DB Cooper

[GreyCopGC148 0]

RobertMBlevins

***how do I know she didn't get a loan paid off? common sense. if she was making good money, why the need for a loan?

Robert says: Andrusko said she made good money at the time, and her expenses were low because she and her kids were living with the Geestmans'. But...she didn't have enough ready cash to put the down on the home in Buckley. So she got her brother to borrow it from Kenny. Her daughter says this, her grandsons say this, DAWN says this, and even Geestman admitting knowing about it, although he denies knowing the details, which is a lie.

Quote

How do you know Kenny paid $14,500 cash for the house? you have been saying this for years.

Robert says: I didn't see some of the sales records until recently. Mostly my job was to interview the people Kenny knew more personally. Gray interviewed mostly people Kenny worked with. Apparently it wasn't ALL in cash. The main basis I worked on with Kenny were things like Mrs Geestman and Helen Jones saying Kenny and Bernie Geestman disappeared for a week over the hijacking, and Mrs Geetman's statements saying her husband was an accomplice in the hijacking...and then later admitting it was NOT someone else with her husband after all...but Kenny. You have to remember that my job was NOT researching Kenny's finances. That would be Porteous. He was the one who got the bank statements, the tax records, and lately...some additional docs on the house. As far as the sale price on the house, I got that mostly from Porteous and the Gray article...the one where you said he told you he didn't say anything about it. Guess I will have to quote you from the Gray article again. Pay special attention to the italic part:

Quote

''According to property records, Kenny was able to purchase a house and some land. In October 1972, about a year after Cooper’s jump, Kenny paid $14,000 for a modest ranch in Bonney Lake, a small mountain town, in the Cascades. A year later, a deed shows he paid $1,500 for a parcel of land...'

Quote

Gray said he didn't research Kenny's finances. this could lead to old Lyle telling him something.

Robert: I have questioned Lyle on this point. Lyle says he did not know the arrangements on the house sale. Kenny never discussed it with him. Anything he found out about it (1990 payoff of the $7,500 equity loan) was in Kenny's papers after he died. No one is quoted as the source of the price in the article. Only Gray says it. Again...you should quote it to him the next time he tells you he didn't mention it in his article. And then ask HIM the source of his statement.

Quote

zero documented proof has come forward about a cash deal.

then you have several different stories about the money find on the property. Rattenbury said on Decoded the money was found in 2002 after clearing the property. how did it go from 2002 back to the Powell's?

Robert says: You are right. A partial cash sale on the house has not been fully documented, but the balance came from SOMEWHERE. Porteous and I believe the balance was paid under the table to the Grimes couple. Some of this is based on the sale records, and the lack of anything made public on the balance.

Rattenbury is incorrect, and this is a story he heard from the previous owner...but....there were a few owners between Rattenbury and Christiansen. The money was actually discovered in late 1994, according to Carolyn Tyner. She should know. She was living at the house when the money was discovered. Rattenbury didn't come along until years later. It's in the KC report, which isn't based so much on money, but on witness testimony. There are some entries about the loan to Andrusko, though.

Look, I pretty much get the idea you don't believe any of this, etc. That's fine. No one says you do and I'm okay with that.

I's the house still there as of 30 days ago. It sold for 200,0000. I LOL when they told me. Ken C would LOL to.

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Seems like the DZ turned into a home for the misfits.

Well, that is not the only places they are - I got multiple email from a man who supposedly does not posts here but supposedly get messages about what is being said.

IT was email after email of rants! A lot about a "dog" and supposed connections to Duane's family. Well, I wish him luck on that - as I have everything of importance the sister and brother felt I needed. They are both deceased now - and what was left fell into the hands of a great great neice who is not interested in seeing what she has. WE (myself and others) offered to have all of the floppies converted to a format so they could be read and offered to copy anything of pertence.

Facts have been twisted to the point no one knows what actually happened and even with the FBI files - no one wants to believe they are accurate.

The crime is 42 yrs old! Will it ever be solved? Even if the FBI identified a subject as being the most likely - the conspiracy theme and those pushing subjects will argue their points till the end of their lives.

As for me - I will know someday if there is truely a hereafter.

Like Duane's best friend has always said - Duane will be there waiting on him with that smirk on his face and he will look him in the eye and say -
"You REALLY did it didn't you? "

Well, I would like to know the truth before I die, but if the authorities have their way - that is not going to happen.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[GreyCopGC148 0]

GreyCopGC148

******how do I know she didn't get a loan paid off? common sense. if she was making good money, why the need for a loan?

Robert says: Andrusko said she made good money at the time, and her expenses were low because she and her kids were living with the Geestmans'. But...she didn't have enough ready cash to put the down on the home in Buckley. So she got her brother to borrow it from Kenny. Her daughter says this, her grandsons say this, DAWN says this, and even Geestman admitting knowing about it, although he denies knowing the details, which is a lie.

Quote

How do you know Kenny paid $14,500 cash for the house? you have been saying this for years.

Robert says: I didn't see some of the sales records until recently. Mostly my job was to interview the people Kenny knew more personally. Gray interviewed mostly people Kenny worked with. Apparently it wasn't ALL in cash. The main basis I worked on with Kenny were things like Mrs Geestman and Helen Jones saying Kenny and Bernie Geestman disappeared for a week over the hijacking, and Mrs Geetman's statements saying her husband was an accomplice in the hijacking...and then later admitting it was NOT someone else with her husband after all...but Kenny. You have to remember that my job was NOT researching Kenny's finances. That would be Porteous. He was the one who got the bank statements, the tax records, and lately...some additional docs on the house. As far as the sale price on the house, I got that mostly from Porteous and the Gray article...the one where you said he told you he didn't say anything about it. Guess I will have to quote you from the Gray article again. Pay special attention to the italic part:

Quote

''According to property records, Kenny was able to purchase a house and some land. In October 1972, about a year after Cooper’s jump, Kenny paid $14,000 for a modest ranch in Bonney Lake, a small mountain town, in the Cascades. A year later, a deed shows he paid $1,500 for a parcel of land...'

Quote

Gray said he didn't research Kenny's finances. this could lead to old Lyle telling him something.

Robert: I have questioned Lyle on this point. Lyle says he did not know the arrangements on the house sale. Kenny never discussed it with him. Anything he found out about it (1990 payoff of the $7,500 equity loan) was in Kenny's papers after he died. No one is quoted as the source of the price in the article. Only Gray says it. Again...you should quote it to him the next time he tells you he didn't mention it in his article. And then ask HIM the source of his statement.

Quote

zero documented proof has come forward about a cash deal.

then you have several different stories about the money find on the property. Rattenbury said on Decoded the money was found in 2002 after clearing the property. how did it go from 2002 back to the Powell's?

Robert says: You are right. A partial cash sale on the house has not been fully documented, but the balance came from SOMEWHERE. Porteous and I believe the balance was paid under the table to the Grimes couple. Some of this is based on the sale records, and the lack of anything made public on the balance.

Rattenbury is incorrect, and this is a story he heard from the previous owner...but....there were a few owners between Rattenbury and Christiansen. The money was actually discovered in late 1994, according to Carolyn Tyner. She should know. She was living at the house when the money was discovered. Rattenbury didn't come along until years later. It's in the KC report, which isn't based so much on money, but on witness testimony. There are some entries about the loan to Andrusko, though.

Look, I pretty much get the idea you don't believe any of this, etc. That's fine. No one says you do and I'm okay with that.

I's the house still there as of 30 days ago. It sold for 200,0000. I LOL when they told me. Ken C would LOL to.

It's time to get ready for the big dance get my prettiest dress out and twirl in the backyard and say now that you solved the DB Cooper case are you going to Disney land. YEAH to ride the little GREY TEA CUP GAME. HA HA HA DB COOPER.

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[skyjack71 0]

I had hoped The FBI would announce on this 42ed Anniversary that the CASE has been Solved. Wishful thinking on my part for sure.

One could hope the FBI might announce Cooper has been identified. All one can expect is that they will publically announce NO further investigation will be done in the case.

To wish for closure for all of the others like myself - is just WISHFUL thinking and nothing more. The Cooper Case will be Officially Closed as Unsolved this yr - that is what I think. By doing this they relieve the financial burden.

I was hoping that the declassifications made by our government in recent yrs would provide the outlets that would solve the case.

I don't care if Weber WAS NOT COOPER, I want resolutions that can be proven....so I can move on with what is left of my life. At my age what is left of my life will be short and with limitation. I can only hope that the FBI does something to bring an end to all of the stress the SKYJACK of 1971 has created for the witnesses and those who thought their loved one was Cooper.

I have NO sympathy for individuals who got pulled into the whirlwind for profit or who pulled a subject out of the past & promoted him as Cooper for financial gain or recognition. There have been many such individuals over the yrs.

This case needs to be resolved so the victims can have a life - NONE of the victims are young anymore. The youngest is William Mitchell. Yet, Tina and Florence are NOT to far behind him. The Co-pilot had more defences as he did NOT actually see Cooper. Tina & Florence and others have been helpless - and the FBI has been able to do little to assist them.

HOW would any of you feel if you had lived the prime of your life in a BUBBLE on public display? Their private lives have been sujbect to the worse of the worse such as Galen Cook and Bruce Smith.

Their privacy has been forfeited and the case certainly played up on their personal relationships with others. My contact with them was with self imposed limitations.

I GUESS that is about ALL I have to say - at least for now!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

***" I also asked him about Christensen's real estate transactions. Geoff said he didn't research Kenny finances and none of that was part of his magazine article or his book."

So, where was the myth born of Kenny paying cash for his house? I believe someone kept telling us to ask Gray?

From Gray's New York Magazine article:

Quote

'According to property records, Kenny was able to purchase a house and some land. In October 1972, about a year after Cooper’s jump, Kenny paid $14,000 for a modest ranch in Bonney Lake, a small mountain town, in the Cascades. A year later, a deed shows he paid $1,500 for a parcel of land...'

Well...I would say SOME research was done, and by SOMEONE...

Porteous has been checking what he has and we've been comparing notes. I've decided to keep private the items found by the RE agent and save them for either NPR or my book next summer. But in fairness, I will tell you what Porteous and I think happened:

We believe Kenny loaned Geestman's sister $5,000 in cash he certainly didn't get from his airline pay and that this was done in April 1972.

We believe Christiansen assumed the equity loan in October 1972 that the Grimes took out on the house in June of the same year, and paid the remainder of the purchase price in cash. Kenny kept pretty good records and there is no record of any promissory note on the property. This would be approximately $6,500. The equity loan was paid off in 1990, after 18 years of payments.

We still haven't figured out WHY Christiansen would take such a long time to pay off a reletively modest loan. It's strange. There are a LOT of references in that article showing where Gray interviewed people who worked with Kenny for years, and they are, in my opinion, revealing. But my favorite quote from the article is from stewardess Florence Schaffner. After 36 years, she wouldn't positively ID Christiansen as the hijacker, but after seeing the pictures presented to her, she said THIS:

Quote

“I think you might be onto something here...."

Sometimes I think the same thing about Christiansen. Sometimes I am not so sure. The only thing I'm sure about is the TRUTH will come out on him sooner or later. I have no idea which way it will go. Not a clue.

I think the question here is what do we consider to be a financial transaction. What I asked Geoff was basically this:

One of the reasons people who like Kenny Christiansen as a suspect is because he supposedly spent a great deal of money during the period shortly after the hijacking. Now, some of that is under question. Did you research that as part of your story.

Geoff said no, he didn't look into that. Kenny's purchase of property was for informational purposes. He didn't look into the details of any of those transactions.

So, yes, Kenny purchased some real estate in 1972. No conclusion is made about the source of the funds.

[MarkBennett 5]

I think I'm beating Bruce to today's notes.....(I didn't take notes, so I can't remember the names. That's why Bruce's recap is better)

Best word to describe the symposium? Disappointing.

It started at 9:00 with a presentation by one of the curators of the exhibit. She discussed a history of skyjacking.

Then, Doug Crispen-Kenck did a presentation on Raleigh cigarettes.

Nothing really about Cooper, so we moved right into.....a TWO HOUR BREAK. That was so people could view a DB Cooper reentactor as well as the exhibit.

After lunch two parachute instructors/jumpers/not sure what else were there. One of them knew Cossey well. This was very interesting on types of jumps and what would have been successful and what wouldn't have. Unfortunately, they had to be cut off after an hour.

Finally was the panel discussion, which included Geoff, Bruce and Robb Heady. No disrespect to Geoff or Bruce, but Robb's story was really the highlight of the symposium. He talked about being messed up from Viet Nam and how he did his hijack. Very interesting stuff. I was very glad he came.

Then, it was off to Ariel. It was fun, but someone stole my jacket. That wasn't so bad because it was a cheap jacket, but the worst part was I had $200,000 (less $5,800) in the pocket!

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

I have NO sympathy for individuals who got pulled into the whirlwind for profit or who pulled a subject out of the past & promoted him as Cooper for financial gain or recognition. There have been many such individuals over the yrs.

You needn't fret about those with profit motives Jo. The Cooper Vortex devours money. It doesn't produce it.

As the battered Mr. Collins just learned, at the base of the Vortex there are blender blades ready to cut and chop those who are naive enough to sail into the turbulence unprepared.

Can anyone summarize what the two jumpers said about the technical aspects of Cooper's jump?

Rob Heady's participation was remarkable. You couldn't make this stuff up. A real parachuting skyjacker comes to a DBC symposium to present. I wish I could have met him in person. Maybe someday.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

Well, I would like to know the truth before I die, but if the authorities have their way - that is not going to happen.

The authorities usually "have their way" Jo. That's why they are called authorities. They won't do your bidding. They don't care about your "stress". Get over it. Look elsewhere for solace, assistance, redemption etc. They don't stock those items at the government store.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[sailshaw 0]

377

You say: "Can anyone summarize what the two jumpers said about the technical aspects of Cooper's jump?"

I would like to say the two jumpers were sports jumpers that use freefall in most of their jumps. When I asked the non i-fly jumper if he thought opening the chute while on the stairs would have been the best for DB Cooper's jump. He thought that a freefall would have been best and when I mentioned the video we had just seen of succesfull jumps from a 727 (all on static lines) and no tumbling he did not change his story. I still believe that DB would have pulled the rip cord while at the bottom of the stairs and let the chute opening pull him off the stairs. The two jumpers at the Symposium had not really jumped from a 727 and they most always freefall, so their answer has to be looked at with that knowledge of their type of experience. Ron that did a skyjacking also said he freefell and was using a front chute (reserve) that he had in his duffel bag. He also said he wore the harness under his jacket when he loaded as a passenger. He said he did some tumbling but quickly stablized and saw the ground for orientation.

What are your comments Mark on letting the chute pull DB off the stairs for the easiest opening without tumbling?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

[airtwardo 7]

sailshaw

377

You say: "Can anyone summarize what the two jumpers said about the technical aspects of Cooper's jump?"

I would like to say the two jumpers were sports jumpers that use freefall in most of their jumps. When I asked the non i-fly jumper if he thought opening the chute while on the stairs would have been the best for DB Cooper's jump. He thought that a freefall would have been best and when I mentioned the video we had just seen of succesfull jumps from a 727 (all on static lines) and no tumbling he did not change his story. I still believe that DB would have pulled the rip cord while at the bottom of the stairs and let the chute opening pull him off the stairs. The two jumpers at the Symposium had not really jumped from a 727 and they most always freefall, so their answer has to be looked at with that knowledge of their type of experience. Ron that did a skyjacking also said he freefell and was using a front chute (reserve) that he had in his duffel bag. He also said he wore the harness under his jacket when he loaded as a passenger. He said he did some tumbling but quickly stablized and saw the ground for orientation.

What are your comments Mark on letting the chute pull DB off the stairs for the easiest opening without tumbling?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

I'd like to chime in~

If DBC 'knew' what he was doing, he quite likely wouldn't have opted for a 'pull-off' as it's referred to in the sport.

When I jumped a 727 we actually had to slow down to terminal velocity after the exit...in other words the aircraft was going faster forward than a body does vertically in freefall.

Though the parachute he was using could 'probably' have remained intact, it would have been rough on the body...possibly even enough force to cause some kind of catastrophe failure of the money bag or it's 'tied' attachment.


The G forces involved in a faster than 'normal' parachute opening can be rather high~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2915781;search_string=that%20kinda%20hurt;#2915781

Above is a thread illustrating that point, the riser failure pictured was of the 2500 pound variety, the money bag was secured with 550(lb) cord.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[377 22]

Sailshaw,

If I had personally witnessed the Thailand 727 jumps and opening sequences I'd have pulled off the stairs facing forward. Without that knowledge I'd definitely have made a freefall to slow down before deploying.

I was surprised when I saw the Thailand footage. I'd have expected a violent abrupt opening.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[airtwardo 7]

377

Sailshaw,

If I had personally witnessed the Thailand 727 jumps and opening sequences I'd have pulled off the stairs facing forward. Without that knowledge I'd definitely have made a freefall to slow down before deploying.

I was surprised when I saw the Thailand footage. I'd have expected a violent abrupt opening.

377

Good point ~ do you think a vacuum effect might be working back there?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

Mark Bennett says in part:

Quote

'I think the question here is what do we consider to be a financial transaction. What I asked Geoff was basically this:

One of the reasons people who like Kenny Christiansen as a suspect is because he supposedly spent a great deal of money during the period shortly after the hijacking. Now, some of that is under question. Did you research that as part of your story.

Geoff said no, he didn't look into that. Kenny's purchase of property was for informational purposes. He didn't look into the details of any of those transactions.

So, yes, Kenny purchased some real estate in 1972. No conclusion is made about the source of the funds...'

'Informational purposes,' well sure. It's called sourcing. Gray was the first to mention the price of the home and the purchase of the empty lot behind what is now the Bonney Lake Safeway. You can dance around that all you wish, but ask him HOW he knew the price from records and HOW he knew Kenny bought another piece of property later that same year.

The purchase of property, a fat loan, picking apples, making $212 a month slaving for NWA, none of it proves Kenny Christiansen was the hijacker. I guess I could mention his chute history, his anger with the airline, the letters home, his life 70-71, and everything that followed. Was he Cooper? How should I know?

Tell you what. Talk to the witnesses, investigate the report for yourself. Put other media onto it and have them ask for the unedited version with all the contact information included.

There is definitely a case against Kenny Christiansen for Cooper. But that case has not been proven to date.

Robert,
Where does this "$212 per month" income for Kenny come from? According to Geoff's book "$212 per month and all the toilet paper you can carry" was an expression. I see no indication that was Kenny's salary.

If we can go back to Dawn Andrusko borrowing and repaying $5000 witnin two years, what do we know about that transaction? What was Dawn's job? How much did she earn? Did she repay it by refinancing the transaction? Did Kenny loan her his own money or did he facilitate a transaction some how? Lots of gray areas.

On its face, a simple man working for NWA buying a house described as not much larger than a trailer is not something that would jump out to me as something that someone who came into a whole pile of money would do. Then, to find out he assumed a mortgage on half of it and no information on how the rest of it was paid for makes it even less concerning.

I suppose it's possible, but there is nothing in that transaction that looks odd to me.

[377 22]

airtwardo

***Sailshaw,

If I had personally witnessed the Thailand 727 jumps and opening sequences I'd have pulled off the stairs facing forward. Without that knowledge I'd definitely have made a freefall to slow down before deploying.

I was surprised when I saw the Thailand footage. I'd have expected a violent abrupt opening.

377

Good point ~ do you think a vacuum effect might be working back there?

I'm not really sure Airtwardo. I know lots of govt research and money has gone into devices for slowing down canopy openings to allow high speed ejections and the use of chutes for the final phase of spacecraft re-entry.

I never thought a C9 canopy would "squid" at high speed and solve the problem without any other deceleration devices. I was very surprised when I watched the video. I'd have bet on hard slammer openings but they were not. Looked kinda gentle actually.

But if I didn't know that, I'd have done a freefall exit to flow down to terminal velocity before pulling. An extra. 50 or 60 knots is a huge deal energy wise and therefore canopy stress wise.

Back when I leavened freefall there was no AFF. You just jumped, arched and tried to learn how to fall stable. Those old surplus rigs seem to open OK in all sorts of spins, tumbles and unusual attitudes. Ask me how I know.


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Anything about Marla at the symposium? Has she given up on the Cooper's Niece angle? She was a tornado at the first symposium. But tornados are short lived.

Vicki is a cool breeze. Steady, non invasive, refreshing.

Mitchell's turkey flap description sure describes Vicki's Dad but if that feature was prominent why would it not show up in the FBI sketch? The sketches all show a sharp chin line.

Collins is puzzling. Why would you call your own father a criminal without having any proof? Odd. I expect his 60 page book will be a flop.

GreyCop's nearly incoherent posts are odd too. Can't quite figure him out. His book will flop too.

The rocky shore of Cooperland is a graveyard of literary ships. Their tattered wreckage serves as a grim reminder. Nobody gets rich here. You are lucky just to break even.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

MarkBennett

Where does this "$212 per month" income for Kenny come from? According to Geoff's book "$212 per month and all the toilet paper you can carry" was an expression. I see no indication that was Kenny's salary.

Whatever KC's base income was from NWA, it was definitely more than $212 per month. In addition, KC had free "room and board" for about half of each month during the time he was on trips for NWA.

Expense account living is the way to go!

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

377

Anything about Marla at the symposium? Has she given up on the Cooper's Niece angle? She was a tornado at the first symposium. But tornados are short lived.

Vicki is a cool breeze. Steady, non invasive, refreshing.

Mitchell's turkey flap description sure describes Vicki's Dad but if that feature was prominent why would it not show up in the FBI sketch? The sketches all show a sharp chin line.

Collins is puzzling. Why would you call your own father a criminal without having any proof? Odd. I expect his 60 page book will be a flop.

GreyCop's nearly incoherent posts are odd too. Can't quite figure him out. His book will flop too.

The rocky shore of Cooperland is a graveyard of literary ships. Their tattered wreckage serves as a grim reminder. Nobody gets rich here. You are lucky just to break even.

377

Paul didn't show up? wonder why. he seems to have the whole thing figured out...

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

airtwardo

***377

You say: "Can anyone summarize what the two jumpers said about the technical aspects of Cooper's jump?"

I would like to say the two jumpers were sports jumpers that use freefall in most of their jumps. When I asked the non i-fly jumper if he thought opening the chute while on the stairs would have been the best for DB Cooper's jump. He thought that a freefall would have been best and when I mentioned the video we had just seen of succesfull jumps from a 727 (all on static lines) and no tumbling he did not change his story. I still believe that DB would have pulled the rip cord while at the bottom of the stairs and let the chute opening pull him off the stairs. The two jumpers at the Symposium had not really jumped from a 727 and they most always freefall, so their answer has to be looked at with that knowledge of their type of experience. Ron that did a skyjacking also said he freefell and was using a front chute (reserve) that he had in his duffel bag. He also said he wore the harness under his jacket when he loaded as a passenger. He said he did some tumbling but quickly stablized and saw the ground for orientation.

What are your comments Mark on letting the chute pull DB off the stairs for the easiest opening without tumbling?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

I'd like to chime in~

If DBC 'knew' what he was doing, he quite likely wouldn't have opted for a 'pull-off' as it's referred to in the sport.

When I jumped a 727 we actually had to slow down to terminal velocity after the exit...in other words the aircraft was going faster forward than a body does vertically in freefall.

Though the parachute he was using could 'probably' have remained intact, it would have been rough on the body...possibly even enough force to cause some kind of catastrophe failure of the money bag or it's 'tied' attachment.


The G forces involved in a faster than 'normal' parachute opening can be rather high~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2915781;search_string=that%20kinda%20hurt;#2915781

Above is a thread illustrating that point, the riser failure pictured was of the 2500 pound variety, the money bag was secured with 550(lb) cord.

Your thoughts-conclusions are almost exactly what those of the
Boeing skydiver club consultants were - thus the basis for the
claim Cooper had probably died -

its back in the thread.

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

***Anything about Marla at the symposium? Has she given up on the Cooper's Niece angle? She was a tornado at the first symposium. But tornados are short lived.

Vicki is a cool breeze. Steady, non invasive, refreshing.

Mitchell's turkey flap description sure describes Vicki's Dad but if that feature was prominent why would it not show up in the FBI sketch? The sketches all show a sharp chin line.

Collins is puzzling. Why would you call your own father a criminal without having any proof? Odd. I expect his 60 page book will be a flop.

GreyCop's nearly incoherent posts are odd too. Can't quite figure him out. His book will flop too.

The rocky shore of Cooperland is a graveyard of literary ships. Their tattered wreckage serves as a grim reminder. Nobody gets rich here. You are lucky just to break even.

377

That is very true regarding the rocky shore of literary ships. No one at AB really knows how much exactly we spent exploring Christiansen. Maybe eight thousand, maybe up to thirteen in total. Part of the expense is because when you start dedicating all your weekends and spare time for a year to do that...you also lose money from other sources. For example, no more First Cleans for new customers, which pay a minimum of $350. Also...no more book editing, or very little, which pays very well depending on the job.

All I know is that if I could have seen into the future, I would have told Skipp Porteous to go to a different publisher. But once I committed, then I was stuck with finishing the whole thing. And in the end we never were able to prove Christiansen was Cooper anyway...

The ONLY reason we were able to make some of the expenses back was because we do trade wholesale and because the book was also released for the Kindle. If we would have released at Lulu.com or as an overpriced paperback, (see: GrayCop) we would have lost our shirt.

Why are you here?

What does Blevination add to this discussion?

Stick to the topic!

[georger 244]

mrshutter45

***Anything about Marla at the symposium? Has she given up on the Cooper's Niece angle? She was a tornado at the first symposium. But tornados are short lived.

Vicki is a cool breeze. Steady, non invasive, refreshing.

Mitchell's turkey flap description sure describes Vicki's Dad but if that feature was prominent why would it not show up in the FBI sketch? The sketches all show a sharp chin line.

Collins is puzzling. Why would you call your own father a criminal without having any proof? Odd. I expect his 60 page book will be a flop.

GreyCop's nearly incoherent posts are odd too. Can't quite figure him out. His book will flop too.

The rocky shore of Cooperland is a graveyard of literary ships. Their tattered wreckage serves as a grim reminder. Nobody gets rich here. You are lucky just to break even.

377

Paul didn't show up? wonder why. he seems to have the whole thing figured out...

Another reports the symposium etc were bland and recycled
statements of the same things. Gray made no attempt to give
additional background or elaborate on the Gregory testimony.
Basically it was: "he said this and that - he said what he said".
No attempt to resolve it or put it in perspective ... except that
he, Gregory, was the only paint store/house painter on board
305. Good eye for colour and detail... and mixing and applying
paint liberally. Uses sprayers on barns and commercial jobs.

Makes you wonder if the FBI tried to resolve the discrepancies
in witness reports? Suit colour? Weight - height?

Makes me question what the job of a "writer" is? Writers are not
quarterbacks. They don't actually have to deliver a ball or win a
game. Just find and put together fragments of balls from past
games then throw them at some wall hoping something sticks,
within the budget the owner has given.... then on to the next
project like real house painters do.

Was there an FBI rep in attendance and what did he say? I
mean someone other than Walter Chronkite Blevins who was
reporting from his Auburn studio, claiming a 30-30 rifle and
"We've lost Vietnam", but "was not there" ?

Any word from GreyCop at Bellevue? Did he survive a ride in the
back of a pickup truck, in his pink party dress?



Were Geestman and "That Woman" there, along with th rest of
the "Wage Earner Sheeple" and "Slapped Down Red Haired Step
Childs" ?

One thing was abundantly clear! Gray had not come to discuss
"RobertMBlevins". The shadow of Blevins over the symposium
was palpable, however, as the protecting of pocket change
revealed . . . Gray simply did not want to discuss ... "that
guy!" or the whole RobertMBlevins/KC debacle !



Were members of the Che Guevara Cuban Red Cross Chili Pepper
Band there? Par Bey and Sister Stella representing Jo Weber
and the Miami-Havana-Saskatoon Cartel? In rumpled russet
suits with marcelled hair and clean finger nails ... with perfect
no accent Canadian-French-English-Cuban ...

Has Gray got any unexplained trips to Cuba? Anyone bother to
ask him?

Where's the rest of the back story? Where's the beef?

[MarkBennett 5]

mrshutter45

***Anything about Marla at the symposium? Has she given up on the Cooper's Niece angle? She was a tornado at the first symposium. But tornados are short lived.

Vicki is a cool breeze. Steady, non invasive, refreshing.

Mitchell's turkey flap description sure describes Vicki's Dad but if that feature was prominent why would it not show up in the FBI sketch? The sketches all show a sharp chin line.

Collins is puzzling. Why would you call your own father a criminal without having any proof? Odd. I expect his 60 page book will be a flop.

GreyCop's nearly incoherent posts are odd too. Can't quite figure him out. His book will flop too.

The rocky shore of Cooperland is a graveyard of literary ships. Their tattered wreckage serves as a grim reminder. Nobody gets rich here. You are lucky just to break even.

377

Paul didn't show up? wonder why. he seems to have the whole thing figured out...

As I described above, the symposium was really disappointing. There was no discussion of any suspects, including Marla.

Grey Cop was at Ariel. I talked to him and he showed me handwriting samples from Kenny from the 1950s and the letters and the ticket. I'm not a handwriting expert, so I couldn't draw any conclusions.

He also talked to me about stories about how someone else hid the money and directed the Ingrahams to find it and Kenny bought gold with all of the money. I have to admit he lost me on a lot of that story and Vicki was kind enough to walk over and rescue me.

His book would probably be worth reading, but I didn't want to pay $19.95 for it.

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

Georger says in part, regarding the symposium:

Quote

Was there an FBI rep in attendance and what did he say? I
mean someone other than Walter Chronkite Blevins who was
reporting from his Auburn studio, claiming a 30-30 rifle and
"We've lost Vietnam", but "was not there" ?

Any word from GreyCop at Bellevue? Did he survive a ride in the
back of a pickup truck, in his pink party dress?



Were Geestman and "That Woman" there, along with th rest of
the "Wage Earner Sheeple" and "Slapped Down Red Haired Step
Childs" ?

One thing was abundantly clear! Gray had not come to discuss
"RobertMBlevins". The shadow of Blevins over the symposium
was palpable, however, as the protecting of pocket change
revealed . . . Gray simply did not want to discuss ... "that
guy!" or the whole RobertMBlevins/KC debacle !



Were members of the Che Guevara Cuban Red Cross Chili Pepper
Band there? Par Bey and Sister Stella representing Jo Weber
and the Miami-Havana-Saskatoon Cartel? In rumpled russet
suits with marcelled hair and clean finger nails ... with perfect
no accent Canadian-French-English-Cuban ...

Has Gray got any unexplained trips to Cuba? Anyone bother to
ask him?

Where's the rest of the back story? Where's the beef?

LOL don't tell me to 'stick to the subject' when you post up junk like the above...

And by the way...I was responding to 377's comment anyway about how almost no one should ever expect to profit a dime from Cooper. The only who ever did THAT was Cooper himself.

On the Symposium: I'm sure Ariel was a lot more fun. My main question on the symposium would be this: How many outside people from the public (non-Cooper related folk) dropped the ten bucks to attend? I'm guessing it was less than a packed house. And if so, I call the whole thing an utter failure. With an organization like WSHM behind the whole thing, their contacts with the media, the displays, etc. it should have been better.

Let me drop an example on you. You want an event like that to pack the house with the public...you DON'T charge people ten bucks a head to attend. You throw it open to the public. El Duh...that's Spanish for 'Duh'.

Look, you can call me crazy or make excuses, but here's why the displays and events at WSHM haven't interested me: They are just a re-hash, too...and the WSHM policy of not presenting any of the 40-plus-year investigation or the investigation of possible suspects was putting on blinders to reality and little else.

There have been a lot of hijackings, but Cooper is the only one where thousands of people were questioned, named, investigated over a period of four decades without result...and they present little to nothing about THAT.

As far as your comments regarding me or Gray, or discussions...Gray doesn't make a habit of talking about others. And what is that pap about 'The shadow of Blevins over the symposium was palpable...' or whatever. What dramatic trash. You talk as if you were actually THERE. We're you? Me? I'll wait to see what Bruce Smith has to say, and I'm sure he will have plenty.

I have made a decision for next year, though. I'm going to do another Ariel video at the annual celebration. This time I'm using a script, though. Last one was too long and had too much filler.

- did "that guy" say something! - ???

[georger 244]

MarkBennett

******Anything about Marla at the symposium? Has she given up on the Cooper's Niece angle? She was a tornado at the first symposium. But tornados are short lived.

Vicki is a cool breeze. Steady, non invasive, refreshing.

Mitchell's turkey flap description sure describes Vicki's Dad but if that feature was prominent why would it not show up in the FBI sketch? The sketches all show a sharp chin line.

Collins is puzzling. Why would you call your own father a criminal without having any proof? Odd. I expect his 60 page book will be a flop.

GreyCop's nearly incoherent posts are odd too. Can't quite figure him out. His book will flop too.

The rocky shore of Cooperland is a graveyard of literary ships. Their tattered wreckage serves as a grim reminder. Nobody gets rich here. You are lucky just to break even.

377

Paul didn't show up? wonder why. he seems to have the whole thing figured out...

As I described above, the symposium was really disappointing. There was no discussion of any suspects, including Marla.

Grey Cop was at Ariel. I talked to him and he showed me handwriting samples from Kenny from the 1950s and the letters and the ticket. I'm not a handwriting expert, so I couldn't draw any conclusions.

He also talked to me about stories about how someone else hid the money and directed the Ingrahams to find it and Kenny bought gold with all of the money. I have to admit he lost me on a lot of that story and Vicki was kind enough to walk over and rescue me.

His book would probably be worth reading, but I didn't want to pay $19.95 for it.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba%E2%80%93United_States_aircraft_hijackings

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings


To date, the self-promoted stable of suspects on free internet
forums have been: nice middle class American white guys
Cultural Gomer goggles? No description of Cooper including
Gregory's description, fits the WMCWG profile!

Moreover, a list of hijackings at links above (see prior Farflung &
Georger posts) shows the Cooper hijacking occurring in a larger
context of hijackings, most with a foreign connection, and nice
middle class American white guys are a rarity!

I would note that one of Himmelsbach's first publicised profiles
for Cooper was: "food service worker (of foreign extraction)"!

Domestic hijacking is rare prior to the Cooper hijacking vs
foreign connected hijackings. Domestic hijacking increases after
the Cooper hijacking but there is always a strong political or
financial motive. Use of the North-west hub for hijacking is
almost non-existent prior to the Cooper hijacking. The Cooper
hijacking represents a northward extension of what has
previously been a middle to southern State or east coast
phenomenon.

The Cooper hijacking represents a sudden geographic change.

It is noteworthy that ALL of the suspects suggested by internet
sleuths have been nice middle class white guys! That conflicts
directly with the statistics of actual mainstream hijacker profiles
before and after Cooper (1960-1980).

If the gloves don't fit you must acquit?

The internet seems to be generating candidates who don't fit
the profiles of actual hijackers and may not fit Cooper at all!
Great lengths have been exercised by suspect promoters here
to CHANGE the hijacker profile to FIT their candidates.

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

Well, you certainly said something.

No worries. It wasn't much.

why are you here! ???

except to use this forum as your personal toilet paper and disrupt
others?

I thought you announced a fishing vacation prior to
Thanksgiving? Returning Dec 3rd? Fish await you. Go sleep
with the fishes!

[skyjack71 0]

RobertMBlevins

What the heck is all your talk about 'profiles'. Not everyone can be pigeonholed or figured out by mathematical or psychological means. Especially when there is no file on them from an MHP (mental health professional) and no one put them on the couch. Frustrates you to no end, I'm sure. I can't believe you're whining because most of the proposed suspects are (your words) 'nice middle class American white guys'.

Well, Mr Genius...that's probably because Mucklow described him as 'nice' and the witnesses said he was middle-aged and white, and probably from the good ol' midwest USA.

It's on the wanted poster, anyway...

You are completely correct in your observation regarding why only certain types have been noted to be Cooper.

First OBJECTIVE post in ages with out supporting your subject. What you said is something most would think.

We know that Mr. H did not have a very good opinion of Cooper and I think that stems from the nature of the crime itself and NOT the image that Cooper projected.

Mr. H did not interview the witnesses.

The witness projections and descriptions are all over the place.

The only thing they seem to agree on is a physical description and that did vary to some degree.

I have been trying to scan a poor copy of a group picture sent to me.
I do NOT know if all of the guys are deceased and was hesitant to post the picture in the past.

It is a group of business men from the 1970's. All the man did was send me a very poor fax quality scan of these men...yrs ago. Weber is one of the men, but without showing their faces and names what I am trying to project will not come across.

In this picture has 17 individuals.
2 women and 15 men. One of the men is African American. The 2 darkest complexions in the group are the African American and one of German descent.

I am sure my posting the pic in its entirety would be considered a violation of rights to those still living.

They are standing and sitting and of various heights. No way to just show the complexion issue except to go for the 2 individuals flanking the darker person.

What stands out is the complexion - coloring of one individual versus the others.



.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber