre-set positions for takeoff and landing."
I do NOT have a problem with that quote or naming flap positions like that. But I do wonder how the early Boeing 727 flap positions were identified. Did the 727s have a small number of detent positions (regardless of what they were called) or did the crew have to watch a flap indicator to lower the flaps to a desired setting?
Or to put it another way, when Cooper specified 20 degrees for the flap setting, and the flight crew didn't comment one way or the other about it, was he refering to an actual 20 degrees of flap deflection or to a specific detent position?
Would a modified 727 that was being used "off label", say in Southeast Asia, have its flap settings given in actual degrees or in a detent system? Unmodified 727s being used in airline service would probably have a detent system.
Does anyone have 727 flight manuals for the pre-100 series of 727s? It may be possible to determine where Cooper's 727 information originated.
Robert99
Well, Robert99, I only have ONLY this to say about the flap settings.
The family attended the Boeing 727 cermony.
Jo, Your post does NOT say anything about the flap settings.
Also, you do not seem to understand that security at aircraft manufacturer's is very tight. No manufacturer will tolerate an employee trying to remove manuals, drawings, etc., from the company premises. People get fired on the spot for that and, if it is a classified military project, the FBI is going to be leading the investigation and prosecution.
The family attending the 727 ceremony doesn't mean anything.
I attended the roll-out of the C-141 a long, long time ago but I didn't have a single thing to do with that aircraft. I just happened to be on the premises on another project the day it was rolled out.
My main memory of the C-141 roll-out is that when we were getting on our flying machine to head home, Senator Barry Goldwater and his T-39 were given runway priority and were the first to take-off. Of course, he had to taxi right by us lesser mortals to get to the runway but we managed to sit tight for a few more minutes.
Robert99
georger 244
Well, Robert99, I only have ONLY this to say about the flap settings. Duane's brother John Weber was involved in the development of the Boeing 727..
He must have known my grandmother. She was also
involved in the development of the Boeing 727.
She gave birth to Earl, who gave birth to Peter, Paul,
& Mary, who were involved in the development of the
727.
Hell everybody was involved in the development of
the 727.
And Mary Travis looks like Cooper! Doncha think?
Robert99 50
Quote
Well, Robert99, I only have ONLY this to say about the flap settings. Duane's brother John Weber was involved in the development of the Boeing 727..
He must have known my grandmother. She was also
involved in the development of the Boeing 727.
She gave birth to Earl, who gave birth to Peter, Paul,
& Mary, who were involved in the development of the
727.
Hell everybody was involved in the development of
the 727.
And Mary Travis looks like Cooper! Doncha think?
I think I do see a resemblence. Perhaps 377 and Blevins with their facial recognization software can come up with a conclusive match.
.thumb.JPG.e3961c3b7e4427878bb877a252be4a17.JPG)
QuoteMeyerLouie says in part:
Quote
'Sure about that Blevins? I'm not. I'm not speaking for others, I have been reading the DZ posts for the past year, including the ones directed at you. I don't need to ask others or speak for others here, I have evidence -- your posts and what other people have said to you or what others have said about you. I'm using evidence Blevins. Got it?...'
Don't get to believing you are special in this opinion. And that's exactly what it is...your opinion. Besides, I just don't care. Are you kidding? I receive about 20-30 emails a week with comments, questions, some on Kenny, some with questions on the book, some on the Cooper case in general. About one in five are fairly nasty. I answer all of them, even the bad ones, and I'm always polite. After two years of this stuff, you get used to it. You think my posts are crap. Fine. Move on then. I've heard it before. If you don't like them...use your mouse to scroll past. If you want to get on the anti-RB bandwagon, no problem. But you'll have to get in line with the others. It's a seniority thing and many are ahead of you.
Watching 121212 concert. Very good. They say more than two billion people are either watching on TV, getting a vid feed, or listening to the audio.
Edit: Well, I could do without seeing Kanye West in a leather skirt....![[:/]](//www.dropzone.com/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png "[:/]")
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
__________________________________________________
Okay Blevins..... I think you are either taking too many stupid pills or someone beat you mercilessly with an idiot stick. I'm thinking it's gotta be both. MeyerLouie
__________________________________________________
Quote
Jo, Your post does NOT say anything about the flap settings.
Also, you do not seem to understand that security at aircraft manufacturer's is very tight. No manufacturer will tolerate an employee trying to remove manuals, drawings, etc., from the company premises. People get fired on the spot for that and, if it is a classified military project, the FBI is going to be leading the investigation and prosecution.
The family attending the 727 ceremony doesn't mean anything.
Robert99
I have NO IDEA what the phone conversation was - remember I was NOT with him in 1971...or when ever he called his brothers old friend.
This man even contacted the FBI because he had breached protocol, but thought the call had been cleared. I do NOT know what division or what he did but it was related to Boeings or he had been with Boeing...I do NOT know. I just know Duane talked about KNOWING a man in Pullyallup and then about a yr ago I found out about a man going to the FBI and his story fit with the story Duane told me and some things John told me.
This man was supposedly in a business venture with John at one time. I talked about this earlier - but NO ONE would help.
Before I didn't have a clue who the man was - now I have a name, but not the property records or whatever name they used to purchase properties with.
YOU are not interested in solving this case. You are ONLY here to divert anything I say and to keep the nose of the Federal Govenment wiped clean. Your interest is NOT solving this. You are here to divert and defuse anything that comes close revealing who Cooper was.
WHY?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteAlso, you do not seem to understand that security at aircraft manufacturer's is very tight. No manufacturer will tolerate an employee trying to remove manuals, drawings, etc., from the company premises. People get fired on the spot for that and, if it is a classified military project, the FBI is going to be leading the investigation and prosecution.
This man was NOT part of the Manufacturing. He was NO manual employee. I don't understand what he did...I just know a call was put thru he thought had been screened. It wasn't. The caller asked some specific question - this was before the skyjacking happened.
I DO not know what information was exchanged.
It SHOULD be PART of the FBI investigative files!
YOU are a CREEP! I don't CARE what you say. THIS DID HAPPEN and there is a clip somewhere if that hasn't been destroyed.
I will tell you this - some of those engineers had papers in their homes. Clearly John mentioned schematic drawing in the house. YOU forget WHO supplied the paint for the 727 and NONE of you do not seem to care WHO it was. It was the Weber Link to Boeing and why the brother worked with Boeing.
It is easy to link Duane's brother to the man who received the call.
If I lived in WA I would be in the county records searching. By the way many of the old archived records have never been put into the system. So you do a search and nothing comes up. Like the old old map I obtained of the Washougal area. Things clearly marked and owners of property - this map is all that is left (some of the back records are gone). Just like the old cemetaries - no one remembers they are even there until they go to build a highway and suddenly they bulldozing coffins and bone.
Old country cemetaries and slave cemetaries....it is like the people and our government do not care or even want to remember them. Some of the indian burial grounds are still being found...in Fl.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
If you author a Cooper book, two things will happen, Meyer. Nuts will come out of the woodwork, and some people won't like what you say.
You've had your opinion and I listened to it. Now unless there is anything else, perhaps we can get back to Cooper and out of the personal analysis room.
And I still don't like seeing Kanye West in a leather skirt.
Unless of course it was the NUT who wrote the book?
Maybe then the critics are the NORMAL people. Is
that a logical possibility?
"You've had your opinion and I listened to it. Now
unless there is anything else, perhaps we can get
back to Cooper"
Let's get back to Cooper by saying:
(a) "And I still don't like seeing Kanye West in a
leather skirt.
"
and (b) "Just because you fail once doesn't mean
you're gonna fail at everything..."
Marilyn Monroe "
Uh-Ha.
I think I see a pattern there. I get it!
Pure genius! And On Topic just as you said.
377 22
Jo wrote
Jo,
Nobody here is working on behalf of the govt to prevent Norjack from being solved. That really is paranoid thinking. It's just a chaotic blog here. It threatens nobody. We don't matter to the govt.
I know you disagree, but I think the FBI would LOVE to solve Norjack. It's their only unsolved skyjack.
Your speculative conclusions about Duanes familial connection to 727 secrets is a perfect example of your bias.
Not even the pilots, flight engineer or NWA operations had any info indicating that the 727 could be safely flown with the stair deployed. Yet you want us to believe that Duane knew this because some relative sold paint to Boeing???
Please Jo, reconsider your accusations that any forum participant is working for the govt to sabotage your investigation. You are way too smart to believe something that absurd.
377
QuoteYOU are not interested in solving this case. You are ONLY here to divert anything I say and to keep the nose of the Federal Govenment wiped clean. Your interest is NOT solving this. You are here to divert and defuse anything that comes close revealing who Cooper was.
Jo,
Nobody here is working on behalf of the govt to prevent Norjack from being solved. That really is paranoid thinking. It's just a chaotic blog here. It threatens nobody. We don't matter to the govt.
I know you disagree, but I think the FBI would LOVE to solve Norjack. It's their only unsolved skyjack.
Your speculative conclusions about Duanes familial connection to 727 secrets is a perfect example of your bias.
Not even the pilots, flight engineer or NWA operations had any info indicating that the 727 could be safely flown with the stair deployed. Yet you want us to believe that Duane knew this because some relative sold paint to Boeing???
Please Jo, reconsider your accusations that any forum participant is working for the govt to sabotage your investigation. You are way too smart to believe something that absurd.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Clarence Anglin and his brothers John and Alfred were born in Donalsonville, Georgia, and worked as farmers and laborers. Together they started to rob banks in Georgia and were arrested in 1956. John and Clarence were given 15-20 year sentences and were sent to Atlanta Penitentiary (where they first met Frank Morris and Allen West), Florida State Prison, and Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary. Clarence Anglin was known to have a tattoo of "Zona" on his left wrist and one of "Nita" on his right upper arm.[1]
[edit]Alcatraz
now, to close this out I have included all 3 convicts with past and present photo's along with Mr Ed
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