DB Cooper

[1969912 0]

Don't know how new this is, but the site is getting a lot of traffic. http://wwii-enlistment.com/

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Robert99 50]

RobertMBlevins

Somebody says in part:

Quote

'In post #47893, Blevins stated that he last saw Margie in October 2010 (which is about two months after he joined the thread) and that was, presumably, also his last interview with her.

'Blevins states that Margie knew that she would not be hearing from him again at that point. Nevertheless, Blevins now knows that Margie has changed her mailing address, reportedly moved to a condo, sold her property and told the bank officer not to give out her address.

Are Blevins statements consistent and believable?...'

You could have just ASKED me, you know. I called the bank officer on the phone after I first saw the sales document. His number was on it. He was the one who filled me in on the move, and to the type of dwelling she purchased. We discussed Margie's interviews, Christiansen, other stuff. He requested the PDF of the book and a copy of the KC report, so I sent them off to him.
. . . . .

I don't see any need for me to contact her anymore . . . .

. . . . .

If you recall from the interview with Bernie Geestman in Blast . . . . .

Blevins, After you say that Margie knew in 2010 that she would not be hearing from you again, you state that you saw the sales document in question and then called the bank officer.

What were you doing checking up on Margie's real estate transactions that did not have anything to do with you? Then after the bank officer refused to give you her current address and phone number, you apparently continued your check into Margie's personal business, found a document on the guardian, and then publicly wondered aloud on this thread if the guardian and bank officer had ripped her off.

Then you repeat your statement from 2010 that you don't see any need to contact her anymore. But based on your past actions, I'm sure you will try just that and continue to check into her personal life although it is none of your business.

What does the term "stalking" mean to you? Or, what does the term "invasion of privacy" mean to you? Stalking can get you a jail sentence and invasion of privacy can cost you a bundle of money.

Why don't you get yourself a shrink and figure out why you are so obsessed with Margie?

I don't recall anything from "Blast" since I haven't read it and don't see any reason to do so.

Robert99

[Robert99 50]

Blevins, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when you say that the banker already knew about your book and the KC report. Of course, that doesn't mean that I believe a word of your claim.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Apology requested. Otherwise, provide substantiation. No. I mean REAL substantiation.

You Blevins are a demon. The posting made by Georger was simply exchanges for a breath of fresh air so we could find a place to breath in the thread. YET, you and your very sick mind make a personal attack on the poster. Time for U to grow up!

Time for Quade to evaluate this thread. You are sent on vacations but they never last very long...yet, others who you attacked like Meyer Louie are banished indefinitely....because they spoke up.

The NPR thing probably will NOT happen - at least not what U are expecting.

The Travel Channel - piece is just an extension of recent information regarding Declassification and I do believe that Declasssification maybe the only thing that ends the Cooper Saga. Even if I could produce the Ticket it would be scoffed at.

The only thing that gives HOPE is the declassification. AWARE - who did Duane know - who was the woman in both books - one out of MN and the other regarding AWARE - one common denominator and only declassification will finish that project. Still won't put the suspect on the plane.

If there is anyone still alive - they can't come forward - they are threatened with loss of their military retirement and benefits.

One contact told me several yrs ago keeping his identity secret that he knew who Cooper was, but he couldn't talk about it - siting the retirement & benefits. The mystery man suggested ways of getting around it - but NOTHING worked. The most important was I could NOT prove I was the widow of John Collins. This contact was back in the days of telephone contact only - the man managed to get my phone number while I was an ACTIVE real estate agent.

Hell it could have been anyone and why I never talked about it. It could have been another agent playing a good joke. I didn't have caller ID and no way to trace a call.
Therefore I filed it away and let it go - it was just a phone call.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

Quote

'You Blevins are a demon. The posting made by Georger was simply exchanges for a breath of fresh air so we could find a place to breath in the thread. YET, you and your very sick mind make a personal attack on the poster. Time for U to grow up!

Time for Quade to evaluate this thread. You are sent on vacations but they never last very long...yet, others who you attacked like Meyer Louie are banished indefinitely....because they spoke up.

The NPR thing probably will NOT happen - at least not what U are expecting...'

I'm not expecting anything. They will probably find out the whole thing is a bunch of coincidences. I was banned for a month, two months another time, another two weeks. So I've taken my lumps.

MeyerLouie probably was banned because he kept posting up EFF-YOU Blevins posts. Shall I direct you to them? He chose that road, not me.

Georger claimed an *alleged producer* made comments about the Decoded episode, and when challenged on it, he admitted it wasn't even anyone who WORKED with History Channel or on the Decoded program. *Alleged producer?* Of what? Name him and I'll run an IMDB search to find out. Otherwise, I have to assume it's BS. And even though he claimed the email came from one person, the message keeps referring to 'we' and 'us'. This was VERY lame.

If I tried that one people would be all over me like white on rice.

(Or BROWN, if you're like macrobiotic or something. )

This is the THIRD time youve gone through this routine Mr Blevins.

My post 3 Oct 26, 2013, 10:05 PM Post #47852 of 47955 (584
views) says absolutely NOTHING about Decoded, the History
Channel, nor does the email I quoted even mention ANY program.

Why are you fabricating this falsehood?

Can you just read someone's post and leave it at that?

The email I quoted from a producer addresses the issue of candidates and the people posting here and promoting them.

The producer's email say not one word about Decoded, History Channel, or any other program ... and neither did I!

Please stop making things up out of whole cloth.

And PLEASE stop issuing threats!

[BruceSmith 3]

Yeah, where is the follow up ?? At the very least it shows where the FBI thought the plane was west of PDX..

Put yourself in their shoes.. they had a command post at PDX Airport. They would have had a man or two in the tower.

What would you do if you were H?

I would want minute by minute positioning data on Coopers plane, especially when they know he is about to jump right??

How about this: FBI says drop zone is E of I-5 & N of Battleground because they don't want people searching in the correct location. ??

I am just trying to put myself in their shoes

***

Greetings Ube,

I discuss some of these very subjects in my book: "Sky Thief - A Report on the DB Cooper Skyjacking."

Would you like a free digital copy? If so, just email me at brucesmith@rainierconnect.com.

In the meantime, Himmelsbach was freelancing during the hijacking. Remember, he wasn't in charge, Julius Mattson was. According to Himms in his book, he first went to PDX to check in with Mattson, then took off with another agent in a Chinook and attempted unsuccessfully to intercept Flight 305. The next two days he conducted an aerial search of the stated LZ by air. Sunday, he flew to Reno in his own plane along the V-23 air corridor.

Further, an FBI agent by the name of Gary Tallis attended the 2011 DB Cooper symposium and told the assembled audience that he flew shotgun in a helo for two weeks in the areas east of V-23, out over the Washougal and the foothills of the Cascades.

At the same time, local LE was in charge of conducting the ground search in the Ariel- Amboy area. I spoke with the Under Sheriff's of Clark County who ran the operation and he said he and his men covered about one sqaure mile before the FBI called them off, after only four days of searching. That left at least another 11 square miles at a minimum that wasn't searched on the ground, and a maximum of 23 square miles that was left unexamined.

The Big Ground Search with hundereds of soldiers took place five months later, and local residents told me that the operation seemed to them to be a joke.

I spoke to one woman who said a helo full of G-men landed in her pasture and asked her for directions. They didn't even have a map or know where they were despite having five months to plan their operation.

Similarly, I spoke to an FBI agent who was on the ground in the spring 1972 search, and he said he followed behind local LE and the soldiers- that they did all the heavy lifting.

Those kinds of assignments, ie: locals tromping through the brush while the feddie-teddies stayed in the rear eating donuts, was confirmed by the Under Sheriff.

To me, it suggests that the Ariel - Amboy LZ was a decoy, and that the real LZ was further east. One can easily assume that the feds wanted the locals out of their hair, and to keep the actual crime scene pristine and free of looky-loos from town.

This scenario is further suggested by Rataczak. When I first spoke with him he said he didn't know where 305 was when Cooper jumped. Then, later in the converation, about 70 minutes in, he let it slip that he thought 305 was east of V-23.

Additionally, the lack of any radar data revealing Cooper's whereabouts during his jump - Seattle Center, McChord, SAGE, either F-106 or the T-33 tailing Flight 305 - further suggests that this evidence has been scrubbed from the public record.

[BruceSmith 3]

RobertMBlevins

Bruce Smith says in part:

Quote

'To me, it suggests that the Ariel - Amboy LZ was a decoy, and that the real LZ was further east. One can easily assume that the feds wanted the locals out of their hair, and to keep the actual crime scene pristine and free of looky-loos from town.

This scenario is further suggested by Rataczak. When I first spoke with him he said he didn't know where 305 was when Cooper jumped. Then, later in the converation, about 70 minutes in, he let it slip that he thought 305 was east of V-23.

Additionally, the lack of any radar data revealing Cooper's whereabouts during his jump - Seattle Center, McChord, SAGE, either F-106 or the T-33 tailing Flight 305 - further suggests that this evidence has been scrubbed from the public record...'

Rataczak TOLD you he thought 305 was east of the flight path? There is no radar data you say? The whole thing was a cover up to conceal the REAL search elsewhere? Army troops were ordered in for a search under false pretenses? Funny thing, but that's what Galen Cook claimed in his Janet Fable. And it's nothing but wishful thinking.

***'Cook believes the mysterious man was an FBI agent warning Janet not to go to the press because the FBI and other law enforcement agencies were expending considerable resources looking for Cooper near Lake Merwin, 35 miles north of Vancouver.

"This would have splintered the FBI's progress and maybe prevented them from capturing D.B. Cooper," he said.'

Excuse me, but when the Feds and the US Army combine to go looking for somebody, I've never heard of them doing something crazy as you suggest, simply to throw off possible 'looky-loos'.

Oh, sure. They would REALLY spend all that money, all their resources to catch the hijacker right after it happened by throwing most of it away on a stunt, instead of trying to bring him to justice. That makes a lot of sense. Or maybe not.

Check-in Time at the Reality Hotel: They will go into any house they wish, search anywhere they want to find their perp. And anyone who gets in their way will be hauled off for obstruction. You want to seriously present that theory? How about a little proof? The FBI went through a thousand suspects and beat the bushes from 1971 to 1980 trying to catch Cooper. After the money at Tena Bar was discovered, they may have cut the budget and backed off a bit. The reality is, they just couldn't find any trace of him.

You are forwarding nothing except a conspiracy theory with no hard evidence to support it.

You even have people 'scrubbing the public records' to boot, which insinuates other criminal acts related to the hijacking. By whom?

And more importantly: WHY would they do that?

Just don't tell me it was an airline safety improvement thing or related to LSD tests. I couldn't handle that.


What kind of hard evidence would satisfy you, Robert? The evidence I have provided above is certainly more hefty than the circumstantial stuff you have presented about Kenny.

Let me turn the tables. So, what does the lack of radar data mean to you? What does the failure to examine 11 square miles of LZ out of 12 sq. miles mean to you? Why did Gary Tallis spend two weeks zooming over the Washougal? Why did Rataczak say he was east of V-23. What signifance do you attach to these pieces?

Please ignore whatever motivation you think I have for suspecting a compromised investigation.

Rather, I'd love to hear your analysis of the above-mentioned facts.

Lastly, as the author of Cooperland, what's your assessment of the need in people to believe in their FBI? How strong is that need in you? Comparable? How will you feel if you learn your Federal Bureau of Investigation has been lying to you about Cooper? Where in Cooperland will you place this dynamic?

[mrshutter45 21]

"Check-in Time at the Reality Hotel"
"You are forwarding nothing except a conspiracy theory with no hard evidence to support it"

both quotes above could fit Robert Blevins too.

you have claimed in the past that the FBI is not telling the truth about the Amboy chute. this suggests a cover up, or conspiracy.

you were on a television shown known to be a conspiracy theory based program. no matter how many people watch it.

Wikipedia: Brad Meltzer's Decoded, (or simply Decoded), is an American mystery and conspiracy theory investigation television series, produced by Go Go Luckey and Berman/Braun

Check in time.
many parts of what you thought was evidence against Kenny seems to be falling apart due to either not understanding documents, or taking the word of someone else. you thought Kenny owned the lot next to his house. you failed to show any proof of a cash transaction for the house. nobody has seen any evidence of the "alleged" stamp/coin collection, or what the original price was before it's last known value. the parachute unit Gray claims Kenny was in doesn't match. although the training is all that's needed for proof, which has been some what documented.

based on what I have seen, and whats been uncovered. I think Kenneth P Christiansen was nothing but, Kenneth P Christiansen.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MarkBennett 5]

***

Mrshutter,
I asked this question to the group that met at the Cooper exhibit a couple of weeks ago, so I open it to you or anyone else who wants to comment. All of the proposed suspects have flaws that might lead one to disqualify each of them. However, SOMEONE was DB Cooper.

If you had to put a percentage guess (and this is just a guess), what are the chances DB Cooper is one of the already proposed suspects vs. being someone who hasn't even been identified yet?

[uberalles 0]

Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

[Guru312 0]

MarkBennett

However, SOMEONE was DB Cooper.

And I am still not DB Cooper.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

"...As far as deliberate lying by the FBI, I have seen no evidence of that, neither in the search, or even the Amboy chute. Mistakes? Of course. Conspiracy, no...."

Quote

Robert, as an investigator how do you distinguish between a "deliberate" lie and "mistakes?"

Always willing to compare techniques with you.

(smile).

• Quote

[BruceSmith 3]

uberalles

Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

Ube, thanks for the shout-out, so to speak. The flight path as presented on Sluggo's site is in dispute. What the FBI says it was and what other principals claim do not jive.

As a result, the FBI is increasingly coming under a dark cloud of suspicion. Seemingly unrelated issues are stockpiling under this pale, ie: flight path, missing evidence, incomplete ground searches, etc, and I think it behooves all responsible investigators to more closely examine the actions of the Bureau.

Call it what you want - mistakes, lies, compromise, conspiracy, deceit, cover-ups, whatever; the bottom line is we need to look.

Afterwards, when we know more about the FBI's conduct of its Norjak investigation we can then more accurately select what words we ought to use to describe the Bureau.

In the meantime, we look at the evidence through "cultural goggles" as Sluggo said, which shapes our perceptions. Some people simply can't live with any doubt of their beloved FBI. Others can, and they will lead the way in this aspect of the investigation.

[georger 244]

BruceSmith

***Hi 377, Mr Shutter, MarkBennet, BruceSmith, Jo Webber, Georger, Blevins, Robert99, anyone else I forgot.

I looked at the flight maps on Sluggo's site. Shows a flight path through Portland and definitely W of Estacada where the skull was found.

IMO it makes complete sense for the FBI to 'misdirect' the actual location of the plane, the area where he jumped etc at the time of the incident

Maintaining any such misdirection for 42 years is what I would find nonsensical that's just my opinion

Ube, thanks for the shout-out, so to speak. The flight path as presented on Sluggo's site is in dispute. What the FBI says it was and what other principals claim do not jive.

As a result, the FBI is increasingly coming under a dark cloud of suspicion. Seemingly unrelated issues are stockpiling under this pale, ie: flight path, missing evidence, incomplete ground searches, etc, and I think it behooves all responsible investigators to more closely examine the actions of the Bureau.

Call it what you want - mistakes, lies, compromise, conspiracy, deceit, cover-ups, whatever; the bottom line is we need to look.

Afterwards, when we know more about the FBI's conduct of its Norjak investigation we can then more accurately select what words we ought to use to describe the Bureau.

In the meantime, we look at the evidence through "cultural goggles" as Sluggo said, which shapes our perceptions. Some people simply can't live with any doubt of their beloved FBI. Others can, and they will lead the way in this aspect of the investigation.

You sound like RobertMBlevins! You make a basic error.

The FBI had nothing to do with the making of the "flight path
map". The FBI inherited a flight path map. Here it is - the
first iteration!

What posses you to make a nonsensical statement like that -
have you learned nothing in all these years of 'research'? If
you want to tag and name somebody, to blame ... tag Paul
Soderlind and the FAA data he used.

Those are the actual historical facts.

For God's sake - go back and read Sluggo's website and then -
READ THE THREAD!

[mrshutter45 21]

MarkBennett

***

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had to guess....Hmmmm. I would say the percentage is low. most surround there suspect on the sketch, they all claim money improvements here and there. some have the skills to do it, some might have too much. none of them seem to have any remaining evidence. we are looking for one single little 20 dollar bill to pop up. perhaps the note Flo read. I would think (could be wrong) that Cooper would have told someone about his crime. I'm not talking about death confessions, but something proving who he was. I can be qualified for a job, and not be hired. experience seems to be a small part of this. things point to Cooper not being experienced. then some things point to him having some? we know something really bad happened to Hoffa. this is a good reason they can't find him. the 3 men who escaped Alcatraz had the odds against them not making it. the current was tough, the rafts were questionable, and the fact of them being career criminals and never breaking the law again tells me they are fish bait. don't forget the temp of the water...

how do we explain Cooper's disappearance? many options here. is the flight path correct. is the jump zone correct. is the timing on the transcripts correct. if you go by what the FBI claims was the jump zone, and what Rataczak's time frame was where Cooper jumped, we have an area almost 30 miles long. is it possible he didn't make it. I tend to think he didn't. I would like to think he did, but I don't see anything pointing to that. it seems Cooper wanted to jump very soon after take off. was this to get back to his house in the area around SEA and McChord? did Cooper miss this opportunity and end up jumping to his death later down the path? if that is correct, everyone is gathering around the wrong area claiming they know who Cooper was, because it wasn't intended to be the jump zone. it's also possible the guy landed without a scratch. I just don't know whether this could be true. something has to remain evidence wise, if Cooper made it. where is it? will we watch an episode of "Antiques Roadshow" and spot the chute being appraised

KC has a tough hurdle to get over. his height. 5' 8" the same as Tina's. she claimed she had to look up at Cooper. this is very hard to get by. people try to use witness descriptions being off. that is correct, but mainly in cases where they seen the guy for seconds to a couple minutes. then you have the bald thingy.

LD, to many conflicting stories. one minute he is trying to kill himself, the next minute the CIA put him up to it. granny's house doesn't fit the story. the birth issue etc. etc.

Peterson. good candidate. possibly too good. would he make the mistake of not being able to open the stairs, or ask for front & back packs? plus the thing about being out of the Country. I wouldn't take my eyes off him though.

Weber........ I don't think I'll comment on that one lol

"someone who hasn't even been identified yet"
that might only be done by the Medical Examiner. this is just my opinion. I can't say anything for sure

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BruceSmith 3]

"...The FBI had nothing to do with the making of the "flight path
map". The FBI inherited a flight path map. Here it is - the
first iteration!

What posses you to make a nonsensical statement like that -
have you learned nothing in all these years of 'research'? If
you want to tag and name somebody, to blame ... tag Paul
Soderlind and the FAA data he used.

Those are the actual historical facts.

For God's sake - go back and read Sluggo's website and then -
READ THE THREAD!

Quote

So, G, what do you make of the discrepancies between the Paul Soderlind-slash-FBI flight path and the one that can be developed based upon what Rataczak says, the heavy search action over the Washougal, the exceptionally modest ground search in the Soderlind-based LZ, and the lack of any discoveries in the Ariel LZ over the past 42 years?

Since your response was an impassioned one, I think it's fair to ask you about your feelings towards the FBI. How will you feel if you learn that the FBI is complicit in a cover-up? Or how much bungling can you accept in a large bureaucracy before you lose faith in a cherished institution? In short, what are your cultural googles when it comes to the FBI and their less-than-stellar police work.

And please, don't ever try to mind-fuck me again and tell me to read the thread. I consider it disrespectful. It's an intellectualized form of bullying, and I won't accept it.

• Quote

[georger 244]

BruceSmith

"...The FBI had nothing to do with the making of the "flight path
map". The FBI inherited a flight path map. Here it is - the
first iteration!

What posses you to make a nonsensical statement like that -
have you learned nothing in all these years of 'research'? If
you want to tag and name somebody, to blame ... tag Paul
Soderlind and the FAA data he used.

Those are the actual historical facts.

For God's sake - go back and read Sluggo's website and then -
READ THE THREAD!

Quote

So, G, what do you make of the discrepancies between the Paul Soderlind-slash-FBI flight path and the one that can be developed based upon what Rataczak says, the heavy search action over the Washougal, the exceptionally modest ground search in the Soderlind-based LZ, and the lack of any discoveries in the Ariel LZ over the past 42 years?

Since your response was an impassioned one, I think it's fair to ask you about your feelings towards the FBI. How will you feel if you learn that the FBI is complicit in a cover-up? Or how much bungling can you accept in a large bureaucracy before you lose faith in a cherished institution? In short, what are your cultural googles when it comes to the FBI and their less-than-stellar police work.

And please, don't ever try to mind-fuck me again and tell me to read the thread. I consider it disrespectful. It's an intellectualized from of bullying, and I won't accept it.

Mind fuck?

A "mind fuck" is you telling the world the FBI MADE the NWA-FAA
flight path map .... when they didn't!

Name who in the FBI at the time who would have done this!?
Was it Agent Smurley Caleopea Canoe?

Just tell people it was made by Unicorns at Area-51!

Its not anyone's fault you havent been keeping up or reading
and absorbing the thread. Goto the back of the class!

You bring up "Fair"? What would be "fair" in my book is you
learning a few basic facts about the DB Cooper case and
dropping the Foreman's, Unicorns, and somebody to blame.

The blame is yours.

I just work for a living. A Wage Earner Sheeple.


And my "feelings" about clouds and water, are my damned
business!

[MarkBennett 5]

Good stuff, Mr. Shutter,

Ask me to give a yes/no on any of the suspects, I'd probably vote "No" on all of them.

I have problems with him dying in the jump as well. Was DB Cooper the kind of guy who would not have been missed if he had died? I don't think so. Plus, no parachute, no brief case and no body. If I had to guess, I'd have to say he made it.

If he died in the jump, that brings us back to Mel Wilson, Vicki's dad. He was missing and he was a criminal. However, he was missing before the hijacking and he had a reason to be missing.

I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?

[BruceSmith 3]

So, G, what do you make of the discrepancies between the Paul Soderlind-slash-FBI flight path and the one that can be developed based upon what Rataczak says, the heavy search action over the Washougal, the exceptionally modest ground search in the Soderlind-based LZ, and the lack of any discoveries in the Ariel LZ over the past 42 years?

Since your response was an impassioned one, I think it's fair to ask you about your feelings towards the FBI. How will you feel if you learn that the FBI is complicit in a cover-up? Or how much bungling can you accept in a large bureaucracy before you lose faith in a cherished institution? In short, what are your cultural googles when it comes to the FBI and their less-than-stellar police work.

And please, don't ever try to mind-fuck me again and tell me to read the thread. I consider it disrespectful. It's an intellectualized from of bullying, and I won't accept it.

Quote

Mind fuck?

A "mind fuck" is you telling the world the FBI MADE the NWA-FAA
flight path map .... when they didn't!

Name who in the FBI at the time who would have done this!?
Was it Agent Smurley Caleopea Canoe?

Just tell people it was made by Unicorns at Area-51!

Its not anyone's fault you havent been keeping up or reading
and absorbing the thread. Goto the back of the class!

You bring up "Fair"? What would be "fair" in my book is you
learning a few basic facts about the DB Cooper case and
dropping the Foreman's, Unicorns, and somebody to blame.

The blame is yours.

I just work for a living. A Wage Earner Sheeple.


And my "feelings" about clouds and water, are my damned
business!


***

I gather you have no substantive opinions on the discrepancies mentioned above, then, G?

Or is your anger and your need to rant overwhelming your powers of reasoning?

Your histrionics may work with some on this forum, but not with me. Just saying.

[mrshutter45 21]

MarkBennett

Good stuff, Mr. Shutter,

Ask me to give a yes/no on any of the suspects, I'd probably vote "No" on all of them.

I have problems with him dying in the jump as well. Was DB Cooper the kind of guy who would not have been missed if he had died? I don't think so. Plus, no parachute, no brief case and no body. If I had to guess, I'd have to say he made it.

If he died in the jump, that brings us back to Mel Wilson, Vicki's dad. He was missing and he was a criminal. However, he was missing before the hijacking and he had a reason to be missing.

I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?

"I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?"

sure, the possibility is there that he has not been found...alive. Mel Wilson sure did slip thru the cracks. he did disappear around the same time! if you drive down Cooper Hwy, you find a split in the road. the problem is, which route did he take. I'm not set in stone that he took the Hwy to hell. it's still possible he fooled everyone. I tend to lean more to the Hwy to hell though. If Cooper's family was dead, or he didn't stay in touch, it's possible to go missing without any alert.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

***


"I go back and forth -- I think there must be somebody new that hasn't been investigated, but is it really possible the true hijacker could have slipped through the cracks and either didn't tell anyone or died without being tied to the crime?"

sure, the possibility is there that he has not been found...alive. Mel Wilson sure did slip thru the cracks. he did disappear around the same time! if you drive down Cooper Hwy, you find a split in the road. the problem is, which route did he take. I'm not set in stone that he took the Hwy to hell. it's still possible he fooled everyone. I tend to lean more to the Hwy to hell though. If Cooper's family was dead, or he didn't stay in touch, it's possible to go missing without any alert.

I do not know what to say. I give up!

After today - I just feel LOST!

Duane Weber disappeared off the map as far as his family was concerned after 1971. He had not contacted his sister in many yrs, but when he knew the disease was advancing and that dialysis was just around the corner - he contacted his sister before we left VA around the time the Dr.s inserted the Fistual.

He CALLED his sister and they exchanged photos and news...she still thought the woman with him was the woman from when she last saw her brother in 1971.

The yr Duane contacted his sister with contact information was 1986 just before Christmas.

They exchanged photos and Duane provided her with an address.

His sister had move a couple of time, but somehow Duane had kept up with her. She told me she got a phone call during the holidays, but with NO Address or contact number until he called her around Thanksgiving and I am sure it was 1986 before we moved to AL in 1987.

Evidently since he was headed to Diaylsis - he knew she could contact the FBI if she wanted to. Remember that she thought I was that other woman until I went to CA in 2004 after I had remarried and my husband was there for proton radiation.

The things she told me and the life Duane spent on the run - and then the things he told me and showed me. I can't erase all of those nor can I convince others or project to others what I knew and lived with Weber.

NO one wants to believe the truth and I have put myself thru 18 yrs of hell trying to tell what I know.

Duane did keep intouch with the sister after we moved to Fl - perhaps he had no fear at that time. When he went into the hospital that last time - I called her and she arranged for him to communicate with his brother to say good by - they had not spoke since 1958.

Duane was all smiles when John spoke to him on the phone - never will forget that moment as long as I live. I can still see the smile on his face thru the morphine as they talked - they were saying GOOD BY and had not seen each other since 1958.

I will try to answer any questions anyone wants to ask, but I won't be available for very long - I have to be saying good bye - I can't take much more of the torture I have put myself thru for the past 17 yrs - trying to get someone to hear me and now most of what I knew - and the places Duane took me to have changed. The FBI has now reached the statutes where they can close the case with no cause. Those who wish the Cooper saga to go on forever can do so and nothing any of you ever uncover will ever be investigated.

Our Government does NOT care how many lives have been destroyed by Cooper. I am not the first one. The others are families of suspects others accused unjustily of the crime.

The 41 yrs since Cooper made his jump has altered many lives. If you have questions - I will try to answer them, but not for much longer.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

BruceSmith

So, G, what do you make of the discrepancies between the Paul Soderlind-slash-FBI flight path and the one that can be developed based upon what Rataczak says, the heavy search action over the Washougal, the exceptionally modest ground search in the Soderlind-based LZ, and the lack of any discoveries in the Ariel LZ over the past 42 years?

Since your response was an impassioned one, I think it's fair to ask you about your feelings towards the FBI. How will you feel if you learn that the FBI is complicit in a cover-up? Or how much bungling can you accept in a large bureaucracy before you lose faith in a cherished institution? In short, what are your cultural googles when it comes to the FBI and their less-than-stellar police work.

And please, don't ever try to mind-fuck me again and tell me to read the thread. I consider it disrespectful. It's an intellectualized from of bullying, and I won't accept it.

Quote

Mind fuck?

A "mind fuck" is you telling the world the FBI MADE the NWA-FAA
flight path map .... when they didn't!

Name who in the FBI at the time who would have done this!?
Was it Agent Smurley Caleopea Canoe?

Just tell people it was made by Unicorns at Area-51!

Its not anyone's fault you havent been keeping up or reading
and absorbing the thread. Goto the back of the class!

You bring up "Fair"? What would be "fair" in my book is you
learning a few basic facts about the DB Cooper case and
dropping the Foreman's, Unicorns, and somebody to blame.

The blame is yours.

I just work for a living. A Wage Earner Sheeple.


And my "feelings" about clouds and water, are my damned
business!

Quote

I gather you have no substantive opinions on the discrepancies mentioned above, then, G?

Or is your anger and your need to rant overwhelming your powers of reasoning?

Your histrionics may work with some on this forum, but not with me. Just saying.

histrionics ?

anger and your need to rant ?

Bruce. Can you understand the words comin outta my mouth?

The Foreman's cat was not D.B. Cooper!

You are entitled to conjecture. You may even bring in Masons,
mind waves, ESP, 7 Chakras, and Quantum Possum FBI
Saxaphone Wars ... but you are not entitled to make stuff up.



The FBI did not make the flight path map ... any more than
they make Chevy's and Quantum Possum Brand shoes with
secret detectors that implant between your toes!

Maybe the histrionics are yours?

I read nonfiction.

[sailshaw 0]

Mark:
You say "I asked this question to the group that met at the Cooper exhibit a couple of weeks ago, so I open it to you or anyone else who wants to comment. All of the proposed suspects have flaws that might lead one to disqualify each of them. However, SOMEONE was DB Cooper."

I would like to speak out for my suspect Sheridan Peterson who lived at my house 10 years before Norjak. I knew he was DB Cooper when the FBI stopped at our house to ask about him within a year of Norjak. I was at work and my wife could not find any record of him as he never paid his rent for the month and we had no receipt.

I called the FBI (Agent White) and told them that I knew why they were looking for Sheridan. I told them that he looks like the sketch and was motivated to jump out of a 727 using the aft airstair. He had pumped me for all the information I knew about the 727 and the aft airstair as I was an Engineer at Boeing and working with Mechanical Systems testing. The 727 was new to us at the time but an article in Avation Week told quite a bit about the plane. Sheridan had a temporary job at the Worlds Fair as the operator of the Bubbleator (evelator). His job was not to last very long and I believe I suggested that he get a job at Boeing using his English Degree from U of Missouri to work in the Manuals and Handbooks Group where he could find out all about the 727 aft airstairs. He went on to get a job at Boeing in that group and was located in the 9-101 bldg. at the Development Center in Seattle on the second floor. My office was there too.

Sheridan is the right height 6ft 1in and olive skin color. His eyes are blue but he most likely used brown contact lens to change his eyes to look brown. They would have made his eyes look piercing which the Flight Attendants noticed. This might have been his only discuise as he soon covered his eyes with dark glasses (until he left the plane). Once he had proudly displayed his brown eyes to the Flight Attendants, he put on the dark glasses to made his eyes more sensitive for seeing in the dark. His experience in skydiving starts with three years as a Smoke Jumper for the USFS followed by private jumping and starting the Boeing Skydiving Club and jumping at the Issaquah Sky Sports DZ. He received his Instructors Certification there and had to know Earl Cossey the rigger. Sheridan had made night jumps and a demonstration jump to advertize the Boeing Club and dresssed just like DB Cooper in a dark suit, white shirt/blk tie, and loafers. The attached photo is from the Boeing News files July 12, 1962. The FBI had super evidence in that he left his tie on the plane and the Seattle Slueths found two types of Titanium and a twisted curl of Aluminum on the tie. The findings were so small that it took a strong microscope to see them. The only place in the Pacific Northwest that would have both types of Titanium was at Boeing in the Materials and Processes Lab on the first floor of the same building where Sheridan's office was. The two types of Titanium were pure (powdered) and aloy. The Slueths were thrown off the track as their leader assumed that Boeing would not have been working with pure Titanium. Big mistake as it really pinned down the location that the particules came from. The scraps from that lab were in the hallways that Sheridan would have had to pass by at least two times a day and twice that if he had lunch in the caffateria. The machine operators would not wear a tie and Engineers did not wear ties in the lab however Sheridan could have scrounged stuff from the tub skids where the scrap metal departed the building.

Why would Sheridan write about himself so much if he was DB Cooper? He wanted to seem like he was too open with his information to be Cooper. The description of where he wanted to go (Mexico) and calling the chutes front and back were also clever along with having trouble with the door (when the pressure is not equalized the door will not open). He did not die in the jump and it still alive in Santa Clara California and getting close to 90 years old. He even did a jump at 80 for the Skydiving mag. Yes he is our man and the DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent just after Norjak would prove it and quickly close this case.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

[skyjack71 0]

Sheridan was TOO WELL known in the area - why don't you take a trip and talk to him. Cossey would also have told you that Sheridan could NOT be Cooper. As I have told you I personally spoke to Sheridan yrs before and this was before 2000. I had never seen a picture of Sheridan until I got a computer. There is one of Sheridan taken around the late 1970's at the 'Issa' can't spell it place. His appearance in that photo was quiet different than the one you are posting.

Cooper did NOT have a receding hair line - that is a given. He had a forehead that was slanted but NOT receding. THAT is what the composite reflects.

Perhaps You need to talk to Rose the artist who did the composites?

Wonder if any one out there has a picture of Jack whose real name was Jaqiuam (do not know the spelling - it was Indian, but they aways called him Jack or Jak).

The shape of the face and the bone structure are NOT correct - find the artist named Rose. He did the composites and spent a lot of time with the witnesses. Doug Pasternak spent almost 2 hr with the man in 2000 and he may still have all of his notes taken in that conversation.

What if I could connect your BUBBLE Guy with Weber??????
Think about this before you reply - don't jump off a pillar above a man made lake until you have tested the water depth below .

I use this because I DID do somthing THAT stupid in College and I live with the injury to this day. I was a VERY lucky girl.

The only connect Peterson has to all of this is having knowledge of a group of business men who had a contest. I nor Petersen knew if it was the winner or the looser who had to jump out of a plane. The FBI was provided the name of the company & supposedly it checked out.

YOU check it out - go see Petersen, but I expect his illness and his age have debilitated his mental capacities by now. Perhaps he prefers to let the world believe he is Cooper. He LOVES a good joke!

If you have to have something MORE concrete than the things you have stated. The FBI never checked out the companies Duane Weber worked for to see if one of their affiliates was involved in such a contest - but, it did HAPPEN! I can provide them with names that will match what is in their own investigative file - IF they were interested in ACTUALLY solving the case.

They checked out the owner, but NOT the agents who attended! In fact I have a receipt where the owner borrow a few K's from Weber who was an agent making little to no money. The FBI didn't even look at the receipt and THINK - where the F did Weber get that kind of $ to loan his boss.

Nor did they bother to see if the company was a shield and under several names. The list of employees change from wk to wk.. Racketters - maybe? Perhaps old excons working names and games as legitimate ins companies.

Sailshaw you have to have more than just U think or U believe. I have traveled that road for 18 yrs and look were it got me. Even when you get the information and track his step - you will get to ZEROVILLE with the FBI.

Sitting behind a computer and making claims does not take the place of actual and real documentation of your claims. Even then the FBI did NOT take the time to check detail out even when they got phone calls about all of this and it was posted about.

YOU live there - there are old jumpers and archived newpapers with pictures - go find them.

LONG & DIFFCULT DAY. Good night!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

Georger: When people say 'FBI map', they likely do that as a shortcut, because I think most serious Cooperland folk understand the map was probably created by Soderlind and his NWA team, using the radar data, radio transmissions from the crew, maybe even some black box stuff. I don't know.

As the years pass and civilization creeps further into SW Washington, and off-road use increases, plus the heavy logging, it is amazing not a single shred of anything Cooper has ever been discovered. (Excepting the money on the Columbia, of course)

Where did Cooper jump? How far did he drift? Those the Big Questions. If 305 was moving at approximately three miles a minute or so, and they are off on the exact jump point by even five minutes, this leaves an area a minimum of fifteen miles long, and counting drift, up to three miles wide perhaps. Perhaps MORE. And even at the minimum stated, this means a possible search area of FORTY-FIVE SQUARE MILES, not twelve as Bruce has stated.

I suggest to anyone they snapshot a Google Map pic of any wooded area that is 45 square miles and then zoom in to imagine a possible ground search. It is a staggering project.

I've been on searches for SAR where we knew the location of the lost person within two or three square miles and couldn't find the person(s) after a two-week search using scores of volunteers. Last year, in the Mt. Si helicopter skydiving incident, they had testimony from the pilot of the heli, so they had a reasonable idea where the skydiver went in. But two weeks later...nothing found. That was an extensive ground and air search. (I haven't checked, but maybe they've found him by now.) Wasn't on that SAR of course, been out of that for some years now.

There is also some dispute on the flight path being a few miles east or west of the 'official' map. Let's say just TWO miles either way. That increases the MINIMUM search area to 15x7 miles approximately, or 105 square miles.

*People beginning to understand the gravity of the size of the necessary search*

This isn't really addressed to Georger in particular, who probably realized all this long ago, but to everyone else. Why couldn't they find Cooper? Maybe it was simply hopeless from the start, and since it was a while before the actual search began, Cooper could have been long gone by dawn the next morning anyway, if he managed to get to any road in the area. Or a phone. Who knows?

Still haven't seen anything from Bruce Smith proving that Rataczak said the flight was west of V23, by the way. Not that such proof doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it yet.

Someone that used to be here, and I, went around about what
the black and white map should be called. Sluggo calls it the
FBI Jump map. Its his site - he can call it what he wants. Sluggo
was referring to how the map was used - its purpose, to identify
the jump area in order to coordinate searches and catch Cooper.

It could have been called the NWA-FAA search map ?

Blaming the FBI for the map et cetera, is an empty exercise.

Once you know the origin of the map and how it was composed
another historical element of the case becomes more apparent -
the role of the FAA. The FAA supposedly became the repository
for the 'radar tapes'? The FAA's role in the DB Cooper case is
a little-explored area, but an historical fact nonetheless.

Its an empty exercise probably, and nobody interested -