DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Another poster was talking about SOG below:

Quote

Consider the SOG guys. Do you really think those guys would talk about a brother who pulled off the Cooper heist? How about the elite elements of SOG - the Super-SOG guys, whose lives depend on silence every day and routinely don't speak to anyone about their work. Sure Billy Waugh and John Plaster told me about the rumors of Ted Braden, but now that I'm digging into it they are much less chatty, and Billy has effectively clammed-up on me.

Must be burning the minutes up. Claiming he spoke with Waugh and Plaster - Perhaps he can get them to look at this baby and tell me what it is all about!

Waugh came to this thread or the other Cooper thread, but didn't stay very long. I also spoke to him a couple of times on the phone Yrs ago, but Dumb Broads do not know how to handle these thing & now we know rattling the china does not work either.

Since that time - I made a picture of MOUSE. But, I really don't think Mouse had anything to do with SOG.

Perhaps if Cooper was ever any part of a group - it was a renegade group and completely under the table - paid theives. Give us 6 months or 18 months and we will give you 5K - that was a lot of money in the early 60's for an ex-con to start his life over with. I have NO ideas about any of this and one can barely believe the things we read on the internet such as the site 377 directed us to last night.

But here is MOUSE again~!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

I've also had some thoughts about the infamous paper bag and what may have been in it, and why:

What was in the bag? First, here's WHY he brought the bag:

Just in case he decided to call the whole thing off. Yes, that's right. I think Cooper did not fully decide to go ahead with his plan until AFTER he boarded. In other words, he was looking for something that may have forced him to call the whole thing off. What that is, I am not sure. In the case of suspect Christiansen, my guess would be in case he recognized any of the crew or any of the passengers. If so, he couldn't do it.

What was in the bag?

My best guess is goggles, a pair of light boots, flashlight, compass, and map. Maybe a sandwich. No one knows exactly what he was doing back there after Mucklow went forward and closed the curtain. Maybe he was switching shoes and stuffing the rest of the contents of the paper bag into the money sack. I don't think a SOG guy would come with a paper bag. .....

Just to keep this from going the myth direction....from all reports it was a "small" paper sack. Ckret even specifically said it was too small to have a change of clothes - much less all and sundry as per above. I'm trying to find the actual size - can't remember off the top of my head if it was ever stated - I know the dimensions of the money bag were listed - just not sure about paper bag.

On another note....I am seriously thinking about compiling a data base of what the transcripts say vs what the FBI agents say vs what the different authors say about certain items. What is speculation (aka myth) vs high probables based on logic vs fact (if such a thing exists). This has been tried before but in a limited fashion - I suspect it will be way too time consuming.

I have read all of the major books about the hijacking and they ALL contradict each other and the "official" version on various points.

Interesting: I was looking over an interview that Geoff Gray did with the folks at WSHS and Gray was asked about any surprises he got when he was allowed into the inner sanctum. An excerpt from here.... http://collections.washingtonhistory.org/emuwebwshs/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=19946

Quote

".....And ironically, one of the things I also found in the file…the reason why “DB Cooper” was “DB Cooper,” and the real name of Dan Cooper did not come out, was that the FBI didn’t want the public to know the hijacker used the name Dan Cooper. They wanted to use that piece of information to their benefit, hoping to use it, weed out different kinds of suspects, once they maybe had collared somebody.
So the FBI purposely withheld the real identity, or the real alias that the hijacker used…for years and years and years…Until, it finally came out. And even after it came out, nobody put it together that actually Dan Cooper was a very critical and not the most important lead/clue in the case, and Dan Cooper was not just an ordinary alias......"

Now why would someone say that when all you have to do is look up newspapers from as early as the day after the hijacking and find the name Dan Cooper. Newspapers even carried stories about the name discrepancy. "Sorry Dan...Cooper gets "B" in Hijacking" was the headline in one newspaper (the Oregonian on Dec 23, 1971).

Gray then goes on and basically attributes the alias Dan Cooper to the comic book. Now it might one day be proven so - several people, including moi are diligently trying to prove or disprove the comic book connection as I type -- but as of today, there is NO WAY for Geoff Gray or anyone else to know this as a fact. It is still in the myth column no matter how you slice it.

I get the selling books thing - I really do - and to some extent we are hostage to them (pun intended) because several were privy to the files. But a word of caution.... if you are serious about getting your DB Cooper on, you gotta know you cannot take any of the books written to date totally at face value. There is no "Cooper royalty" cause even the ones who supposedly got the inside scoop get it wrong.
And that one goes in the fact column.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

Approximate dimensions of bag are listed here and there as 4" x 12" x 14".

I have no idea on the order of these numbers regarding height, width, or length. I would *guess* four inches wide, twelve inches in length, and 14 inches in height. If those numbers are correct, it probably wasn't lunch-sized. Sounds a lot like a typical shopping bag with the top rolled over.
Too bad it didn't say 'Bonney Lake Grocery' on it... Damn.

Never mind I found it..

The first kraft paper lunch size bag I came across on the WWW was 5” wide x 3.25” deep x 9.75" high. Your dimensions still wouldn't hold a bunch of stuff.
Even so - I wouldn't classify a "typical" shopping bag (grocery) as a "small" bag. Medium sized maybe.
And so, again - I'm just pointing out, for the record, that the paper bag was described as "small" and probably would not be holding a bunch of items if two of those items were boots. Or 1 boot and a flashlight. Or a pair of long johns and a pair of goggles. Or a sandwich and a inflatable raft.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[airtwardo 7]

propblast

*********

Quote

"...Completely agree. I have jumped with a bit of weight before. Getting the load symmetrical and tight are so important. I can't see it being done in the fashion claimed without a lot of luck...."

How about pulling on the stairs and letting the canopy squid out into the slip stream, thus getting pulled off the stairs and avoiding the tumble through the slipstream?

377 has given a very comprehensive analysis of this method of exiting a 727, replete with videos of training missions in Cambodia during the Vietnam War where troopers exhibited this style of jumping from a 727.

Different style of jumping in those videos...( unless it's a set I haven't seen)That plane was going super slow and was rigged for dropping. But as stated above, who knows anything is possible. I just wanted to talk about the skydiving aspect of this mystery.


Eh, propster, it sounds like you are equivocating....

If Cooper knew more about the 727 than the pilots or Northwest Orient, don't you think he knew how to exit safely with twenty pounds of twenties?

C'mon, put your thinking cap on! Give it your best shot!

How would you do it, for instance?

I don't see where I'm waffling. Norjack wasn't rigged for a staticline drop.

I wouldn't have pulled this stunt. Two many variables. I have exited at high speed with a lot more weight. It can be an experience, even with the correct equipment.


I certainly wouldn't do a 'pull off' from a jet on a round...on purpose, and expect that it would any possible way - be easier, safer or smarter than a semi HALO.

Either way...having at least a vague reference of experience - can ya just imaging how that 550 tied not to the harness but around the waist, must have felt on opening shock!

Well Hell Slick, THAT'LL learn ya - - Bet ole D.B. ever did THAT again!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[smokin99 0]

This is a long read, but about a third of the way down the author starts to talk about the 1972 suspension of service in answer to skyjacking problem.

http://www.alpa.org/publications/Flying_The_Line_II/FTL2Chapter3.html
Excerpt.....

Quote

A series of skyjacking incidents, several of them desperate and dramatic, forced O’Donnell’s hand. Aware that something as radical as grounding an airliner to make a political point would be controversial with airline pilots, O’Donnell prepared for it in unusual ways. One innovative step, which Charles Dent (United) suggested to O’Donnell, was a celebrated B-747 ride ALPA sponsored for nearly 300 United Nations personnel on Nov. 6, 1971.

The short flight from New York to Montreal in the rented Pan Am B-747 (piloted by Stan Doepke of Pan Am) had as its purpose to intensively lobby influential politicians from all over the world to pass ALPA’s “T-Plus” antiskyjacking program. Put simply, T-Plus was a comprehensive set of laws, penalties, and procedures for dealing with skyjacking. Among those being lobbied was future U.S. President George Bush, then U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Placing these world political leaders in a controlled and dramatic situation where they could hear the stories of more than 30 crewmembers who had been skyjacked (including pilots from recently defected American Airlines—with full approval of their ALPA-clone, the Allied Pilots Association)—won unanimous support among rank-and-file pilots.........

.........All the international politicians who accepted ALPA’s hospitality on the Montreal excursion went home vowing immediate action by their countries. And nothing happened! Despite rave reviews in the press, heavy television news coverage, and all the back-slapping support, nothing happened! Terrorism slackened not at all, and skyjackings continued. The international community, for all the oral assurances that their U.N. representatives gave during the joyride to Montreal (complete with lavish meals at ALPA’s expense), resisted a coordinated attack on skyjacking......."

It continues on..with the unions strategy from that point.....
Interesting read.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Yeah I realize that. If you read the piece though, it shows the pilots frustration with the problem and the way they deal with it. In the context of all that it makes it a little easier to at least "consider" the concept of an inside job.. Just thought it was interesting

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Joachim77 0]

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground he probably survived. But he would loose some of his belongings on the way down,- clothing, glasses, shoe(s), or other items that would eventually be found. No such things surfaced. So.. he landed in a lake or river. (and froze to death). But then the parachute - because of it's size and white/light color would be spotted by divers. Didn't happen. Ergo: He didn't get his chute open, landed in water and sank with his belongings.

Some people went missing, but Melvin Wilson a couple of months before the incident. (Vicki W's father was mentioned, who's he?)

Then further on my hypothesis: The alias Dan Cooper is not a coincident. He came across the comic somewhere it was sold. So there is a french-canadian OR a francophone european link, and then Belgium/Brussels most likely.

So my question: Have potential canadian citizens (living after 1971 or missing) been looked at? Have any of the known suspects - Kenny, Weber, Mc Coy etc. a french-canadian connection? Or were any of them at some point stationed in Brussels (Nato HQ) or in France, Luxembourg, Switzerland?

A guess: He is (was) a canadian with local knowledge. Unless Canadian authorities were involved in the investigation, he went under the radar of the US.

OR:

He was a belgian citizen that lived for some time in the area before the crime. French was not his mother tongue because they have a really hard time speaking without an accent. But flemish (belgian dutch) is easier to camouflage.

[propblast 0]

Airtwardo,

Shows how much that I know. I thought he tied it to his harness. Around his waist is even more ridiculous. The burns and bruising would have been great. 550 as you know is not friendly at that speed. Even doing a pull off, ouch.

And so it goes....

Propblast

[mrshutter45 21]

airtwardo

************

Quote

"...Completely agree. I have jumped with a bit of weight before. Getting the load symmetrical and tight are so important. I can't see it being done in the fashion claimed without a lot of luck...."

How about pulling on the stairs and letting the canopy squid out into the slip stream, thus getting pulled off the stairs and avoiding the tumble through the slipstream?

377 has given a very comprehensive analysis of this method of exiting a 727, replete with videos of training missions in Cambodia during the Vietnam War where troopers exhibited this style of jumping from a 727.

Different style of jumping in those videos...( unless it's a set I haven't seen)That plane was going super slow and was rigged for dropping. But as stated above, who knows anything is possible. I just wanted to talk about the skydiving aspect of this mystery.


Eh, propster, it sounds like you are equivocating....

If Cooper knew more about the 727 than the pilots or Northwest Orient, don't you think he knew how to exit safely with twenty pounds of twenties?

C'mon, put your thinking cap on! Give it your best shot!

How would you do it, for instance?

I don't see where I'm waffling. Norjack wasn't rigged for a staticline drop.

I wouldn't have pulled this stunt. Two many variables. I have exited at high speed with a lot more weight. It can be an experience, even with the correct equipment.


I certainly wouldn't do a 'pull off' from a jet on a round...on purpose, and expect that it would any possible way - be easier, safer or smarter than a semi HALO.

Either way...having at least a vague reference of experience - can ya just imaging how that 550 tied not to the harness but around the waist, must have felt on opening shock!

Well Hell Slick, THAT'LL learn ya - - Bet ole D.B. ever did THAT again!


The hijacking in 72 by McNally tells the story that the money, gun and his trousers were ripped away by the tremendous shock of the jet blast. what's interesting is where everything was found. (see attachment) he also requested directions on how to use a parachute.


Court Records:
At 3 a. m. on June 24th, en route to Canada, traveling at 10,000 feet and 263 knots true air speed and located 43 miles west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, and five miles south of Peru, Indiana, the captain noticed a shift in air pressure according to certain instrumentation, a Transponder system, that indicated to him that the hijacker had parachuted from the airplane. The jet then turned around and eventually landed in Chicago without the hijacker.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[hangdiver 1]

I'm posting this to explain how fast a spin in freefall or under our modern smaller canopies can happen and render you unconscious...which is related to Cooper jumping with an asymmetrical load/the money bag.

This phenomenon exists with tandem jumping...known as the side spin...when the passenger goes fetal with arms and legs out...think touching your toes.

This also happens under a small spinning canopy. here is a first hand experience that"s a bit long but explains how fast this can render a person unconscious.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4520694#4520694

This jumper was really lucky to not have died...there have been numerous fatalities from this spin/blackout phenomenon.

If Cooper had an asymmetrical load fastened to him that he couldn't jettison in a spin he would be unconscious in about 4-6 seconds...that's a guess based on tandem side spin videos I remember having to watch to become a Tandem Instructor.

I think the money find in the Columbia river points in that direction.

This of course is my opinion based how it was said he fastened the money bag.YMMV

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[skyjack71 0]

The bag was the size of the old paper bags in the store to put ice cream in.
It was folded over at the top. It was not one of the flimsy bags we get today.

I just got an email from Bruce he sent last night.

I cannot quote by law his email, but I can tell you it is 6 lines and WHEW!

He is investigating me and the DZ. He CLAIMS I knew Quade before I posted & convinced him to start the thread. Claimed it was my platform.

DUH! I do not know Quade but I did look him up - LONG after I was posting on the thread.

Bruce wanted to know if I got a "piece of the action" regarding revenues from the thread! It is I who OWE the DZ because of the contacts the made available to me thru the thread.

I have met many friends and recieved assistance on my plight from places I never even heard of.

The first and ONLY reason I came to the DZ was to locate old timers that might remember Duane. My reasons have increased 10 fold. This is where I have learned about the world of parachute jumpers.

I came looking for information on old jumpers - and have learned a lot from all of the informative indidividuals who post on the DZ.

Positive leads did come from the DZ - as some of the older jumpers did participate in the early 2000's but that has tapered to zero. The people I am looking for would be in their late 80's and thank heaven there was some of these jumpers still out there who told me stories I could never validate. ONLY one seemed to believe he knew Duane and that was early one out of AZ. He is now deceased.

Part of some renegade group in AZ of who came out of CA. Bikers, ex-cons, veterans, drug runners - evidentally a pretty rough group.

I received MANY leads & made friend all over regarding this and I made some enemies - but, such is life.

I was shocked that Bruce would ask questions demeaning the DZ & comments about it being a South African Corporations and asking if I was getting a piece of the action.

I am here for information and to find the secrets of the past and to keep others informed of the new stuff (not finding any new stuff lately), but if I could prove some of the old stuff it would become new stuff REAL FAST.
I read that sentence and my logic is what it is.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

skyjack71

The first and ONLY reason I came to the DZ was to locate old timers that might remember Duane. My reasons have increased 10 fold. This is where I have learned about the world of parachute jumpers.

I was shocked that Bruce would ask questions demeaning the DZ & comments about it being a South African Corporations . . . .

Jo, I thought that your previous claims were that you first learned about parachute jumpers from Duane when he told you about "all the fellows" he knew who were jumpers.

You don't state what questions Bruce asked that were "demeaning" to DZ. But the last I heard, DZ is in fact owned by a South African corporation.

Robert99

[georger 244]

Robert99

***

The first and ONLY reason I came to the DZ was to locate old timers that might remember Duane. My reasons have increased 10 fold. This is where I have learned about the world of parachute jumpers.

I was shocked that Bruce would ask questions demeaning the DZ & comments about it being a South African Corporations . . . .

Jo, I thought that your previous claims were that you first learned about parachute jumpers from Duane when he told you about "all the fellows" he knew who were jumpers.

You don't state what questions Bruce asked that were "demeaning" to DZ. But the last I heard, DZ is in fact owned by a South African corporation.

Robert99

Duane knew Sangria (sp?)

Duane had friends and an office in So Afrika.

Duane once tried to buy Dropzone!

Duane and Sangria used to jump together!

Jo has had lunch with Sangria, face to face, in So Afrika.
Easy walk from her office in So. Afrika!

Jo calls Sangria or Sangria's wife, every day.

[georger 244]

hangdiver

I'm posting this to explain how fast a spin in freefall or under our modern smaller canopies can happen and render you unconscious...which is related to Cooper jumping with an asymmetrical load/the money bag.

This phenomenon exists with tandem jumping...known as the side spin...when the passenger goes fetal with arms and legs out...think touching your toes.

This also happens under a small spinning canopy. here is a first hand experience that"s a bit long but explains how fast this can render a person unconscious.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4520694#4520694

This jumper was really lucky to not have died...there have been numerous fatalities from this spin/blackout phenomenon.

If Cooper had an asymmetrical load fastened to him that he couldn't jettison in a spin he would be unconscious in about 4-6 seconds...that's a guess based on tandem side spin videos I remember having to watch to become a Tandem Instructor.

I think the money find in the Columbia river points in that direction.

This of course is my opinion based how it was said he fastened the money bag.YMMV

hangdiver

admittedly the initial shock forces are great, however Tina only
saw C beginning to tie the bag around his waste. More than
enough time elapsed btwn her going forward and him leaving to
allow for further preparations he may have made. We dont know
what his final configuration was.

Tests for stress in the bills were incomplete-inconclusive but
showed no signs of obvious stress, apparently, whereas the
placard showed obvious signs of stress for some reason.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.


And again - speaking as an experienced jumper, one who has some time on the type of equipment relevant to the discussion...

IMO the 'odds' of surviving the jump are much greater than the 50-50 someone mentioned above.

That gear was way over designed as far as the technical ability to handle that application.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to put one on...anybody with any kind of aptitude at all could watch an episode of 'Ripcord' and figure it out.

'All' Cooper really had to do was grab the shiny handle and pull - regardless of the other factors, chances are in his favor a 'good' landable parachute would appear above him.

Yes there is of course that chance some unforeseen obstacle could have caused injury or death upon landing...but AS a skydiver, I always look down and mentally calculate the areas of concern if presented with an 'off landing' (unplanned area to set down) - and prioritize them regarding degree of danger.

Things like ~ there's a lake, there's a highway, there are a set of power lines...while I'm not saying Cooper did anything like that, trust me when I say that while over the 'toolies' the areas of 'real' concern below you, are like about 2% of the possible sites available.

Even if unconscious on an unsteerable round parachute...the odds are in your favor you'll survive.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

airtwardo

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

[airtwardo 7]

georger

***

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Joachim77 0]

I meant landed on the ground opposed to land in a river/lake.

[Robert99 50]

airtwardo

******

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple.

Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war.

[airtwardo 7]

georger

***
I'm posting this to explain how fast a spin in freefall or under our modern smaller canopies can happen and render you unconscious...which is related to Cooper jumping with an asymmetrical load/the money bag.

This phenomenon exists with tandem jumping...known as the side spin...when the passenger goes fetal with arms and legs out...think touching your toes.

This also happens under a small spinning canopy. here is a first hand experience that"s a bit long but explains how fast this can render a person unconscious.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4520694#4520694

This jumper was really lucky to not have died...there have been numerous fatalities from this spin/blackout phenomenon.

If Cooper had an asymmetrical load fastened to him that he couldn't jettison in a spin he would be unconscious in about 4-6 seconds...that's a guess based on tandem side spin videos I remember having to watch to become a Tandem Instructor.

I think the money find in the Columbia river points in that direction.

This of course is my opinion based how it was said he fastened the money bag.YMMV

hangdiver

admittedly the initial shock forces are great, however Tina only
saw C beginning to tie the bag around his waste. More than
enough time elapsed btwn her going forward and him leaving to
allow for further preparations he may have made. We dont know
what his final configuration was.

Tests for stress in the bills were incomplete-inconclusive but
showed no signs of obvious stress, apparently, whereas the
placard showed obvious signs of stress for some reason.


Define stress.

Just blue skying here...but wouldn't the placard have been attached to the airframe and 'ripped' from said attachment by the wind?

If the money were lost on exit or opening...for the sake of discussion lets say the bag ripped open - how much damage or stress would be present if the bundled bills were falling independent of the bag?

Would it be possible for a few of those bundled stacks, rubber banded together...to stay in that configuration until mpact?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

airtwardo

******

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

Air, that's why I posted the photo. It's a classic. It's a part of a
lot of people's family history, in my parent's generation. One of
my uncles knew this guy too. Walked right up this same street
with his unit and took a leak on the corner of that very church.
I grew up listening to these first hand accounts.

That event and others like it have been depicted in several old
(B&W) movies. One weekend we were all bundled in the family
room late one night after a family dinner, watching one of these
old movies on tv, and this event in the photo was being act out
and my uncle ________'s wife blurted out, "_______, weren't
you there when that happened?". My uncle laughed and said.
"Yea I walked up that street with that guy hanging there ...
they had a helluva time getting him down! Later I walked by
there again and took a leak on the corner of that church".

I was just a kid, bundled up with one of my cousins under a
blanket on the floor. But I took every word in the adults were
saying. I kept looking at my uncle and back over at the tv ...
in awe of the whole thing ... so the photo (the event) has been
a part of a lot of people's actual history ... and reading your
post the photo came back into my mind, so I looked it up on
Google ... and there it is! The real McCoy!

Maybe Cooper saw the same movie growing up .... or was there
too? That's a deep thought!

Thanks for commenting about this! Its a small world sometimes.

BTW, that uncle of mine is still alive - lives in Texas. He is the
sole surviving brother of those brothers in my family that served
in WWII, one of them is buried in Belgium ... but Glenn is up in
the 90s. Maybe I will give him a call tonight.

amazing ... thanks!

now I will be thinking about this all day!

My wife's father died last year but he went all the way from
D-Day through to Berlin with Paton. He was in artillery. Originally
from Illinois also. He was a brilliant statistician. Became one of
the founders of many test batteries people take today ...

These guys were amazing.

[airtwardo 7]

Robert99

*********

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple.

Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war.


If memory serves he was 101st...an extremely funny man of smaller stature, he was always the center of attention when he'd show up at the DZ.

Try as we might, we could never convince him to make another jump!

I think he enjoyed telling the story as much as we enjoyed hearing it...you could tell by the tone, manner & rhythm... he had told it many MANY times.

Always lightening up the 'mood' of the no doubt terrifying event with self-deprecating humor made it that much more interesting.

He joked that it really didn't surprise him getting stuck like that...his nature was to always get stuck with the short end of the stick.

He then told of several funny experiences he had during the war which certainly made it seem like he was squarely in Murphy's sights.

I STILL remember him sayin' ~
"It could be raining tits on the whole 1st army...I'd take off my hat & get a dick in the ear!"

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

airtwardo

************

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple.

Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war.


If memory serves he was 101st...an extremely funny man of smaller stature, he was always the center of attention when he'd show up at the DZ.

Try as we might, we could never convince him to make another jump!

I think he enjoyed telling the story as much as we enjoyed hearing it...you could tell by the tone, manner & rhythm... he had told it many MANY times.

Always lightening up the 'mood' of the no doubt terrifying event with self-deprecating humor made it that much more interesting.

He joked that it really didn't surprise him getting stuck like that...his nature was to always get stuck with the short end of the stick.

He then told of several funny experiences he had during the war which certainly made it seem like he was squarely in Murphy's sights.

I STILL remember him sayin' ~
"It could be raining tits on the whole 1st army...I'd take off my hat & get a dick in the ear!"

No, incidents like his were not uncommon ... and under fire the
whole time. My uncle said that guy survived because he just
hung there and didn't make a move ... the german's thought he
was dead. And they (our troops) moved as quickly as possible
to lay down fire and secure the immediate area, cleared
buildings out of snipers etc ... an intense fire fight .. imagine
hanging there through that whole thing!

I will call Glenn tonight! Again, Im going to be thinking about
this all day now until I talk to Glenn tonight ... Im going to
break off from this... thank you, sir!

[georger 244]

airtwardo

************

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple.

Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war.


If memory serves he was 101st...an extremely funny man of smaller stature, he was always the center of attention when he'd show up at the DZ.

Try as we might, we could never convince him to make another jump!

I think he enjoyed telling the story as much as we enjoyed hearing it...you could tell by the tone, manner & rhythm... he had told it many MANY times.

Always lightening up the 'mood' of the no doubt terrifying event with self-deprecating humor made it that much more interesting.

He joked that it really didn't surprise him getting stuck like that...his nature was to always get stuck with the short end of the stick.

He then told of several funny experiences he had during the war which certainly made it seem like he was squarely in Murphy's sights.

I STILL remember him sayin' ~
"It could be raining tits on the whole 1st army...I'd take off my hat & get a dick in the ear!"

Air... do you know if the guy in the photo is still alive ? ...
before I call my uncle tonight. I would like to tell him if you
know? My uncle will be amazed that we are talking about
this!

Let me know if you know if the guy is alive or not ...

[airtwardo 7]

georger

***************

Quote

I have a theory: If he landed on the ground...

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground.

well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the
Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo
(money) bag around his waste!

Hey I knew that guy!

I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull.

I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale.

Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy!

A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years.

I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple.

Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war.


If memory serves he was 101st...an extremely funny man of smaller stature, he was always the center of attention when he'd show up at the DZ.

Try as we might, we could never convince him to make another jump!

I think he enjoyed telling the story as much as we enjoyed hearing it...you could tell by the tone, manner & rhythm... he had told it many MANY times.

Always lightening up the 'mood' of the no doubt terrifying event with self-deprecating humor made it that much more interesting.

He joked that it really didn't surprise him getting stuck like that...his nature was to always get stuck with the short end of the stick.

He then told of several funny experiences he had during the war which certainly made it seem like he was squarely in Murphy's sights.

I STILL remember him sayin' ~
"It could be raining tits on the whole 1st army...I'd take off my hat & get a dick in the ear!"

Air... do you know if the guy in the photo is still alive ? ...
before I call my uncle tonight. I would like to tell him if you
know? My uncle will be amazed that we are talking about
this!

Let me know if you know if the guy is alive or not ...


My understanding is that he passed away maybe 5 years back or so...

I did look on the net back when we were touring battlefields and seem to remember reading of his passing in a googled magazine article....can't seem to find it now though.

Please give my regards & respect to your Uncle, I'm sure he'll enjoy hearing from you & recalling the memory!



EDIT~

WOW...found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Steele_(paratrooper)

The time frame I'm referring to was '77 through about '79...THAT does not jibe at all with John Steel passing in '69!

I think I may have bought a BUNCH of beer for a bullshit artist!



LOL...wouldn't be the first time.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~