DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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item attached for your perusal...

1. Jo, Is this the commutation you are talking about?
Grabbed it from a previous post.

2. A Gossett snippet from the past. What does it all mean? ...absolutely nothing... Just interesting is all.

Thank YOU!

Note the commutation is for John Collins and Weber was a 5 plus time felon. They do NOT provide Commutations for someone who has already spent time in other prisons. The Commutation was supposed to be for Duane L. Weber. He was upset about that!

The exwife discussed this with me....but, she declined to say anymore that he was angry as hell about it.. I went into all of this before and there is NO need to repeat it all for Robtert99. It was supposed to mean a new life for them....the commutation was supposed to read Duane L. Weber. So the FBI wants a GRUDE - Duane did have a grudge about that. Whatever he did in Jefferson was never revealed.

The wife said she would go to see him and be told he was in solitary. That happened several times - if a guy is in solitare several times in 16 months - it is doubtful he would be granted a Commutation. WHERE was he really.

Remember that the FBI would NOT provide me with anything so I could prove I was the wife of Duane and his AKA - so I was refused access to Jefferson papers. Only after the required time for the files to be destroyed
did Carr stated I could find them online...by then the inside file had been deleted. No info available.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

"Note the commutation is for John Collins and Weber was a 5 plus time felon. They do NOT provide Commutations for someone who has already spent time in other prisons"

who told you this?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

I am wondering about Gossett's military service - if the inscription is correct. If he was in WW2, then he would have had to join when he was 15. I think he was born in July, 1930.
Unless they include a certain number of years after the surrender as WW2 era?? Anyone know?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

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I am wondering about Gossett's military service - if the inscription is correct. If he was in WW2, then he would have had to join when he was 15. I think he was born in July, 1930.
Unless they include a certain number of years after the surrender as WW2 era?? Anyone know?

I don't know much about him, look it up on SSDI possibly?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

COMMUTATION is the reduction of a sentence to a lesser sentence. The most common application is a commutation to credit an inmate's sentence with time spent on reprieve if he completes the reprieve satisfactorily. Rarely used but essential to the State are two forms of executive clemency: commutation of an unjust sentence and commutation of a death sentence.

there are several options for this term as seen above, I have never heard of being in another prison excludes Commutation
this is similar to Parole which every prisoner is entitled to, unless directed by the courts.

you do realize if someone receives a 4 year sentence, they will not serve 4 years unless they cause trouble in the system, gain time up to 10 days a month can reduce your sentence.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MarkBennett 5]

I was off work today and decided to head down to the Ariel Store and Tavern to check out the DB Cooper stuff.

Even though I arrived within the posted hours, the store was closed. It was a three hour drive there, so I guess I should have checked first. However, I can find no phone number or email address. Does anyone know of one?

[skyjack71 0]

1968 - repeat offender did not get Commutations!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

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1968 - repeat offender did not get Commutations!

unless you have proof other than saying it, I don't see how the State would allow this let alone sign documents to it, but once again he is in prison as Collins and not Weber.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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I was off work today and decided to head down to the Ariel Store and Tavern to check out the DB Cooper stuff.

Even though I arrived within the posted hours, the store was closed. It was a three hour drive there, so I guess I should have checked first. However, I can find no phone number or email address. Does anyone know of one?

I googled it and got 306-225-7126. Don't know if that is still good or not - It's supposedly the business number. Didn't see email on first pass but if she's got one I'm sure it's out there on the world wide web somewhere. It's a pretty popular spot and she seems to enjoy it.

She might be like a little store near my house. They have a sign that says Open when can and closed when can't.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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Quote

Quote

I am wondering about Gossett's military service - if the inscription is correct. If he was in WW2, then he would have had to join when he was 15. I think he was born in July, 1930.
Unless they include a certain number of years after the surrender as WW2 era?? Anyone know?

I don't know much about him, look it up on SSDI possibly?

excerpt from here http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=75261.0;wap2
.... he was born William Pratt Gossett in San Diego in 1930, the son of a Navy commander later stationed at Pearl Harbor. At the age of 11, Bill Gossett witnessed Japanese bombers attacking the base. In 1946 at age 16 Gossett joined the Army Air Force, then switched branches in 1954 to become a U.S. Marine. After 10 years in the Corps, he jumped to the U.S. Army, serving one tour in Korea and two tours in Vietnam, where he earned a Purple Heart for wounds and several awards for valor. Throughout his military career, he attendeddozens of elite Armed Services schools where he learned military law, fluent French — he did a tour at the U.S. embassy in France — and became a skilled survivalist and combat parachutist with hundreds of high-altitude and night jumps. He finished his career as an ROTC instructor and retired from the Army at Ft. Lewis, Wash., in 1973, less than two years after the notorious skyjacking.

Gossett returned to Utah, where he had inaugurated the ROTC program at Weber State College, and became a private detective specializing in money fraud, cults and missing persons. His biggest moment came when he assisted the FBI in rescuing a woman from the Bhagwan Rajneesh’s compound in Antelope, Ore. Among the documents Galen Cook found among Gossett’s personal belongings at the Depoe Bay home of C.J. Winter was a letter of commendation from the FBI, which still has an investigator assigned to the D.B. Cooper case. Gossett also worked for the public defender’s office in Salt Lake City, where he was well-known and respected by police and court officials including the police chief of Ogden, Utah, who said Gossett “could eat bullets and call it a meal.”
In another amazing twist to Gossett’s life, he officially changed his name to “Wolfgang” and became a priest in the Old Catholic Church, SLC Diocese, in 1988 — a move that answered, according to family members, a spiritual calling that he’d always heard. Finally, in 1994, Gossett moved to Newport where he worked for attorney Dan Poling, a Depoe Bay resident who died several years ago. Gossett retired to Depoe Bay and became known as a man about town who had many friends, often won on the gaming machines at Gracie’s Sea Hag and spoke-out at City Council meetings.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

WHatever else , you can't say that the Cooper candidates don't have some interesting life stories to tell.
Is there a known Cooper suspect out there that was just a regular ol guy?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

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Okay, seriously now. Forget about KC for a moment. But consider this: Does ANYTHING you have heard about the Cooper hijacking lead you to believe a heavily-indoctrinated military guy who was active duty did it?

We forgot about KC a long time ago - but, that was the best post from you in a LONG time.

Recieve a PM from someone reminding me of a posting made on a long forgotten site. A post made by someone who knew Duane.

Part of the story was accurate except for the new car part and the persons theory about where Weber could have hiddend the money. I did investgate the posting long ago and it was my feeling the post was NOT made by a kid who did yard. Again I felt the same thing now as I did in 2006 when I learned of the posting.

The individual who sent me a pm on this has been reading the thread - and thought I might be interested in it or maybe that I had never seen it.

If he wants to put in on this thread I have no objection. Perhaps you guys can figure out who made the post.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

smoking Raleighs like a chimney and ordering bourbon. LOL. This guy does NOT fit the profile of what actually happened aboard Flight 305, which would have been pulled off in a military fashion had Gossett been the guy.

It was the only thing Gossett knew in his life up to that point, The Military Way, but NOTHING that happened on 305 fits that profile. Sounds more like a guy who had experience but hadn't jumped in a while. Someone who smoked Raleighs. Someone who liked bourbon enough to collect the bottles. Someone who was broke, desperate, and had a friend who talked him into the Biggest Gig of his Life.

Okay, seriously now. Forget about KC for a moment. But consider this: Does ANYTHING you have heard about the Cooper hijacking lead you to believe a heavily-indoctrinated military guy who was active duty did it?

"I'm sixty years old and I damn near died. And I'm worried about how many lives I can save before I DO die..."

Former President Bill Clinton to the New Yorker Magazine

[smokin99 0]

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And when he did the hijacking, he bought a $20 ticket from Portland to Seattle and showed up in a cheap suit, dress shoes, and a little paper bag, smoking Raleighs like a chimney and ordering bourbon. LOL. This guy does NOT fit the profile of what actually happened aboard Flight 305, which would have been pulled off in a military fashion had Gossett been the guy.

It was the only thing Gossett knew in his life up to that point, The Military Way, but NOTHING that happened on 305 fits that profile. Sounds more like a guy who had experience but hadn't jumped in a while. Someone who smoked Raleighs. Someone who liked bourbon enough to collect the bottles. Someone who was broke, desperate, and had a friend who talked him into the Biggest Gig of his Life.

Okay, seriously now. Forget about KC for a moment. But consider this: Does ANYTHING you have heard about the Cooper hijacking lead you to believe a heavily-indoctrinated military guy who was active duty did it?

LOL - Seriously now...I'm just putting the information out there. Getting a discussion started cause this thread is so much caca now. LOL...But I accept apologies - even the backhanded ones. It's a southern thing - we generally just accept and bless his heart - he probably just didn't know any better. Meanwhile, the sword is sharpened for the next duel. Life on the lower forty.

According to one SAC - KC didn't fit the profile either --- but let's forget ken -- you said you were tired of talking about KC and I agree. The ground's been covered. Now I'm posting about someone else.

Another excerpt paraphrased from same story......
What many people didn’t know is that Gossett had a dark side, including four failed marriages, five children , making 15,000 and money troubles from gambling. He was an ROTC instructor making $15,000 per year, and newly separated from his wife. Galen Cook said that Gossett chose the date for the heist because he had a week off from his duties.
According to Clyde Lewis he was a smoker - YUP, Raleighs.

Fancy this if you will.....

Richard McCoy was born December 7, 1942, in the town of Kinston, North Carolina, and grew up in nearby Cove City. In 1962 McCoy moved to Provo, Utah, and enrolled at Brigham Young University (BYU) before dropping out to serve a two-year tour of duty in the Army. He served in Vietnam as a demolition expert and pilot and was awarded the Purple Heart in 1964.

In 1965 McCoy returned to BYU, where he met Karen Burns. They married in August 1965 in Raleigh. By 1971 they had two children, Chanti and Richard.

McCoy served another term in the Army on the condition he go to Vietnam, where he was awarded both the Army Commendation Medal and Distinguished Flying Cross. Upon returning to Utah, he served as a warrant officer in the Utah National Guard and was an avid skydiver.
McCoy taught Mormon Sunday school and studied law enforcement at BYU. His purported dream was to become an FBI or CIA agent.
From most accounts, based on his life to that point, McCoy was a most unlikely hijacker.

Point being -- Nothing in McCoy's history seems to jive with him hijacking a plane, escaping from prison and ending up in a shootout either. Hmmmm.....Go figure.

If you're strictly talking persona, the folks that seem "Most likely to hijack and jump from a plane" are guys like Mayfield, Peterson, Braden.

I'm curious - where does it say that the suit was cheap? Not saying it doesn't - I just don't remember that. Hal Williams said he looked like a "sharp looking business man to me" Hate to see another myth turned to reality.

And finally ....cause it was just hanging out there and I couldn't resist.....

"I did not have sex with that woman".....
Former President Bill Clinton to the American Public"

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

seems to be perfectly fine for KC to be over qualified as a jumper?
seems to be fine that KC's description is way off.

"They cite a poor match to eyewitness physical descriptions, a level
of skydiving expertise above that predicted by their suspect profile,
and an absence of direct incriminating evidence."

someone smoking and drinking bourbon, can't be, in 1971?

here we are a week later and Blevins website still has inaccurate
information on it, but continues to be the one to correct people with
his knowledge?

Robert about his mistakes:
"Mine are many, and some are legend."

I would like to know where he got his information about a cheap suit?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

Completely off subject, but if you ever get the chance, read about Centralia, PA or watch a documentary called "The Town That Was" (It's free on Hulu - just have to watch a couple of commercials).
I'd read about it before and have seen pics but the documentary goes into more detail. Interesting story.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

I think to explore any other theory you have to get the burr out from under your saddle and look at things without relating everything to their favorite suspect AND take out the animosity towards other people that have a suspect. You also have to remember that a GREAT deal of your "evidence" for KC amounts to hearsay. The same as everyone else.
I personally doubt its either one, quite likely it's someone we've never heard of who is at the bottom of a large body of water.

That said.........

#1. There is a large field between cheap suit and expensive silk. If the tie came from J C Penneys, as I believe you have posited before, hey it's likely the suit might have too. That's the kind of store that my daddy got his suits from and I never thought of him as wearing a "cheap suit". "Cheap suit" changes the description. Words matter sometimes, esp in descriptions and these are people who would have looked at a suit from Penneys or Sears as just being a 'Suit". Not identifying it as expensive does not mean that it was "cheap". Far from it actually --- "sharp-looking business man" (the only description I remember) goes more to defining an expensive suit than a "cheap" one.

As far as nothing he did matching the actions of a military man. That is best answered by pointing you back to my post on McCoy, et al and of those that would have "fit the bill". Read it again and digest.
Be illuminated.
My point - for every criminal that fits a certain profile for this specific, I can show you one that doesn't. Additionally -- look at Wolfgang Gossett's life subsequent to the hijacking ---Is that where you see his military bearing taking him -- Seriously? --this is one dude that seems to have made a life out of breaking from his mold.




Judge Chamberlain Haller: Mr. Gambini?
Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?
Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Vinny Gambini: Thank you, Your Honor.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: [firm tone] Overruled.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Centralia, PA: Isn't that the town that was eaten alive by an underground coal fire that is still burning today?

Yes, Anthracite coal -- but Not quite eaten up. I think there were 11 people left in 2007 at the time of the docu. I had read about it before but never really "felt" the story til seeing the video.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

Georger I need for you to open PM's to me briefly. I have NEW information I cannot share with this thread.

If you do not trust me then have Sluggo call me. I do NOT want to put what I just found out in a PM or Email. I need to share it with you or someone who actually cares about this case being solved....and who is knowledgeable of the case.

NO it is NOT about Weber! Just something I was told and matched what Duane told me and filled in the details. The FBI had little contact with this man and with me and was sworn to secrecy back in the 70's. He is very real and the FBI spoke with him many many yrs ago, but everything he ever told them was ignored. He was a jumper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

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Georger I need for you to open PM's to me briefly. I have NEW information I cannot share with this thread.

If you do not trust me then have Sluggo call me. I do NOT want to put what I just found out in a PM or Email. I need to share it with you or someone who actually cares about this case being solved....and who is knowledgeable of the case.

NO it is NOT about Weber! Just something I was told and matched what Duane told me and filled in the details. The FBI had little contact with this man and with me and was sworn to secrecy back in the 70's. He is very real and the FBI spoke with him many many yrs ago, but everything he ever told them was ignored. He was a jumper.

"NO it is NOT about Weber!"
"Just something I was told and matched what Duane told me and filled in the details"
" He was a jumper"

but not about Duane??? sounds like everything to do with Weber

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"Didn't McCoy wear a jumpsuit and boots? Didn't he threaten the hell out of people with that fake grenade and pistol? Looks like Mr Military came prepared. The idea of Gossett, a jumper with recent experience and twenty-five years in the military at the time of the hijacking, doing the Cooper Thing is still tough to swallow. Suit, dress shoes, a briefcase with a bomb, no visible weapon, no boots, polite to a fault, and absolutely nothing in conversation or actions that would lead any of the witnesses to think he was active-duty military. 305 does not sound like the work of a lifelong military man, but either an amateur who got lucky or someone with just enough experience jumping to be dangerous. Sorry, but I just can't envision Gossett coming to the biggest party of his life so unprepared. "

you need a grenade and pistol to be on "active duty?
did Cooper not threaten to blow up a plane with a bomb?
did you put your application in to the FBI for immediate "active duty" to start clearing up these old cases?

Robert about his mistakes:
"Mine are many, and some are legend."
I'm going to listen to you???

Robert says:
Edit: It could be a trick of the light, maybe...but in the attached pic of Gossett, looks like half of his left eyebrow is missing.

Shutter says:
could be a trick of light, isn't Kenny missing half his hair? might be wrong though.......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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smokin99 says in part:

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'You also have to remember that a GREAT deal of your "evidence" for KC amounts to hearsay...'

Hearsay evidence is when a witness testifies to what ANOTHER person may have said, or did say. Direct testimony is where a witness testifies to what they have seen or known on their own, without quoting a second party. Most of the witnesses on KC's life and actions are direct witnesses, not hearsay witnesses.

Thanks for the law lesson but None - count em Z-E-R-O of your "witnessess" have any direct knowledge of kenny Christiansen as a hijacker. That's zilch, nada.
None of your witnesses lived full time with KC or was direct witness to anything other than they were at a dinner where he didn't show up and the fact that he loaned them money. None of them have any direct knowledge of where his money came from. None of them know what KC did on his layovers. Much, actually, of your testimony is hearsay. Most of the rest is just circumstantial and uncorroborated. Which makes it about as good as hearsay. Let's see someone said that Kenny installed cabinets - why that means he must have made the secret hideaway. No one saw him build it. Did you talk to someone that actually found buried money on his property? I thought not.
Someone says logs are missing - why that must mean that Bernie stole them. I could go on and on - but I won't. You're welcome. Hearsay fits a good portion of your stuff. It may not be the right word for a couple of instances - maybe speculation would fit those - but what you have is definitely not ALL direct testimony.



Vinny Gambini: [opening statements] Uh... everything that guy just said is bullshit... Thank you.
D.A. Jim Trotter: Objection. Counsel's entire opening statement is argumentative.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Sustained. Counselor's entire opening statement... with the exception of "thank you"... will be stricken from the record.


Vinny Gambini: Your Honor, may I have permission to treat Ms. Vito as a hostile witness?
Mona Lisa Vito: You think I'm hostile now, wait 'til you see me tonight.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Do you two know each other?
Vinny Gambini: Yeah, she's my fiancée.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Well, that would certainly explain the hostility.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

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Georger I need for you to open PM's to me briefly. I have NEW information I cannot share with this thread.

If you do not trust me then have Sluggo call me. I do NOT want to put what I just found out in a PM or Email. I need to share it with you or someone who actually cares about this case being solved....and who is knowledgeable of the case.

NO it is NOT about Weber! Just something I was told and matched what Duane told me and filled in the details. The FBI had little contact with this man and with me and was sworn to secrecy back in the 70's. He is very real and the FBI spoke with him many many yrs ago, but everything he ever told them was ignored. He was a jumper.

"NO it is NOT about Weber!"
"Just something I was told and matched what Duane told me and filled in the details"
" He was a jumper"

but not about Duane??? sounds like everything to do with Weber

CREEP! Why this thread will never solve the case! This is real information and I have already contacted the FBI by phone and email.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

I simply pointed out that you were talking about Duane! and yet the
name calling comes right behind it! you have a big problem with Criticism.

you constantly come on here like you have the key to the crime and then
state you can not share it on the thread!

next time just PM the person and don't say anything on the thread!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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smokin99 says in part:

Quote

'You also have to remember that a GREAT deal of your "evidence" for KC amounts to hearsay...'

Hearsay evidence is when a witness testifies to what ANOTHER person may have said, or did say. Direct testimony is where a witness testifies to what they have seen or known on their own, without quoting a second party. Most of the witnesses on KC's life and actions are direct witnesses, not hearsay witnesses.

Quote

'As far as nothing he did matching the actions of a military man. That is best answered by pointing you back to my post on McCoy, et al and of those that would have "fit the bill". Read it again and digest. Be illuminated...'

Didn't McCoy wear a jumpsuit and boots? Didn't he threaten the hell out of people with that fake grenade and pistol? Looks like Mr Military came prepared. The idea of Gossett, a jumper with recent experience and twenty-five years in the military at the time of the hijacking, doing the Cooper Thing is still tough to swallow. Suit, dress shoes, a briefcase with a bomb, no visible weapon, no boots, polite to a fault, and absolutely nothing in conversation or actions that would lead any of the witnesses to think he was active-duty military. 305 does not sound like the work of a lifelong military man, but either an amateur who got lucky or someone with just enough experience jumping to be dangerous. Sorry, but I just can't envision Gossett coming to the biggest party of his life so unprepared.

Edit: It could be a trick of the light, maybe...but in the attached pic of Gossett, looks like half of his left eyebrow is missing.

And your point is...... moot.

I hate to point it out to you ad nauseum that Gossett, based on his entire life, fits the personality profile much more than KC.

The rest of Gossett's life does not fit the profile of a lifelong military man. The mere fact that you have McCoy undertaking this is out of character. I hate to tell you but DB Cooper was not above threatening people with instant death. And you know we don't really know how experienced or prepared Cooper was do we? If he made it seems like he was as experienced and prepared as he needed to be. If he didn't, well shucks, I guess he wasn't.

Your logic doesn't make sense anyway - IF he was an experienced jumper, then he should be wearing a paramilitary outfit waving around grenades and guns?? As opposed to saying - look miss, I have a bomb, then calmly putting on a chute and jumping out???? I'd say cool under pressure accounts for a lot, but that's just me.

Maybe, just maybe whoever pulled it off was smart enough to know that he needed to act out of character.

Oh well - we could be here forever trying to solve the case based on known personality traits. Ain't gonna happen.



Mona Lisa Vito: What?
Vinny Gambini: Nothing. You stick out like a sore thumb around here.
Mona Lisa Vito: Me? What about you?
Vinny Gambini: I fit in better than you. At least I'm wearing cowboy boots.
Mona Lisa Vito: Oh yeah, you blend.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill