georger 244
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sailshaw 0
GEORGER
Your comments about Cossey/Blevins leaves me cold as my own experience with trying to talk with Cossey started with an OK for lunch followed by a cop-out a week later. Actually I believe the guy is hiding information about DB and his silk chute story shows what a flake he is with the information he puts out. Also, as a Master Rigger he would not have given out his modified "back chute" that could have been hard to operate. The actual "back chutes" that got to DB were from the Stunt Pilot Hayden and the one not used was returned to Hayden by the FBI. It seams there were six chutes provided, four from Cossey and two from Hayden. The two from Hayden were actually delivered to DB. This is still a big mystery and Bruce probably knows the most about it and has written about it in his Mountain News.
Blevins has been giving us some good info on the chutes and should be thanked for it and not treated badly because of his past on the thread. Lets give Blevins a break.
On the other hand, I do not trust anything that Cossey says anymore as he claims that Cooper did not survive the jump. He should be smarter than to come to that conclusion and must be leading us astray to hide the real information he has.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Your comments about Cossey/Blevins leaves me cold as my own experience with trying to talk with Cossey started with an OK for lunch followed by a cop-out a week later. Actually I believe the guy is hiding information about DB and his silk chute story shows what a flake he is with the information he puts out. Also, as a Master Rigger he would not have given out his modified "back chute" that could have been hard to operate. The actual "back chutes" that got to DB were from the Stunt Pilot Hayden and the one not used was returned to Hayden by the FBI. It seams there were six chutes provided, four from Cossey and two from Hayden. The two from Hayden were actually delivered to DB. This is still a big mystery and Bruce probably knows the most about it and has written about it in his Mountain News.
Blevins has been giving us some good info on the chutes and should be thanked for it and not treated badly because of his past on the thread. Lets give Blevins a break.
On the other hand, I do not trust anything that Cossey says anymore as he claims that Cooper did not survive the jump. He should be smarter than to come to that conclusion and must be leading us astray to hide the real information he has.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
georger 244
QuoteGEORGER
Your comments about Cossey/Blevins leaves me cold as my own experience with trying to talk with Cossey started with an OK for lunch followed by a cop-out a week later. Actually I believe the guy is hiding information about DB and his silk chute story shows what a flake he is with the information he puts out. Also, as a Master Rigger he would not have given out his modified "back chute" that could have been hard to operate. The actual "back chutes" that got to DB were from the Stunt Pilot Hayden and the one not used was returned to Hayden by the FBI. It seams there were six chutes provided, four from Cossey and two from Hayden. The two from Hayden were actually delivered to DB. This is still a big mystery and Bruce probably knows the most about it and has written about it in his Mountain News.
Blevins has been giving us some good info on the chutes and should be thanked for it and not treated badly because of his past on the thread. Lets give Blevins a break.
On the other hand, I do not trust anything that Cossey says anymore as he claims that Cooper did not survive the jump. He should be smarter than to come to that conclusion and must be leading us astray to hide the real information he has.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
well you are entitled to your opinion.
what good info has Blevins given out on parachutes?
georger 244
QuoteI'm not an expert on parachutes. I only questioned the FBI's official statements about it. Come on, they're lame. I also understand there are some people here who are much more versed on the case than I ever will be.
I keep wondering how the FBI brought in these outside experts. The only statements I could find about this said that these people were not allowed to actually SEE the chute, i.e. that they were only spoken to on the phone. Even 377 says he can't be sure about it, even after seeing the pictures, although he doubts it is a personal chute. In another article, the FBI says they are examining the chute at one of their labs in the Seattle office. But two days later...they are suddenly carting the thing up to Cossey's house. You'd think they would just bring Cossey to the lab or something.
The whole investigation seems to span less than a full week before the FBI announces it wasn't Cooper's, and that they are no longer going to discuss the issue. That last bit was stated by Robbie Burroughs. And in none of the many articles and statements made by the FBI about the chute, not ONCE do they say anything on how they came to their conclusions, with the exception of Cossey's silk-not-nylon statement. There is the one short statement from them saying they called some outside people, but these people are not identified, and nothing is submitted from them for support. No 'it's a cargo chute,' or 'yes, it is silk,' or 'it's far too big to fit into an NB-6 (or 8) container'. Nothing. This whole scenario is very strange.
Tom Kaye and his team were not offered access, and they have said they would like to examine it. Why did the FBI allow them to look at everything else, but not the Amboy chute?
I've narrowed down all these things to three possibilities:
1) The FBI has decided they don't want people to know publicly that Cooper made it to the ground. The only possible motivator is because their stand since the Tena Bar money has been they believe Cooper died in the jump. Frankly, I find this motivation by them hard to believe. And I don't WANT to believe it. But it's possible.
2) Sloppy investigation and poor media relations. They rushed the investigation on the chute, rolled in Cossey to make a quick judgment on it, and then wrote off the whole thing. This is very possible.
3) For some reason not known or not released to the public, they determined the chute was 100% NOT Cooper's, but did a poor job in making this fact clear to the public and to the media.
Number three can be fixed easily. They could just issue a more detailed statement on their results, or allow outside experts to examine the chute and publish their findings.
Number two can be fixed the same way.
Number one? Well, let's just hope this is not the case. I think it's unlikely. Now you see why I promoted the idea of some Puget Sound-based rigging experts to approach the Seattle FBI and ask to look at the chute. I think they should do this representing an official group. Might have better results.
well... whatever the parachute experts think here,
having seen the photos, they aren't speaking, are
they. Except for 377 who says he can;t tell. It's must
be a conspiracy now involving parachute experts here!
Maybe there is a reason nobody s speaking ? That
would be yet another conspiracy.
Conclusion: only Blevins is talking ... even for Tom
Kaye!
Keep powering this thread. We appreciate the free energy!
Pluck your magic twanger, Froggy. More more more!
mrshutter45 21
"Why the mystery by the FBI on the chute? Why weren't Kaye and his team allowed to see it? Why hasn't the FBI responded to their standing offer? "
I don't know for sure, but if they got 100% confirmation the chute wasn't part of the investigation, perhaps they discarded it?
does anyone know if they still have it?
I don't know for sure, but if they got 100% confirmation the chute wasn't part of the investigation, perhaps they discarded it?
does anyone know if they still have it?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
mrshutter45 21
I will have to read up again on the Mountain news, but I recall Hayden coming up short on any real evidence proving his chutes were used, but don't quote me on it....
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
georger 244
Why the mystery by the FBI on the chute? Why weren't Kaye and his team allowed to see it? Why hasn't the FBI responded to their standing offer?
I get a kick out of your speaking for Tom Kaye and
the Science Team!
Why hasn't the FBI responded to your offer, or your
endless criticisms/garbage posted at Drop Zone and
News Vine?
Blevins: the Adventure Books House Cleaning Car
Repair Computer Expert Graphic Arts Cartoon DB
Cooper Investigator-Impersonator!
BobKnoss 0
QuoteQuoteI've looked closely at the various photos of the Amboy chute. I can't tell if it is a personnel or cargo canopy. I'd be able to determine that easily if I could physically examine it. I don't think photo analysis of shroud line dianeter will be accurate enough to answer the question.
The canopy is indeed a mystery, but I don't think it's DBCs.
One reason is the date of mfr. Way too old.
The next is fabric type, twill not ripstop. Twill, especially old twill that might have degraded, is dangerous to jump. Early skydivers died when surplus 24 foot twill reserves ripped from skirt to apex on terminal openings. Cossey as a licensed rigger wouldn't be packing a dangerous canopy in a one chute emergency bailout rig.
And... If it were DBCs chute it would be VERY valuable and Cossey might be able to claim ownership. He wouldn't pass up that opportunity.
The Amboy lines are cut hinting that it wasnt completely extracted from the ground. What lies below unexcavated?
377
NEED CLARIFICATION
1. Backpack Cooper jumped with.
Cooper jumped with ONE chute.
The other chute he left on the plane.
2. The remaining Backpack on the plane - is that the one he cut the cords from to secure his package or did he cut the cords from the Dummy front pack and then threw the chute out.
3. Front Pack -1 - one he used.
4. Front pack - 2 was a dummy.
Exactly WHAT was left on the plane and from which of the others did he cut the cords from.
The good front pack?
The dummy front pack?
OR the other GOOD chute?
Please someone ACTUALLY answer this without a lot of Mumbo Jumbo.
I have read the accounting several time and it is NOT CLEAR at least not to a layman.
Duane jumped with what you call the "dummy". It was a front chute he put on his back. It was marked with an "X" and sewn shut. He cut the sewing with his Boy Scout knife that he carried in his right front pants pocket all the time. He showed me the knife. He cut the chords off the other chute and used them to tie the money to his front. If he did what he was trained to do, this is what he did. Based on my experience with Blue Bird, I'd bet lunch that he performed just like a robot that was programmed. Everything EXACTLY as directed.
georger 244
I have not made the Seattle FBI any 'offers'. I sent them a report and a package of documents and pictures. I have not inquired about it since that time.
I don't speak for Tom Kaye or his team regarding the Amboy chute. I merely quoted their website entry, which you conveniently ignored. (posted again for you below)
There you go again Blevins, mind melding with me!
How in hell do you know that I conveniently
ignored Tom Kaye's website! Are you sitting
beside me as I operate this computer !?
Its claims like this get you in trouble and impeach you from the day you entered this website.
What am I doing now?
What am I think now, oh Mr Magic Marvel.
You have me convinced Bob Knoss is your brother and Jo Weber your mother! Any family reunion soon?
Duane jumped with what you call the "dummy". It was a front chute he put on his back. It was marked with an "X" and sewn shut. He cut the sewing with his Boy Scout knife that he carried in his right front pants pocket all the time. He showed me the knife. He cut the chords off the other chute and used them to tie the money to his front. If he did what he was trained to do, this is what he did. Based on my experience with Blue Bird, I'd bet lunch that he performed just like a robot that was programmed. Everything EXACTLY as directed.
No he didn't...
If you had even a basic rudimentary concept of what you are describing, you would understand the obvious flaws relating to anything like that.
Didn't happen...no way...no how.
Thanks for playing!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Oye.
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
mrshutter45 21
Yesterday it had 3 X's on it, now were back to one. Mac is dead, Mac is alive, Bob was a College drop out, Bob was not a College drop out......back and forth, round and round we gooooooo
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
This thread kills me. No wonder this is still a mystery...
Propblast
377 22
BK wrote:
Bob,
No matter what your colleagues allegedly told you, the rigging setup you describe makes no sense and would not be feasible. Not even close.
This is a forum that has a lot of experienced jumpers and riggers. Your dogged insistance that you are right and they are all wrong should be re-examined.
You have a lot of experience in injection molding and retrofitting of large engines in small cars. If I told you that the CIA put a Jaguar 5.3 liter V12 in a real Mini Cooper (not the BMW one), and mounted it upside down, wouldn't you question me? If I told you that the US Mint uses injection molds for their coin designs rather than stamping them with dies, wouldnt you question me?
We jumpers and riggers are telling you that the front chute on back story doesnt hold water, that it is so impractical as to be hilarious, yet you persist and deride us for questioning you.
Lets say that Duane was Cooper and Norjack was a CIA ALPA White House conspiracy. Even if I conceded that, the front chute on back story still makes zero sense.
You should admit you were wrong Bob rather than telling parachutists and riggers that they know nothing about gear and that your wacky story is true.
377
QuoteDuane jumped with what you call the "dummy". It was a front chute he put on his back.
Bob,
No matter what your colleagues allegedly told you, the rigging setup you describe makes no sense and would not be feasible. Not even close.
This is a forum that has a lot of experienced jumpers and riggers. Your dogged insistance that you are right and they are all wrong should be re-examined.
You have a lot of experience in injection molding and retrofitting of large engines in small cars. If I told you that the CIA put a Jaguar 5.3 liter V12 in a real Mini Cooper (not the BMW one), and mounted it upside down, wouldn't you question me? If I told you that the US Mint uses injection molds for their coin designs rather than stamping them with dies, wouldnt you question me?
We jumpers and riggers are telling you that the front chute on back story doesnt hold water, that it is so impractical as to be hilarious, yet you persist and deride us for questioning you.
Lets say that Duane was Cooper and Norjack was a CIA ALPA White House conspiracy. Even if I conceded that, the front chute on back story still makes zero sense.
You should admit you were wrong Bob rather than telling parachutists and riggers that they know nothing about gear and that your wacky story is true.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
mrshutter45 21
His chute story makes about the same sense as this. 7/13/2006
"Duane was told to clear all of the passengers and the stews before presenting the note. The fact that he did not do it correctly changed the charges to a life term offense, for kidnapping. The FBI holds this case open waiting for a fly to land on a forum. The law is the law."
who was he to give the note too???? still wouldn't change any charges. still kidnapping the pilots....
Not "EXACTLY as directed."
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
377 22
QuoteHis chute story makes about the same sense as this. 7/13/2006
"Duane was told to clear all of the passengers and the stews before presenting the note. The fact that he did not do it correctly changed the charges to a life term offense, for kidnapping. The FBI holds this case open waiting for a fly to land on a forum. The law is the law."
who was he to give the note too???? still wouldn't change any charges. still kidnapping the pilots....
Not "EXACTLY as directed."
Good one Mr Shutter. Unless Duane flew the plane solo and empty it's kidnapping. Case closed.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 244
QuoteThis thread kills me. No wonder this is still a mystery...
Have you got any info (opinion educated) about the Amboy parachute photos?
Guess not.
actually you have a point, Blevins.
problem is it would have to surgically removed.
hobble over and talk to Cossey ... nobody here can
anoint you! Why harass us to convince? Go talk to
Cossey .... ?
Like others avoiding you I will try that too!
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