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Robert99 50
The only time I got into trouble out and about on my own fault was the Ozette Island thing, when I caught the tide wrong. I was trying to cross over to Ozette Island from the shore and I knew better than to try that in the late afternoon.
Three days later...washed up miles south of where I started. You start making promises to God and stuff.
Anyway, I'm still wondering about this supposed quote from Rataczak from that 1996 San Francisco Chronicle article. The author is now the car blogger or something for the Chronicle. Anyway, THIS quote:'By 7:45 p.m., a light on the airplane's dashboard indicated that Cooper, alone in the cabin, had lowered the rear stairwell. But the wind kept bouncing the ramp back up, so Rataczak increased the flaps to 30 degrees, slowing the plane to under 170 miles an hour...'
Author quotes Rataczak extensively, so I have to assume he actually interviewed him, probably by phone. The reason I think this quote is important is because of the alleged speed of the aircraft at the time of the jump. Did Rataczak REALLY manage to get the 727 below 170mph? Or is this just another Cooper Media Fable?
Blevins, Read the radio transcripts and you will see what actually happened. The aircraft had been airborn from Seattle for less than 10 minutes and Cooper could NOT get the stairs down. So Rataczak slowed the aircraft well below 170 knots, leveled off at 7000 feet, and then Cooper was able to get the stairs moving down.
You seem to feel that 170 MPH was slow for the 727. Perhaps 377 can find the minimum speed in one of his manuals for the aircraft at 7,000 feet ASL standard atmosphere, flaps at 30 degees, leading edge devices deployed, and somewhat close to maximum gross weight. The aircraft had a full load of fuel, or close to it, five passengers, and whatever cargo and luggage it had on the flight from Portland to Seattle.
There is nothing mysterious about the 170 MPH figure. But the reporter in question seems to be unfamiliar with aircraft operations.
Robert99
There is nothing mysterious about the 170 MPH figure. The reporter in question seems to be unfamiliar with aircraft operations.
Robert99
Writers are writers - they take liberties! Blevins should know this, because he is a writer! The man who wrote the article was a NEWPAPER Journalist.
When Margie Boule did her article ON Weber, I criticized her about certain errors she made. News articles have to interest the public and the writers take certain Liberties! I was not happy about the OBVIOUS errors as we exchanged information via email and phone. All in All her article was fair....but inaccurate on some minor details. I have my emails and her emails in black and white acknowledging the errors if they ever come into play or affect the over-all results.
The pilot did slow the plane down - because he wanted Cooper to leave the damn plane! There was a point on the ground that 4 individuals heard what seemed to be a plane in trouble. They did NOT see the plane - one claimed to have been able to see a shadow thru the cloud movement, but the "experts" on all of this said NO. We all know there was a breaking of the cloud formation - and the person saw what they saw and their explanation has to do...we didn't walk around in those days with a camera glued to our hand.
The witnesses on the ground thought it was a plane in trouble, but another party told me it could very well have sounded like that to someone on the ground. The example given to me was changing gears manually on a car in movement. You would feel and hear it. I presume he was talking about manual transmissions.
The pilot was given permission to do what he thought was necessary - so if the pilot knew the capabilities of the aircraft - and changed flap positions again - the plane could have lost altitude and changing the flap could have created the different sounds on the ground...at that one point....with the rain cover - trapping sounds down.
They were used to hearing planes - but this time it was a different sound and lower!
This was never discussed with the co-pilot by me - now I sure as hell would love to talk to him again. Would be nice to have a pilot on a 3 way conversation because I do not know chutes or planes. Robert99 - you are supposedly a pilot right? If the flap where change at a low attitude would the individuals on the ground note a sound - as being different than normally what they had experience on the ground?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
727 power reductions, flap position changes, gear extension... all can be heard under the right conditions but none sound "like a plane in trouble".
F106 interceptors were very loud single engine (J75-17) turbojet aircraft. If they were heard circling or making power changes they'd sound different than a 727 and might be more likely to have been noticed. I believe that the Cooper 727 had JT8D-7 turbofan engines which have a higher bypass ratio than turbojets and sound less "harsh".
Someone hearing an F106 and thinking the sound was coming from an airliner might think it sounded "wrong" and conclude that the unseen aircraft was "in trouble".
377
F106 interceptors were very loud single engine (J75-17) turbojet aircraft. If they were heard circling or making power changes they'd sound different than a 727 and might be more likely to have been noticed. I believe that the Cooper 727 had JT8D-7 turbofan engines which have a higher bypass ratio than turbojets and sound less "harsh".
Someone hearing an F106 and thinking the sound was coming from an airliner might think it sounded "wrong" and conclude that the unseen aircraft was "in trouble".
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
I directed my post to pilots not U.
U are NOT qualified to answer the question. This is what I mean - you HINDER progress and you need to qualify any answers U provide to specific questions - but NO you speak as though U are the person or persons to whom the post was directed at.
I have heard Dona's story, but there are 7 other witnesses involved regarding my post. Who they are is NO ones business. All of them contacted the FBI in 1971 and were interviewed. I have personally spoke with all living witnesses I am referrring to. Another may not be around to see resolutions coming down.
377:
The sound I am talking about was the skyjacked Boeing. I was asking if the flap change would have may the plane sound closer and louder. The parties are very aware of the search planes and know what they sound like - this was a passenger plane and it was low and it sounded different than other pass-overs they had experience in the past. Granted the other flights were probably at a higher altitude - so I take that fact into consideration.
Just a simple question from a simple woman who knows little about planes. I do not doubt these individual heard the 727 and their stories all of these yrs have been consistent.
Remember I lived across the Express Way on the perimenter of the Atlanta Airport from 1973 until 1977. I worked in the area.
I heard planes taking off all of the time - but never heard the sound described to me by a man at one location and by 2 women at another location not too far apart. All of the individuals contacted the FBI. Both setting describe the same sound to me.
Two of these individuals KNOW what the small search planes sound like - like myself have lived near military bases.
Again I have repeated this question in the past and got some off the wall answers, but NOT an answer to the specific question. Does the sound of the plane change with flap designations and at low speeds not to mention a lower altitude because I have NO idea if the sound has anything to do with altitude.
I am working with witness accounts -and over the yrs these individuals have been consistent.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99
You are supposedly a pilot right? If the flap where change at a low attitude would the individuals on the ground note a sound - as being different than normally what they had experience on the ground?
Asked this question and was bombarded by none other than Blevins with "his" opinions.
This question is for pilots in this thread and those who know the Boeing 727's or mechanics who worked on them and/or engineers. I did not direct my question to Blevins. The question is not one I would ask of a writer whose genre is fiction.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
I have been trying to give that advice to the people here for quite a while.. in THIS FORUM..
a certain other forum..... well the clueless moronic needle dicks deserve everything they have coming to them.
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