DB Cooper

[377 22]

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Bruce,

You've opened up a whole new really big can of worms here. I often think about this possibility, and I always ask: How creative and resourceful was DBC and how thorough was the search and processing of the crime scene? You bring up nuggets in this post.
It makes me wonder what he was really doing in the restroom for all that time. Maybe he hid under the toilet. That's the last place I'd look. Moreover, I'm getting a strong feeling here (and this time it isn't gas -- pun intended) he may have put all that knowledge of that particular Boeing aircraft to lots of good use. He knew about deploying the aft stairs in flight -- knowledge that the flight crew didn't even have. What other knowledge or surprises did he have?

You got me thinking Bruce -- it's a totally different angle -- it's fun to consider the possibilities.

MeyerLouie

It's an intriguing possibilty Meyer, but I have several 727 manuals that show the aircraft in great detail. I just can't see where he could have concealed himself that could be accessed from the passenger cabin. Most of the access panels have exterior fasteners. How could you retighten them from the inside to conceal your entry?

I sometimes wonder if he exited waaaay later than the pressure bump point, but there is no evidence to support this, and the T Bar money tends to contradict it. But where is his gear and his briefcase with the alleged bomb?

Could his body have been found by hunters who stripped the loot and hid the remains? Could he have been shot by hunters who took the loot and hid the body?

Mr. Occam tells me to stop coming up with these wild convoluted explanations. He tells me crooks rarely throw away money and that the T Bar money suggests that Cooper died. I ask Occam how the money got to T Bar and he says: "by the simplest means possible" which is no help at all.

I am a bit worried about Farflung. He has gone NORDO.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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Has Brian ever mapped out exactly how the bills were found? Carr mentions him giving several stories?

Just below the tree line - whatever the tree line was in 1980. Some have been destroyed and some are still there and all different ages. If you look at the old pictures of the existing trees in 1980 when they found the money - then it is pretty easy to figure out the tree line as it was in 1980.

What I found strange about this designation was that one does not build a fire under the tree branches. Of course when I was on the beach with Himmelsbach in 2001 the trees had grown considerably - therefore the site was outside of the tree foilage in 1980. Himmelsbach even noted how many feet from the fence the find was. ALL of this is recorded and bet you Georger know how many feet from the fence.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

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Has Brian ever mapped out exactly how the bills were found? Carr mentions him giving several stories?

Just below the tree line - whatever the tree line was in 1980. Some have been destroyed and some are still there and all different ages. If you look at the old pictures of the existing trees in 1980 when they found the money - then it is pretty easy to figure out the tree line as it was in 1980.

What I found strange about this designation was that one does not build a fire under the tree branches. Of course when I was on the beach with Himmelsbach in 2001 the trees had grown considerably - therefore the site was outside of the tree foilage in 1980. Himmelsbach even noted how many feet from the fence the find was. ALL of this is recorded and bet you Georger know how many feet from the fence.

I'm looking for the position of the bills. where the inches apart, two feet apart, all in a line together?
they could of been a couple feet apart from one another, were they inside a square foot area?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MeyerLouie 5]

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Bruce,

You've opened up a whole new really big can of worms here. I often think about this possibility, and I always ask: How creative and resourceful was DBC and how thorough was the search and processing of the crime scene? You bring up nuggets in this post.
It makes me wonder what he was really doing in the restroom for all that time. Maybe he hid under the toilet. That's the last place I'd look. Moreover, I'm getting a strong feeling here (and this time it isn't gas -- pun intended) he may have put all that knowledge of that particular Boeing aircraft to lots of good use. He knew about deploying the aft stairs in flight -- knowledge that the flight crew didn't even have. What other knowledge or surprises did he have?

You got me thinking Bruce -- it's a totally different angle -- it's fun to consider the possibilities.

MeyerLouie

It's an intriguing possibilty Meyer, but I have several 727 manuals that show the aircraft in great detail. I just can't see where he could have concealed himself that could be accessed from the passenger cabin. Most of the access panels have exterior fasteners. How could you retighten them from the inside to conceal your entry?

I sometimes wonder if he exited waaaay later than the pressure bump point, but there is no evidence to support this, and the T Bar money tends to contradict it. But where is his gear and his briefcase with the alleged bomb?

Could his body have been found by hunters who stripped the loot and hid the remains? Could he have been shot by hunters who took the loot and hid the body?

Mr. Occam tells me to stop coming up with these wild convoluted explanations. He tells me crooks rarely throw away money and that the T Bar money suggests that Cooper died. I ask Occam how the money got to T Bar and he says: "by the simplest means possible" which is no help at all.

I am a bit worried about Farflung. He has gone NORDO.

377

_________________________________________________

Yeah, where is Farflung? I miss his elegant prose.

Another point, 377: I have always thought there was next to no chance DBC ended up in the River. The probability and likelihood are so very very small. Farflung laid out just how unlikely this really is. But... this is such a bizarre, unprecedented case, and bizarre, uprecedented things happen. I'm now thinking it's possible that Cooper ended up in the River, as remote as that possibility might be. Why do say this? Because some of the money was found on the banks of the River? And that also means he must have exited past the pressure bump point -- and from what I've been hearing, that is possible -- not likely, but possible. So many things to consider here....

MeyerLouie

[skyjack71 0]

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I'm looking for the position of the bills. where the inches apart, two feet apart, all in a line together?
they could of been a couple feet apart from one another, were they inside a square foot area?

That very question was asked on the river in 2001 with the crew. It is not something I would have made notes on during those first few yrs of talking to Mr. H., but I assure you if it is known - I will have the answer shortly. Brian was a kid and life goes on - his anwer might no longer be viable, so prefer RECORDS and sometime thoses are not reliable and depends on the source! WOW! That was a mouthful.

Someone might answer your question before I can find out from the Wagon Master. The mules just obey orders!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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Yeah, where is Farflung? I miss his elegant prose.

Another point, 377: I have always thought there was next to no chance DBC ended up in the River. The probability and likelihood are so very very small. Farflung laid out just how unlikely this really is. But... this is such a bizarre, unprecedented case, and bizarre, uprecedented things happen. I'm now thinking it's possible that Cooper ended up in the River, as remote as that possibility might be. Why do say this? Because some of the money was found on the banks of the River? And that also means he must have exited past the pressure bump point -- and from what I've been hearing, that is possible -- not likely, but possible. So many things to consider here....

MeyerLouie

Indeed Meyer. Georger also put together a very convincing post about the odds of Cooper ending up in the river. They were very low. Still, sometimes very improbable things do happen.

Wouldnt that be a bitch, you pull off the crime of the century land alive with the money, but in the frigging river? I can just imagine what DBC would be thinking as he drowned.

I think I could make a pressure bump on a 727 jump by bouncing on the bottom of the stairs and then make a gentle exit later that would be far less noticeable. But there's no evidence that DBC knew it could be done or did it.

If you exited from the top of the stairs your moment arm (and hence stair deflection) would a lot less than from the bottom. Robert 99, do you agree?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Jo wrote (in blue boldface)

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Someone might answer your question before I can find out from the Wagon Master. The mules just obey orders!

Has the "Wagon Master rescinded the order to post in RED?

What is the reasoning?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

The Below was written by Jo Weber and is the property of Jo Weber:

Brian was a child and several individuals were involved - the story changed over the yrs.

One of the FIRST individuals to arrive at the site after Brian's parents contacted the authorities told me what I have tried to summarize below along with my own inflections:

The money had PAPER BANK WRAPPERS - so many 20's in a pack. The bank kept such demominations and others already recorded for such incidents as this. The timing was during BANKING HOURS on Thankgiving Eve & Cooper timed this properly!

NOTE: DID Cooper look at his watch and does Tina knows what it looked like?

Another question has also been answered and if BLEVINS uses any of this I personally will THROW him out of plane and he better pray his chute opens.
If he or anyone else out here tries to connect their suspect to Cooper by hitching a ride on the watch - the individual might not have a hand left!

Maybe I am MAKING all of this up or taking liberaties the way the press & researchers have done over the yrs. WANT TO PLACE A BET ON IT?

The paper wrapped bundles were gathered up into bundles - how many packets to a bundle is unknown to the person. This was done by personnel at the bank.

How many packets where in a bundle is unknown (so you guys do you home work - in those days how many 20's were in a paper wrap - probably my guess 2K per paper wrap). I got the impression it was 3 packets to a bundle. This is probably the mis-nomer all of these yrs (Packets versus bundles). The rubber band or bands that held the bundles together was dry & crumbled - and there were remanents of it at the site and on the money.

REMEMBER Brian's parents tried to clean the money up!

Since Brian was ONLY clearing a site for the fire - it was a scoop like any child would make when told to make a site for the fire.
He DID not dig a hole. The money was just below the surface (estimate 3 to 4 inches).

Since the money was wet & crumbling there were fragments in the area (remember Brian used his hand and his arm) - then of course as anyone would have done - everyone joined in looking for more. Remember the small cousin who claimed she found the money - she was just a toddler - (sure she probably dug in also and found a corner or such - there was a lot of excitement finding that much money on the river banks).

I asked how large of an area.
That question cannot be answered by any one person other than the children - a toddler and a 12 yr old. The rest of the story you guys know - as everyone dug around and remanents became scattered and sifted thur the sand and soil. The packets were found together in a broken bundle....but together never the less. No other bundles were found.

Where there 3 bundles or just the 3 packets in one bundle? I did not get this far and only Brian can answer that question!

My personal opinion - it was 3 packets in one bundle. The bundle was so damaged the skyjacker knew he couldn't launder it - so he laid it to rest with his memories of WA - on the Columbia in Sept of 1979. Probably a salute to the person who taught him what he knew to survive the jump.

The above article is the property of Jo Weber on this Feb. 22, 2013.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

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If you exited from the top of the stairs your moment arm (and hence stair deflection) would a lot less than from the bottom. Robert 99, do you agree?

377

377,

Agreed.

This almost certainly means that the pressure bump was the point where Cooper jumped.

Further, the FBI 727 sled tests reportedly (by the members of the 305 flight crew) matched the pressure bump when the sled slid off the end of the stairs.

So it seems to be reasonable to assume that Cooper jumped from the last step of the stairs. This would also give him the most head room with the stairs down as far as his weight could get them.

Robert99

[Robert99 50]

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I don't think Cooper jumped from anywhere near the top of the stairs. We already know from Rataczak that the stairs would only have provided 24-36 inches of headroom at their initial opening. The stairs remaining in this position due to airflow, unlesss someone's weight was applied to them. I still believe it's a good bet that Cooper BACKED down the stairs, and I have reasons for saying this.

If the stairs were only open two or three feet, this means the hijacker, packing a parachute on his back and a money bag/briefcase combination...would find it difficult to go forward. You would have to lean over at a severe angle, and the chances of losing your balance and tumbling head over right off the end of the stairs would be very possible. If you back down, then the stairs fall gradually as you advance, plus you could keep one hand on the rail to steady yourself. I personally believe (although admittedly there is no proof) that he simply pulled the ripcord at the end of the stairs in a backward position and let the chute pull him right off the end of the stairs. This would be the safest way to exit the aircraft, and the method where you would know the chute was actually going to open for you.

Of course, this forward or backward exit has little to do with the solving of the case. But I think that's how he did it. You could get a tight grip on the money bag, etc while doing it. You could see the chute open for you before committing your life to the thing. La de da and off you go.

Blevins, You do need to spend some quiet time on a vacation in the mountains.

Cooper would have to be near the bottom of the stairs in order to have enough clearance from the tail cone to exit. The instance his weight comes off those stairs, they are going to be blown upwards and he had better be clear of the stairs or he is going to get squashed.

It really doesn't make any difference which way Cooper faces going down the stairs. He is NOT going to be leaning to the rear of the aircraft if he walks down facing in that direction.

But when it comes time to jump, I would strongly suggest that he face to the rear of the aircraft. He is going to be jumping into about a 225 MPH airstream that has a wind chill factor of about 35 degrees below zero. Consequently, he might prefer to have that wind at his back, rather directly into his face, when he jumps.

The upper limit for opening military parachutes of that era, with a reasonable assurance that they will not shred to pieces, is also about 225 MPH. So it would be a very marginal condition to pull the rip cord at that speed.

If Cooper did pull the rip cord while on the stairs as you recommend, the instance those four rip cord pins move a couple of inches means that he is committed. He simply does not have the ability to "... see the chute open before committing your life to the thing". Cooper sure as hell couldn't hang onto the stairs with an inflated canopy.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

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The Below was written by Jo Weber and is the property of Jo Weber:

Brian was a child and several individuals were involved - the story changed over the yrs.

One of the FIRST individuals to arrive at the site after Brian's parents contacted the authorities told me what I have tried to summarize below along with my own inflections:

The money had PAPER BANK WRAPPERS - so many 20's in a pack. The bank kept such demominations and others already recorded for such incidents as this. The timing was during BANKING HOURS on Thankgiving Eve & Cooper timed this properly!

NOTE: DID Cooper look at his watch and does Tina knows what it looked like?

Another question has also been answered and if BLEVINS uses any of this I personally will THROW him out of plane and he better pray his chute opens.
If he or anyone else out here tries to connect their suspect to Cooper by hitching a ride on the watch - the individual might not have a hand left!

Maybe I am MAKING all of this up or taking liberaties the way the press & researchers have done over the yrs. WANT TO PLACE A BET ON IT?

The paper wrapped bundles were gathered up into bundles - how many packets to a bundle is unknown to the person. This was done by personnel at the bank.

How many packets where in a bundle is unknown (so you guys do you home work - in those days how many 20's were in a paper wrap - probably my guess 2K per paper wrap). I got the impression it was 3 packets to a bundle. This is probably the mis-nomer all of these yrs (Packets versus bundles). The rubber band or bands that held the bundles together was dry & crumbled - and there were remanents of it at the site and on the money.

REMEMBER Brian's parents tried to clean the money up!

Since Brian was ONLY clearing a site for the fire - it was a scoop like any child would make when told to make a site for the fire.
He DID not dig a hole. The money was just below the surface (estimate 3 to 4 inches).

Since the money was wet & crumbling there were fragments in the area (remember Brian used his hand and his arm) - then of course as anyone would have done - everyone joined in looking for more. Remember the small cousin who claimed she found the money - she was just a toddler - (sure she probably dug in also and found a corner or such - there was a lot of excitement finding that much money on the river banks).

I asked how large of an area.
That question cannot be answered by any one person other than the children - a toddler and a 12 yr old. The rest of the story you guys know - as everyone dug around and remanents became scattered and sifted thur the sand and soil. The packets were found together in a broken bundle....but together never the less. No other bundles were found.

Where there 3 bundles or just the 3 packets in one bundle? I did not get this far and only Brian can answer that question!

My personal opinion - it was 3 packets in one bundle. The bundle was so damaged the skyjacker knew he couldn't launder it - so he laid it to rest with his memories of WA - on the Columbia in Sept of 1979. Probably a salute to the person who taught him what he knew to survive the jump.

The above article is the property of Jo Weber on this Feb. 22, 2013.

PS - Georger, I expected you to be on top of this, but like myself there is little to say anymore.

Regarding the above information I expected you to jump on a couple of things I mentioned. Did I misunderstand the source?

As you have said - Jo is unpredictable!

1. Another item that might put a subject on the plane besides a 20 dollar bill. I dropped a couple of clues you and Kaye need to rehash.

2. The paper bands on the money! It is unknown to me if the bands had any printing on them and they were just paper which would quick decompose.

3. Think about # 2 because this might explain a stain on one of the bills and the existence of another know substance found on the bills.

Sometime the simple mind of a woman goes where NO one expects.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

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Robert99 says in part:

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'facing the rear of the aircraft when he jumps...'

But what if he doesn't actually jump, as in freefall-then-pull jumping? 377, who is also a skydiver (I'm not, that's true) agrees with the idea of just pulling while still on the stairs. I agree with facing the rear if you actually jump. There's no doubt the stairs rebounded after they were freed of his weight. But if you pull on the stairs, if you were facing the rear, wouldn't the chute just envelope you all over from the airstream pushing against your back? On the jump location: I also said it had to be at the bottom, yes. But I still think he went down the stairs backwards. Big load, low clearance initially. Leaning over to get past 24-36 inch gap between the stairs and the bulkhead sounds pretty dangerous. This might have been a surprise for the hijacker, who may have expected full extension, or something close to it. So he turns and starts edging his way down backwards. Stairs move downward as he goes. At the end, he may have jumped as you say, or faced forward and tried it that way. I don't know. Just a theory.

I personally don't recommend pulling on the stairs in the first place under the conditions Cooper was exposed to. But if you do want to pull on the stairs, facing forward is what you would do. Also, do you have an estimate of how many canopy panels (assuming an NB-6 canopy) would be blown out during an opening at 225 MPH?

Robert99

[Robert99 50]

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Robert99 says in part:

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'facing the rear of the aircraft when he jumps...'

But what if he doesn't actually jump, as in freefall-then-pull jumping? 377, who is also a skydiver (I'm not, that's true) agrees with the idea of just pulling while still on the stairs. I agree with facing the rear if you actually jump. There's no doubt the stairs rebounded after they were freed of his weight. But if you pull on the stairs, if you were facing the rear, wouldn't the chute just envelope you all over from the airstream pushing against your back? On the jump location: I also said it had to be at the bottom, yes. But I still think he went down the stairs backwards. Big load, low clearance initially. Leaning over to get past 24-36 inch gap between the stairs and the bulkhead sounds pretty dangerous. This might have been a surprise for the hijacker, who may have expected full extension, or something close to it. So he turns and starts edging his way down backwards. Stairs move downward as he goes. At the end, he may have jumped as you say, or faced forward and tried it that way. I don't know. Just a theory.

I personally don't recommend pulling on the stairs in the first place under the conditions Cooper was exposed to. But if you do want to pull on the stairs, facing forward is what you would do. Also, do you have an estimate of how many canopy panels (assuming an NB-6 canopy) would be blown out during an opening at 225 MPH?

Robert99

I don't know. I think 377's imput, or any other experienced skydiver would be beneficial here. I thought 305 was going about 175 knots, though. That's still fast, but I think 200mph.

The NWA 305 flight crew were instructed to fly at 170 Knots Indicated Airspeed since that was the speed for maximum range under the conditions that they were operating.

This 170 KIAS has to be corrected (using a standard pilot's calculator) to produce the true airspeed. Under the pressure and temperature conditions the airliner was operating, 170 KIAS becomes 195 KTAS. Then converting that to MPH produces 225 MPH.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

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Like adding paper bands back on where none existed. How could there be paper bands still around the bills after they were individually recorded for the numbers? Wouldn't you have to remove those first, record the numbers, and then re-bundle the money using rubber bands?

This is where U do NOT think!
Those notes had been recorded prior to being stored, just for the purpose they were used for. Remember - Mr H did NOT write the book and there are a couple of misnomers in it.

The money in the safe was already banded and recorded. Then bundled with rubber bands as they packed and counted it. Do YOU actually think all of those 20's were copied while Cooper waited for them?

Banded packs of 20's ($2000) per pack. All they did was bundle them with rubber bands by 3's or 4's or 5's so they could be transported.

Do U actually think they already had the pacs bundled with rubber bands? They did that as they counted out the amount! A stack of 3 packs would be a 3 inch bundle - 6000 dollars and 5 packs 10,000 dollars. Each bundle had to be handled and accounted for.

AGAIN you missed it entirely!
Bundles versus packs - 3 packs to a bundle approx 3 inch bricks. Each pack had a paper band on it, but the bundles had rubber bands on them. There may have been 4 packs or 5 packs in a bundle - the source did NOT say and I did not ask.

This is just how you have worked your book all of these yrs - go jump out of a plane! Before Jack can get around the corner you will change your book again. NOT this time!

Ever WORK in a BANK? Didn't think so!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Amazon 7]

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Robert99 says in part:

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'facing the rear of the aircraft when he jumps...'

But what if he doesn't actually jump, as in freefall-then-pull jumping? 377, who is also a skydiver (I'm not, that's true) agrees with the idea of just pulling while still on the stairs. I agree with facing the rear if you actually jump. There's no doubt the stairs rebounded after they were freed of his weight. But if you pull on the stairs, if you were facing the rear, wouldn't the chute just envelope you all over from the airstream pushing against your back? On the jump location: I also said it had to be at the bottom, yes. But I still think he went down the stairs backwards. Big load, low clearance initially. Leaning over to get past 24-36 inch gap between the stairs and the bulkhead sounds pretty dangerous. This might have been a surprise for the hijacker, who may have expected full extension, or something close to it. So he turns and starts edging his way down backwards. Stairs move downward as he goes. At the end, he may have jumped as you say, or faced forward and tried it that way. I don't know. Just a theory.

I personally don't recommend pulling on the stairs in the first place under the conditions Cooper was exposed to. But if you do want to pull on the stairs, facing forward is what you would do. Also, do you have an estimate of how many canopy panels (assuming an NB-6 canopy) would be blown out during an opening at 225 MPH?

Robert99

A C-9 would open just fine at that speed it was designed to function during high speed ejections... they do not just explode open. They open from the top down. I have laid back and watched them do that just that. Watch the canopy at 23 sec I did a whole bunch of those Or you can watch this.. I showed it to a few people over the years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvBxQC-Olyg

[skyjack71 0]

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Robert99 says in part:

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'facing the rear of the aircraft when he jumps...'

But what if he doesn't actually jump, as in freefall-then-pull jumping? 377, who is also a skydiver (I'm not, that's true) agrees with the idea of just pulling while still on the stairs. I agree with facing the rear if you actually jump. There's no doubt the stairs rebounded after they were freed of his weight. But if you pull on the stairs, if you were facing the rear, wouldn't the chute just envelope you all over from the airstream pushing against your back? On the jump location: I also said it had to be at the bottom, yes. But I still think he went down the stairs backwards. Big load, low clearance initially. Leaning over to get past 24-36 inch gap between the stairs and the bulkhead sounds pretty dangerous. This might have been a surprise for the hijacker, who may have expected full extension, or something close to it. So he turns and starts edging his way down backwards. Stairs move downward as he goes. At the end, he may have jumped as you say, or faced forward and tried it that way. I don't know. Just a theory.

I personally don't recommend pulling on the stairs in the first place under the conditions Cooper was exposed to. But if you do want to pull on the stairs, facing forward is what you would do. Also, do you have an estimate of how many canopy panels (assuming an NB-6 canopy) would be blown out during an opening at 225 MPH?

Robert99

A C-9 would open just fine at that speed it was designed to function during high speed ejections... they do not just explode open. They open from the top down. I have laid back and watched them do that just that. Watch the canopy at 23 sec I did a whole bunch of those

Mississippi 1 and repeat to the count of 10 and pull....you have cleared the plane. Not sure it was 10, but someone told me that one time many many yrs ago and I have never forgot it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Robt 99 wrote

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I personally don't recommend pulling on the stairs in the first place under the conditions Cooper was exposed to. But if you do want to pull on the stairs, facing forward is what you would do. Also, do you have an estimate of how many canopy panels (assuming an NB-6 canopy) would be blown out during an opening at 225 MPH?

No such thing as an NB6 canopy. Stock canopy for NB6 harness/container was a 26 ft Navy conical canopy. Very tough canopy. NB8 held a 28 ft C9, an incredibly tough canopy. A real rip stop nylon pit bull. Damned near unbreakable. My first choice for a NORJACK jump would be a C9 and perhaps it was also Coopers first choice.

Watch the YouTube video of jumps from the SAT (Air America chartered) 727 over Thailand. The speed is somewhere around 180 knots by my estimate.

One data point is the Beech 18 pacing the 727. It looks like a Volpar turboprop Twin Beech which could do 180 knots easily. http://northernaviation.biz/aircraft.htm




The canopies don't pop open quickly. They "squid" and slow down naturally reducing opening stresses. I was surprised to see the phenomena on unsleeved unmodified C9 canopies.

http://youtu.be/lrqdmXxBZjI

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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Seafirst Bank may have recorded the numbers in advance, I will give you that. But you do not know the size of the money bundles. Most sources say they did approximately 100 twenty-dollar bills per bundle, varying that number a bit as they packaged the money.

Here's the problem: Again, another claim, no reference, no source, no way to verify. You throw out stuff and don't even bother to name a witness. You present so-called 'evidence' and either it's missing today or you have no other sources to back your claims. That's like me trying to tell you Kenny Christiansen was the hijacker because I alone say so. Sorry, that's not good enough.

My source is confidential and a person who was there. You use the wording most sources - DUHH! Use a source who knew exactly how the money was given to Cooper.

[RED]
You cannot even read and comprehend. 100 20's in a pac would only be about 1/3 inch thick. Do REALLY think?

U still confuse packs with bundles! GO to the BANK!

Put 3 packs together and you have 6000 dollars and you would bundle with a rubber band, making the bundle 1 inch thick.

5 packs in a bundle would be 10,000 dollars. 1 & 2/3 inch thick.

We do NOT know how many packs they put in a bundle!
5 packs in each bundle makes the money easier to count. This would have created 20 bundles with each bundle with an approx thickness of 1 & 2/3 inches

Now you know just how large the container had to be and the approx weight.

THIS is common LOGIC which U do not always use on something as simple as this - STICK with Science Fiction - that is what you do best. When U write a book about REAL crime - stick with FACTS and verifiy those FACTS. U have NOT done this. The people I speak with have NEVER had a conversation with U, NOR do they wish to do so!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo serves up an abundance of anonymous mystery players. Night Clerk, VIPs, and now some bank officials who packed the Seafirst currency?

I like clear sunlight. Jo apparently prefers fog.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

A C-9 would open just fine at that speed it was designed to function during high speed ejections... they do not just explode open. They open from the top down. I have laid back and watched them do that just that. Watch the canopy at 23 sec I did a whole bunch of those Or you can watch this.. I showed it to a few people over the years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvBxQC-Olyg

Amazon and 377,

On the NB6 canopy remark, I was referring to the 26-foot conical canopy that was apparently the original canopy for the NB6 harness/pack. As I have mentioned before, I owned one of those up to about 2 or 3 weeks prior to the NWA 305 hijacking.

During the 1960s, the NB6 harness/pack with the 26-foot conical canopy was about the only parachute that would work in general aviation and sports aircraft that had cramped cockpits. Probably sometime in the late 1960s, civilian parachutes were designed by Security Parachute and other companies and came into use in general aviation to fill the need for a thin and compact parachute assembly. I owned several versions of the Security Parachutes (yes, I got burned on the Security 350 matter) plus a Butler parachute (my all time favorite).

Most of my "professional engineering experience" was in the area of Vertical-Take-Off-and-Landing (VTOL) aircraft. In that connection, considerable resources were spent on developing early versions of zero-zero ejection seats.

The ideal such seat would have the capability for a successful ejection at ground level and zero airspeed on up to 600 knots airspeed at ground level. Those were very difficult requirements to meet, and seldom were, in the 1960 time frame but are routinely, more or less, met today.

Usually, the early zero-zero ejection seat would eject through the canopy (to save some time). Also, research was done in speeding the canopy deployment by the use of a device that would fire slugs attached to the rim of the canopy in an outward direction and thus ballistically open the canopy. Some of these parachutes also had "ribbon" canopies to reduce the inital stresses when being deployed at high speeds.

Needless to say, military parachute technology has made quite a few advances in the last 50 years.

In the case of civilian parachutes, the FAA defines a "Low Speed" parachute as being one for operations at 150 MPH (or maybe knots) and a "High Speed" one being for operations up to 160 MPH (or again, maybe knots).

I'll send Amazon and 377 some additional information by PM related to the above subject. Amazon especially might be interested in it.

Robert99

[377 22]

I have an interest in ejection systems Robert. Have you seen the book EJECT? It's a good history and survey. I was very interested in the capsule systems for the B58 and XB70.

A skydiving friend ejected from a Navy S3. It was a spine crushing brutal experience, but he lived.

There is a cool Dornier VTOL commuter jet on display in front of the big Deutche Museum in Munich. The two pilots have bang seats.

I almost bought a very complete Martin Baker bang seat that was for sale locally really cheap. I had an idea of making a desk chair out if it but it was very uncomfortable. I passed.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Quote

I have an interest in ejection systems Robert. Have you seen the book EJECT? It's a good history and survey. I was very interested in the capsule systems for the B58 and XB70.

A skydiving friend ejected from a Navy S3. It was a spine crushing brutal experience, but he lived.

There is a cool Dornier VTOL commuter jet on display in front of the big Deutche Museum in Munich. The two pilots have bang seats.

I almost bought a very complete Martin Baker bang seat that was for sale locally really cheap. I had an idea of making a desk chair out if it but it was very uncomfortable. I passed.

377

377, I'll send you another PM on the above.

Robert99

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Usually, the early zero-zero ejection seat would eject through the canopy (to save some time)...'

Oh my God. Tell me there was a device on this seat that protected the pilot somehow from the canopy, besides his helmet.

It's elementary Blevins. The overhead part of the canopy was made of a frangible material and a "spike" would be mounted on the top portion of the ejection seat so that it contacted and shattered the canopy first. By the time (a very, very small fraction of a second) the pilot got to where the canopy had been, all he had to be concerned about was all the shards from the canopy that were flying around plus the problem that caused him to eject in the first place.

I am aware of quite a few ejections through the canopy that did not have any problems from that source.

Robert99

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I have an interest in ejection systems Robert. Have you seen the book EJECT? It's a good history and survey. I was very interested in the capsule systems for the B58 and XB70.

A skydiving friend ejected from a Navy S3. It was a spine crushing brutal experience, but he lived.

There is a cool Dornier VTOL commuter jet on display in front of the big Deutche Museum in Munich. The two pilots have bang seats.

I almost bought a very complete Martin Baker bang seat that was for sale locally really cheap. I had an idea of making a desk chair out if it but it was very uncomfortable. I passed.

377

Here ya go.. a second chance....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Ejection+seat&_sop=16

The trick is.. Get the survival seat kit w/seat pack with the nice comfy padded bits
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Ejection+seat&_sop=16

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I guess the big question regarding the parachute Cooper used is this: Could the hijacker actually jump with it and expect a reasonable result, or are the chances much greater that he would be killed in the attempt...

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Usually, the early zero-zero ejection seat would eject through the canopy (to save some time)...'

Oh my God. Tell me there was a device on this seat that protected the pilot somehow from the canopy, besides his helmet.

Also some of the seats had a curtain you pulled down over your face... look at the vid I posted earlier... There were various models of seats depending on the aircraft manufacturer and what generation of seat it was.

I always hoped ( yeah I was a bit crazy) but on the "incentive rides I got to take... I wished I would have gotten to take that kick in the ass.. I got to do the trainers.. but never the real thing... Maybe I would be a little shorter now