georger 244 #37051 January 3, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteSmokin99 says in part: ***'If you or BruceSmith or whoever else likes to call folks out of the blue and interview them calls him and he's the guy who posted, ask him if he ever got any followup on the shoe from FBI or Galen Cook..' I wouldn't take Cook's word that day is light and night is dark. I'll ask Rattie if he ever heard anything from the FBI. Or maybe Bruce should do it. You want Cook? Email him and ask him yourself. I only reference Cook with what he posts publicly, or when he does interviews, or posts evidence. Sure thing Blevins. I think I'll do that. No reason to get snarky. The reason I mentioned Cook is because Mr Rattie mentioned Cook. And you seemed real eager to contact the guy since you knew him. But I see from Georger's posts that Mr Rattie has been here and left. I'll have to search those posts. So you can disregard my post. You're absolutely right - Anything I want to ask anyone I can do myself. But I still think an interview with him or anyone else close to the actual events would make a good article so I'll let my suggestion to BruceSmith stand. Are you actually doubting my post! ? All you have to do is go back and READ THE THREAD. Dont overwhelm Rattie with all the sudden Blevins- inspired interest! If you are going to look into this also email or talk to Jerry Thomas. I will give you his private number if you want. I am sure he wouldnt mind in this case. ps: There is more to Rattie's story ... der Gemuchlichkeit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37052 January 3, 2013 Quote It has been suggested off-site that we try and get Rattie back here for further better discussion of his story ... let's see what develops. Some good people are on it, I think. Those are my feelings on the matter - Duane was NOT DB Cooper! There was guy in this area who also claimed to be on the search team when they found a shoe. His name was Phil S. (I figured he was pulling my leg). If he is still living he is about my age and probably confined in an alzhiemer ward. I was seeing evidence of this yrs ago, but he was a nice man with a wonderful wife and a beautful daughter. I expect the daughter is around 32 or 33 now. He was married to a woman much younger than himself. Perhaps Rattie will remember him.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #37053 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote It has been suggested off-site that we try and get Rattie back here for further better discussion of his story ... let's see what develops. Some good people are on it, I think. Those are my feelings on the matter - Duane was NOT DB Cooper! There was guy in this area who also claimed to be on the search team when they found a shoe. His name was Phil S. (I figured he was pulling my leg). If he is still living he is about my age and probably confined in an alzhiemer ward. I was seeing evidence of this yrs ago, but he was a nice man with a wonderful wife and a beautful daughter. I expect the daughter is around 32 or 33 now. He was married to a woman much younger than himself. Perhaps Rattie will remember him. That is part of what I mean by 'there is more to this story'. There were a number of people there ... Let these people dig if out if they really care. I am done feeding the Zombies and Trolls ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #37054 January 3, 2013 Quote Something I want clarification one is NOT Rattie's story but the story Snowmman found. I contacted my individual in WA - she is getting old, but she provided me not with answers, but questions for the thread. The NEWS article Snowmman posted: 1. What Town was the writer for what Newpaper indicating? 2. She had never heard this particular story - so what was it's source. 3. Who is Harold Babitzke and where did he live. The co-ordinates mean nothing to her nor to me. 4. What time of day was the siting? It was dark when Cooper hit the ground - RIGHT? 5. A map providing the point the the LOG TRUCK BRIDGE crossed over the water. The story was from Ariel, WA. It was a general AP report carried in many newspapers. It about the annual party and had random quotes from people that were there. Harold Babitzke appeared to be one of the party-goers or he was otherwise interviewed for the story. As the story says he lives 5 miles from town (Ariel). Lewis River Road is where he said he his daughter saw the man and a section of Lewis River road is where the coordinates lead to. The story does not say what time of the day the daughter saw the man. The only information that I know of is what is in the post. Nothing about time of day, cars, adult or child. If I'm not mistaken Snowmman made the comment about the top drift line being near to the area that Babitske lived in. Not totally sure what the top drift line meant - but I took it to mean that the coordinates correspond to the vicinity of where the top drift line was on the map. In other words, the FBI had search maps outlining potential areas of search based on where Cooper's parachute was likely to drift. The area in question above coincidentally seemed to correspond somewhat to the shoe finder's story. I think it was a first post which merely noted a relationship between two stories that might or might not be real and, might or might not mean anything if real. That's my take. Someone might tell me I'm completely wrong.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37055 January 3, 2013 Quote That is part of what I mean by 'there is more to this story'. There were a number of people there ... Let these people dig if out if they really care. I am done feeding the Zombies and Trolls ... I am pretty tired myself. I just want to go to Spokane and to Coure d alene - I want the FBI to reveal the secrets buried there. Don't think I will make it! Sorry this has been a REALLY really difficult wk for me. So many yrs and so little clues. I begged the FBI yrs ago about the area - but, NO one cared but me. I feel like NO one WANTS the truth - because it means TOO many people screwed up or there have been TOO many secrets....and NO one wants these secrets known. If WEBER was not Cooper - his path leads to Cooper and to even more secrets. One might wonder if Weber was actually in San Quentin the way records are kept today. Does the criminal system actual toss records after they are 60 yrs old? I guess they are just too old to archive - the mice, mold and fungus ate the evidence.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #37056 January 3, 2013 Quote Are you actually doubting my post! ? All you have to do is go back and READ THE THREAD. Dont overwhelm Rattie with all the sudden Blevins- inspired interest! If you are going to look into this also email or talk to Jerry Thomas. I will give you his private number if you want. I am sure he wouldnt mind in this case. ps: There is more to Rattie's story ... der Gemuchlichkeit. Georger, I'm confused. Where do you see that I'm doubting your post? I referenced your post where you mentioned that Mr. Rattie had been on the thread. Blevins didn't inspire my curiosity, the old posts did. I must have missed Mr. Rattie's posts, so I said I will search and read them. Not a big deal - just mild curiosity wondering what happened to the shoe. lol...btw....I did Read The Thread (pages 80 - 84 or so) before I posted the question asking about the outcome of the shoe but there were only a few posts on the subject of the shoe for several pages so I gave up. I think the conversation turned to Duane Weber's glasses and from there went to John Collins, the hotel clerk, then to Weber's psyche, then to military jumps, then to the money find. All in the space of 3-4 pages. As a matter of fact, I think I even saw one of your first posts on those pages - analyzing the money - four or so years ago. LOL...Search sucks cause you have to go into each individual post. Heaven forbid that people should get on one subject and see it through to its conclusion before jumping on something else. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37057 January 3, 2013 That address is just not sufficient. Which way in Ariel - East or West? Was it closer to Yale? How many miles between Yale and where the siting supposedly occured? Frankly I think Cooper may have landed a little more to the EAST than the government thought. The plane door opened on the SW flank of Mt. St. Helens. With the winds blowing Cooper to the EAST. RIGHT? Depending on when he pulled - he definitely landed EAST of Ariel. The authorities just miss judge how far East of Ariel he was. They anchored their search with the projected DZ and ditched the wind factors. BIG mistake. Cooper was smart enough to head further EAST - less chance of his being spotted. Hell, he thought it was over anyway. He had never expected to survive the jump. But he was on the ground and running. As for the Penny Loafer - NOT many 6ft. men would wear anything smaller than a size 9. How about a survey here. All men 6ft tall - state their shoe size and width is an important factor. Who said Cooper was wearing Penny Loafers? Remember Tena called Cooper's shoes ankle boots. Chasing a size 8 penny loafer is a waste of time. (UNLESS the FBI files are nothing, but a bunch of LIES on paper)! So now we are going to create a fantasy about Tena not knowing a loafer from an ankle boot and Cooper wearing a size 8 and he is 6 ft tall???? It is useless to stand-up to a bunch of guys whose only goal is to create more and more fantasy and delusions about Cooper. The job was NOT that difficult and the escape was not that difficult. The middle of the night in the middle of a forest - Stupid, right? NO, actually it was brilliant - it worked - he actually got away with it! Or was it just Dumb Luck or a suicide upside down? You'll NEVER Know if YOU don't KNOW NOW!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37058 January 3, 2013 Quote LOL...Search sucks cause you have to go into each individual post. Heaven forbid that people should get on one subject and see it through to its conclusion before jumping on something else. WELL - that is the way it goes! I can make a post and it gets lost. Frankly the penny loafer thing disappeared because it was NOT logical. If anyone actually believed the Penny Loafer had anything to do with Cooper than the crime just did not happen and and there was no jumper and the crew was all on some kind of hallucinatory. The also rambled on and on for yrs about the hallucinations! Gimme a Break. This is the problem - NO ONE wants the crime solved. NO ONE can keep the FACTS straight! Hell I definitely have a hard time holding on to facts - I can only imagine what it must be for those who didn't know who Cooper was to begin with! Just called me disgusted, tired, old, sick and totally disallusioned by what the authorities have allowed to go on for 41 plus yrs.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #37059 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Harold Babitzke is no longer living. He would have been 95. His last known address was in Ariel, on the Lewis River Road. That's probably redundant information. The way things are around Ariel, you could drop in at the tavern and just ask. Everyone knows everyone there...and Dona Elliot knows everyone THEY know. No return message via Facebook from Mr Rattie as yet. If the shoe story is true, maybe it's one of the things the FBI is holding back...that they know the shoe size of the hijacker, or acquired some bit of evidence from it later. Who knows... Look. I don't care if Galen Cook wants to interview Bill Rattie. The problem I've had with Cook all along is threefold: 1) The Janet Fable, which he supported wholeheartedly in an article that went out on the national wire. 2) No witnesses other than family members, and evidence that is extremely thin. 3) His refusal to even check a simple alibi for Gossett the week of the hijacking by interviewing people Gossett served with at Fort Lewis. I'm sure he's a nice guy and everything. But I think you have to watch that he doesn't take something and try to twist it into Gossett somehow. I am more in favor of Bruce Smith doing any interview. I think it would be more neutral. Even I shouldn't do the interview. Like I said - I didn't mention Cook, Mr. rattie did. I didn't ask you to ask Cook anything, nor did I mention anything about Cook interviewing anyone. In Mr. Rattie's comment on the Topix page, HE said that he was trying to contact Galen Cook about the shoe find. Now....If I was asking Mr. Rattie about his experiences (before I knew about his posts here) this is a question I would have asked - Did Mr. rattie ever touch base with Cook and what was the outcome, if any? As for Bruce - he likes to write human interest type stories that touch on all different phases of the "DB Cooper experience" - not just about a particular candidate. That's why I said Mr. rattie's experiences (or anyone else that played a part in the actual event) would make a good BSmith article. You know - I've heard stories on here about how the search was so much bullshit. Well here's someone that, it seems, was actually out in the elements participating in the search - not sitting at the village bar in front of a heater rooting for DB Cooper. Just saying. I'd like to hear his side of it.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #37060 January 3, 2013 Jo, It's not just about the "penny loafer". The shoe could mean something or it could mean nothing. I would like to know the outcome, if anyone knows of what happened to the shoe, but I think it would also be interesting to find out about the weather, where were they taken to search, the terrain, what, if anything, did they use to search with, what was the mood of the guys searching - did they see Cooper in a good, bad, or neutral light. Were they afraid, excited? Were they told he was armed and dangerous? Even though the search was unsuccessful, did they feel that it was effective, as in organization, use of manpower, search strategies etc.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #37061 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Are you actually doubting my post! ? All you have to do is go back and READ THE THREAD. Dont overwhelm Rattie with all the sudden Blevins- inspired interest! If you are going to look into this also email or talk to Jerry Thomas. I will give you his private number if you want. I am sure he wouldnt mind in this case. ps: There is more to Rattie's story ... der Gemuchlichkeit. Georger, I'm confused. Where do you see that I'm doubting your post? I referenced your post where you mentioned that Mr. Rattie had been on the thread. Blevins didn't inspire my curiosity, the old posts did. I must have missed Mr. Rattie's posts, so I said I will search and read them. Not a big deal - just mild curiosity wondering what happened to the shoe. lol...btw....I did Read The Thread (pages 80 - 84 or so) before I posted the question asking about the outcome of the shoe but there were only a few posts on the subject of the shoe for several pages so I gave up. I think the conversation turned to Duane Weber's glasses and from there went to John Collins, the hotel clerk, then to Weber's psyche, then to military jumps, then to the money find. All in the space of 3-4 pages. As a matter of fact, I think I even saw one of your first posts on those pages - analyzing the money - four or so years ago. LOL...Search sucks cause you have to go into each individual post. Heaven forbid that people should get on one subject and see it through to its conclusion before jumping on something else. Thanks Smokin. Appreciate that. Yes search sucks but it does work, surprisingly well here. Have always wondered who set that up. Snow is probably laughing ... if he even reads here now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37062 January 3, 2013 QuoteJo, It's not just about the "penny loafer". The shoe could mean something or it could mean nothing. I would like to know the outcome, if anyone knows of what happened to the shoe, but I think it would also be interesting to find out about the weather, where were they taken to search, the terrain, what, if anything, did they use to search with, what was the mood of the guys searching - did they see Cooper in a good, bad, or neutral light. Were they afraid, excited? Were they told he was armed and dangerous? Even though the search was unsuccessful, did they feel that it was effective, as in organization, use of manpower, search strategies etc. Seems like there was an old article and clips and photos that centered around that particular aspect. I haven't kept everything, but I have some memory of a media clip or something like that before I went public prior to 2000. I expect this would have been after 1996 when I contacted the FBI - perhaps 2000 and before I went public. The crime was 24 yrs old when Duane died 25 yrs old before I found out who Dan Cooper was and contacted the FBI. What a DUMB BROAD am I?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sailshaw 0 #37063 January 3, 2013 BLEVINS You say: "So far, there has been no response from the FBI on the report, and we haven't asked about it. On February 10th, we are sending the unedited version to the Seattle Times newspaper, the Tacoma News Tribune, and KING-TV in Seattle. They will also receive the images presented to the FBI. They've all been alerted to this and two of them have responded positively. The other has not responded, but they will still receive the entire package." As I have said many times to you there are at least three things that rule KC out as a Cooper suspect. The FBI must also agree that KC is not a suspect just based upon the physical evidence: 1) KC was too short at 5 ft 8 in 2) KC had the wrong color eyes, blue and not brown 3) KC had the wrong color skin, white and not olive Those three items alone rule out KC and yet you keep beating your drum to support the conclusion of your book. It is just a bad book with bad conclusions. Why bother the FBI with your lengthly report that proves nothing? They have enough work to do with out having to poor through your report. It is just like your book, "A total waste of time" Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sailshaw 0 #37064 January 3, 2013 BLEVINS You say "Christiansen's eye color is listed on his WSDL as hazel, not blue. All of the witnesses spoke of Kenny being heavily tanned. This was probably a result of his habit of hanging out on the beaches in Japan during layovers. The report is accurate as to the known facts about him." KC eye color has been reported as blue too and is sometimes confused with hazel. His tan skin would not pass for olive which Cooper certainly had. To stretch his height to 6 ft from 5 ft 8 inch you will need to put him on the rack for quite a while. Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #37065 January 3, 2013 Quote If the shoe story is true, maybe it's one of the things the FBI is holding back...that they know the shoe size of the hijacker, or acquired some bit of evidence from it later. CinderCooper and the Glass Loafer??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EVickiW 0 #37066 January 3, 2013 +1 Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #37067 January 3, 2013 why would Kenny's brother make this statement: "There is something you should know, but I cannot tell you." why did he even bring it up? doesn't make sense...... Plus: Despite the publicity generated by Porteous's book and the 2011 television documentary, the FBI is standing by its position that Christiansen cannot be considered a prime suspect. They cite a poor match to eyewitness physical descriptions, a level of skydiving expertise above that predicted by their suspect profile, and an absence of direct incriminating evidence doesn't the FBI already have the information you sent??????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #37068 January 3, 2013 Quote +1 +9 Speaks for itself. An incomprehensible monstrosity. I didnt think this was humanly possible@! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #37069 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #37070 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card Im going to be honest here. I havent read some- thing like that in a good long time. Words fail me. None of these people need apply at our Seattle office, not even in sanitation services. I am per- sonally going to see to that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #37071 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card Im going to be honest here. I havent read some- thing like that in a good long time. Words fail me. None of these people need apply at our Seattle office, not even in sanitation services. I am per- sonally going to see to that! these people drop the FBI's IQ down to zero sometimes by thinking they are so in the dark? they become the FBI and take over the investigation..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37072 January 3, 2013 To the SEATTLE TIMES? Perhaps they will run an article about the eyes, the height and the fact the Wig story was dispelled LONG LONG ago. You ARE only pushing the MEDIA Meat WAGON. This type of thing will NOT help and only cause MORE ridicule of the innocent individuals you involved in YOUR story. It is NOT Kenny Christainsen's story - it is your story. You will be exposing a lot of innocent individuals to publicity - and my thinking is you intend to cause another media frenzie....like Marla had. You can bet the FBI is NOT going to let that happen a second time!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37073 January 3, 2013 QuoteThe area in question above coincidentally seemed to correspond somewhat to the shoe finder's story. I think it was a first post which merely noted a relationship between two stories that might or might not be real and, might or might not mean anything if real. That's my take. Someone might tell me I'm completely wrong. I did NOT get any IMPRESSION the shoe story and the siting story were connected in anyway! Just more trivia that had yet to be discussed! So if the Drift line of the chute is what the article referred to. GEORGER - you should know what that area would have been or perhaps Sluggo! Does anyone here KNOW the exact DRIFT line the FBI set in 1971? This is very very important. Yet, there were OTHER sitings and each yr they seemed to build and build - till it reach the point of saturation and FBI just stopped.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #37074 January 3, 2013 QuoteTo the SEATTLE TIMES: Perhaps they will run an article about the eyes, the height and the fact the Wig story was dispelled LONG LONG ago. You ARE only pushing the MEDIA Meat WAGON. This type of thing will NOT help and only cause MORE ridicule of the innocent individuals you involved in YOUR story. It is NOT Kenny Christainsen's story - it is your story. You will be exposing a lot of innocent individuals to publicity - and my thinking is you intend to cause another media frenzie....like Marla had. You can bet the FBI is NOT going to let that happen a second time! Jo, the only way the FBI can stop the media is if they place a gag order, they have not done this on the Cooper case...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #37075 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card Im going to be honest here. I haven't read some- thing like that in a good long time. Words fail me. None of these people need apply at our Seattle office, not even in sanitation services. I am per- sonally going to see to that! Well, when I was a girl! Shoe size we were told did count? Learned it to be true with I dated FBI agent (yes, I actually at one time in my life date one of the quys). I will say NO more but I am laughing - does Shoe Size count? Not hardly! Maybe sometimes! I'll NEVER TELL! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1478 1479 1480 1481 1482 1483 1484 1485 1486 1487 1488 Next Page 1483 of 2568 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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skyjack71 0 #37052 January 3, 2013 Quote It has been suggested off-site that we try and get Rattie back here for further better discussion of his story ... let's see what develops. Some good people are on it, I think. Those are my feelings on the matter - Duane was NOT DB Cooper! There was guy in this area who also claimed to be on the search team when they found a shoe. His name was Phil S. (I figured he was pulling my leg). If he is still living he is about my age and probably confined in an alzhiemer ward. I was seeing evidence of this yrs ago, but he was a nice man with a wonderful wife and a beautful daughter. I expect the daughter is around 32 or 33 now. He was married to a woman much younger than himself. Perhaps Rattie will remember him.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #37053 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote It has been suggested off-site that we try and get Rattie back here for further better discussion of his story ... let's see what develops. Some good people are on it, I think. Those are my feelings on the matter - Duane was NOT DB Cooper! There was guy in this area who also claimed to be on the search team when they found a shoe. His name was Phil S. (I figured he was pulling my leg). If he is still living he is about my age and probably confined in an alzhiemer ward. I was seeing evidence of this yrs ago, but he was a nice man with a wonderful wife and a beautful daughter. I expect the daughter is around 32 or 33 now. He was married to a woman much younger than himself. Perhaps Rattie will remember him. That is part of what I mean by 'there is more to this story'. There were a number of people there ... Let these people dig if out if they really care. I am done feeding the Zombies and Trolls ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #37054 January 3, 2013 Quote Something I want clarification one is NOT Rattie's story but the story Snowmman found. I contacted my individual in WA - she is getting old, but she provided me not with answers, but questions for the thread. The NEWS article Snowmman posted: 1. What Town was the writer for what Newpaper indicating? 2. She had never heard this particular story - so what was it's source. 3. Who is Harold Babitzke and where did he live. The co-ordinates mean nothing to her nor to me. 4. What time of day was the siting? It was dark when Cooper hit the ground - RIGHT? 5. A map providing the point the the LOG TRUCK BRIDGE crossed over the water. The story was from Ariel, WA. It was a general AP report carried in many newspapers. It about the annual party and had random quotes from people that were there. Harold Babitzke appeared to be one of the party-goers or he was otherwise interviewed for the story. As the story says he lives 5 miles from town (Ariel). Lewis River Road is where he said he his daughter saw the man and a section of Lewis River road is where the coordinates lead to. The story does not say what time of the day the daughter saw the man. The only information that I know of is what is in the post. Nothing about time of day, cars, adult or child. If I'm not mistaken Snowmman made the comment about the top drift line being near to the area that Babitske lived in. Not totally sure what the top drift line meant - but I took it to mean that the coordinates correspond to the vicinity of where the top drift line was on the map. In other words, the FBI had search maps outlining potential areas of search based on where Cooper's parachute was likely to drift. The area in question above coincidentally seemed to correspond somewhat to the shoe finder's story. I think it was a first post which merely noted a relationship between two stories that might or might not be real and, might or might not mean anything if real. That's my take. Someone might tell me I'm completely wrong.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37055 January 3, 2013 Quote That is part of what I mean by 'there is more to this story'. There were a number of people there ... Let these people dig if out if they really care. I am done feeding the Zombies and Trolls ... I am pretty tired myself. I just want to go to Spokane and to Coure d alene - I want the FBI to reveal the secrets buried there. Don't think I will make it! Sorry this has been a REALLY really difficult wk for me. So many yrs and so little clues. I begged the FBI yrs ago about the area - but, NO one cared but me. I feel like NO one WANTS the truth - because it means TOO many people screwed up or there have been TOO many secrets....and NO one wants these secrets known. If WEBER was not Cooper - his path leads to Cooper and to even more secrets. One might wonder if Weber was actually in San Quentin the way records are kept today. Does the criminal system actual toss records after they are 60 yrs old? I guess they are just too old to archive - the mice, mold and fungus ate the evidence.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #37056 January 3, 2013 Quote Are you actually doubting my post! ? All you have to do is go back and READ THE THREAD. Dont overwhelm Rattie with all the sudden Blevins- inspired interest! If you are going to look into this also email or talk to Jerry Thomas. I will give you his private number if you want. I am sure he wouldnt mind in this case. ps: There is more to Rattie's story ... der Gemuchlichkeit. Georger, I'm confused. Where do you see that I'm doubting your post? I referenced your post where you mentioned that Mr. Rattie had been on the thread. Blevins didn't inspire my curiosity, the old posts did. I must have missed Mr. Rattie's posts, so I said I will search and read them. Not a big deal - just mild curiosity wondering what happened to the shoe. lol...btw....I did Read The Thread (pages 80 - 84 or so) before I posted the question asking about the outcome of the shoe but there were only a few posts on the subject of the shoe for several pages so I gave up. I think the conversation turned to Duane Weber's glasses and from there went to John Collins, the hotel clerk, then to Weber's psyche, then to military jumps, then to the money find. All in the space of 3-4 pages. As a matter of fact, I think I even saw one of your first posts on those pages - analyzing the money - four or so years ago. LOL...Search sucks cause you have to go into each individual post. Heaven forbid that people should get on one subject and see it through to its conclusion before jumping on something else. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37057 January 3, 2013 That address is just not sufficient. Which way in Ariel - East or West? Was it closer to Yale? How many miles between Yale and where the siting supposedly occured? Frankly I think Cooper may have landed a little more to the EAST than the government thought. The plane door opened on the SW flank of Mt. St. Helens. With the winds blowing Cooper to the EAST. RIGHT? Depending on when he pulled - he definitely landed EAST of Ariel. The authorities just miss judge how far East of Ariel he was. They anchored their search with the projected DZ and ditched the wind factors. BIG mistake. Cooper was smart enough to head further EAST - less chance of his being spotted. Hell, he thought it was over anyway. He had never expected to survive the jump. But he was on the ground and running. As for the Penny Loafer - NOT many 6ft. men would wear anything smaller than a size 9. How about a survey here. All men 6ft tall - state their shoe size and width is an important factor. Who said Cooper was wearing Penny Loafers? Remember Tena called Cooper's shoes ankle boots. Chasing a size 8 penny loafer is a waste of time. (UNLESS the FBI files are nothing, but a bunch of LIES on paper)! So now we are going to create a fantasy about Tena not knowing a loafer from an ankle boot and Cooper wearing a size 8 and he is 6 ft tall???? It is useless to stand-up to a bunch of guys whose only goal is to create more and more fantasy and delusions about Cooper. The job was NOT that difficult and the escape was not that difficult. The middle of the night in the middle of a forest - Stupid, right? NO, actually it was brilliant - it worked - he actually got away with it! Or was it just Dumb Luck or a suicide upside down? You'll NEVER Know if YOU don't KNOW NOW!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37058 January 3, 2013 Quote LOL...Search sucks cause you have to go into each individual post. Heaven forbid that people should get on one subject and see it through to its conclusion before jumping on something else. WELL - that is the way it goes! I can make a post and it gets lost. Frankly the penny loafer thing disappeared because it was NOT logical. If anyone actually believed the Penny Loafer had anything to do with Cooper than the crime just did not happen and and there was no jumper and the crew was all on some kind of hallucinatory. The also rambled on and on for yrs about the hallucinations! Gimme a Break. This is the problem - NO ONE wants the crime solved. NO ONE can keep the FACTS straight! Hell I definitely have a hard time holding on to facts - I can only imagine what it must be for those who didn't know who Cooper was to begin with! Just called me disgusted, tired, old, sick and totally disallusioned by what the authorities have allowed to go on for 41 plus yrs.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #37059 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Harold Babitzke is no longer living. He would have been 95. His last known address was in Ariel, on the Lewis River Road. That's probably redundant information. The way things are around Ariel, you could drop in at the tavern and just ask. Everyone knows everyone there...and Dona Elliot knows everyone THEY know. No return message via Facebook from Mr Rattie as yet. If the shoe story is true, maybe it's one of the things the FBI is holding back...that they know the shoe size of the hijacker, or acquired some bit of evidence from it later. Who knows... Look. I don't care if Galen Cook wants to interview Bill Rattie. The problem I've had with Cook all along is threefold: 1) The Janet Fable, which he supported wholeheartedly in an article that went out on the national wire. 2) No witnesses other than family members, and evidence that is extremely thin. 3) His refusal to even check a simple alibi for Gossett the week of the hijacking by interviewing people Gossett served with at Fort Lewis. I'm sure he's a nice guy and everything. But I think you have to watch that he doesn't take something and try to twist it into Gossett somehow. I am more in favor of Bruce Smith doing any interview. I think it would be more neutral. Even I shouldn't do the interview. Like I said - I didn't mention Cook, Mr. rattie did. I didn't ask you to ask Cook anything, nor did I mention anything about Cook interviewing anyone. In Mr. Rattie's comment on the Topix page, HE said that he was trying to contact Galen Cook about the shoe find. Now....If I was asking Mr. Rattie about his experiences (before I knew about his posts here) this is a question I would have asked - Did Mr. rattie ever touch base with Cook and what was the outcome, if any? As for Bruce - he likes to write human interest type stories that touch on all different phases of the "DB Cooper experience" - not just about a particular candidate. That's why I said Mr. rattie's experiences (or anyone else that played a part in the actual event) would make a good BSmith article. You know - I've heard stories on here about how the search was so much bullshit. Well here's someone that, it seems, was actually out in the elements participating in the search - not sitting at the village bar in front of a heater rooting for DB Cooper. Just saying. I'd like to hear his side of it.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #37060 January 3, 2013 Jo, It's not just about the "penny loafer". The shoe could mean something or it could mean nothing. I would like to know the outcome, if anyone knows of what happened to the shoe, but I think it would also be interesting to find out about the weather, where were they taken to search, the terrain, what, if anything, did they use to search with, what was the mood of the guys searching - did they see Cooper in a good, bad, or neutral light. Were they afraid, excited? Were they told he was armed and dangerous? Even though the search was unsuccessful, did they feel that it was effective, as in organization, use of manpower, search strategies etc.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #37061 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Are you actually doubting my post! ? All you have to do is go back and READ THE THREAD. Dont overwhelm Rattie with all the sudden Blevins- inspired interest! If you are going to look into this also email or talk to Jerry Thomas. I will give you his private number if you want. I am sure he wouldnt mind in this case. ps: There is more to Rattie's story ... der Gemuchlichkeit. Georger, I'm confused. Where do you see that I'm doubting your post? I referenced your post where you mentioned that Mr. Rattie had been on the thread. Blevins didn't inspire my curiosity, the old posts did. I must have missed Mr. Rattie's posts, so I said I will search and read them. Not a big deal - just mild curiosity wondering what happened to the shoe. lol...btw....I did Read The Thread (pages 80 - 84 or so) before I posted the question asking about the outcome of the shoe but there were only a few posts on the subject of the shoe for several pages so I gave up. I think the conversation turned to Duane Weber's glasses and from there went to John Collins, the hotel clerk, then to Weber's psyche, then to military jumps, then to the money find. All in the space of 3-4 pages. As a matter of fact, I think I even saw one of your first posts on those pages - analyzing the money - four or so years ago. LOL...Search sucks cause you have to go into each individual post. Heaven forbid that people should get on one subject and see it through to its conclusion before jumping on something else. Thanks Smokin. Appreciate that. Yes search sucks but it does work, surprisingly well here. Have always wondered who set that up. Snow is probably laughing ... if he even reads here now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37062 January 3, 2013 QuoteJo, It's not just about the "penny loafer". The shoe could mean something or it could mean nothing. I would like to know the outcome, if anyone knows of what happened to the shoe, but I think it would also be interesting to find out about the weather, where were they taken to search, the terrain, what, if anything, did they use to search with, what was the mood of the guys searching - did they see Cooper in a good, bad, or neutral light. Were they afraid, excited? Were they told he was armed and dangerous? Even though the search was unsuccessful, did they feel that it was effective, as in organization, use of manpower, search strategies etc. Seems like there was an old article and clips and photos that centered around that particular aspect. I haven't kept everything, but I have some memory of a media clip or something like that before I went public prior to 2000. I expect this would have been after 1996 when I contacted the FBI - perhaps 2000 and before I went public. The crime was 24 yrs old when Duane died 25 yrs old before I found out who Dan Cooper was and contacted the FBI. What a DUMB BROAD am I?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #37063 January 3, 2013 BLEVINS You say: "So far, there has been no response from the FBI on the report, and we haven't asked about it. On February 10th, we are sending the unedited version to the Seattle Times newspaper, the Tacoma News Tribune, and KING-TV in Seattle. They will also receive the images presented to the FBI. They've all been alerted to this and two of them have responded positively. The other has not responded, but they will still receive the entire package." As I have said many times to you there are at least three things that rule KC out as a Cooper suspect. The FBI must also agree that KC is not a suspect just based upon the physical evidence: 1) KC was too short at 5 ft 8 in 2) KC had the wrong color eyes, blue and not brown 3) KC had the wrong color skin, white and not olive Those three items alone rule out KC and yet you keep beating your drum to support the conclusion of your book. It is just a bad book with bad conclusions. Why bother the FBI with your lengthly report that proves nothing? They have enough work to do with out having to poor through your report. It is just like your book, "A total waste of time" Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #37064 January 3, 2013 BLEVINS You say "Christiansen's eye color is listed on his WSDL as hazel, not blue. All of the witnesses spoke of Kenny being heavily tanned. This was probably a result of his habit of hanging out on the beaches in Japan during layovers. The report is accurate as to the known facts about him." KC eye color has been reported as blue too and is sometimes confused with hazel. His tan skin would not pass for olive which Cooper certainly had. To stretch his height to 6 ft from 5 ft 8 inch you will need to put him on the rack for quite a while. Bob Sailshaw sailshaw@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37065 January 3, 2013 Quote If the shoe story is true, maybe it's one of the things the FBI is holding back...that they know the shoe size of the hijacker, or acquired some bit of evidence from it later. CinderCooper and the Glass Loafer??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVickiW 0 #37066 January 3, 2013 +1 Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #37067 January 3, 2013 why would Kenny's brother make this statement: "There is something you should know, but I cannot tell you." why did he even bring it up? doesn't make sense...... Plus: Despite the publicity generated by Porteous's book and the 2011 television documentary, the FBI is standing by its position that Christiansen cannot be considered a prime suspect. They cite a poor match to eyewitness physical descriptions, a level of skydiving expertise above that predicted by their suspect profile, and an absence of direct incriminating evidence doesn't the FBI already have the information you sent??????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #37068 January 3, 2013 Quote +1 +9 Speaks for itself. An incomprehensible monstrosity. I didnt think this was humanly possible@! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #37069 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #37070 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card Im going to be honest here. I havent read some- thing like that in a good long time. Words fail me. None of these people need apply at our Seattle office, not even in sanitation services. I am per- sonally going to see to that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #37071 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card Im going to be honest here. I havent read some- thing like that in a good long time. Words fail me. None of these people need apply at our Seattle office, not even in sanitation services. I am per- sonally going to see to that! these people drop the FBI's IQ down to zero sometimes by thinking they are so in the dark? they become the FBI and take over the investigation..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37072 January 3, 2013 To the SEATTLE TIMES? Perhaps they will run an article about the eyes, the height and the fact the Wig story was dispelled LONG LONG ago. You ARE only pushing the MEDIA Meat WAGON. This type of thing will NOT help and only cause MORE ridicule of the innocent individuals you involved in YOUR story. It is NOT Kenny Christainsen's story - it is your story. You will be exposing a lot of innocent individuals to publicity - and my thinking is you intend to cause another media frenzie....like Marla had. You can bet the FBI is NOT going to let that happen a second time!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37073 January 3, 2013 QuoteThe area in question above coincidentally seemed to correspond somewhat to the shoe finder's story. I think it was a first post which merely noted a relationship between two stories that might or might not be real and, might or might not mean anything if real. That's my take. Someone might tell me I'm completely wrong. I did NOT get any IMPRESSION the shoe story and the siting story were connected in anyway! Just more trivia that had yet to be discussed! So if the Drift line of the chute is what the article referred to. GEORGER - you should know what that area would have been or perhaps Sluggo! Does anyone here KNOW the exact DRIFT line the FBI set in 1971? This is very very important. Yet, there were OTHER sitings and each yr they seemed to build and build - till it reach the point of saturation and FBI just stopped.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #37074 January 3, 2013 QuoteTo the SEATTLE TIMES: Perhaps they will run an article about the eyes, the height and the fact the Wig story was dispelled LONG LONG ago. You ARE only pushing the MEDIA Meat WAGON. This type of thing will NOT help and only cause MORE ridicule of the innocent individuals you involved in YOUR story. It is NOT Kenny Christainsen's story - it is your story. You will be exposing a lot of innocent individuals to publicity - and my thinking is you intend to cause another media frenzie....like Marla had. You can bet the FBI is NOT going to let that happen a second time! Jo, the only way the FBI can stop the media is if they place a gag order, they have not done this on the Cooper case...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #37075 January 3, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote +1 +9 you would think they would have found his Toupee along side the place Card Im going to be honest here. I haven't read some- thing like that in a good long time. Words fail me. None of these people need apply at our Seattle office, not even in sanitation services. I am per- sonally going to see to that! Well, when I was a girl! Shoe size we were told did count? Learned it to be true with I dated FBI agent (yes, I actually at one time in my life date one of the quys). I will say NO more but I am laughing - does Shoe Size count? Not hardly! Maybe sometimes! I'll NEVER TELL! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
