georger 244
georger 244
QuoteQuoteYou have a legitimate explanation for this 'cellulose, straw, and sediment' idea?
Have either you or Georger examined the bills? NO.
It's easy to knock on Kaye's team for their results, but the fact remains they are three very smart people who did a fantastic job with what they were provided. Meanwhile, you bold up everything in an effort to shout down others.
You'll excuse me if I ask for proof, or actual research, instead of comparing the Tena Bar find to prehistoric structures made of mud and straw. I saw The Ten Commandments, too. My favorite character in that one was Dathan, because he was such a weasel, but got his just desserts in the end.
Amazon's idea is much better than what you two have concocted. She says a test. I have to agree.
_________________________________________________
Of course you didn't hear Georger mention that dredging has been going on for years on the Columbia.
MeyerLouie
No offense to Aamazon at all in this - Imsure she
knows I mean none! Its just that there are people
who have been dredging and seeing-testing the
results for a very long time, and on the other end ....
there have been people dealing with 'old recovered
money' for as long or longer ... there isnt much these
folks haven;t seen in the repertoire of what can
happen to a dollar bill, between here and on Pluto!
It's almost that sweeping a catalog of experience and
expertise. The FBI for one is fully aware of that if it
even needs saying ....
Thanks and good night -
G.
Amazon 7
QuoteQuote
My experience with the Fazio's place was they were constantly pushing sand around... It was always pretty uniform sand.. not dirt that was delivered up on their property. The sand was fine enough to blow across the road pretty frequently and that is usually fairly fine to be windblown so easily.
So glad you said that! I remember the sand when I was there in 2001 with Mr. H. In 1979 I did NOT go down to the beach so I have NO idea what it was like then...other than to view it from the parking lot.
Just something VERY ANNOYING when you want to ride your bike a few miles to the end of the road for a bit of exercise.. and narrow wheeled road bikes SUCK when you hit sand. Mountain bikes with their wide tires were still something to come in the future.
Amazon 7
Quote
No offense to Aamazon at all in this - Imsure she
knows I mean none! Its just that there are people
who have been dredging and seeing-testing the
results for a very long time, and on the other end ....
there have been people dealing with 'old recovered
money' for as long or longer ... there isnt much these
folks haven;t seen in the repertoire of what can
happen to a dollar bill, between here and on Pluto!
It's almost that sweeping a catalog of experience and
expertise. The FBI for one is fully aware of that if it
even needs saying ....
Thanks and good night -
G.
My point was that I have seen what comes out of the pipe where it is being deposited. They have a similar deposit area they use at the end of Puget Island where my property is much more recently. The stuff coming out is sand... not rock or gravel.. sand. sometimes the sand is a bit dirty but certainly not filled with clay MUCK. Any branches or TREES that the cutter hits come out pretty well masticated. I was trying to make the point that I do not believe the bills would have been able to remain in stacks.. just from the forces of being ground up by that cutter head and then subjected to the intense hydraulic activity of the pumps and then washing down hundreds of yards of pipe to the out wash basin on shore where they deposit the spoil.
Since I know little to nothing about - the river or dredging, there is little I could interject.
I do have a QUESTION and WANT more than one answer.
What time of the yr was that flood?
Duane was talking to the head of the company by the name of McMillan, Duane asked how badly the flood had hurt him and he was still having to use the ferry over. Mac as he was often referred to, in the Conversation with Duane commented about Duane's extensive knowledge of the area. Duane mentioned he spent some time there and that is about how it was worded...bare minimun.
How extensive was that flood?
When was it?
Georger Evidently what-ever floods were on that river from 1971 to 1980 were NOT discussed. Would you and Amazon please discuss all of them in detail with dates and damages that may have affected the Fazio property?
Perhaps individuals with knowledge of the case and the river conditions from 1971 to 1980 - would participate in the discussion while the rest of us sit out and only ask questions. Our questions have to be specific and not argumentive. If the case was discussed in segments and stayed on topic without dragging jibberish into it - progress could be made.
Could we try this for about 30 posts and see what happens. This thread is a good tool if used properly. Those who know geologist, hydrologist, dredgers and other who do NOT come here because of the stigma and chaos, to make some posting about their knowledge....and/or some of you could go out and talk to the people or give them a call.
A lot of seniors would jump at a chance to voice their knowledge of the River during those yrs!
Talk to Senior centers in VanCouver and Battleground and engage the seniors born and raised there to discuss this. DO NOT TELL why you are there - just want personal accounting of the floods prior to 1980 for historical purposes. Some will have pictures they made. Do not mention D.B.Cooper.
Meyer lives in WA and he is an educator - maybe he could find some time to visit a Senior meeting in Vancouver and let them know ahead of time the discussion will be about the Columbia and the floods prior to 1980....that he wants to learn the history and to record it according eyewitness accounts.
Perhaps a library is a good place to have a meeting or the local senior luncheon most of them have every week.
Put some HISTORY into this WATER thing backed up with testimonies from the residents.
If I had the money I would have testimonies recorded (visual and verbal). Remember I went to Senior Centers on my trip - I felt it the best way to connect with Senior in the area. Like the 2 brothers in The Dalles who looked at picture of Duane and said he worked at a bar (one Duane had mentioned to me), but one whose name I had forgotten....and a name I can't even remember right now (I can't blame it on the dump blonde syndrome - just on old age). ![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Neither knew the past of this man was inquiring about. Just that it was my husband and he used to live in the area - I did NOT mention Cooper....except to one person there before I left.
If I had the money I would go from center to center asking Senior to tell what they know about the River prior to 1980 - for historical purposes. Most seniors do not read the board post - but during their luncheon have some one let them know a team wants their stories and pictures about the floods before - 1980. There are LOTS of ways to do this without mentioning Cooper.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteSince I know little to nothing about - the river or dredging, there is little I could interject.
I do have a QUESTION and WANT more than one answer.What time of the yr was that flood?
Duane was talking to the head of the company by the name of McMillan, Duane asked how badly the flood had hurt him and he was still having to use the ferry over. Mac as he was often referred to, in the Conversation with Duane commented about Duane's extensive knowledge of the area. Duane mentioned he spent some time there and that is about how it was worded...bare minimun.
When was it?
Perhaps individuals with knowledge of the case and the river conditions from 1971 to 1980 - would participate in the discussion while the rest of us sit out and only ask questions. Our questions have to be specific and not argumentive. If the case was discussed in segments and stayed on topic without dragging jibberish into it - progress could be made.
Could we try this for about 30 posts and see what happens. This thread is a good tool if used properly. Those who know geologist, hydrologist, dredgers and other who do NOT come here because of the stigma and chaos, to make some posting about their knowledge....and/or some of you could go out and talk to the people or give them a call.
A lot of seniors would jump at a chance to voice their knowledge of the River during those yrs!
Talk to Senior centers in VanCouver and Battleground and engage the seniors born and raised there to discuss this. DO NOT TELL why you are there - just want personal accounting of the floods prior to 1980 for historical purposes. Some will have pictures they made. Do not mention D.B.Cooper.
Meyer lives in WA and he is an educator - maybe he could find some time to visit a Senior meeting in Vancouver and let them know ahead of time the discussion will be about the Columbia and the floods prior to 1980....that he wants to learn the history and to record it according eyewitness accounts.
Perhaps a library is a good place to have a meeting or the local senior luncheon most of them have every week.
Put some HISTORY into this WATER thing backed up with testimonies from the residents.
If I had the money I would have testimonies recorded (visual and verbal). Remember I went to Senior Centers on my trip - I felt it the best way to connect with Senior in the area. Like the 2 brothers in The Dalles who looked at picture of Duane and said he worked at a bar (one Duane had mentioned to me), but one whose name I had forgotten....and a name I can't even remember right now (I can't blame it on the dump blonde syndrome - just on old age).
If I had the money I would go from center to center asking Senior to tell what they know about the River prior to 1980 - for historical purposes. Most seniors do not read the board post - but during their luncheon have some one let them know a team wants their stories and pictures about the floods before - 1980. There are LOTS of ways to do this without mentioning Cooper.
Jo, Quit trying to distract the thread! Having tea with a lot of Senior Citizens is not going to produce anything meaningful! You are a Senior Citizen and should know that!
In fact, all you have to do is check the Columbia River water levels for the late 1970s to answer legitmate questions. And the water level information is online.
Robert99 (also a Senior Citizen)
georger 244
QuoteQuote
No offense to Aamazon at all in this - Imsure she
knows I mean none! Its just that there are people
who have been dredging and seeing-testing the
results for a very long time, and on the other end ....
there have been people dealing with 'old recovered
money' for as long or longer ... there isnt much these
folks haven;t seen in the repertoire of what can
happen to a dollar bill, between here and on Pluto!
It's almost that sweeping a catalog of experience and
expertise. The FBI for one is fully aware of that if it
even needs saying ....
Thanks and good night -
G.
My point was that I have seen what comes out of the pipe where it is being deposited. They have a similar deposit area they use at the end of Puget Island where my property is much more recently. The stuff coming out is sand... not rock or gravel.. sand. sometimes the sand is a bit dirty but certainly not filled with clay MUCK. Any branches or TREES that the cutter hits come out pretty well masticated. I was trying to make the point that I do not believe the bills would have been able to remain in stacks.. just from the forces of being ground up by that cutter head and then subjected to the intense hydraulic activity of the pumps and then washing down hundreds of yards of pipe to the out wash basin on shore where they deposit the spoil.
An even bigger problem than 'can money pass
through a dredge', is the issue of how Cooper artifacts
would have become part of the bottom sediment,
between specific mile markers, to be deposited on
Tena Bar in the first place?
Tosaw used divers and Columbia river salvage experts
to try and address that issue.
QuoteAn even bigger problem than 'can money pass
through a dredge', is the issue of how Cooper artifacts
would have become part of the bottom sediment,
between specific mile markers, to be deposited on
Tena Bar in the first place?
Tosaw used divers and Columbia river salvage experts
to try and address that issue.
Georger explain that statement in more detail - please! I read Tosaw's book but it has been a long time - perhaps I should dig it out and study it some more.
Unfortunatelyr Robert99 didn't care about my idea about the Senior Centers. It worked before and I have a feeling there are a lot of seniors out there with pictures of the stormdthat are interest. It could just be a photographic accounting of past storms and the experience of those who had to deal with them.
Definitely feel something might come of this - pictures may surface and be exposed that NO one ever connected to Cooper's money. \
1.Was there a flood of any kind after Sept 1979 when I was out there.
2. How man floods from November 24 1971 and February 1980.
3. Does anyone have pictures made during this span of time of Tena's bar and other popular water front areas from the Bonneville Dam to Tena's Bar.
Just used Bonneville Dam as a starting place - not that I think it has anything to do with Cooper.
Would love to see pictures of the site across from the PDX in 1971 versus how it was in 1979 and then 2001. I know but I think people need to see pic so they realized the changes and the things I told about the site are going to be dead on with the pics.
Nothing there in 1979 other than a steep bank down to the river.
In 1971 - there may have been a house there if what Duane said in 1979 meant anything. He used to know the man who owned it - who owned it? In 2001 there was 3 new homes there on the water and Winterly park had been completed. There could be another property just EAST of the property that borders Winterly...that may have been the site. I want to know the history and building permits and who owned interest in these properties from 1950 to 2001.
Bet one would find a name there we might ALL be familiar with. I couldn't afford to have the property records searched for prior owners and couldn't find a real estate agent to take it on. If it was NOT so far and so expensive to live there I would have spent the last 5 yrs living there and searching the records myself.
Duane Weber was in Spokane. An official told me I could put Weber in a chute, but it wouldn't put him on the damn plane! (Makes one wonder if the FBI had not already put him in a chute).
So far no one has been able to put any suspect ON the plane. DNA and Prints too compromised to offer any assistance, plus they don't know if what little they do have even belonged to Cooper.
Well, lets see if Jo puts Weber on the plane - is she holding something that will do just that?
Has she done it already? Is she fishing? Is the FBI playing cat & mouse with her? Why does she continue to TEASE if she is holding?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Amazon 7
Quote
When was it?
Perhaps individuals with knowledge of the case and the river conditions from 1971 to 1980 - would participate in the discussion while the rest of us sit out and only ask questions. Our questions have to be specific and not argumentive. If the case was discussed in segments and stayed on topic without dragging jibberish into it - progress could be made.
Could we try this for about 30 posts and see what happens. This thread is a good tool if used properly. Those who know geologist, hydrologist, dredgers and other who do NOT come here because of the stigma and chaos, to make some posting about their knowledge....and/or some of you could go out and talk to the people or give them a call.
.
Basically Jo.. you can assume that the river floods at least twice every year. Some years the conditions add up to larger river flows so higher water levels.
Usually the BIG ONES are in mid winter since I have lived here.. you get a LOT of snow in the high country as well as quite a bit of snow in the lowlands to the west of the Cascades. That usually lasts for about two weeks of cold and then a warm air mass moves in from the Pacific with a LOT of rain. That saturates all of the snow as well as the warm air temps leading to a major melt off. some of those floods get EPIC. The two largest floods were late 1890's. and 1948. (Out of your years) Then you get the spring runoff and snow melt usually occurring across the region in May to as late as early June. Most of the time the water levels get high but are not as damaging as the ones that occur in Jan or Feb in mid winter. The mid winter ones are very abrupt while the spring runoff is strictly controlled by when it the warm weather finally gets here when the days get long in April.
http://columbiariverimages.com/Regions/Places/water_resources_center.html
Amazon 7
QuoteAmazon says in part:
Quote'My point was that I have seen what comes out of the pipe where it is being deposited. They have a similar deposit area they use at the end of Puget Island where my property is much more recently. The stuff coming out is sand... not rock or gravel.. sand. sometimes the sand is a bit dirty but certainly not filled with clay MUCK. Any branches or TREES that the cutter hits come out pretty well masticated. I was trying to make the point that I do not believe the bills would have been able to remain in stacks.. just from the forces of being ground up by that cutter head and then subjected to the intense hydraulic activity of the pumps and then washing down hundreds of yards of pipe to the out wash basin on shore where they deposit the spoil...'
This statement makes a lot of sense. And I agree with Amazon's idea (sheer simple genius) of having a dredge attempt to pull control samples from the bottom of the Columbia and spit out the results to see if she's right. I think Georger and MeyerLouie are afraid of such a test, because if the bills come out shredded, this would disallow any idea the bill packets were dredged to the spot they were found. I suggested some controls for Amazon's experiment: Three pulls for the dredge. First pull, full bag of facsimilie money packets in as identical bag to the original as possible. Second pull, just the loose packets in a group. Third pull, three packets alone.
Georger and MeyerLouie: The last time I suggested that samples of the bills be sent to a higher education facility to be analyzed by people having the right equipement to do so...at least ONE of you pooh-poohed that idea. Georger actually made jokes about it. This only proves that you judge ideas not on their CONTENT, but on WHO suggests the idea.
Now you are coming back now with basically the same idea, although you never stated WHO should do the analyzing. If you are speaking about investigating the idea of foreign material or microbes embedded within the cotton fibers of the paper, you are going to need more than a Dr. Johnny Toy Microscope to do so. This means an establishment geared for this sort of thing.
That would be a VERY expensive set of tests. Dredge time comes dearly with a LOT of people getting paid VERY WELL to do their part.
Its more of me saying that money did NOT get there by the Dredge Oregon owned by the Port of Portland that I have seen on the river since I first arrived in the area in the 1970's.( and no it did not get there by clamshell dredging either.)
georger 244
QuoteQuoteAn even bigger problem than 'can money pass
through a dredge', is the issue of how Cooper artifacts
would have become part of the bottom sediment,
between specific mile markers, to be deposited on
Tena Bar in the first place?
Tosaw used divers and Columbia river salvage experts
to try and address that issue.
Georger explain that statement in more detail - please! I read Tosaw's book but it has been a long time - perhaps I should dig it out and study it some more.
We are told the only dredging material applied to T_Bar 1971-1980 came from bottom sediments between mile markers Y and Z, between 8/19-8/25 1974.
How would Cooper artifacts become part of the bottom
sediment, in that location, to be collected by dredging
at all? For one thing we aren't talking about heavy
objects that would settle to the bottom quickly near
their point of entry.
georger 244
Georger and MeyerLouie: The last time I suggested that samples of the bills be sent to a higher education facility to be analyzed by people having the right equipement to do so...at least ONE of you pooh-poohed that idea. Georger actually made jokes about it. This only proves that you judge ideas not on their CONTENT, but on WHO suggests the idea.
Now you are coming back now with basically the same idea, although you never stated WHO should do the analyzing. If you are speaking about investigating the idea of foreign material or microbes embedded within the cotton fibers of the paper, you are going to need more than a Dr. Johnny Toy Microscope to do so. This means an establishment geared for this sort of thing.
On the Flooding in Washington State: If they wouldn't clear cut all the trees...they wouldn't have so much flooding. The natural process during heavy rains is for the water to be caught in the tree canopy and be released to the ground slowly over a period of time. When all the trees are gone, the water simply rushes down the hillsides into the creeks, and floods out the rivers below. I've seen this process happen up here for decades and wrote a two-part article about it in 2007.
Yepper, Sailor! Well then, I think we should suspend
all discussion about the Cooper money until you have
had time to do your (welfare financed) dredge tests,
and your parachute and Cooper money tests by
Carnagie-Mellon ... with ONLY you and the people you
select allowed to mention, or enter in discussion, of
these matters ... until YOU say its permissible ?
Roses 're red and violets 're purple and sugar's sweet and so is maple syrple
Well I'm seventh out of seven sons My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun
Dang me dang me they oughta take a rope and hang me
High from the highest tree woman would you weep for me?
Who did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up!
Now you are coming back now with basically the same idea, although you never stated WHO should do the analyzing. If you are speaking about investigating the idea of foreign material or microbes embedded within the cotton fibers of the paper, you are going to need more than a Dr. Johnny Toy Microscope to do so. This means an establishment geared for this sort of thing.
On the Flooding in Washington State: If they wouldn't clear cut all the trees...they wouldn't have so much flooding. The natural process during heavy rains is for the water to be caught in the tree canopy and be released to the ground slowly over a period of time. When all the trees are gone, the water simply rushes down the hillsides into the creeks, and floods out the rivers below. I've seen this process happen up here for decades and wrote a two-part article about it in 2007.
Yepper, Sailor! Well then, I think we should suspend
all discussion about the Cooper money until you have
had time to do your (welfare financed) dredge tests,
and your parachute and Cooper money tests by
Carnagie-Mellon ... with ONLY you and the people you
select allowed to mention, or enter in discussion, of
these matters ... until YOU say its permissible ?
Roses 're red and violets 're purple and sugar's sweet and so is maple syrple
Well I'm seventh out of seven sons My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun
Dang me dang me they oughta take a rope and hang me
High from the highest tree woman would you weep for me?
Who did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up!
Amazon 7
QuoteThe main purpose of the experiment might be what would happen to the three groups of items, should they be passed through a dredger. You might be able to do it reletively cheaply (less than an hour's time) by having it done right at the dock. Put the three items underwater close enough to the shore so they don't immediately wash away. Suck up one, then the second, then the last one. Not a perfect experiment, but not bad. I would pile some sand on each group to temporarily hold them in place. With such a limited dredge, you could probably just pump the results right there on the nearest beach where the dredge is normally parked.
My money goes on the idea that what you'll get is a big, ground-up mess of shredded green paper. In three little piles, one pile with some pieces of bank bag included.
Nope... by the time it moved thru several hundred yards of pipe it would just be diffused completely and completely unrecognizable. Saturated paper subjected to those forces...
***
QuoteQuoteSince I know little to nothing about - the river or dredging, there is little I could interject.
I do have a QUESTION and WANT more than one answer.
Duane was talking to the head of the company by the name of McMillan, Duane asked how badly the flood had hurt him and he was still having to use the ferry over. Mac as he was often referred to, in the Conversation with Duane commented about Duane's extensive knowledge of the area. Duane mentioned he spent some time there and that is about how it was worded...bare minimun.
When was it?
Perhaps individuals with knowledge of the case and the river conditions from 1971 to 1980 - would participate in the discussion while the rest of us sit out and only ask questions. Our questions have to be specific and not argumentive. If the case was discussed in segments and stayed on topic without dragging jibberish into it - progress could be made.
Could we try this for about 30 posts and see what happens. This thread is a good tool if used properly. Those who know geologist, hydrologist, dredgers and other who do NOT come here because of the stigma and chaos, to make some posting about their knowledge....and/or some of you could go out and talk to the people or give them a call.
A lot of seniors would jump at a chance to voice their knowledge of the River during those yrs!
Talk to Senior centers in VanCouver and Battleground and engage the seniors born and raised there to discuss this. DO NOT TELL why you are there - just want personal accounting of the floods prior to 1980 for historical purposes. Some will have pictures they made. Do not mention D.B.Cooper.
Meyer lives in WA and he is an educator - maybe he could find some time to visit a Senior meeting in Vancouver and let them know ahead of time the discussion will be about the Columbia and the floods prior to 1980....that he wants to learn the history and to record it according eyewitness accounts.
Perhaps a library is a good place to have a meeting or the local senior luncheon most of them have every week.
Put some HISTORY into this WATER thing backed up with testimonies from the residents.
If I had the money I would have testimonies recorded (visual and verbal). Remember I went to Senior Centers on my trip - I felt it the best way to connect with Senior in the area. Like the 2 brothers in The Dalles who looked at picture of Duane and said he worked at a bar (one Duane had mentioned to me), but one whose name I had forgotten....and a name I can't even remember right now (I can't blame it on the dump blonde syndrome - just on old age).
If I had the money I would go from center to center asking Senior to tell what they know about the River prior to 1980 - for historical purposes. Most seniors do not read the board post - but during their luncheon have some one let them know a team wants their stories and pictures about the floods before - 1980. There are LOTS of ways to do this without mentioning Cooper.
Jo, Quit trying to distract the thread! Having tea with a lot of Senior Citizens is not going to produce anything meaningful! You are a Senior Citizen and should know that!
In fact, all you have to do is check the Columbia River water levels for the late 1970s to answer legitmate questions. And the water level information is online.
Robert99 (also a Senior Citizen)
YOU ARE RUDE IN YOUR REPLIES TO ME NO MATTER HOW NICE I AM. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THIS POST THAT DESERVED THE ANSWER YOU GAVE ABOVE. My suggest was honest and it would produce witnesses to the flood and pictures of the areas. IF you don't like my POSTS then DON't REPLY just ignore it and move on. NO reason to be RUDE when I am trying to be nice!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteGeorger says in part:
Quote'Yepper, Sailor! Well then, I think we should suspend all discussion about the Cooper money until you have had time to do your (welfare financed) dredge tests, and your parachute and Cooper money tests by Carnagie-Mellon ... with ONLY you and the people you select allowed to mention, or enter in discussion, of these matters ... until YOU say its permissible ?
Roses 're red and violets 're purple and sugar's sweet and so is maple syrple
Well I'm seventh out of seven sons My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun
Dang me dang me they oughta take a rope and hang me
High from the highest tree woman would you weep for me?
Who did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up!...'
On your last question there...as if I would trust you with that information? Or even put it on a public forum? You're kidding, right? Besides, now that I find that this report could be restricted, and it might not be legal for me to possess it, I suddenly don't see it on the alternate computer anymore. Maybe it was never there at all. Yeah, that's it. It was never there, and I never printed up a hard copy to examine.
You're doing the Drama Queen thing again, IMHO. I never said you couldn't discuss anything. And yes...Carnegie-Mellon was one of the universities I suggested for outside analysis of the Amboy chute and money samples. Your point was? Oh, yeah...I was the one who suggested it. I forgot that with you this is a non-starter.
The reason I supported Amazon's idea on the Dredging Test is because there has been endless discussion and research on the dredging theory. And such a test could put the lie to that theory once and for all.
This leaves only three other possibilities. Fell from the sky and landed there, or very close. Fell from the sky and washed down to location it was found. Human intervention.
Select those you want on this thread and the
rest should vanish!
YOU ARE NOW IN CHARGE -
No more debates...
Publish your list of your chosen participants.
I have better things to do -
Quote
We are told the only dredging material applied to T_Bar 1971-1980 came from bottom sediments between mile markers Y and Z, between 8/19-8/25 1974.
How would Cooper artifacts become part of the bottom
sediment, in that location, to be collected by dredging
at all? For one thing we aren't talking about heavy
objects that would settle to the bottom quickly near
their point of entry.
How CERTAIN are you the Cooper artifacts came from the bottom sediment. Is there NOT another explanation for the sediment - such as burial prior to 1979 in another location....and then placed on the beach. Perhaps buried near water with that same sedimentation. If the sedimentation could be ID'd then perhaps some other answers might surface.
So you are saying that between the markers - analysist can ID the sedimentation and it exists no where else? What about other areas from which the sedimentation came from - the sedimentation had a source. Where is the source? Perhaps an Island - can't remember the name of the island where there was a ferry and a truck and camper that was found in the water right after the skyjacking.
The truck was not missed until the owner returned from a Thanksgiving visit. There used to be a ferry there to carry the workers to the island. Could the sedimentation have come from that far away?
Stupid woman question?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteThe main purpose of the experiment might be what would happen to the three groups of items, should they be passed through a dredger. You might be able to do it reletively cheaply (less than an hour's time) by having it done right at the dock. Put the three items underwater close enough to the shore so they don't immediately wash away. Suck up one, then the second, then the last one. Not a perfect experiment, but not bad. I would pile some sand on each group to temporarily hold them in place. With such a limited dredge, you could probably just pump the results right there on the nearest beach where the dredge is normally parked.
My money goes on the idea that what you'll get is a big, ground-up mess of shredded green paper. In three little piles, one pile with some pieces of bank bag included.
Nope... by the time it moved thru several hundred yards of pipe it would just be diffused completely and completely unrecognizable. Saturated paper subjected to those forces...
Blevins, Amazon has now told you at least three times that the the dredging tests you propose are completely unnecessary. She has lived on her boat on the Columbia, including just about a quarter mile from where the money was found at Tena Bar, for many years and has been an eye witness to the results of dredging operations.
When Amazon says, that based on her experience, the condition of the money found at Tena Bar indicates it did not get there by dredging, then the case is closed. What is there that you do not understand about this?
Also, why are you so fixated on C-M University?
Robert99
Robert99 50
QuoteIf you willing to simply take Amazon's word that dredging is absolutely out, then fine. Personally, I don't believe it was as a result of dredging either. But the only way you will convince some people is through a controlled test.
Blevins,
I'll take Amazon's word at face value.
If you don't believe it was a result of dredging either, just who are you trying to convince and why?
Robert99
georger 244
"The Hunt for DB Cooper"
©
2011
Bruce A. Smith
©
2011
Bruce A. Smith
Smith: you have a PM.
Your regular email is not working.
georger 244
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you willing to simply take Amazon's word that dredging is absolutely out, then fine. Personally, I don't believe it was as a result of dredging either. But the only way you will convince some people is through a controlled test.
Blevins,
I'll take Amazon's word at face value.
If you don't believe it was a result of dredging either, just who are you trying to convince and why?
Robert99
Convince of what? It's almost like some people around here are afraid of outside research. Maybe their pet theories will be destroyed, ones they've followed for years. I'm not afraid of the truth, no matter where it leads, or whether or not it leads to KC being the hijacker, for example. You can't be right about something simply by saying you are.
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case except discovering the truth, and that includes the mystery of how exactly that money came to Tena Bar. Sure, I'm willing to take Amazon's word on the non-dredging possibility. But that doesn't take away the fact that major investigation and theories have been discussed on the dredging issue, and that it has supporters even now. There are countless posts and pictures posted here about it. Different people have gone into the field at Tena Bar and researched it. I thought the idea of an actual dredging test was a solid suggestion. If you can't prove a point, then the best bet is to at least eliminate the possibilities. The fewer possibilities, the closer you may get to the actual truth.
Let's get down to basics here. We all know there are only three realistic possibilities concerning the money. First, dredging. Second, washed up on shore or dropped from sky, maybe combined. Third, human hands.
By eliminating dredging once and for all, we can narrow the possibilities down to two items. And then it might be possible to eliminate one of those remaining through outside research. This, in my opinion, would be a really big deal because then the Tena Bar money would tell us something about the hijacker. Like...we should continue looking for the body or other physical evidence...or perhaps he got away with it and tossed a red herring out for the FBI. Right now, there are just too many questions and some are tricky to answer. So maybe you go for the ones you might be able to answer, to narrow the list a bit.
"The most important single ingredient in the formula of success is knowing how to get along with people..."
"The most important single ingredient in the formula of success is knowing how to get along with people..."
Teddy Roosevelt
"The most important single ingredient in the formula of success is knowing how to get along with people..."
Teddy Roosevelt
"The most important single ingredient in the formula of success is knowing how to get along with people..."
Teddy Roosevelt
Teddy Roosevelt
Play it again Sam ... unfortunately for Mankind, you
will.
"The most important single ingredient in the formula of success is knowing how to get along with people..."
Teddy Roosevelt
georger 244
QuoteSure. Whatever you say.
Reading my own post twice, and my own signature even more times is REALLY weird. You know that, right? Better run back and fix that...
*Cue proper music here*
Georger says in part earlier today:Quote'I have better things to do...' (than post here)
Don't make promises you can't keep. And whether these latest things are 'better' from you is a matter of opinion. I'm always interested in what you have to say, but you keep confusing personalities with the case at hand.
always has a comeback -
play it again and again and again Sam.
You're a man with a mission. The only "personality"
here is YOU.
Your claim to having the Palmer Report has gone viral in the Cooper community. Was that just another lie?
You really need to back off and let people discuss
here freely, for a change, without your constant interference and smartass remarks - try it - you might like the results ...
Amazon 7
I should get back to my basics about making smartass remarks.
Hey all...this is an old friend of mine...you just might enjoy this tune...Cooper related...maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-03HJY0CHk
hangdiver
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-03HJY0CHk
hangdiver
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
sailshaw 0
GEORGER:
You say:
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case except discovering the truth, and that includes the mystery of how exactly that money came to Tena Bar. Sure, I'm willing to take Amazon's word on the non-dredging possibility. But that doesn't take away the fact that major investigation and theories have been discussed on the dredging issue, and that it has supporters even now. There are countless posts and pictures posted here about it. Different people have gone into the field at Tena Bar and researched it. I thought the idea of an actual dredging test was a solid suggestion. If you can't prove a point, then the best bet is to at least eliminate the possibilities. The fewer possibilities, the closer you may get to the actual truth.
Could we all agree to call it Tina's Bar as it is in the FBI web page and not Tena's Bar. It was not named after Tena Mucklow
Also, could we put some importance in getting the FBI to retrieve the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers after the NORJACK caper by D.B. Cooper. If the DNA matches what they have on Sheridan Peterson, the case is blown wide open and Sheridan has no "perfect alibi" to hide behind This truly is the "smoking gun" and the last evidence the FBI has that they haven't looked at. Why haven't the envelopes been tested for DNA. The FBI have had now over a year to do it. Why are they not doing it?
1) Hiding the info that Sheridan was CIA or FBI?
2) Not smart enough - They have college degrees and are Lawyers.
3) Being told to just drop it as it has been over 40 years. The FBI always gets their man no matter how long it takes, right?
4) What other excuses do they have?
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
You say:
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case except discovering the truth, and that includes the mystery of how exactly that money came to Tena Bar. Sure, I'm willing to take Amazon's word on the non-dredging possibility. But that doesn't take away the fact that major investigation and theories have been discussed on the dredging issue, and that it has supporters even now. There are countless posts and pictures posted here about it. Different people have gone into the field at Tena Bar and researched it. I thought the idea of an actual dredging test was a solid suggestion. If you can't prove a point, then the best bet is to at least eliminate the possibilities. The fewer possibilities, the closer you may get to the actual truth.
Could we all agree to call it Tina's Bar as it is in the FBI web page and not Tena's Bar. It was not named after Tena Mucklow
Also, could we put some importance in getting the FBI to retrieve the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers after the NORJACK caper by D.B. Cooper. If the DNA matches what they have on Sheridan Peterson, the case is blown wide open and Sheridan has no "perfect alibi" to hide behind This truly is the "smoking gun" and the last evidence the FBI has that they haven't looked at. Why haven't the envelopes been tested for DNA. The FBI have had now over a year to do it. Why are they not doing it?
1) Hiding the info that Sheridan was CIA or FBI?
2) Not smart enough - They have college degrees and are Lawyers.
3) Being told to just drop it as it has been over 40 years. The FBI always gets their man no matter how long it takes, right?
4) What other excuses do they have?
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
MeyerLouie
One nice thing about cotton fibres (in paper money) ...
they have a twist and when they swell they make neat
little cavities for holding things like sand, bacteria,
etc... cozy little environments for thingies ...
I was a working member of the science team for a
time and shared in the results ... just in case Blevins
has lost complete track of reality.