mrshutter45 21
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QuoteQuote
Blevins wrote:
... Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later.
_____________________________________________
Blevins, you're making good sense here, that's my take on it too.
MeyerLouie
****************
Sadly this is incorrect. The descriptions of the chutes given in the document do not come from Norman Hayden. He denies making them and says they are not accurate.
As far as I can determine, we do not know who offered these descriptions.
BRUCE: I know for a fact you write to reflect YOUR OWN opinions regardles of who U hurt in the PROCESS. NEED I remind everyone what he did to Tina, her sister and her brother-in-law!
How many TIMES has Bruce used anything and anyone for sensationalism. He MAKES mistakes in judgement and many inaccuracies - and declares himself an authority. I have been his victim as have others. He goes off on the ENQUIRER angle and outside of this he could be a good reporter....but, YOU do not get to the top or the middle by stepping on people and promoting your opinion....nor by twisting things to suit and to meet your own needs.
Stomping will only get you heard. Being believed and having scruples is MORE important. Being asked back is also important. The stomper ends up being on the OUTSIDE when the real thing is presented. Distortion of interviews and sentationalism based on your own bias will make you foe and not friend down the road.
Remember the individuals you step on or demean - maybe the ones who have REAL stories to tell. What comes around - goes around. Bruce WILL never get an interview with Tina or the Co-pilot or Himmelsbach and many many others in the Cooper Saga. He burns his bridges with his inconsistencies and bragart ways.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
Quote
The PDF document being discussed here is itself in doubt regarding its truthfulness.
The files as written are not accurate.
Hayden told me that he never spoke to anyone from the FBI about the chutes. He was not interviewed or questioned about the chutes at any time in the Norjak investigation, and he does not know who crafted this document, nor does the document tell us who wrote it and when.
Further, I read the document to Norman at his office and he was very surprised by its contents. He disputes the notion that one of the chutes he provided was a military sage-green, 28-foot canopy.
He claims that both of his parachutes that he sent off to Flight 305 were identical. He repeatedly stated that throughout my interview with him.
However, Norman Hayden's statements are also under question as well. After I posted my story on Hayden, the Mountain News received two emails from an individual calling herself Marianne Hayden, and she said that Norman only owned one of the chutes and that the other was owned by her brother, who also had the delivery receipt from NWO.
Yet, Marianne refuses to discuss this issue with me directly. She did not respond to my emails and she has chosen not to give me her phone number.
More troubling, Norman will not discuss this kafuffle with me. He abruptly ceased all communications with me when I left messages about the information Marianne was sharing.
Further, Marianne may be simply a wacko or an agent provocateur - she could be Bob Knoss for instance, or even Cossey, or a DBC puppet master throwing a monkey-wrench into this discussion.
When we last spoke, Norman asked me not to contact any more on this story because he was intimidated by the crude remarks uttered by Earl Cossey. Norman said he was afraid of being socially embarrassed.
I am surprised by Norman's bashfulness. I thought he was made of sterner stuff.
Nevertheless, Sail has formed a separate channel to Norman, so we may learn more about this shortly.
Also, Sail told me that Norman told him that Norman’s Pioneer is now in Tacoma at the Washington State Historical Museum and will be part of their DB Cooper exhibit in August.
I have encouraged Sail to encourage WSHM to inspect the chute. Perhaps soon they will have a large media day with the chute and we can all see it, inspect mfg labels, and trade stories – or craft new ones designed to drive our favorite DZ targets absolutely nuts.
well if you would read the thread you would know I
already posted a link to one of the chutes belonging
to Hayden's brother...
Im not going to post it again.
Quote
Tom found bismuth on the tie, but didn't understand what that might mean.
http://www.citizensleuths.com/misc-particles.html
You know when they have to setup something to be turned on a lathe? They sometimes attach it to something else, that they then bolt into the lathe to turn the thing while the cutting instrument is applied to it. That's the mention of "boss" here:
http://www.metallurgvanadium.com/titaniumpage.html
"Titanium turnings may be contaminated with lead or bismuth, which are in the brazing alloy that is often used to fix a boss onto a piece of titanium prior to machining it."
So it is interesting that bismuth was found..
As in previous post, info was obtained from snowmman's research - I think it's good info to pass on for discussion.
WELL! Research Persimmon Woods - custom made! I never knew where the titanium would be in a set of woods. The striking plate and.or the shaft. These have beautiful bronzed wrappings from the wood to the shaft. Absolutely beautiful work and the feel of the woods is so balanced - They have never been played with. NO they are NOT for sale. Custom Made for Weber in 1979 and the only time I ever saw him play golf was with me in Vail when we let FORD and his guys play through!
Everyone except Duane, the company president, his wife and myself went Rafting. We played golf!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteAll this discussion points to a new issue - exactly what kind of chute did DB Cooper use in his getaway?
Secondly, why is there so much uncertainty about this question?
Further, what does that say about the FBI's investigatory skills and record-keeping capabilities?
As the Cossey homicide investigation intensifies, the image of the FBI becomes more tarnished.
good grief! READ THE THREAD - one with daisies on it.
georger 244
QuoteLOL....I'm starting to agree with the more than two back packs scenario. It was Thanksgiving Eve, they were calling every Tom, Dick, and Harry that they could to find parachutes and probably ended up with more than they needed. Maybe everyone is telling the truth as they know it.
There may be something back in the thread about this!
smokin99 0
QuoteThere is an easy leap of logic here. One parachute out of the two exists. That one was returned to Hayden by the FBI and it is now in possession of the Washington State History Museum in Tacoma.
Basically still a leap though. Cause all of that doesn't mean there wasn't more than one set of back chutes. All the reasons why:
It would seem pretty likely that they would be putting out feelers to multiple sources.
We are seeing one or two pages from a set of at least 228 if you believe those are page numbers at the bottom. We don't know if there were other pages associated with other parachutes.
We don't really know that document is associated with the actual hijacking. It could be a document associated with the claim he said he filed to get his chute back. Didn't he he tell Bruce that he got paid rather quickly, but he had to file suit to get his chute back. That also might explain why only the back chutes are described in this document - i wondered why they didn't describe all of the chutes. Actually, on reading the document again it looks like it could be fact-finding to determine ownership.
And, finally, to your original question, regardless of ownership, from what you've said that Hayden said, seems like Cossey would still be a lot more likely to be able to identify the canopy than Hayden would.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
georger 244
QuoteQuoteThere is an easy leap of logic here. One parachute out of the two exists. That one was returned to Hayden by the FBI and it is now in possession of the Washington State History Museum in Tacoma.
Basically still a leap though. Cause all of that doesn't mean there wasn't more than one set of back chutes. All the reasons why:
It would seem pretty likely that they would be putting out feelers to multiple sources.
We are seeing one or two pages from a set of at least 228 if you believe those are page numbers at the bottom. We don't know if there were other pages associated with other parachutes.
We don't really know that document is associated with the actual hijacking. It could be a document associated with the claim he said he filed to get his chute back. Didn't he he tell Bruce that he got paid rather quickly, but he had to file suit to get his chute back. That also might explain why only the back chutes are described in this document - i wondered why they didn't describe all of the chutes. Actually, on reading the document again it looks like it could be fact-finding to determine ownership.
And, finally, to your original question, regardless of ownership, from what you've said that Hayden said, seems like Cossey would still be a lot more likely to be able to identify the canopy than Hayden would.
Here are some past posts on this topic:
Ckret posted as follows:
Ckret
Jun 12, 2008, 9:28 PM
Post #2512 of 2519 (53 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 350
Sluggo,
The NB6 and the Pioneer were Cossey's chutes, he had them at his house, they weren't at Seattle Skysports. I asked Cossey why he packed a 28 foot canopy in the NB6 and he just shrugged. Kind of like, "it was my chute, I did it because I can." I like that guy, I could have talked to him all day but he grew tired of me in about an hour.
Ckret
and:
Ckret
Jun 13, 2008, 9:56 AM
Post #2532 of 2672 (263 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 371
Question about the NB6, now that we have an NB6 expert here. When I talked with Cossey he explained how he configured the chute but did so as if I knew what he was talking about. (you ever talk to someone with so much expertise they don't have the time or desire to take it down a notch)
He talked about a two phase pull because of where he placed the handle. (it would have been under the right armpit) He said Cooper would have had to pull fully out and then up to deploy the chute. If he only pulled the handle out the chute would not have delopyed.
Can someone tell me if this is normal? Why would there have been a two directional pull?
Nitrochute then posted as follows:
nitrochute PM Friend JumpsLicenseIn sport : 3500: D : 42 years
Jun 13, 2008, 11:00 AM Post #2549 of 2672 (176 views) Registered: Apr 7, 2004Posts: 216 Re: [Ckret] Skydivers, I need your HELP! - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply
i have never seen an nb6/8 with the ripcord located on the right side mai n liftweb(unless it was a military rig modified for use as a sport main parchute).it is designed (as all military pilot rigs are) with the ripcord on the left main liftweb.for the reasons that guru stated, it would be dangerous to have moved the r/c to the right side main liftweb (what we call an outboard pull)it exposes the r/c to a greater risk of snagging or getting grabbed by a student who is panicking.i think maybe cossey is either mistaken or getting senile. it DOES NOT make sense that he would have configured it that way. as to the 2 stage pull.yes most any ripcord deployed system requires a 2 stage pull, the 1st stage is to remove the handle from its pocket, the second stage is actually to pull on the handle to extract the pins and open the container.the direction of pull to extract the pins depends on the type of rig. a backpack you pull down and out toward your feet .that is because the metal r/c housing(,the metal tube that the ripcord cable travels in to go from the front of the harness to the top of the parachute container,)travels up and over your left shoulder on a back type parachute.[right shoulder if outboard pull].if you pull sideways ,there is so much friction between the r/c cable and the housing that you may not be able to pull it.the pull that cossey suggested is for a seat type parchute where the r/c housing comes up from the left side of the seat pack (on your butt) to the left side main lift web.i have never seen a stock military harness backpack(from that era) where the r/c housing comes off the bottom of the container and then upwards toward the main liftweb.
Nirochute again:
nitrochute
JumpsLicenseIn sport : 3500: D : 42 years
Jun 13, 2008, 4:03 PM
Post #2560 of 2673 (299 views)
Registered: Apr 7, 2004
Posts: 216
Re: [Ckret] money - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply
hmmmm....it appears that cossey modified the location of the ripcord.but i still am unclear on why he would do that. i have in 40+ years never seen somone do such an odd mod to a pilot emergency chute. was cossey a pilot as well as a rigger /jumper? and the chute was used strictly by him when he flew jumpers?. it seems such an odd set up from your description. does cossey have any interest in joining us on this forum?if it was set up that way i can almost guarantee that cooper bounced because it is such an odd configuration.
and Guri312 replied to the above:
Guru312
JumpsLicenseIn sport : 900: C 6814: 48 years
Jun 13, 2008, 6:37 PM
Post #2565 of 2673 (241 views)
Registered: Sep 3, 2003
Posts: 247
Re: [Ckret] money - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To
Does this make sense? or did he just demonstrate right handed and he really meant left?
Yes! It certainly does make sense. It is brilliant, actually.
I have 2000 hours flying jumpers with about 1000 hours flying for a heavily first jump oriented DZ on the Eastern Shore of Maryland known as Pelicanland. I was always expecting a student to freak-out and grab onto me screaming, "I'm not leaving this airplane!"
As I've written, I put a 28 into an NB-6 because I didn't want a potentially hard landing under a 26. The more difficult hard pull was a bonus for protecting me from the nutty first time grabbers. I would guess that Cossy or the pilot for whom he packed the rig would want the larger, easier landing canopy for the same reason I would.
His idea for the rip cord under the right arm is brilliant! Only under the left arm would be better than under the right.
Second reason for the ripcord postion as described under the right arm allows for the best possible body position when diving out the door. Your right hand can easily grab the handle and push out, Superman style with the right thumb hooked inside the handle, as the pilot jumps out.
My hat's off to Cossey. I wish I had thought of it.
OK...what's next?
Guru.
Ckret replied:
Ckret
Jun 13, 2008, 10:13 PM
Post #2575 of 2673 (127 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 371
Re: [snowmman] virtual knapsack? - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Snowmman,
The problem is the witnesses saw the bag attached around his waist. So I don't think your chest theory would work out.
Cooper jumped with a chute that had obviously been modified for one individual, it's owner. One more thing that just hit me, Cooper was given an instruction sheet on the chutes, wonder if it was Cossey trying to tell Cooper, "there's something you should know about one of these chutes...."
Regardless, all the pieces matter and only by running them into the ground (as painful as it is) can we be sure we are getting it right.
and ...
Ckret
Jun 14, 2008, 3:13 PM
Post #2600 of 2675 (123 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 371
Re: [happythoughts] money - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply
I want to make sure everyone understands that the instruction sheet offered to Cooper may or may not have come from Cossey.
I think it was a bit odd to offer instructions to Cooper when he made no request for them. And from what we now know the NB6 was altered to the point that even an experienced skydiver may have had difficulty with it. From this, I think that maybe Cossey knew this and wanted to warn anyone who my try to use it.
Total guess on my part, but the two backpacks came from Cossey, from Cossey's house. i don't think he had a manufactures instruction sheet laying around that he sent with them.
Let's just say that a parachute dedicated to emergency use (a pilot rig) might be considered more reliable than a sport main.
The emergency rig has to be packed by a licensed FAA rigger, while a sport main may be packed by the person making the jump.
If Cooper had experience walking around the back of a plane dropping objects, he would have been wearing a pilot emergency rig, not a sport rig. The sport rig would have modifications unfamiliar to a load master.
It makes sense to stick with something familiar.
..............................
Ckret
Dec 18, 2007, 8:03 AM
Post #739 of 1694 (2316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] What type of Jumper [In reply to]
Cooper never made the request that the chutes not come from McCord, his only demand was two back and two front chutes. In fact he assumed they were coming from McCord from a mistake the pilot made in relaying information to Tina. At 5:15 Tina called the cockpit to find out why they had not landed (Cooper wanted everything by 5 PM), the pilot told Tina they were still waiting for the front chutes from McCord. When Tina relayed this to Cooper his response was, "McCord is only 20 minutes from Tacoma, it doesn't take that long."
Cooper was described as having narrow sideburns.
georger 244
QuoteQuoteThere is an easy leap of logic here. One parachute out of the two exists. That one was returned to Hayden by the FBI and it is now in possession of the Washington State History Museum in Tacoma.
Basically still a leap though. Cause all of that doesn't mean there wasn't more than one set of back chutes. All the reasons why:
It would seem pretty likely that they would be putting out feelers to multiple sources.
We are seeing one or two pages from a set of at least 228 if you believe those are page numbers at the bottom. We don't know if there were other pages associated with other parachutes.
We don't really know that document is associated with the actual hijacking. It could be a document associated with the claim he said he filed to get his chute back. Didn't he he tell Bruce that he got paid rather quickly, but he had to file suit to get his chute back. That also might explain why only the back chutes are described in this document - i wondered why they didn't describe all of the chutes. Actually, on reading the document again it looks like it could be fact-finding to determine ownership.
And, finally, to your original question, regardless of ownership, from what you've said that Hayden said, seems like Cossey would still be a lot more likely to be able to identify the canopy than Hayden would.
more -
Farflung
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Feb 27, 2012, 9:11 AM
Post #32389 of 42913 (1521 views)
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The Two Chutes [In reply to] Quote | Reply
After several failed attempts asking and still being lost on the subject, I figured a couple pictures may help somewhat. There were only two backpack chutes according to the record but this thread makes it seem like there were dozens which were radically different in appearance. Perhaps that is true as well, I simply can’t tell.
Since this tale has secretaries, taxi cabs and airline personnel all handling these parachutes, the parlance may be to blame for some of this. Cooper took an NB-6 or NB-6 style parachute from the supplied pool of two (2). So far this makes sense to even me. The first attachment has an image of an NB-6 on the left with the cryptic title of NB-6.
The ‘other’ parachute has been variously described as a ‘sport’, ‘Pioneer’ or civilian parachute and was allegedly photographed by Bruce Smith last year, which is the image on the right of the first attachment (Pioneer ‘Sport’).
Now perhaps a jumper can instantly spot a massive or obvious number of differences between these items but I simply don’t see it. They both appear to me (a non-expert) as aircrew emergency chutes. If Hayden did own the chutes Cooper used AND the chutes were identical (as Hayden indicated), THEN I would surmise that the chute Cooper grabbed was an NB-6 style rig and his choice was moot since there were two of the same breed to select. But for some reason this question is always answered with deflections and are so vague that I still can’t tell what happened.
The second attachment illustrates the NB-6 and Pioneer chutes being modeled for use. Once again, I feel like one would have to be a supreme expert on the subject to identify any difference between the two from my experience level.
Perhaps the difference between Sport and military rigs in 1971 was minimal in comparison to later equipment. The first civil emergency chute I put on was so thin and light that I was suspicious of some sort of joke being played on me.
Does the source and type of parachutes Cooper used remain a mystery (like the seat he used) or are the pictures of the NB-6 and the Pioneer ‘Sport’ representative of Cooper’s chutes? Secondly, what are these major differences which are spoken about between the two in the photos?
Attachments: Cooper Chutes.jpg (97.3 KB)
Chute On.jpg (75.4 KB)
airtwardo
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Feb 27, 2012, 11:32 AM
Post #32391 of 42913 (1498 views)
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??? Laugh
That Pioneer 'sport' rig isn't a 'skydiving' system...there is no reserve D rings on front or side strap tie downs on it.
It's a PEP, or Pilots Emergency Parachute... that's what we gravity junkies call 'em.
And either container could obviously hold the exact same canopy...the same strength and opening speed parameters would apply to either container if the same parachute was inside. Wink
Does anyone knew exactly what type of Pioneer system was given that fateful day? Pioneer made several Skydiving systems ...and since reserve parachutes were included in the delivery (or so I thought-'training aid'?)
I tend to think one may have been an actual sport rig and not the 'Navy' rig copy that flug posted a pic of.
mark
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Sep 3, 2008, 11:05 AM
Post #4312 of 42915 (6803 views)
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Re: [nitrochute] this got me to thinking [In reply to] Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
my old braincells just realized something. ol' coop may have had 2 previously undisclosed pieces of gear with him. Guru ,you can probably back me up on this,BUT there has been NO mention of whether those 2 chest chutes were supplied to the FBI with belly bands!i would assume they were, as the chest packs would have been flopping around WILDLY w/o them. for those who arent familiar with old skydiving gear, a belly band is a piece of webbing around 3 feet long with some variety of snap on each end(b12,b4, quick ejector).it is threaded thru the back of the chest container reinforcing and then hooked to another ring on either the back container "sidewings" or on the harness near the saddle.however if long enough could be routed to anypart of the harness.
Why is this information important,you may ask? well it gives cooper 2 pieces of webbing,at least 6 to 8 feet total length, with parachute harness snaps that could have been used to fasten the money to himself ,and his backpack parachute. the webbing most likely was type8(4000# tensile strength) or type 13(7500 lb ).
I think you are right with respect to the likely presence of belly bands.
However, I think he would have had trouble removing the belly bands from the chest packs. I'm looking at a T-10R, and there is exactly enough room under the Type-6 webbing on the back of the pack to route a flat piece of Type-8, -7, or -13. Not enough room to pull a snap through. So the snap would have to be unthreaded (or cut, if the end was folded and sewn, instead of seared, split, and sewn).
Some sport chest packs had Type-17 (1") belly bands with alligator clips. The clips needed to be only strong enough to hold the pack in place during a style set or while the reserve deployed. If the reserve deployed, the large QAC snaps would take the load, not the alligator clips.
I'm not familiar with NB-6 or NB-8, so maybe there is some place a belly band could hook. I don't think you could hook one end to the other. I don't see the advantage to tying a knot in webbing instead of using parachute cord to secure the money bundle.
Mark
smokin99 0
QuoteQuoteOh sure, I agree that Hayden could never ID the canopies alone. He never saw them.
Where's any evidence that the Chute List is different from the original, the one that's been established for decades?
1) One backpack, sport type.
2) One backpack, military-style canopy, container NB-8 or NB-6.
3) One non-working training reserve.
4) One working reserve, pink canopy, recovered from plane.
That's been the testimony for many years, and is heavily documented.
Well actually you did ask why the FBI didn't talk to Hayden about the Amboy canopy. See your prior post and my response.
I'm not saying there were more chutes on the plane. What I'm just saying is that additional chutes procured would explain why Cossey says he sent chutes also. It would also explain why others say that chutes came from Cossey's house.
And, it makes perfect sense that they were using multiple sources considering that they were racing against time trying to get some chutes as the hijacker was getting impatient about how long it was taking.
The point being - just because four chutes went on the plane - doesn't mean that more weren't procured. You don't honestly think that we have been privy to all the interactions or the documentation of that night?
So did Cossey receive any chutes back? If not, if there were additional chutes, where are they now? Who knows - maybe they are hanging out with the cigarettes that were also so well documented?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
georger 244
QuoteQuoteQuoteOh sure, I agree that Hayden could never ID the canopies alone. He never saw them.
Where's any evidence that the Chute List is different from the original, the one that's been established for decades?
1) One backpack, sport type.
2) One backpack, military-style canopy, container NB-8 or NB-6.
3) One non-working training reserve.
4) One working reserve, pink canopy, recovered from plane.
That's been the testimony for many years, and is heavily documented.
Well actually you did ask why the FBI didn't talk to Hayden about the Amboy canopy. See your prior post and my response.
I'm not saying there were more chutes on the plane. What I'm just saying is that additional chutes procured would explain why Cossey says he sent chutes also. It would also explain why others say that chutes came from Cossey's house.
And, it makes perfect sense that they were using multiple sources considering that they were racing against time trying to get some chutes as the hijacker was getting impatient about how long it was taking.
The point being - just because four chutes went on the plane - doesn't mean that more weren't procured. You don't honestly think that we have been privy to all the interactions or the documentation of that night?
So did Cossey receive any chutes back? If not, if there were additional chutes, where are they now? Who knows - maybe they are hanging out with the cigarettes that were also so well documented?
As just posted above: the money and back chutes
had arrived - they were waiting on the reserves from
Issaquah.
Maybe a little time and distance calculations are in
order for each source vs. clock running on the
Transcript? How did Issaquah arrive last? Why
did back chutes arrive first?
mrshutter45 21
It seems very clear you are attempting to gain notoriety, similar to the attempt you tried on the Komo news site.
the comment there was very little about Cossey, and a lot about Blevins. now you demand answers to a murder
that took place just several days ago, but once again this was not your motive, very little is said about your anger
over no updates and felt compelled to give all sorts of information in hopes that they take the bait in order for you
to become the "go to guy" on Cossey.
what are you more upset with, very little news about involvement of a person in a 40+ year old crime, or no attention
given to your first attempt to gain notoriety in this?
not just DZ asking about your motives.......
"Hopefully you are not using this news report on this poor man's death to promote your book."
shameful IMO 
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
smokin99 0
QuoteSome people might not agree with this email. That's okay. I think that Seattle-area media dropped the ball tonight by not reporting a single additional detail on a national wire story that was local to the area. In other words, Cossey. The reporters need to pick it up a bit and get answers.
What a load of crap.
A copy of blast. Really?? Basically calling Cossey a liar without, I might add, including any of the possible reasons why that might not be? A report to FBI on Christiansen? here's my number, Call me, please?? Really??
Like I said....It appears that you're either trying to insinuate yourself into an investigation, trying to gain your 15 mins, get internet traffic, or you're just totally clueless, tasteless, or mean. Under the guise of being concerned about there being no information.
What a load of crap.
Give the police time to do their jobs. Maybe there's no news because.....wait for it....THERE IS NO NEWS. Damn what a mind blower.
Oh yeah, I remember you were one of those that was also posting pictures of all the wrong suspects from the bombing. lets see -- that one was because you were doing a public service cause the FBI asked everyone too. Uh, no they didn't - they asked for folks to look at their pics and CALL THE FBI if they saw anything suspicious. Not convict a couple of hapless guys through the media.
You've given shameless self promotion a whole new meaning. And I'm not just talking about making money from your book so don't post up all your regular bs about adventure bks not making any money from the book.
I've figured it out - you want to be the guy -- and you want to make sure you get there first.
yep, No matter how you spin it -- What a load of crap
**lol and shaking her head**
Seriously, you never cease to amaze me.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
smokin99 0
So I'm not seeing working with a lathe with a tie on -- so assuming that it's Cooper's tie, would one be more likely to put Cooper in the "I'm pretending to be an executive so i can carry this bomb in a briefcase....hmmm..what does every well dressed executive wear......gee I found this clip on tie at the goodwill...I'll use it" camp (meaning that the tie has no meaning) or is he someone who worked close enough to pure Ti it to get it on him?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
sailshaw 0
To MeyerLouie
You say:
"As I have been reading the posts these last 2 or 3 days, I still can't help but ask the question: who gives a rat's ass whether Cossey and/or Hayden packed and/or owned the parachutes provided to Cooper? This helps further understanding of the case because _______________________ (fill in the blank)."
The Blank as I see it is that the chute used by DB was one of the two supplied by Norman Hayden and the one returned to Hayden by the FBI was the one that DB did not use. However, the importance of the chute returned to Hayden is that it was purchased by Hayden at the same time as the chute that was used by DB Cooper and is a duplicate (exactly the same). So, the chute returned is a piece of the histery that tells us what chute DB used and will be on display at the Tacoma Washington State Historical Museum possibly as early as November this year (2013) in the DB Cooper display.
I hope to get a picture of the manufacturing label on the chute to compare with the photo the FBI has of the Amboy chute mfg. date and if they compare, then the Amboy chute was most likely the one used by Cooper. If not, then the Amboy chute can be eliminated as a possibility. My hopes are not high as the chute at the museum has had one of its edges (2 in) pulled out for the photograph Bruce took at Haydens place. That photo shows the chute (and thus the DB chute used) to be rip-stop (probably Dacron).
The other important piece of information is the two back chutes provided by Cossey had one modified so that it was a pull for the left hand and not the standard pull for the right hand. This information was used by Cossey to claim DB did not make it as the modified pull would have confused him. However, Bruce and I believe that the two back chutes that got to Cooper were the two from Hayden and not modified.
Even though the two Hayden chutes were the same they were packed in two different containers. DB selected the military version of the two containers supplied to him. This was a smart move by DB according to Mark as the military container was more rugged and would have stood up to the forces in the 727 jump better. DB was clever enough to make the right choice. He was a skilled and very experienced skydiver.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
You say:
"As I have been reading the posts these last 2 or 3 days, I still can't help but ask the question: who gives a rat's ass whether Cossey and/or Hayden packed and/or owned the parachutes provided to Cooper? This helps further understanding of the case because _______________________ (fill in the blank)."
The Blank as I see it is that the chute used by DB was one of the two supplied by Norman Hayden and the one returned to Hayden by the FBI was the one that DB did not use. However, the importance of the chute returned to Hayden is that it was purchased by Hayden at the same time as the chute that was used by DB Cooper and is a duplicate (exactly the same). So, the chute returned is a piece of the histery that tells us what chute DB used and will be on display at the Tacoma Washington State Historical Museum possibly as early as November this year (2013) in the DB Cooper display.
I hope to get a picture of the manufacturing label on the chute to compare with the photo the FBI has of the Amboy chute mfg. date and if they compare, then the Amboy chute was most likely the one used by Cooper. If not, then the Amboy chute can be eliminated as a possibility. My hopes are not high as the chute at the museum has had one of its edges (2 in) pulled out for the photograph Bruce took at Haydens place. That photo shows the chute (and thus the DB chute used) to be rip-stop (probably Dacron).
The other important piece of information is the two back chutes provided by Cossey had one modified so that it was a pull for the left hand and not the standard pull for the right hand. This information was used by Cossey to claim DB did not make it as the modified pull would have confused him. However, Bruce and I believe that the two back chutes that got to Cooper were the two from Hayden and not modified.
Even though the two Hayden chutes were the same they were packed in two different containers. DB selected the military version of the two containers supplied to him. This was a smart move by DB according to Mark as the military container was more rugged and would have stood up to the forces in the 727 jump better. DB was clever enough to make the right choice. He was a skilled and very experienced skydiver.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
georger 244
QuoteQuoteIt seems very clear you are attempting to gain notoriety, similar to the attempt you tried on the Komo news site.
the comment there was very little about Cossey, and a lot about Blevins. now you demand answers to a murder
that took place just several days ago, but once again this was not your motive, very little is said about your anger
over no updates and felt compelled to give all sorts of information in hopes that they take the bait in order for you
to become the "go to guy" on Cossey.
what are you more upset with, very little news about involvement of a person in a 40+ year old crime, or no attention
given to your first attempt to gain notoriety in this?
not just DZ asking about your motives.......
"Hopefully you are not using this news report on this poor man's death to promote your book."
shameful IMO
'Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away.'
Elvis Presley
I call it 'Shaking the Tree'.
Pretty Phony/Sleazy.
Blevins is definitely attempting for the Notoriety Angle - not compassion for the family nor to allow the FBI and others to do their investigation unmolested by writers.
One thing for sure - Jo has NOT been involved in this. I feel for the family and simply put myself in their shoes....but, others like BRUCE are milking the media for all they can get! Such poor poor taste!
Note I have had little to say recently!
One thing for sure - Jo has NOT been involved in this. I feel for the family and simply put myself in their shoes....but, others like BRUCE are milking the media for all they can get! Such poor poor taste!
Note I have had little to say recently!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteSo I'm not seeing working with a lathe with a tie on -- so assuming that it's Cooper's tie, would one be more likely to put Cooper in the "I'm pretending to be an executive so i can carry this bomb in a briefcase....hmmm..what does every well dressed executive wear......gee I found this clip on tie at the goodwill...I'll use it" camp (meaning that the tie has no meaning) or is he someone who worked close enough to pure Ti it to get it on him?
Use this senario!
Pro Shop that makes custom woods and irons in a resort area. The man in the slow season works the front and the back - he would have a clip on for going to the front if a customer comes in.
This was the case with the pro shop Duane took me to in VAIL OR ASPEN. I, to this day cannot remember which one. The man was alone on that day and there were few cars on the street. It was off season and the area was DEAD! High scale areas probably required ndividuals in 1979 working the front to wear a tie - even in a sports shop.
Just asking and nothing more.
Have lots of problems right here at home - managing my day to day health problems. Medical tests and more Dr. Appts, plus the Fires the neighbor built 3 times just a little more than 20 ft from my bedroom and porch.
The screen porch is under the roof and with a slider on the back house side opening into the living room. It was open one night and I was asleep on the couch!
The smoke was more than my overall health could tolerate!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteTo MeyerLouie
You say:
"As I have been reading the posts these last 2 or 3 days, I still can't help but ask the question: who gives a rat's ass whether Cossey and/or Hayden packed and/or owned the parachutes provided to Cooper? This helps further understanding of the case because _______________________ (fill in the blank)."
The Blank as I see it is that the chute used by DB was one of the two supplied by Norman Hayden and the one returned to Hayden by the FBI was the one that DB did not use. However, the importance of the chute returned to Hayden is that it was purchased by Hayden at the same time as the chute that was used by DB Cooper and is a duplicate (exactly the same). So, the chute returned is a piece of the histery that tells us what chute DB used and will be on display at the Tacoma Washington State Historical Museum possibly as early as November this year (2013) in the DB Cooper display.
I hope to get a picture of the manufacturing label on the chute to compare with the photo the FBI has of the Amboy chute mfg. date and if they compare, then the Amboy chute was most likely the one used by Cooper. If not, then the Amboy chute can be eliminated as a possibility. My hopes are not high as the chute at the museum has had one of its edges (2 in) pulled out for the photograph Bruce took at Haydens place. That photo shows the chute (and thus the DB chute used) to be rip-stop (probably Dacron).
The other important piece of information is the two back chutes provided by Cossey had one modified so that it was a pull for the left hand and not the standard pull for the right hand. This information was used by Cossey to claim DB did not make it as the modified pull would have confused him. However, Bruce and I believe that the two back chutes that got to Cooper were the two from Hayden and not modified.
Even though the two Hayden chutes were the same they were packed in two different containers. DB selected the military version of the two containers supplied to him. This was a smart move by DB according to Mark as the military container was more rugged and would have stood up to the forces in the 727 jump better. DB was clever enough to make the right choice. He was a skilled and very experienced skydiver.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Maybe a repost of two posts is in order? (below).
Back packs from two sources? Cossey's use of the
word "his" meant he rigs/packed/'sold them ... to
Hayden?
Several things are obvious here: neither party has
fully explained the other, for some reason. Maybe
Hangdiver's explanation below is what happened?
Why cant these journalists ask the questions that
matter, to straighten this out! ???
One thing seems apparent. Both parties seem a little
upset with each other for some reason not explained.
Cossey has no hesitation about naming Hayden.
Hayden will not talk about Cossey. Neither party
explained. While the Issaquah story is perfectly clear
and undisputed, as per the below -
Why is any of this important? It answers the question:
which chute did Cooper use and what was its nature.
smokin99
Oct 18, 2011, 8:23 AM
Post #27814 of 42917 (1621 views)
Registered: Jun 7, 2008
Posts: 729 cooper parachutes [In reply to]
Quote | Reply
________________________________________
Re: Parachutes. Not sure if this has been posted here before or not, but maybe this will help shed some light on the legend of the dueling parachutes.....
http://myprojectstatus.net/...DOCU_parachutes1.pdf
The link originated from Geoffrey Gray's "The Hunt for DB Cooper" website. http://myprojectstatus.net/skyjack/
Additionally...
Excerpt from the Issaquaah Press, Wed, Dec 1, 1971, Vol 71 No. 48 by Bill Ostlund titled "Hijacker may be known in Issaquah" that has been posted on thread in the past…(Post #18929)….
"......The Issaquah parachutist supplied the two chest packs the hijacker demanded. Enrick (sp?) recalled that the Washington Aeronautic Commission had called him last Wednesday afternoon requesting "four parachutes for two hijackers in Seattle" (Smokin says....Later in the article Emrick states that he subsequently learned there was only one hijacker). ...(Emrick) then learned that a Renton firm supplied the two backpack chutes and only chest pack chutes would be needed…….."
________________________________________
Yeah, I know. But with over 40,000 posts since this thread began in some form or another since 2001, what HASN"T been talked about already?
(This post was edited by smokin99 on Oct 18, 2011, 8:48 AM)
hangdiver
PM Friend
Oct 18, 2011, 8:42 AM
Post #27815 of 42917 (1608 views)
Registered: Jun 1, 2004
Posts: 372 Re: [smokin99] cooper parachutes [In reply to]
Quote | Reply
________________________________________
In Reply To:
Re: Parachutes. Not sure if this has been posted here before or not, but maybe this will help shed some light on the legend of the dueling parachutes.....
http://myprojectstatus.net/...DOCU_parachutes1.pdf
The link originated from Geoffrey Gray's "The Hunt for DB Cooper" website. http://myprojectstatus.net/skyjack/
Additionally...
Excerpt from the Issaquaah Press, Wed, Dec 1, 1971, Vol 71 No. 48 by Bill Ostlund titled "Hijacker may be known in Issaquah" that has been posted on thread in the past…….
"......The Issaquah parachutist supplied the two chest packs the hijacker demanded. Enrick (sp?) recalled that the Washington Aeronautic Commission had called him last Wednesday afternoon requesting "four parachutes for two hijackers in Seattle" (Smokin says....Later in the article Emrick states that he subsequently learned there was only one hijacker). ...(Emrick) then learned that a Renton firm supplied the two backpack chutes and only chest pack chutes would be needed…….."
Thanks smokin99, I haven't read the book and it's been a while since I've read the transcripts...nice info...current descriptions versus old memories...which would I go with...probably the...then...current info...
I kinda figured Cossey either sold or assembled those rigs...just reading what he had to say about them...
I've known a rigger or two in my journeys...
eta: so Cossey gave them rigs he had already sold to Hayden...and had just repacked and assembled...I wonder if Hayden had ever been in possession of them yet...???...
hangdiver
________________________________________
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
(This post was edited by hangdiver on Oct 18, 2011, 8:53 AM)
My take is Hayden owned the chutes and Cossey probably repacked them for certification purposes.
Hayden NOT being a jumper did NOT need to know what was in them only that they were repacked during the time quota and per requirements.
Puzzled as to the location of the chutes when they were delivered. REALLY NOT an important issure. My expectations are they were still with Cossey and why EVERYONE thought Cossey owned the chutes. He merrily provided the chutes - they didn't have to be his!
In a moment of crisis - what belongs to who and who provides what is just NOT important. The chutes needed to GET to that plane ASAP! There was a man on-board who supposedly had a bomb and he was getting edgy!
Cossey provided something he did not own and that is the reason for the confusion. Cossey would be the one to ID the chutes because Hayden did NOT pack them.
Hayden NOT being a jumper did NOT need to know what was in them only that they were repacked during the time quota and per requirements.
Puzzled as to the location of the chutes when they were delivered. REALLY NOT an important issure. My expectations are they were still with Cossey and why EVERYONE thought Cossey owned the chutes. He merrily provided the chutes - they didn't have to be his!
In a moment of crisis - what belongs to who and who provides what is just NOT important. The chutes needed to GET to that plane ASAP! There was a man on-board who supposedly had a bomb and he was getting edgy!
Cossey provided something he did not own and that is the reason for the confusion. Cossey would be the one to ID the chutes because Hayden did NOT pack them.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
shot in the dark here.......
is it possible the titanium came from the punch die that made the tie clip? the clip was pressed or punched in mass quantities?
http://www.danly.com/PDFs/Punchrite-PunchDieMaterials.pdf
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