DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

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I think your main problem is guessing, you take a crack at something and
stick to it, like the stairs. you claim that KC might be Cooper, but feel the need
to tell us over and over as if you have solid proof KC is Cooper.

parts of the film is staged, when the actor is on the stairs (close up)
the jump was clearly done! as far as I know, nobody has recreated
the jump by night, or at the speed 305 was at. Robert99 believes the
plane was going slower than 305.

did you even notice the stuntman went down the stairs backwards?

305 had a wind load on the stairs, this could stop it from extending
fully.....not enough weight....that's a guess....

Blevins should note that the stairs in the Treat Williams movie did not rebound all the way up. This strongly indicates that the aircraft was going quite a bit slower than NWA 305.

In the FBI tests using the NWA 305 aircraft and flight crew, when the sled was released, the stairs rebounded giving the same indication of a "pressure bump" that the flight crew had noticed during the hijacking. This indicates that the aircraft was going about the same airspeed as in the Cooper jump, that the stairs had been deflected downwards about the same as in the Cooper jump, etc.. There are pictures available somewhere on these FBI tests.

I'm not aware of any sources giving the exact airspeed in the FBI tests when the jumper walked down to the bottom step. He walked back up the stairs and didn't jump.

All of the above has been discussed endlessly on this thread before. And no doubt it will be back in another couple of months.

Robert99

I just got off the phone with Greg Gasson, for those who don't know who he is.
Greg Gasson - Aerial DP / Coordinator / Stuntman / World Champion Camera-flyer

I had him view the beginning of "The Pursuit Of DB Cooper"
he agree's that the jump was real and parts were staged just
as I assumed! (the actor close up shot)

that's how you check things!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

Greg just called me back with this information....

The pictures are from the March, 1981, Parachutist, which says the three photographers were Kevin Donnelly, Carl Boenish, and Ray Cottingham.
The jumper in the exit shot is identified as Jerry Meyers, wearing (according to Donnelly) a "Security Maxi-pig" with a chest-mount container, supposedly the money pouch.
Other jumpers participating in the shoot were identified as Dean Westgaard and Bill Edwards.
It's a mystery to me why none of these people are identified on IMDb, nor do the IMDb pages for Boenish, Cottingham and Donnelly reflect any participation in this movie.
It's not clear where this was shot. The Parachutist story describes how Kevin nearly fell out accidentally while spotting when "...the plane was over Yosemite Park, some 20 miles from their target area."
Could it be there was another set of shots, and this one was not used? Is this another DB mystery?
I expect to see Kevin at the reunion in Raeford in May and will ask him.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

I must officially rescind my offer to duplicate the Cooper Jump for stupid amounts of money using the same equipment and the same weather and time of day. I just took possession of my prescription for Metoprol and Nitrostat... I wonder if I can make some of that shit explode.

[Amazon 7]

Hey .. I know that guy... jumped with him... He has video of me when I fist started speeddiving getting ALL kinds of unstable.... UGLY video...

[mrshutter45 21]

Greg is who you are talking about I gather, yes very cool guy.
he went the extra mile and called me back with more info.

said he filmed the sonic commercial for the Superbowl.......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

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Greg is who you are talking about I gather, yes very cool guy.
he went the extra mile and called me back with more info.

said he filmed the sonic commercial for the Superbowl.......

Yeah.. and he was nice enough not to post my video in the Bent Prop... no matter how entertaining it might have been during the DropZone Dot Com Holiday Boogie in 2003

[mrshutter45 21]

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Greg is who you are talking about I gather, yes very cool guy.
he went the extra mile and called me back with more info.

said he filmed the sonic commercial for the Superbowl.......

Yeah.. and he was nice enough not to post my video in the Bent Prop... no matter how entertaining it might have been during the DropZone Dot Com Holiday Boogie in 2003

perhaps I should call him back and see if he still has the footage.....just kidding

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

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My thinking, after studying the ten minute video start of the Treat Williams film, is this:

1) Early shot, jet flying along, mountain background, wheels coming down, airstairs opening, etc. is an animation background, or a stock footage shot with a model representing the jet. No big deal here. Until CGI came along this would have been the way to do it.

2) The shot of Treat Williams standing on the airstairs was done on a soundstage with a big fan blowing.

3) Any long shots of a jumper on steps, if it shows the actual jump, or the entire jet, was probably faked.

4) Shots of the hijacker in freefall are real. Background is live.

5) Shot of the hijacker coming down into trees is tough to tell. Might be a dummy on a chute, or else the stuntman has guts. I wondered how the camera crew knew exactly where to set up for the shot, since they were in perfect position and the jumper is using a round. I think Treat Williams' minor comments when he hits the tree were dubbed in later by the sound guys.

It's not the best video at 240p, so some stuff is hard to tell.

Robert, did you read my postings above yours? I hardly think
they would only film the jump from a distance. the only part I
see that is staged is the part with the actor (close up) who do
I believe, you or Greg Gasson???????????????????????

added: "The jumper in the exit shot is identified as Jerry Meyers, wearing (according to Donnelly) a "Security Maxi-pig" with a chest-mount container, supposedly the money pouch."

why would they go to this extreme if they only got a distant shot? you sure can wear a person out!!!!!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

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Cooper Jumped before the plane crossed the First Standard Parallel. Where the winds took him I do not know - one thing is very certain he did NOT land in the Columbia and had exited the plane LONG before that.

Before and After Cooper hit the ground he needed to orient himself - this meant watching for the land signals (whatever he could see on that night). One thing would be the lights on the Dam and any other signal lights such as a Signal light near Yacolt Mtn Rd off of Kelly road. If Cooper had anything to do with the structuring of these Signal lights he knew the locations. He also knew were every airstip was.

If one knew where the signal towers where it was EASY to find the rails.

Just saying - Just Jo Rambling!

There was an airstrip just below Lake Merwin off of 419 and NE 266 PL. The next airstip was at Fargher - a private airstip off of 503.

These landmarks create a triangle. A road called Lucia Falls Rd is just north of Heison. Know this area and the RAILS become an escape route.

Take the triangle and it becomes a Marquis Diamond with the location of the VOR off of Meadow Glade. There is another landing stip just north of the VOR, but I do not know if it was there in 1971.

Was just a curiosity the way the airstrip added up with the signal light being on the Eastward part of this marquis. Even stranger is that these places are all places Duane took me to.

Duane loved Marquis diamonds!

My trip in 2010 showed me that time and space were NOT part of my memory, but the places are part of my memory. Wish I had been able to relate all of this to Sluggo, but I kept insisting they were closer. The memory is an amazing thing. We could never possible remember time and space and wish some one had pointed that out to me yrs ago.

Just reposting this to let U guys know I am still around, but do NOT horn in on the technical STUFF! Like Blevins running his mouth about things he has NO knowledge of.

I did make the above post to let U guys know What I was talking about - time and space in my memory banks....as it might be relevant eventually.

What I know about the subject U guys are discussing is WAY over my pea brain.

Have had some interesting developments, regarding Duane Weber and 1976 (nothing that could put him on the plane in 1971). Nothing I wish to discuss at this time because it could be totally irrelavant and I know nothing about the source.

Putting Weber in WA in 1976 does NOT put him on the plane in 1971, but it was interesting to say the least. I was actually able to pull his old tax reports and it could be likely, but a business expense written off is just that and no way to know what it was for....the back-up papers are long gone now.

Georger: When you make references to Blevins - HOW about leaving me out of it. I am not in his category at all. I have not written a book about someone I never knew and I have not tried to put words in the mouth of people who knew Duane. Nor do I HORN in on technical discussions I know NOTHING about.

I do ask questions if it there something that might be relevant (things I need clarification on) and you guys usually provide an answer I can then understand.

Hate it when Blevins TRIES to provide his opinions about what I say or state regarding what I have been told or have told...and what you guys are discussing....it is very disruptive and takes away from the project U guys are working on.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

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Shutter says:

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'Robert, did you read my postings above yours? I hardly think they would only film the jump from a distance. the only part I see that is staged is the part with the actor (close up) who do I believe, you or Greg Gasson???????????????????????'

Yes, I did read your previous posts. Do you think they actually jumped from a jet? You said a plane in the Yosemite area. Any long shots that include a jet, showing the actual jump, would require a second jet alongside to do the shot. The opening sequence is obviously a model with either a stock footage background or a created background. So we know that jet wasn't real. Ask your friend which jet with airstairs he actually jumped from. I think the answer has to be 'it was a plane'. It wasn't a REAL high-budget film at 12 million.

I give up Robert, you are right and Greg Gasson - Aerial DP / Coordinator / Stuntman / World Champion Camera-flyer
is totally wrong. I will direct all of my future questions to you, you know it all......thanks a bunch.

P.S. The film was made in the 80's, way before the money hungry fools in Holywood today!!! 30+ years ago....

while we are at it, could you tell me how you came to this conclusion?
do you have a baseline, or data to come to your conclusions? what
exactly is your background in special effects?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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Shutter says:

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'Robert, did you read my postings above yours? I hardly think they would only film the jump from a distance. the only part I see that is staged is the part with the actor (close up) who do I believe, you or Greg Gasson???????????????????????'

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Yes, I did read your previous posts. Do you think they actually jumped from a jet? You said a plane in the Yosemite area. Any long shots that include a jet, showing the actual jump, would require a second jet alongside to do the shot. The opening sequence is obviously a model with either a stock footage background or a created background. So we know that jet wasn't real. Ask your friend which jet with airstairs he actually jumped from. I think the answer has to be 'it was a plane'. It wasn't a REAL high-budget film at 12 million.

I give up Robert, you are right and Greg Gasson - Aerial DP / Coordinator / Stuntman / World Champion Camera-flyer
is totally wrong. I will direct all of my future questions to you, you know it all......thanks a bunch.

P.S. The film was made in the 80's, way before the money hungry fools in Holywood today!!! 30+ years ago....

while we are at it, could you tell me how you came to this conclusion?
do you have a baseline, or data to come to your conclusions? what
exactly is your background in special effects?

Have you seen this thread? - have to scroll down the page for the three pictures. Cools pics. I don't have time to repost them.......

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3526534#3526534

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Did you know Treat Williams is a pilot too....

http://www.drawger.com/neubecker/?article_id=10550

Excerpt:
When we got home, Treat took me flying in his T-6 Texan, a World War II combat trainer. We did loops, rolls and other aerobatics so I could get a feel for it. You sit on your parachute as a cushion and get the drill on how to pop the canopy and bail out if things go south. Throwing up is considered bad form. We buzzed the Wasatch Mountains so close you felt like you could reach out and touch the peaks.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

it appears that the jumper was a lot further up the steps....

that is the page Greg sent me.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"I'm not aware of any sources giving the exact airspeed in the FBI tests when the jumper walked down to the bottom step. He walked back up the stairs and didn't jump. "

I think you are talking about this man?


http://www.thepilot.com/news/2011/sep/07/local-man-tried-to-help-solve-famous-skyjacking/

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, the only one disagreeing is you.....
where did I put words into your mouth?

I have had a expert opinion about the opening scene.
he said this was not animated! I can't take your word
over someone with these qualifications.

Greg Gasson - Aerial DP / Coordinator / Stuntman / World Champion Camera-flyer


Greg Gasson

Affiliations
Abilities
Education

SAG
Skydiving
Bachelor of Science

Aerial Stunt Service
Snowboarding
Computational Mathematics

imdb.com
Rock Climbing
Arizona State University

Scuba diving

Ratings
Waterskiing

FAA Master Rigger
Shooting

USPA PRO Rating
Wire Work
Scuba Certified PADI

Stats:
7000+ skydives
100+ BASE jumps
28 years experience

Films Commercials Television
Tandem (2012) GM - Chevy Sonic Top Gear Korea
The Law of Attraction (2011) Viasat Dual Survival - Split Up Episode 1.7 (2010)
Viento en contra (2011) Cheez It Time Warp - Blades and Volts Episode 2.1 (2009)
Management (2008) GM - Opel Zafira Epic Conditions - Warren Miller Films (2007)
Final Approach (2007) Samsung Stunt Junkies - Plane to Plane Episode
Don (2006) Miller Lite Ripley's "Believe it or not"
Green Light (2005) Converse Dateline - Picture of the Week
Nescafe Extreme Machine - Discovery Wings
Special Projects Durban Muscle Ranking - Tokyo Broadcasting
ARRI - Skydiving Showreel for NAB 2007 Intel How 'bout that?
ARRI - 8R Showreel for NAB 2007 AXN TV
ARRI - 235 Adventures Showreel for IBC 2007 Skydiving Documentaries Eurosport
ARRI - 416 Showreel for IBC 2008 Good Stuff - "Chuteless" Jump Real TV
Kid Savant - "4 Years" - music video More Stuff - Plane to Plane Hard Copy
More Stuff - Plane to Plane X 3 That's Incredible
Photo Shoot Skydive USA II How'd They Do That? - TLC
Camel Active - 2004 Clothing Catalog On the Fun Side Ordinary / Extraordinary - LMNO TV
Good Stuff - Cars FOX After Breakfast - live freefall broadcast


Competitive Experience
2010 Skydive Arizona Freefly Money Meet Best Cameraflyer Award
2006 Skydive Arizona Freefly Money Meet Best Cameraflyer Award
2005 Skydive Arizona Freefly Money Meet Best Cameraflyer Award
2004 Skydive Arizona Freefly Money Meet Best Cameraflyer Award
2003 Skydive Arizona Freefly Money Meet Best Cameraflyer Award
2003 Lake Wales, Florida US National Skysurfing Championships 1st Place
2003 Lake Wales, Florida US National Freestyle Championships 3rd Place
2001 Akita, Japan World Games Freestyle Championships 3rd Place
1998 Elsinore, Califonia US National Freestyle Championships 1st Place
1998 Evora, Portugal World Cup Freestyle Championships 2nd Place
1997 Lahti, Finland World Games Freestyle Championships 1st Place
1996 Skydive Arizona US National Freestyle Championships 1st Place
1996 Efes, Turkey World Cup Freestyle Championships 1st Place
1995 Ampfing, Germany World Freestyle Championships 2nd Place

your other problem is thinking of today's technology, and not the 70's or 80's.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

" but not part of the filming."

have you ever heard of practice runs during stunts?
based on what I have found it appears the picture could
have been from routine practice run. it's rather normal
for someone from the crew taking pictures.

movie producer's will find a spot very similar in order to save
money moving the entire set to the real location.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWZj7ZopsA

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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" but not part of the filming."

have you ever heard of practice runs during stunts?
based on what I have found it appears the picture could
have been from routine practice run. it's rather normal
for someone from the crew taking pictures.

movie producer's will find a spot very similar in order to save
money moving the entire set to the real location.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWZj7ZopsA

Some more trivia about the set /location...scroll down to right below Robert Duval.
http://www.bloggernews.net/127763

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

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" but not part of the filming."

have you ever heard of practice runs during stunts?
based on what I have found it appears the picture could
have been from routine practice run. it's rather normal
for someone from the crew taking pictures.

movie producer's will find a spot very similar in order to save
money moving the entire set to the real location.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWZj7ZopsA

Some more trivia about the set /location...scroll down to right below Robert Duval.
http://www.bloggernews.net/127763

Filming locations for
The Pursuit of D.B. Cooper (1981)

Arizona, USA
Jackson, Wyoming, USA
Oregon, USA
Wyoming, USA

the opening scene is not listed on the location.

Historical Accuracy

The film is historically accurate in the sense that a man who called himself D.B. Cooper really did jump off the aft-stairs of a 727 with $200,000 in hand, but that is about the point in the film where accuracy ends. The film does not portray the raging storm on a wintry November night; the film has Cooper jump out on a bright, sunny day over a mountain range that looks more like Sierra Nevada than the Cascades. But it is clear the filmmakers were not attempting to take historical portrayal too seriously—an unseen narrator states, after setting up the jump, “what happened after that is anyone’s guess…” Nonetheless, the film treats the subject well and provides a believable (albeit fantasy) narrative to an unbelievable (but historical) epic mystery. One nit-picky point: can future depictions ALWAYS portray D.B. Cooper in his iconic black suit, please? This film has the Cooper character portrayed in brown business attire, which is particularly grating.

~Doug Kenck-Crispin

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 22]

Blevins wrote

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I don't know. I looked over that thread just mentioned back there, the one with the pictures. If they actually jumped from a jet as part of the film, I have to give it to them for guts.

What the stunt jumper should have charged the production company...wait for it...$200,000.

Amazon and I would have done it for free. I paid $100 to jump from the DC 9 jet.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

"I haven't seen Pursuit all the way through"

you are missing absolutely nothing, the truth stops right after the opening credits. kind of funny, but I'll never watch it again...

". If they actually jumped from a jet as part of the film, I have to give it to them for guts. "

that's exactly what stuntmen get paid for....guts! Dar Robinson was one of the best IMO.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

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Blevins wrote

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I don't know. I looked over that thread just mentioned back there, the one with the pictures. If they actually jumped from a jet as part of the film, I have to give it to them for guts.

What the stunt jumper should have charged the production company...wait for it...$200,000.

Amazon and I would have done it for free. I paid $100 to jump from the DC 9 jet.

377

The USAF paid me to jump from mostly jet aircraft for a few years

[georger 244]

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Ducking the question? The question was...how did I come to the idea on how exactly Cooper exited the aircraft? I have answered that one several times.

Let me ask a question: If the stairs only drop between 24 and 36 inches after they are opened in flight...then how do you begin to go down the stairs without tumbling to the bottom? That was the question I asked myself one day.

I don't believe the hijacker expected that to happen, unless he had jumped a 727 before. Now he's looking at a fairly narrow gap while wearing a chute and carrying a load. Sure, you could look at that and just lean over and try to get down the stairs. Maybe he did that. Or maybe he looked at that situation and turned around, making his way down backwards while holding onto the railing. Those stairs are going to drop, and I just figured it was safer to back down instead of going forward, maybe having the stairs take a sudden drop, and then its Hasta Lavista off the end for you.

No one really knows, of course. And whether he went forward or backward doesn't matter much. He wasn't there when they got to Reno, so he exited somehow.

What is SAGE radar? It's a radar system once very popular. Used bands less susceptible to solar disturbance. Might give you fifteen minutes to Duck and Cover if the Russians had decided to nuke us. DEW line stuff. Proves MIT really IS a school full of smart folks. Whatever...

and last but not least: What are Pancakes?

Would a pancake flop down the stairs of a 727 in
flight? How many pancakes would bring the stairs
down? How many pancakes could parachute off a 727
for $100 and survivor to appear on Leno?

Did Cooper mention pancakes? I'll bet we have an
expert on pancakes here!

[Robert99 50]

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"I'm not aware of any sources giving the exact airspeed in the FBI tests when the jumper walked down to the bottom step. He walked back up the stairs and didn't jump. "

I think you are talking about this man?


http://www.thepilot.com/news/2011/sep/07/local-man-tried-to-help-solve-famous-skyjacking/

Yep. That's our man. Or at least one of them.

Robert99

[georger 244]

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it appears that the jumper was a lot further up the steps....

that is the page Greg sent me.....

Nice photos. Can we assume the stairs are locked down
in your photo?
The stairs were not locked down in the test (photos).

[Amazon 7]

I have no idea what you are talking about...