DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

where did you get your Journalism degree at to gain such "5 Star" attention?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Luv the group attack sessions no wonder so many people run away

Yea, even JO will stay out of that, but maybe there is a reason some of this is going on.
Usually Georger has a reason behind what he does. Perhaps others should think about what he is doing right NOW



Ever NOTICED that is is usually the quietest just before the sun Rises? The frogs croak in the evening. Do you hear the birds in the evenings? Nite Owls and those of the dark.

Hidden within Georger's SHAM WOW you might find a message or two.

Had a busy day so this is the only post I will make and hope this thread survives Blevins. He cannot seem to grasp that KC is not Cooper and that he is chasing bunnies only he can see in the desert. I am bored!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Smokin: I don't recall Farf saying that, and if he did he should have gotten to the point and named the book. One guy accused us of shill reviews on Blast, and I blew that off because I knew it wasn't true. (I did read the reviews on Blast) If a review is posted by someone under THEIR Amazon account, I can't 'remove it'. That book has been on Amazon in one form or another since 2006 and until Farf brought it up, I never noticed that someone used Gayla's name to post up a five-star review on it. Done by a former AB person, no less, who was with us only a short time. As it turned out, he only volunteered his time because he wanted me to publish his book. It was AWFUL. When I refused, he quit. The review has been reported to Amazon. And I AM thankful to Farf for bringing it to my attention. I think that's all I need to say on that.

Funny no one here complained when their Dropzone usernames were being stolen for filthy comments on Regina's article... I had to point that out.

I don't think that your shill has anything at all to do with the Regina site. Apples and oranges, hun. The Regina site is not the first time that has been done. Satirical posting was done once before on another site - I think right after you started posting here. At least I don't think it was "Regina's site". Could have been - though - I went once or twice and looked and don't think I ever went back. It actually started out as humorous - apparently it went beyond that 0 I'll have to take your word for it.
Regardless - it's obviously troll activity and not worth the time or effort to respond. It's been my experience that if you ignore people like that they eventually go away.

As for the shill reviews on Amazon or wherever - I believe Farf included the info in his attachments to a post about the subject of shill reviews of AB books - so that attachment would have revealed the book. Maybe I'm mistaken and it was about someone else's publishing staff doing shill reviews, but I don't think so.

I will be more than happy to look it up if you want. Oh what the hell...if you insist....

See attachment 2 - http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4062492#4062492

This one is Grace Hobson and Geoff Nelder - several attachments - could just be a mutual admiration society....hmmmm
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4129292#4129292

I think there might be more but I got tired...More than enough, if you are even a tad bit cynical, to show that you someone at AB might be into creative marketing
This post I just added cause you made such a big deal about Mr Shutter not being able to have an opinion about something he didn't read.....

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4044864#4044864

This was your response:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4045026#4045026

I particularly liked the part that said "I considered it a public service to steer people away from it, whether I actually read the thing or not. Why the hell would I bother reading the thing? They got the biggest fact of all dead wrong.
They named the wrong guy.
I stand by the review completely. I didn't HAVE to read it to review it. I already knew it was garbage."

hmmmmmm...

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

for someone who never pays attention to reviews seems to have a problem with Brent Butler?

http://adventurebooks.newsvine.mobi/_news/2012/07/19/12826090-worst-amazon-reviewer-ever-brent-butler-vine-voice-and-top-1000-poster-is-good-candidate

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Farflung 0]

No one could apparently see this coming. None of the Columbia River dredging experts and assorted BS artists or apologists who will run silent and stay shallow.

Can you believe I found collusion, conspiracy and douche baggery here? Yes!

It turns out that Hobson is a Shill and a shilled author too! I know! I’m just as nonplussed as all the fulltime bull shitters and ethicless meat bags.

Here’s the dirt. Hobson is an author who writes vanity books too. The editor of ‘Into the Blast’, Geoff Nelder has written some penetrating reviews of her “books” which seem to include what most men would never read. OK then.

Apparently in a reciprocal agreement of fabulous FIVE STAR! Reviews, Hobson and Nelder have managed to supply a total of seven (7) of the, gosh I thought they were legit, reviews for each other’s books on Amazon. What tools.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

Luv the group attack sessions no wonder so many people run away

Yeah it seems like that doesn't it - Unfortunately - he responded to about 4 different people in one post - I think everyone responded back. Like I said I'm not attacking him - just his data.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Quote

My response to that is this: They say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Or without even checking it out first. This is why Amazon allows you (on most books) to view the first twenty pages or so.

That would be like me saying Catch-22 is a stupid book because I think the title is stupid. And if someone asked me if I actually read it...and I said NO. They would think I was just ignorant.

Look, I don't mind answering questions, but if some of you dislike AB so much, why do you keep bringing it into the thread? You realize that people often start checking us out just to see what the fuss is all about, right? Seriously. Every time you launch into this stuff, our sales go up over the next few days. I don't mind that, but I think it's unfair to people who want to discuss the Cooper case.

First of all I don't dislike you or AB and frankly have no feeling one way or the other as to your sales. It's immaterial. You however made an inaccurate post using inaccurate data posits and I proceeded to correct it for you by showing you the previous posts.

As for the response about you telling MrSHutter he couldn't have an opinion (or words to that effect) since he didn't read your attachments...
Really....Are you serious.....20 pages and judging a book by it's cover - Bull. You clearly said you didn't read the book. Period.

Read the original post and the original attachment. Then read your response to the original post. It's all here - I've even made it clickable for you.
http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4044864#4044864

This was your response:

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4045026#4045026

I particularly liked the part that said "I considered it a public service to steer people away from it, whether I actually read the thing or not. Why the hell would I bother reading the thing? They got the biggest fact of all dead wrong.
They named the wrong guy.
I stand by the review completely. I didn't HAVE to read it to review it. I already knew it was garbage."

Come on....What a load of hypocritical nonsense your response appears to be.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

My response to that is this: They say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Or without even checking it out first. This is why Amazon allows you (on most books) to view the first twenty pages or so.

That would be like me saying Catch-22 is a stupid book because I think the title is stupid. And if someone asked me if I actually read it...and I said NO. They would think I was just ignorant.

Look, I don't mind answering questions, but if some of you dislike AB so much, why do you keep bringing it into the thread? You realize that people often start checking us out just to see what the fuss is all about, right? Seriously. Every time you launch into this stuff, our sales go up over the next few days. I don't mind that, but I think it's unfair to people who want to discuss the Cooper case.

From Farf's last post, it looks like Geoff Nelder and Hobson have been reviewing each other's works. Well, I frown on that practice, but I think it's basically harmless. Sometimes people I know ask me to review their books. I usually say no.

To tell you the truth, I don't care much about this stuff unless Hobson was on the AB staff, and she's not. Probably someone Nelder met at a writers' convention in Britain. Excuse me, but big deal. In case you don't know, writers reviewing each others' work, even when they know each other, is a common practice. It's not done so much in newspaper and mag reviews, but on Amazon...quite a lot.

Actually the one I thought would be problematic was the one where Geoff Nelder reviewed Into the Blast and he's also listed as the editor.
But I figure if anyone is going to take someone that is listed as the editor of the book as a legit review, that is their problem.
I guess there's no laws against it - just seriously doesn't look very professional or credible. You might want tot rethink the practice. But it's your business - do what you want

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Yeah.

Well, when you make links to stuff, don't truncate them. They won't work.

It's late here. Early day tomorrow. If you fix it by then, I will take a look.

It's not truncated in the post on the previous page. It only truncated because I copied the post to the new page. Go back one page.

If you'd read the post before responding to it you would know that....

but here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4044864#4044864

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4045026#4045026

Like I said I particularly liked the part that said "I considered it a public service to steer people away from it, whether I actually read the thing or not. Why the hell would I bother reading the thing? They got the biggest fact of all dead wrong.
They named the wrong guy.
I stand by the review completely. I didn't HAVE to read it to review it. I already knew it was garbage."

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

This is HISTORY and TRIVIA and you guys act like you are in one of the chat rooms. The DZ has had requests to shut this thread down - BECAUSE of postings are being done. The postings are NOT productive in proving anyone person is Cooper and the thread has been and is being used for promotion purposes by Blevins and the publishing company.

What is happening here is NOT acceptable even to me and I am pretty liberable. Everyone wanted a thread so they could discuss D. B. Cooper, but now Blevins is using it as a advertisement tool. Note GRAY never came here to promote his book?

I don't care if Blevins talks all day long about his subject, but he should not mention the publishing company nor use the thread for promotion.

Do NOT be surprise if you find the thread LOCKED. QUADE gave fair warning with the FIRST post in this thread and what you GUYS are doing is what SHUT down and LOCKED the first D.B.Cooper thread.

GO READ THE FIRST POST of this thread and take a review of the old thread? History has a way of repeating itself. If it shuts down in a way BLEVINS wins because he got to use the thread for promotion without providing credits to the DZ or the participants. SAD

As it stands when there is REAL news to report about Cooper you will have to read it in the headlines! THERE will be no avenue for those who might know something - to present their information. Lots of people will NOT go to the FBI to tell about their great Uncle Tom leaving some suspicious things behind or claimed he was Cooper - but they might do research on Jumping and Cooper and that brings them to DZ.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins continues to make 377 look good by saying:

“To tell you the truth, I don't care much about this stuff unless Hobson was on the AB staff, and she's not. Probably someone Nelder met at a writers' convention in Britain. Excuse me, but big deal. In case you don't know, writers reviewing each others' work, even when they know each other, is a common practice.”

Then why did you lie about it?



You said she was a fan and her husband enjoyed reading your book while she used mental telepathy to write a review. You do know the definition of a Shill? That’s a person who says something that isn’t true like, how the Columbia River is dredged when they don’t have a degree in engineering, hydrology, mechanics or shucks, any baccalaureate education at all. You know a bitter poser.

You asked to have a name presented as a Shill instead of going through the machinations of the last Shill you denied. With the benefit of the doubt, I supplied you with a name and you did the predictable and deflected, denied and minimized what you said didn’t happen in the first place. Typical. Don’t worry, with each similar action, you appear to be MORE college educated, wily, and socially acceptable, because as YOU say (but no one else does) you’re an honest guy.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Keep it civil or it's all going to be trashed.

If you'd like to discuss this topic without my moderation, Yahoo.com makes "groups" all day long. Feel free to use them.

Chill Guys! Quade meant this when he stated it. He has gone over and above and been pretty liberal, but what is going on is over and above the limits. A little SELF MODERATION IS REQUIRED OR YOU WILL BE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER PLACE TO TALK ABOUT COOPER.

I will assure - THERE is NO PLACE like the DZ! In the DZ there are real jumpers and those fascinated by Cooper and this thread attracts the right kind of people. What has been going on lately I think is unacceptable for HISTORY and TRIVIA.

It was at my request that the D.B.Cooper thread be in HISTORY and TRIVIA and what has been going on is an abuse of that priviledge!

If they opened a thread up in one of the other chat categories at DZ - I can quarantee you will NOT be happy campers.

WE need to stop the bantering now before someone silences the thread entirely.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

BECAUSE of the kind of posting that are being done. The posting are NOT productive in proving anyone person is Cooper and the thread has been and is being used for promotion purposes by Blevins and the publishing company.

.

[georger 244]

It's not me doing the promoting here. That would be you and Farf continually bringing up stuff about Adventure Books of Seattle. I was discussing the FBI report, Amboy chute, whatever. You want to drive DZ traffic to us, fine. But I don't think anyone except you cares about a couple of Amazon reviews. .

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Gray is coming to the 2013 Symposium in Tacoma, WA. I guess that means he still cares.

Porteous is selling his business and retiring to Northern California. When he arrives, I'm driving down to his place for a few days to meet him and his lady. Never actually met the guy in person.

I have communicated with BOTH of them and got different answers! Who is playing WHO?

Porteous is NOT going to CA per an email I received from him regarding an enquire I made of him. If you actually talk to him why don't you tell the thread WHAT I asked HIM? And what was his reply to me?

As for Gray - I haven't spoke to him in awhile. If theidentity of Cooper is known - there won't be a need for a symposium!

When one reduces themselves to OUT and OUT lies - that is bottom-feeding. (I like Georger's word for you). I do not expect you have spoke to either Porteous or Gray in sometime now. They would probably turn and walk the other way if they ran into you! I know I would!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

Smokin99 says this:

***'Actually the one I thought would be problematic was the one where Geoff Nelder reviewed Into the Blast and he's also listed as the editor...'

Wrong. Nelder has NOT reviewed Blast. I did check the reviews for both editions just now, Kindle and paperback.

That is a flat-out lie. And you need to go and look for yourself before you say that stuff.

You know what Blevins - I don't lie or make false claims, I attached the frickin post and you just didn't read it.
SO I will attach it again - and you need to read this one before calling me a liar.

Here's the post and it's attachment #2. Just like I posted on the previous page.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4062492#4062492

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

• Quote

[smokin99 0]

Quote

I did take exception to Smokin99's false claim that Geoff Nelder reviewed Into The Blast. That's ridiculous.

And actually, with all due respect - i take exception to your calling me a liar. I'm just posting what's been posted before. You sir should read before you post.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4062492#4062492 See attachment #2

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

[reply
You know what Blevins - I don't lie or make false claims, I attached the frickin post and you just didn't read it.
SO I will attach it again - and you need to read this one before calling me a liar.

Here's the post and it's attachment #2. Just like I posted on the previous page.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4062492#4062492

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Smokin99: I don't care about your link. I already checked the Kindle and paperback reviews for Blast at Amazon.

This is how many were done by Geoff Nelder: Z-E-R-O.

Links to both editions at Amazon are already posted above.

Then he must have removed the darn thing at some point. Good for him. But the fact stands that, according to the attachment on the post i linked to which is a SCREENSHOT of the review, He DID REVIEW THE BOOK.

Check the post I linked to. The attachment clearly looks like a review by Geoff Nelder for into the Blast Revised Version.
You might not care about my link but that's what this whole conversation was based on -
I don't lie and "you can't take the truth". I think that's a direct quote from Mr. Nicholson.
You think someone photo shopped this whole Amazon page. Looks legit to me. (With added pics and editing by Farf, of course) But the review itself looks legit.
Why not just ask him if he ever did a review and then removed it? Then you can apologize for calling me a liar.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins let the Thread continue without talk talk talk about your book. If you want to offer explorations about your subject or any subject - no one cares...but, it is wrong to let you promote a book. Almost every post you make is defending your book or promoting your book.

No one even wants to come here to discuss Cooper anymore because all we hear is YOUR BOOK! What do you think is going to happen to that book when the REAL Cooper is announce or do you think that is never ever going to happen? I would NOT bank on that!

Do You know how long certain files the federal government keeps can be obscured? Answer that question to keep your mind occupied!

DO one thing useful for a change. Think about how NO ONE knew who Cooper was? Think about why NO one missed Cooper? You are so LOST in your book - you have lost track of the REAL world.

You can't even keep the facts of the case straight. The thread helped you and what do we get in return? You can't even keep your own words straight!

HOW did Cooper pull this off and get away? Don't assume he died!
Assume he survived - HOW could one person do this and keep the secret and NO one ever know? How did he hide all the details and remove himself from the crime? You never explored any of this regarding Christiansen because if you did you would be making it up....You have NOT one piece of evidence and you never will have.

You can NOT use what you co-erced from his family. Every thing you did was with a purpose and that purpose was NOT to find out who Cooper was, but to promote into the minds of living persons a suggestion you wanted to play-out in their minds. You are guilty of ELDER abuse in my eyes. Each time you questioned someone you led them - it is evident from all of the things you have told this thread!

I know how suceptible older people are to the power of suggestion - I have seen it used by family members and by authorities and professionals. Even YOU admitted to doing some work along this line. You went to see those individual with a purpose and knew Porteous was already walking away.

You have offered nothing new because you have nothing new to offer. You never explored the possibilities. PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER WITH YOUR CANNED EXPRESSION! Everyone is so sick of hearing you repeat and repeat and repeat. DO you not have any thoughts other than the same old same old.

YOU have nothing - not one iota to offer this case! IF you REPEAT another line of that book to answer a question I will SCREAM so loud you will hear it in WA.

Do ONE thing ORIGINAL - otherwise you are just MR. REPEAT REPEAT! I asked you real nice earlier to back down before the thread closes down.

SEEMS like you are pushing to have the THREAD closed. ALL it takes is the right word from certain individuals - and the thread is CLOSED! WE are ALL so sick and TIRED of dealing with your CHILDISH & SELFISH behavior! GROW-UP!

Folks I have had it up to my eyeballs with this. It just take a few loose bolts and there will be NO Cooper Vehicle available in a forum that suits the purpose of people who are looking for actual exploration on this case.

I AM NOT BEING KIND, but I am TRIED of you and BORED with the repetition. Folks - I truely hope I have NOT bored you with the story about Duane as much as I am bored with Blevins constant promotion of his book.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

Shame on every person who has tried to deflect this subject which has likely come back to roost after NOT being dealt with appropriately earlier. I’m sure the college educated crowd knows what is said about ‘appeasers’.

Nelder (or his imposter for the apologists) submitted a FIVE star review which was removed only AFTER a disinterested citizen (Brent Butler) pointed out this unethical act. Now let the revisionists move in and explain how the moon landing was faked, the Holocaust never happened and whatever is attached to some Aunt Sally, some sweet Nancy wants to toss through the door.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Smokin99: I don't care about your link. I already checked the Kindle and paperback reviews for Blast at Amazon.

This is how many were done by Geoff Nelder: Z-E-R-O.

Links to both editions at Amazon are already posted above.

Then he must have removed the darn thing at some point. Good for him. But the fact stands that, according to the attachment on the post i linked to which is a SCREENSHOT of the review, He DID REVIEW THE BOOK.

Check the post I linked to. The attachment clearly looks like a review by Geoff Nelder for into the Blast Revised Version.
You might not care about my link but that's what this whole conversation was based on -
I don't lie and "you can't take the truth". I think that's a direct quote from Mr. Nicholson.

Fine. You didn't lie. You made a mistake. Mine are many, and some are legend. Did you go to Amazon and check for yourself?

Blevins I'm gonna say this one time and then I'm through with you. I attached a screenshot of a review that Geoff Nelder did for into the Blast - revised version in 2011. Now it is very possible that he has removed that review, but the attachment is a screenshot of a review that he did. I didn't go to Amazon because that wasn't the conversation. The conversation was that you said you had never been told that folks at AB were reviewing their own books and I said that you were told. I proved it by looking up the old posts. That's it.

Now apparently, and maybe because of those old posts, Geoff Nelder removed his review. Great - I don't blame him - it looks unprofessional to review a book that you edited.
Be that as it may - I think the screenshot showing a review by Geoff Nelder is legit. Unless you can prove otherwise, that the screenshot is not legit, then I stand by my post and regardless, I stand by the fact that I did not lie nor make a mistake.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

It’s such a non issue that it is fought hammer and tong.

Consciousness of shame and self loathing, manifesting in false outrage, which will fade into something trivial or inconsequential once it is obvious, to the most casual of observer that there is no escape.

[skyjack71 0]

Skyjack71 started in this thread after it was opened by Quade for us to discuss Cooper in Nov of 2006. I have 5210 posts.
( just over 6 yrs).

Blevins came to the thread in Aug
2010 and now has 2724 posts.
(less that 2 1/2 yrs).

Blevins came here to PROMOTE.

Jo came here to EXPLORE and guys we did a LOT of that...now we are bogged down and there is NO escape from Commercials.

TV - Not many good programs
Commercials - to loud
Books - getting too hard to read
Travel - takes lots of money
Movies - too loud
Bingo - ughh!
Cards - hate them
Chatrooms - boring
Garden club - too uppity
Gym - wish I could
Walk - wish I could
Clean house - nahh
Cook - only if I have too
Adult classes - At night /too far
Write a bk - nahhh
Excuses - Wish I didn't them

Research - THERE is some more of that I could do - but need to get to WA and travel and go to archives - need more than I have. What I have is too little too late. After 65 yrs some records just go POOF! Mold, mildew, papermites, water, heat and all of the same things that caused the money to deteriorate.
I have to depend on other people to know what I am looking for - I can't project a memory into their minds or a memory trigger.

The 2010 trip triggered things I thought I would not recall, but I was driving and going at my own pace and I was alone as I chose to be and it worked. Just did not have the money to stay longer. I had not been able to project what my mind saw only one time in my life into the minds of other.
I was the one who lived my life with a man who claimed he was Dan Cooper - no one else did. I was the one who needed to see the memories again and I did.

I have one last expensive thing I have to do and be well enough to do it. I have to go back to WA even if it is just to scatter Duane's remains in the places he took me and remember one more time the things he told me...and then I will say GOODBYE!

P.S.
I do want to make it to Spokane and that high road all the way to Coure D Alene. I want to go back and see the things he told me about - I need to finish this.

I WISH for somethings I know I WILL never have and to do what I know I can never do - but, I can still WISH! AND I never GIVE UP HOPE and I realize I am on AUTOMATIC IGNORE by all who are here.

I just say what I have to say while I still can.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

YOU told smokin99 that was a “flat-out-lie”, YOU RobertMBlevins! Of all people (and I use that word loosely) dare to call her a liar! Yet name calling isn’t allowed on this thread. My ass.

YOU better make that RIGHT, no not RIGHT; because you can’t un-ring that bell, but make it better than you have managed to craft thus far as some detached Troglodyte.

Smokin99 had NEVER given anyone grief, nor has she lied, nor has she stirred the shit with some brain dead drive by comment with zero value. APOLOGIZE NOW.

I notice how you and your ilk are awfully sensitive when you feel the slightest violation, you owe smokin99 that at an immediate minimum.

Full disclosure: I really like and respect her opinion and a few other things, most of which I’m sure she can live without. She has been a RARE example of continuous patience and class. Something I don’t do so good at, but don’t try to deflect or project. Well, they say people get the government they deserve, it’s obvious by the conduct on here, that forums get the members they deserve too.