DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

skyjack71

The FBI couldn't even get Webers records correct when I supplied them the information. Issued a statement based on incorrect information in 1998 & I had to call them on this.

Only then did they admit their error & refused to make their error public - like getting the Army number INCORRECT and stating Weber was never in the Army. ODD the FBI did that - maybe the Army # he had was as a CO...maybe he was a guinea pig at Camp tracking Chemical weapons.

The letter he sent his mother from Camp Siebert just didn't make sense.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[GreyCopGC148 0]

BruceSmith

***Had to buy a new MOUSE today. My old mouse went by the wayside....this new wireless is getting best out of my old fingers and my joints. Still have the old pad thing so maybe I need a new one that is easier to slide on. Using the top of the desk I am flying all over the place.

Just too OLD for all of these new gadgets.

We have explored many things about the skyjacking but we have done little about WHY he chose the things he chose.
1. N.W Airlines?

JO: I think he was familiar with them and had worked on the planes in some capacity such as a Catering Service, Cleaning service & maintenance maybe even service the Oxygen tanks.

2. The WA area?

JO: Weber had a history in WA with people, forestry, prisons and a personal relationship with some one who lived there.

3. Why he chose NOV 24 - Thaimportant to him such as his birthdate nkgiving eve.

JO: The death of someone close to him or a date that was very - I think some how the 24th was symbolic and remember Thankgiving didn't fall on that day every yr.


4. The Grudge thing was just a reply to some thing Tina asked - but what was his reason for skyjacking a plane?

JO: Yrs spent in prison and it started in WA - and probably the best yrs of his life.

5. Did Cooper just throw a dart at a map?

JO: I do NOT believe WA was just a random selections. He knew happiness there and perhaps that is where he wanted to die. Plus he had just had the polycystic kidney disease comfirmed the yr before in GA.


6. That particular plane - this was evident as he verified the type of plane when he bought the ticket.

JO: The family connections to the plane - none of which anyone has acknowledged. His brother and his Uncle were involved with Boeing and the 727 - only the builders, designers and others can comfirm this, but no one seemed to want to advance this subject. Then or now! How do we find the records. His brother was living inWA at that time and working with Boeing. Old friends of the family lived in WA and worked with and for Boeing.


7. Cooper had to have known the area.

JO: He was imprisoned there and he stayed in the area in the 40 and then back to the area in the 50's and his wife had connections to WA
.
8. Cooper held back as last to board, like he was afraid of being I.D.ed.

JO: definitely was afraid someone might remember him.

9. He had knowledge of the plane - how?

JO: YES per answers to the above questions. His brother who knew Gilliam were intimately involved with Boeing.

10. What drove him to choose that plane, Wa and that particular flight.

JO: ALL of the above, plus it was a place he felt good about - it was a place he had fond memories of and it was his choice to die there if that was his intention...Knowledge of the area and perhaps Thankgiving because he had NO Family to turn to and the desparation of his situtation - pehaps he blamed his mother whose best friedn lived in WA. The friend who was indirectly responsible for his family moving to CA. It was a place of HAPPY MEMORIES! It was the place people reach out to help him...and a place he fell in love with. The look on his face when we there in 1979 was one of fond memories and not just of the skyjacking - he was reliving his prior past there.

Just my two Cents worth.

A. Try to find anyone who remembers his Mother - Loraine Beechler Weber with also Wenz.

B. Who was Phil Harris - he was a jumper and that is all I know. He was Duane's age?

C. Who was Pennington - also a jumper who was Duane's age?

D. Who was Ed Huran? A man who had a past with WA, but that is probably not his real name...40's/50's/60's Not before and not later.

F. What was Duane's connections to Puyallup?

G. What was Duane's connections to Spokane and Coure d Alene?

H. Duane had 2 son-in-laws in WA in the late 60's/early 70's - one at McChord.

J. Duane knew every tower and every creek, Power line, Dams and the Microwave towers and bodies of water and cemetaries and gravel pitts. He didn't use a map in 1979.

K. What was so fascinating about a place behind the Seattle Airport that used to be an old hotel...two stories high and in 1979 had been converted to office building?

L. Who did he know at the Shnomisk Airstrip just north of Seattle?

J. Who did he fly with up and down the coast line on trips to Alaska and what kind of experiments was he talking about? Something about he made a mistake with a knot in a rope.

k. How did he know were all of the camps were?

L. How and why was he so familiar with The Dalles, Goldendale, Vancouver, Woodlands (a place all the guys used to eat).

M. An area over on the Beach - a park they worked on and stayed at.

N. Every high place and every tower - and he spewed off the name like he had been there for every.

M. ALL of the power lines and Pipelines/

N. Bar - Dollars Corner, inside the Washougal loop and Orchards.

O. Every small airport & strip and every tower.

K. A house off of LaCames Lake and the name of the boys.

L. The caretaker at the Ledbetter home.

M. The rails and the rail cars

N. Battleground Lake and ever kind of Tower.

O. Camps and fishing cottages.

P. How the power was controled for the DAMs.

Q. He told me all about the dams and how they were built and the channels.

R. The boys at Beacon Rock and the Washougal and the beach.

S. That a certain musician gave his firs live performance in The Dalles.

T. The boys who picked apples and worked the CC's at Mt. Hood.

U. The small airports in WA and Oregon...the place the boys used to eat at - in a town near.

Of course, I have no answers for you, Mrs Cooper, and I truly doubt that you desire any from those of us here at the DZ. Nevertheless, I would love to hear more about your dreams and what comes up when you sprinkle oatmeal flakes.

Bruce did you read HA HA HA by DB COOPER yet

OK JO OK OK you get one shot if you tell me the name of the hamburger joint across the street from the bar that Kenneth and his partner would go at DOLLAR'S corner. D W might have known Kenneth you get 3 min thats it

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[skyjack71 0]

Try this - when you get to CO records and some of the interlinking military records...that seem of interest. Copy words or names and then try the search again within those same sites & other sites. The internet is eroding the military CYA options.

Hell, it has been a lot of yrs - it is NO longer demeaning to the family for others to know their father or the Retired Mayor was at one time a CO.

IT is time to RELEASE the fricking files.
Snowden was doing this and he is classified a traitor and there have been others a little more selective about the doors they opened - hence the SLOW release of information from the 50's - such as AWARE and it's involvement in Area 51...IT is too slow for me and I can't wait. Just my knowing is not enough.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

most of the time a wireless mouse doesn't need a pad Jo, I've been using one on my computer desk for years, but it has damaged the wood. it's an old set up so I really don't care....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[GreyCopGC148 0]

GreyCopGC148

******Had to buy a new MOUSE today. My old mouse went by the wayside....this new wireless is getting best out of my old fingers and my joints. Still have the old pad thing so maybe I need a new one that is easier to slide on. Using the top of the desk I am flying all over the place.

Just too OLD for all of these new gadgets.

We have explored many things about the skyjacking but we have done little about WHY he chose the things he chose.
1. N.W Airlines?

JO: I think he was familiar with them and had worked on the planes in some capacity such as a Catering Service, Cleaning service & maintenance maybe even service the Oxygen tanks.

2. The WA area?

JO: Weber had a history in WA with people, forestry, prisons and a personal relationship with some one who lived there.

3. Why he chose NOV 24 - Thaimportant to him such as his birthdate nkgiving eve.

JO: The death of someone close to him or a date that was very - I think some how the 24th was symbolic and remember Thankgiving didn't fall on that day every yr.


4. The Grudge thing was just a reply to some thing Tina asked - but what was his reason for skyjacking a plane?

JO: Yrs spent in prison and it started in WA - and probably the best yrs of his life.

5. Did Cooper just throw a dart at a map?

JO: I do NOT believe WA was just a random selections. He knew happiness there and perhaps that is where he wanted to die. Plus he had just had the polycystic kidney disease comfirmed the yr before in GA.


6. That particular plane - this was evident as he verified the type of plane when he bought the ticket.

JO: The family connections to the plane - none of which anyone has acknowledged. His brother and his Uncle were involved with Boeing and the 727 - only the builders, designers and others can comfirm this, but no one seemed to want to advance this subject. Then or now! How do we find the records. His brother was living inWA at that time and working with Boeing. Old friends of the family lived in WA and worked with and for Boeing.


7. Cooper had to have known the area.

JO: He was imprisoned there and he stayed in the area in the 40 and then back to the area in the 50's and his wife had connections to WA
.
8. Cooper held back as last to board, like he was afraid of being I.D.ed.

JO: definitely was afraid someone might remember him.

9. He had knowledge of the plane - how?

JO: YES per answers to the above questions. His brother who knew Gilliam were intimately involved with Boeing.

10. What drove him to choose that plane, Wa and that particular flight.

JO: ALL of the above, plus it was a place he felt good about - it was a place he had fond memories of and it was his choice to die there if that was his intention...Knowledge of the area and perhaps Thankgiving because he had NO Family to turn to and the desparation of his situtation - pehaps he blamed his mother whose best friedn lived in WA. The friend who was indirectly responsible for his family moving to CA. It was a place of HAPPY MEMORIES! It was the place people reach out to help him...and a place he fell in love with. The look on his face when we there in 1979 was one of fond memories and not just of the skyjacking - he was reliving his prior past there.

Just my two Cents worth.

A. Try to find anyone who remembers his Mother - Loraine Beechler Weber with also Wenz.

B. Who was Phil Harris - he was a jumper and that is all I know. He was Duane's age?

C. Who was Pennington - also a jumper who was Duane's age?

D. Who was Ed Huran? A man who had a past with WA, but that is probably not his real name...40's/50's/60's Not before and not later.

F. What was Duane's connections to Puyallup?

G. What was Duane's connections to Spokane and Coure d Alene?

H. Duane had 2 son-in-laws in WA in the late 60's/early 70's - one at McChord.

J. Duane knew every tower and every creek, Power line, Dams and the Microwave towers and bodies of water and cemetaries and gravel pitts. He didn't use a map in 1979.

K. What was so fascinating about a place behind the Seattle Airport that used to be an old hotel...two stories high and in 1979 had been converted to office building?

L. Who did he know at the Shnomisk Airstrip just north of Seattle?

J. Who did he fly with up and down the coast line on trips to Alaska and what kind of experiments was he talking about? Something about he made a mistake with a knot in a rope.

k. How did he know were all of the camps were?

L. How and why was he so familiar with The Dalles, Goldendale, Vancouver, Woodlands (a place all the guys used to eat).

M. An area over on the Beach - a park they worked on and stayed at.

N. Every high place and every tower - and he spewed off the name like he had been there for every.

M. ALL of the power lines and Pipelines/

N. Bar - Dollars Corner, inside the Washougal loop and Orchards.

O. Every small airport & strip and every tower.

K. A house off of LaCames Lake and the name of the boys.

L. The caretaker at the Ledbetter home.

M. The rails and the rail cars

N. Battleground Lake and ever kind of Tower.

O. Camps and fishing cottages.

P. How the power was controled for the DAMs.

Q. He told me all about the dams and how they were built and the channels.

R. The boys at Beacon Rock and the Washougal and the beach.

S. That a certain musician gave his firs live performance in The Dalles.

T. The boys who picked apples and worked the CC's at Mt. Hood.

U. The small airports in WA and Oregon...the place the boys used to eat at - in a town near.

Of course, I have no answers for you, Mrs Cooper, and I truly doubt that you desire any from those of us here at the DZ. Nevertheless, I would love to hear more about your dreams and what comes up when you sprinkle oatmeal flakes.

Bruce did you read HA HA HA by DB COOPER yet

OK JO OK OK you get one shot if you tell me the name of the hamburger joint across the street from the bar that Kenneth and his partner would go at DOLLAR'S corner. D W might have known Kenneth you get 3 min thats it
JO

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[GreyCopGC148 0]

GreyCopGC148

*********Had to buy a new MOUSE today. My old mouse went by the wayside....this new wireless is getting best out of my old fingers and my joints. Still have the old pad thing so maybe I need a new one that is easier to slide on. Using the top of the desk I am flying all over the place.

Just too OLD for all of these new gadgets.

We have explored many things about the skyjacking but we have done little about WHY he chose the things he chose.
1. N.W Airlines?

JO: I think he was familiar with them and had worked on the planes in some capacity such as a Catering Service, Cleaning service & maintenance maybe even service the Oxygen tanks.

2. The WA area?

JO: Weber had a history in WA with people, forestry, prisons and a personal relationship with some one who lived there.

3. Why he chose NOV 24 - Thaimportant to him such as his birthdate nkgiving eve.

JO: The death of someone close to him or a date that was very - I think some how the 24th was symbolic and remember Thankgiving didn't fall on that day every yr.


4. The Grudge thing was just a reply to some thing Tina asked - but what was his reason for skyjacking a plane?

JO: Yrs spent in prison and it started in WA - and probably the best yrs of his life.

5. Did Cooper just throw a dart at a map?

JO: I do NOT believe WA was just a random selections. He knew happiness there and perhaps that is where he wanted to die. Plus he had just had the polycystic kidney disease comfirmed the yr before in GA.


6. That particular plane - this was evident as he verified the type of plane when he bought the ticket.

JO: The family connections to the plane - none of which anyone has acknowledged. His brother and his Uncle were involved with Boeing and the 727 - only the builders, designers and others can comfirm this, but no one seemed to want to advance this subject. Then or now! How do we find the records. His brother was living inWA at that time and working with Boeing. Old friends of the family lived in WA and worked with and for Boeing.


7. Cooper had to have known the area.

JO: He was imprisoned there and he stayed in the area in the 40 and then back to the area in the 50's and his wife had connections to WA
.
8. Cooper held back as last to board, like he was afraid of being I.D.ed.

JO: definitely was afraid someone might remember him.

9. He had knowledge of the plane - how?

JO: YES per answers to the above questions. His brother who knew Gilliam were intimately involved with Boeing.

10. What drove him to choose that plane, Wa and that particular flight.

JO: ALL of the above, plus it was a place he felt good about - it was a place he had fond memories of and it was his choice to die there if that was his intention...Knowledge of the area and perhaps Thankgiving because he had NO Family to turn to and the desparation of his situtation - pehaps he blamed his mother whose best friedn lived in WA. The friend who was indirectly responsible for his family moving to CA. It was a place of HAPPY MEMORIES! It was the place people reach out to help him...and a place he fell in love with. The look on his face when we there in 1979 was one of fond memories and not just of the skyjacking - he was reliving his prior past there.

Just my two Cents worth.

A. Try to find anyone who remembers his Mother - Loraine Beechler Weber with also Wenz.

B. Who was Phil Harris - he was a jumper and that is all I know. He was Duane's age?

C. Who was Pennington - also a jumper who was Duane's age?

D. Who was Ed Huran? A man who had a past with WA, but that is probably not his real name...40's/50's/60's Not before and not later.

F. What was Duane's connections to Puyallup?

G. What was Duane's connections to Spokane and Coure d Alene?

H. Duane had 2 son-in-laws in WA in the late 60's/early 70's - one at McChord.

J. Duane knew every tower and every creek, Power line, Dams and the Microwave towers and bodies of water and cemetaries and gravel pitts. He didn't use a map in 1979.

K. What was so fascinating about a place behind the Seattle Airport that used to be an old hotel...two stories high and in 1979 had been converted to office building?

L. Who did he know at the Shnomisk Airstrip just north of Seattle?

J. Who did he fly with up and down the coast line on trips to Alaska and what kind of experiments was he talking about? Something about he made a mistake with a knot in a rope.

k. How did he know were all of the camps were?

L. How and why was he so familiar with The Dalles, Goldendale, Vancouver, Woodlands (a place all the guys used to eat).

M. An area over on the Beach - a park they worked on and stayed at.

N. Every high place and every tower - and he spewed off the name like he had been there for every.

M. ALL of the power lines and Pipelines/

N. Bar - Dollars Corner, inside the Washougal loop and Orchards.

O. Every small airport & strip and every tower.

K. A house off of LaCames Lake and the name of the boys.

L. The caretaker at the Ledbetter home.

M. The rails and the rail cars

N. Battleground Lake and ever kind of Tower.

O. Camps and fishing cottages.

P. How the power was controled for the DAMs.

Q. He told me all about the dams and how they were built and the channels.

R. The boys at Beacon Rock and the Washougal and the beach.

S. That a certain musician gave his firs live performance in The Dalles.

T. The boys who picked apples and worked the CC's at Mt. Hood.

U. The small airports in WA and Oregon...the place the boys used to eat at - in a town near.

Of course, I have no answers for you, Mrs Cooper, and I truly doubt that you desire any from those of us here at the DZ. Nevertheless, I would love to hear more about your dreams and what comes up when you sprinkle oatmeal flakes.

Bruce did you read HA HA HA by DB COOPER yet

OK JO OK OK you get one shot if you tell me the name of the hamburger joint across the street from the bar that Kenneth and his partner would go at DOLLAR'S corner. D W might have known Kenneth you get 3 min thats it
JO

Sorry but it was O BRAID'S or BRAIDS the vanilla shakes were KENNETH's Favorite if you go north and down the hill you will be at Day Break park and under the little bridge that goes over the Lewis river is were he had his 3 set of dry clothes that night
But I didn't know him the Gray Cop

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

Recently, I sent Tom Kaye a detailed email stating some reasons I thought he and his Citizen Sleuths team should put in a request to the Seattle FBI to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute.

He's told me previously he doesn't mind if I post his email responses to my questions here at Dropzone, as long as I don't change anything. So here is his exact response:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. I am not even sure it's in the Seattle office.'

Just thought you should see it. That is the complete message.

that's all fine and dandy. this is an open investigation, I doubt they will let anyone just look over things. basically all evidence is off, not just the chute. we also know Tom Kaye was not denied access to the chute as you claimed he was.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

Recently, I sent Tom Kaye a detailed email stating some reasons I thought he and his Citizen Sleuths team should put in a request to the Seattle FBI to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute.

He's told me previously he doesn't mind if I post his email responses to my questions here at Dropzone, as long as I don't change anything. So here is his exact response:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. I am not even sure it's in the Seattle office.'

Just thought you should see it. That is the complete message.

why?

[skyjack71 0]

***
Per a letter to his mother, it seems Duane willingly went into the Army, but one has to wonder! He got kicked out in a few wks and we never could find out if it was something he did or if they found out about the Bad Conduct Discharge from the Navy!

They are investigating Weber for the first unsolved skyjacking and they can't even get his criminal and military records straight....
AND without the letter he wrote from the base we never would have found his Army records! Acutally ALL we got was the serial number - the standard form.

Take a GOOD look at the history of CAMP Siebert! THE FBI and the VA denied his Army Status even after I had the papers from Washington and until I took action myself in 2000!

THE Army record remained a puzzle, but it is NO puzzle anymore. Duane's existence at Camp Siebert was denied until I produced the letter. This has bugged me all of these yrs.

What was so secret about his supposed army record that could not be released? The military just cannot keep up with the internet.

There is NO reason for there NOT being a record and then finding a record after I produced the letter.
Plus there WAS NO reason to withhold the file from me at that point.

Weber was a guinea pig at Camp Seibert and not in Chemical Warfare Training as his letter to his mother indicated. He needed his watch - not for timing, but to protect himself with. I thought the letter sound ODD - he was writing in code. Why did she send him a dollar? It was war time and the guys were sending money home and no one was sending money to the service person.

Read some of the letters sent home by the CO's. Some of them have a very similar sound to them.
Read about the experiments they conducted on the CO's!

A friend of the family saw Duane at Camp Siebert and contacted his brother.

Perhap Duane decide Jail was better than what he was facing. I and others could not figure out how he got into the Army after being kicked out of the Navy. A part of Camp Siebert was a big secret.

Other CO's wrote home similar letters as they could NOT tell what was being done to them....these guys chose to let horrible things be done to them rather than have to KILL someone else.

I was never able to understand the range of friends Duane had - ex-cons - I understood, but some of the others - I was never able to wrap my mind around. His compassion for others and yet he was a common criminal....he was a bad guy, but he never harmed anyone.

You are on the streets and you are hungry & cold - you can't get a job picking apples because you have a record. One thing led to another and another. Definitely Duane had some behaviour problems early on as a child and yet, he was a GOOD person. All of that seemed alien to me when I found out about the extensive prison records.

I have spent a lot of time trying to understand his records and what happened to him. Even the FBI and the authorities over the yrs - were confused regarding this man's
records...they were very convoluted.

TSo - yea, I guess you could say he had a grudge. Why - WA, because it was the ONLY good yrs of his life up until 1971. His yrs with THE GUYS and then HE reconnects with the GUYS for a couple of yrs as JOHN....makes some good money and then tries to go straight. The Italian in KANSAS got him the job selling insurance with friend of his - Pyramid LIFE. Well, Duane had some hard times and he was dipping his hands into the company money - so he went back to prison....but that was the LAST time.

He knew if he stayed with the current wife - he would be right back in prison - but in the short term he had little choices...

The cycle would go on and on for ever. No one would hire him with his record - he had screwed up his life. He had been in the hospital and it was confirmed that he did INDEED have the same disease his mother died of. He was angry about his life and about his choices.

When he made the decision to pull the big one - that was made in JEFFERSON. Was there another party - maybe. The Story moves on to AL and then in the fall of 1971 - he just walked out the door and didn't go back....he couldn't provide for his step children or his wife or himself.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...Bruce did you read HA HA HA by DB COOPER yet..."

Nope.

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

***

Of course, I have no answers for you, Mrs Cooper, and I truly doubt that you desire any from those of us here at the DZ. Nevertheless, I would love to hear more about your dreams and what comes up when you sprinkle oatmeal flakes.

Jo, did you do the oatmeal tests but substituting Fiber One and Wheaties as requested?

My diet is 100% Gluten Free!
So are my tests and my cooking. I can make some mean pancakes without Gluten and Cookies to die for.

I make my recipes up myself - the beat the hell out of the ones in the books.

Mostly fruits and vegetables and a small amount to meat. The gluten free cakes are a big flopp - 8 yrs at this and they are edibile but not repeatable.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

skyjack71

***
If I had to make a bet I would place my money on a SOG guy, but more elite and more specialized, like Super-SOG. Maybe someone like a member of a Bright Light team that went into North Vietnam to extract downed pilots. Such a fellow might also be familiar with the 727s being used in that theater to insert CIA combat teams and supplies.

No wonder you are broke & walk over the obvious forgetting to look down. Those trigger wires are very elusive.
Boom!


Why should I look down? I anticipate levitating, soon.

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

******Recently, I sent Tom Kaye a detailed email stating some reasons I thought he and his Citizen Sleuths team should put in a request to the Seattle FBI to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute.

He's told me previously he doesn't mind if I post his email responses to my questions here at Dropzone, as long as I don't change anything. So here is his exact response:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. I am not even sure it's in the Seattle office.'

Just thought you should see it. That is the complete message.

that's all fine and dandy. this is an open investigation, I doubt they will let anyone just look over things. basically all evidence is off, not just the chute. we also know Tom Kaye was not denied access to the chute as you claimed he was.

Uh....REALLY? He just SAID he was. (denied access)

As far as the Sleuths being allowed to 'look over things,' they were already allowed full access to the tie, the money, the other parachute, etc. There is a website with all the reports and conclusions, including the team's standing offer stating they would like to examine the chute. I think that's plain enough.

Look Blevins, We speaka'di engwich too!

The issue is your pejorative word - DENY! Full of MOTIVES you
can do paper hanging on in addition to remodeling-cleaning.

Nowhere in Kaye's reply is the word "no" or "deny" used.

What he says is he "begged" (which is kind of funny), "to no
avail" (which is funnier) ... and "chute may not even be in
Seattle" (which is funniest!). Sounds like a hard day at Citizen
Sleuth Corral!

You write it up as DENIED BY F.B.I.

Your mind reading and motives detector is not working.

Maybe it's YOU with all the MOTIVES ?

DENY DENY DENY! ... FREDDIE IS THE DEVIL!

Try tele-pathy and bones and chicken entrails.

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

******Recently, I sent Tom Kaye a detailed email stating some reasons I thought he and his Citizen Sleuths team should put in a request to the Seattle FBI to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute.

He's told me previously he doesn't mind if I post his email responses to my questions here at Dropzone, as long as I don't change anything. So here is his exact response:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. I am not even sure it's in the Seattle office.'

Just thought you should see it. That is the complete message.

that's all fine and dandy. this is an open investigation, I doubt they will let anyone just look over things. basically all evidence is off, not just the chute. we also know Tom Kaye was not denied access to the chute as you claimed he was.

Uh....REALLY? He just SAID he was. (denied access)

As far as the Sleuths being allowed to 'look over things,' they were already allowed full access to the tie, the money, the other parachute, etc. There is a website with all the reports and conclusions, including the team's standing offer stating they would like to examine the chute. I think that's plain enough.


Uh, this was after his testing with the FBI. you were claiming he was DENIED during his investigation while looking over the evidence. don't try to merge that with what you originally said. you are on record 3 different times stating Tom was not allowed to view the chute.

May 12, 2012
Robert said: In addition, although researcher Tom Kaye and his Citizen Sleuths team were allowed access to much of the Cooper evidence, the Seattle FBI completely stonewalled them regarding the Amboy chute.

Monday January 13, 2014
I asked Tom Kaye if he was DENIED access to the chute during his investigation with the FBI. he replied. "We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed"

To further clarify things that you are clearly fogging up. the access to the chute (Today) also includes the rest of the evidence. stop trying to make it look like people are only DENIED access to the chute.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

I wonder what would happen if Mr. Blevins walked into the Seattle office an asked to see the tie, or the plane ticket? do ya think they would just whip it right on out? I'm sure they wouldn't. instead of saying he was denied access to the evidence, he would start claiming he was denied only those two pieces of evidence. this is exactly how rumors begin.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

mrshutter45

I wonder what would happen if Mr. Blevins walked into the Seattle office an asked to see the tie, or the plane ticket? do ya think they would just whip it right on out? I'm sure they wouldn't. instead of saying he was denied access to the evidence, he would start claiming he was denied only those two pieces of evidence. this is exactly how rumors begin.

who knows -

[ParrotheadVol 70]

377

What ever happened to Dan Cryder? He was gonna solve the case for us. He is famous in DC 3 circles, owning and flying a very nice example.

377

Dan Gryder (Dangerous Dan on DZ) put out a video on YouTube in Nov of 2011 I believe. He said in his video that he would tell everyone who Cooper was in 2012. Of course, 2012 came and went without anything new from Gryder. He would occasionally respond to comments on his video, but I can't seem to find the video on YouTube any longer. I always thought his suspect was McCoy, though he never confirmed this. If I can find his video, I'll ask him if he ever plans on spilling the beans.

I don't think McCoy was Cooper. His was too close to Coopers hijacking and I think he would have been positively ID'd by witnesses that saw Cooper.

But I will say this about McCoy: We know he could do the jump, we know he had the motive and most importantly, we know he had the balls to do it. We don't know these three things about any of the other suspects.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

***I wonder what would happen if Mr. Blevins walked into the Seattle office an asked to see the tie, or the plane ticket? do ya think they would just whip it right on out? I'm sure they wouldn't. instead of saying he was denied access to the evidence, he would start claiming he was denied only those two pieces of evidence. this is exactly how rumors begin.

Oh, come on. You are shooting the messenger again and ignoring the message.

I quoted Kaye's email, which is plain enough as I said.

The standing offer to examine has been on Kaye's website for years now.

You are going to the wrong person on this issue. If you want clarification on exactly when and under what circumstances Curtis Eng refused to let Kaye have access to the Amboy chute, you should be contacting Tom Kaye.

We're not talking about ME walking into the FBI office and asking to look at it. I am not a parachute expert. I would be of no use in identifying its nature. I was not a part of a team already allowed to examine all the other evidence without restrictions. That would be Kaye, Alan Stone, and Carol Abraczinskas. To suggest that these same people be allowed to examine the chute (something they obviously want to do) is perfectly reasonable.


Oh come on nothing Robert. this whole argument stems from you claiming Tom didn't have access during his investigation. everyone should realize they are not going to allow anyone else to look at the evidence. this includes everything they have. you are twisting the entire argument which was about Tom being denied the access.

the FBI denied Tom access after the fact. it's not a department store with returns, or return visits. you are putting a dark cloud over only the access to the chute. that is misleading. nobody is allowed access to any of the evidence. period.


how do you know they didn't send the chute out for testing and concluded from there? why would they send the chute of no value back to Seattle, or was it not safe there being known it was Cooper's? lmao

further more...you add: That would be Kaye, Alan Stone, and Carol Abraczinskas. To suggest that these same people be allowed to examine the chute (something they obviously want to do) is perfectly reasonable.

again, you are speculating on what the FBI should do in order to please Robert Blevins. they didn't have to access the evidence to anyone, but they did. then you want more, and more. it's an open case. the are not legally bound to produce anything. this doesn't mean the are hiding, or covering something up.

They give two shits what you think is reasonable. you are doing the samething Robert by refusing to answer questions about KC. stop your whining already.

Added.
Robert says: I am not a parachute expert.

Is Tom Kaye?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

ParrotheadVol

***What ever happened to Dan Cryder? He was gonna solve the case for us. He is famous in DC 3 circles, owning and flying a very nice example.

377

Dan Gryder (Dangerous Dan on DZ) put out a video on YouTube in Nov of 2011 I believe. He said in his video that he would tell everyone who Cooper was in 2012. Of course, 2012 came and went without anything new from Gryder. He would occasionally respond to comments on his video, but I can't seem to find the video on YouTube any longer. I always thought his suspect was McCoy, though he never confirmed this. If I can find his video, I'll ask him if he ever plans on spilling the beans.

I don't think McCoy was Cooper. His was too close to Coopers hijacking and I think he would have been positively ID'd by witnesses that saw Cooper.

But I will say this about McCoy: We know he could do the jump, we know he had the motive and most importantly, we know he had the balls to do it. We don't know these three things about any of the other suspects.

As you know, I always toyed with the idea that Cooper knew
McCoy, was in the background somewhere, got the idea from
listening to McCoy 'bloviate', and then beat McCoy by acting
first! All based on McCoy's position around other people in
training and McCoy's bad habit of talking too much...

Based somewhat on Cooper's 'conservative' dress, which may
now be plainly wrong if Mitchell is correct.

Based also on the general fact McCoy refused to say anything
about the Cooper hijacking, including if he had any ideas about
who Cooper was - a story we also don't know the full details of,
so the story could be myth.

There are so many 'what-ifs' and assumptions in the Cooper
case it's hard to get your hands around anything as 'core facts'.

Here's one: Did they dig and probe around and under the Amboy
chute find? Yes.

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

***I wonder what would happen if Mr. Blevins walked into the Seattle office an asked to see the tie, or the plane ticket? do ya think they would just whip it right on out? I'm sure they wouldn't. instead of saying he was denied access to the evidence, he would start claiming he was denied only those two pieces of evidence. this is exactly how rumors begin.

Oh, come on. You are shooting the messenger again and ignoring the message.

I quoted Kaye's email, which is plain enough as I said.

The standing offer to examine has been on Kaye's website for years now.

You are going to the wrong person on this issue. If you want clarification on exactly when and under what circumstances Curtis Eng refused to let Kaye have access to the Amboy chute, you should be contacting Tom Kaye.

We're not talking about ME walking into the FBI office and asking to look at it. I am not a parachute expert. I would be of no use in identifying its nature. I was not a part of a team already allowed to examine all the other evidence without restrictions. That would be Kaye, Alan Stone, and Carol Abraczinskas. To suggest that these same people be allowed to examine the chute (something they obviously want to do) is perfectly reasonable.

YES! You finally have something right! We are shooting the messenger, because ....

HE KEEPS BRINGING THE WRONG OR FALSE MESSAGES. NOT TO
MENTION STUFFING OIL-SOAKED INCENDIARY RAGS OF COOPER
VERBIAGE IN THE CRAWL SPACES IN THE INTERNET BOILER
ROOM & IN THE DESKS OF PEOPLE YOU DON'T LIKE, SENDING
AND RE-SENDING PHONY OFFICIAL MEMOS TO PEOPLE!?, AND
FLYING DRONES OVER PEOPLE'S HOUSES AND SPYING ON THEM
... AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT ELSE!!!

YOU'RE FIRED!

GOOD LUCK ELSEWHERE IN THE COOPER CLEANING INDUSTRY...

ANY LAST WORDS ... ?

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...There are so many 'what-ifs' and assumptions in the Cooper
case it's hard to get your hands around anything as 'core facts'.

Here's one: Did they dig and probe around and under the Amboy
chute find? Yes...."

Can you tell me who was involved with the dig? I'd love to talk with them. Also, where did they dig and why it is so hush-hush these days? Thanks.

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, what about the four letters? do they have absolute evidence pointing to Cooper writing them? other than Paul trying to prove them. why don't they explain those letters? why don't they check for DNA? are they covering that up as well? or is there something we don't know that prevents them from checking the validation of the letters?

why won't they show exactly how they concluded where Cooper jumped? what are they afraid of. are they covering it up? or did they calculate it wrong? there is no way to tell since the refuse to discuss that as well. where is good pictures of the search area maps?

It does matter a whole lot about you claiming that Tom was denied the chute during his investigation. it puts false beliefs into people not up to date with the case. darkness, drama, deception. it aggravates those who do know.

you are twisting what is reality Robert. your going to be stonewalled on access to all the evidence. not just the chute. I believe they could of explained it better, but this doesn't mean it was Cooper's chute. they just don't see things the way you want them to be seen. they could care less what we think.

some of the things I have knowledge of in the last week tell a completely different story to what is in the papers. documented evidence. especially one's you thought were totally ridiculous.

personally, I think it boils down to what they really know about the case vs what we think we know about the case. I do agree they have explaining to do on certain things, but I think it's more of the way the whole thing was handled. I don't believe at this point that they are intentionally covering things up. I do leave room for things being wrong, but based on what I've read about the Amboy chute and documented evidence showing more than one person involved viewing the chute. I can only agree at this point it doesn't seem to be anything but a lost parachute from a period in time to be unknown.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

RobertMBlevins

Shutter says in part:

. It just seems strange that Eng and the Seattle FBI would turn over everything EXCEPT that chute, and then completely refuse Tom access when he asked.

Blevins surmises: "everything EXCEPT that chute ?"

Where in blazes did you get that!? Stop making shit up.

Where do you get this silly idea Tom and Gray were given
access to EVERTHING EXCEPT ...

For one, you don't have the faintest idea what there is to get
access to !!!!! And neither do Tom or Gray, which has been
proven over and over and over.



Yankee Doodle came to town
riding on his pony
stuck a feather in his hat
and called it
EVER-THANG BUT THE CHOOTE!
How you ask?
He read the pony's mind!

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

Geez...you guys act as if you've never seen the Citizen Sleuths website! You know perfectly well that the CS was allowed access to the tie, the other parachute, the money samples...which is basically (except for the ticket, which I can't recall at the moment if they were allowed to examine) pretty much everything that Larry Carr presented as evidence. Get real.

Geez-us H. Frickin' Christo...you should be talking to Kaye about this stuff. All I did was copy over a short message from him. Last time I will do that, I assure you.

From the CS website:

Quote

'In 2007, through the efforts of Special Agent Larry Carr, the Cooper case was opened to the public and our group was allowed special access to the evidence and the files in the FBI archive...'

where did I say they were not allowed to see the tie? or any other evidence like the ticket etc. please show me this.

also, I realize that quote was taken from the website. when what day/month/year was CS at the FBI. 2007? when was the chute found?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

you always have time Blevins. I didn't realize you knew the truth lol.

Truth like this?
Kenny paid $16,500 cash for his home.
Kenny paid $10 for the lot behind the house.
Kenny had almost $200,000 before died. no reason for it.
Tom Kaye was denied access to the Amboy chute during his investigation.

that kind of truth lol....no thanks.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI